James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

It says we are made righteous through Christ's blood. It's an ongoing process.

amen

He who began a good work will complete it (not might)

By one offering he has perfected forever those being sanctified.

 

[mailmandan]

Danthemailman, you admit genuine faith has works in your quote above.

Now you teach genuine faith has no works in the quote below,

Now you contradict yourself and teach the opposite that genuine faith has no works.

You cannot have it both ways Danthemailman.
This is double talk.

Again, there is no contradiction or double talk on my part. You just don’t get it and there is a reason for that.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

It does not get any clearer than this. Are you still confused?

 

[Titus]

James asks the question if faith alone without works of obedience can save us? James 2:14.

That does not negate the fact we are saved by faith (not works) but faith is never alone

Another contradiction.

Saved by faith without works(obedience) you said.
But then you say "but faith is never alone" (without works).

Your definition of saving faith contradicts itself Sir.

If true saving faith is never alone as you admitted.
Then we cannot also be saved by a faith that has no obedience or belief only as James taught,
James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience) and NOT by faith only(faith with no works).

You teach the definition of true trusting faith has works.
Then you contradict your definition of true trusting faith by saying it has no works.

This is double talk.

James does not contradict his definition of true saving Biblical faith.

James teaches faith that saves always obeys God.
James explains faith without works(faith alone) is dead!
As dead as a corpse with no soul,
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

For anyone to claim we are saved by a faith with no works.
Is to claim we are saved by a dead faith according to James!

A dead faith can save no one.

True genuine trusting saving faith, has works of obedience according to James,
James 2:24.

James teaches the only kind of faith that justifies is a living working faith.
Faith alone ie faith without works is a dead faith that cannot justify according to James.

For our faith to save us. We must be justified by or obedient works, James 2:24.
Only God justifies us. No one can be saved before we are justified.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience to Gods commandments) and not by faith only(faith with no obedience to God).

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Conclusion: James and Paul taught God justifies us when our faith is not without obedience (dead faith)
But when we have a living, obedient faith( faith that obeys God ), James 2:24.

This is true, trusting, living faith before and after salvation.
No double talk.
There is only one acceptable faith that saves.
It is not faith alone(dead faith)
But a living working obedient faith, James 2:24 ;
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
1Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and My sister and mother.

True saving faith is never without obedience(dead faith), James 2:19
True saving faith is a faith that obeys God, Galatians 5:6 ; James 2:24 ; Matthew 12:50

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

James asks the question if fait

Another contradiction.

Saved by faith without works(obedience) you said.
But then you say "but faith is never alone" (without works).

Your definition of saving faith contradicts itself Sir.

The idea some have that salvation is by grace ALONE and by faith ALONE has always been logically contradictory, unbiblical.

The word 'alone' is an exclusionary word, therefore if salvation were by grace ALONE then that excludes everything else from salvation, it would even exclude faith.

On the other hand if salvation were by faith ALONE then that excludes everything else, it would exclude both grace and obedient works.

Therefore faith cannot be at the same time ALONE and NOT ALONE...it either includes obedience or it doesn't. As you point out, it's not logical to say faith ALONE WITHOUT works saves yet FAITH is NEVER ALONE. It's like saying I can be in a room alone by myself (no works) yet still have other people in the room with me (have works) at the same time.

Strange that faith onlyist cannot, will not understand that obedience to God is never said in the Bible to be a work of merit.

 

[mailmandan]

That does not negate the fact we are saved by faith (not works) but faith is never alone

Works-salvationists just don’t get it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James asks the question if faith alone without works of obedience can save us? James 2:14.

Another contradiction.

Saved by faith without works(obedience) you said.
But then you say "but faith is never alone" (without works).

Your definition of saving faith contradicts itself Sir.

No sir. it does not contradict. Only in your mind

We are saved at a point of time. That is the time we are...

1. Adopted as sons and daughters
2. Made alive we who were dead in trespasses and sins
3. Justified - declared righteous through the same imputed righteousness which abraham recieved, because he believed God. and not because of his works
4. Perfected forever
5. Born again
6. Have been given eternal life
7. Have been given every spiritual blessing (eph 1)
8. Given the seal of the spirit, as a pledge

All of the above is the work of God. Not by our works. And all of the above is based solely on Grace. for we have been ( a completed action) saved by GRACE through the means of faith. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

AFTER we are made into this new creature. as Paul said. Good works will follow

They are not the means of salvation. They are proof that a man HAS BEEN SAVED.

I am not going to respond to the rest of your post. Because if we do not have the foundation set in stone. And you continue to say I am contradicting myself when I am not. then nothing else you say has any bearing, because it is all based on faulty information and a faulty understanding of what I believe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Works-salvationists just don’t get it.

No, and they will not get it.

Titus is also another who believes the work of water baptism performed by man is required to be born again and justified.

so like his buddy sea-puppy here. They will only see what they want to see

 

[Keiw]

We cannot be saved without works. The works of Jesus Christ save us,
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest Me to do.
Jesus saves us by the work on the cross.
We are saved by Gods works.

Jesus clearly teaches--Matt 7:21-- Those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom( be saved)-- That will is-Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God. Learning and applying every utterance. Not so easy in a satan ruled system. Jesus said FEW will find the road. Thinking as you do is not that road.

 

[atpollard]

Yes. God's righteousness is built upon man's righteousness. God will never build on unrighteousness. Human righteousness is like a ground floor, and God's righteousness is like the second floor...or "upper room" built upon it. So then holiness is built upon righteousness.

To suggest building on the Foundation of Man with a structure of God is to build a castle of stone upon the sand.
GOD THE SON is the IMMOVABLE BEDROCK upon which His Church (us) is built.

 

[Keiw]

So you skip over Hebrews 10:30 as if it does not exist abut how God will have vengeance on His people that willfully sin?

Matthew 7:21-23 is about saved believers that went astray and He denied them because they were workers of iniquity. What difference does it make? Any iniquity is a work that denies Him; Titus 1:16, and so you do not need to verbally deny Him to be denied by Him 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT even former believers that deny Him, He still abides in them meaning they are still saved even though denied by Him in getting left behind.2 Timothy 2:13

Look at Paul's example of a former believer and yet nevertheless that foundation is assured as the seal of adoption is for why we are to call even former believers to depart from iniquity so they too can be accepted by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House rather than be denied by Him in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House 2 Timothy 2:18-21

Ephesians 1:4--one must be holy without blemish= wash our robes white.

 

[Titus]

No, and they will not get it.

Titus is also another who believes the work of water baptism performed by man is required to be born again and justified.

so like his buddy sea-puppy here. They will only see what they want to see

Titus is also another who believes the work of water baptism performed by man is required to be born again and justified.

You intentionally misrepresent me. You tell others I believe mans works save.
I do not believe what you accuse me of believing.

I believe Jesus and what He taught in His gospel saves, Mark 16:15-16.

I know that Gods work save us.
His works of salvation as one being baptism doth also now save us, 1Peter 3:20-21.

God works His power in baptism,
Colossians 2:12
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

You can claim water immersion is a work of man.
Paul and the Holy Spirit taught water immersion is a work of God, Colossians 2:12 ; Mark 16:15-16.
We are saved by Gods work,
John 17:4
I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

 

[Episkopos]

To suggest building on the Foundation of Man with a structure of God is to build a castle of stone upon the sand.
GOD THE SON is the IMMOVABLE BEDROCK upon which His Church (us) is built.

We build on God...and God builds on us. God does not build on Himself. If God didn't build on us...then the building would be apart from us.

You are mixing metaphors and confusing the issue. The foundation is Christ but the location of that foundation is in us. We are the ground that the foundation is laid in. Again if the foundation of Christ remains in the ground of Christ...then we are left untouched. We are totally out of the picture. You have to place that foundation somewhere. Ask a contractor to build a foundation but forget to tell him where..on what ground he is supposed to build it on? Get back to me on it.

Actually the right metaphor/parable for what I'm saying is the parable of the sower..where the seed remains the same...but the ground it is sown in differs greatly. THAT is how our own righteousness is evaluated...by the kind of ground God is trying to lay His foundation down in. We are to receive with humility (righteously) the implanted word...or else nothing grows. WE are responsible when there is no fruit being produced...not God.

The parable you used actually confirms what I'm saying. When we build on the rock we build righteously through obedience and DOING righteousness. The sand is in neglecting to DO what Jesus commands.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You intentionally misrepresent me. You tell others I believe mans works save.
I do not believe what you accuse me of believing.

I believe Jesus and what He taught in His gospel saves, Mark 16:15-16.

I know that Gods work save us.
His works of salvation as one being baptism doth also now save us, 1Peter 3:20-21.

God works His power in baptism,
Colossians 2:12
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

You can claim water immersion is a work of man.
Paul and the Holy Spirit taught water immersion is a work of God, Colossians 2:12 ; Mark 16:15-16.
We are saved by Gods work,
John 17:4
I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

so. lets get this out in the open.

Do you believe water baptism is required for salvation?

Or do you believe water baptism is one of many commands of God we do after we are saved?

ps. Col 2 gives us all the answer. IN THE WORKING OF GOD.

Its not the work of a sinner. baptizing you in water

Its the act of God baptizing us into Christ in the circumcision done without the hands of men.

 

[Titus]

Works-salvationists just don’t get it.

Your statement, "works salvationists just don't get it".
Is also a misrepresentation of my beliefs.
I do not believe I save myself apart from Gods grace.

It is not mans works that save, Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches this as a Biblical fact.
It is the works of God that do save us,
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

I am not a works of mans merit salvationist as you falsely accuse me, Danthemailman.

You are full of contradictions, Danthemailman.

You teach no obedience to any of Gods commandments are required to be saved ie belief alone.
Then you taught me a while back that you must obey the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved,
1John 3:23-24
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment.

Danthemailman, that is double talk.
You are not convincing. Your doctrine is full of logical fallacies and contradictions.

 

[Christ4Me]

Ephesians 1:4--one must be holy without blemish= wash our robes white.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[mailmandan]

Your statement, "works salvationists just don't get it".
Is also a misrepresentation of my beliefs.
I do not believe I save myself apart from Gods grace.

It is not mans works that save, Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches this as a Biblical fact.
It is the works of God that do save us,
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

I am not a works of mans merit salvationist as you falsely accuse me, Danthemailman.

You are full of contradictions, Danthemailman.

You teach no obedience to any of Gods commandments are required to be saved ie belief alone.
Then you taught me a while back that you must obey the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved,
1John 3:23-24
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment.

Danthemailman, that is double talk.
You are not convincing. Your doctrine is full of logical fallacies and contradictions.

Actually, it’s your doctrine that is full of fallacies, contradictions and double talk. You clearly teach salvation by faith “and works” no matter how much you try and sugarcoat it. You are not fooling me or any other of my brothers and sisters in Christ on this forum.

 

[Titus]

so. lets get this out in the open.

Do you believe water baptism is required for salvation?

Or do you believe water baptism is one of many commands of God we do after we are saved?

ps. Col 2 gives us all the answer. IN THE WORKING OF GOD.

Its not the work of a sinner. baptizing you in water

Its the act of God baptizing us into Christ in the circumcision done without the hands of men.

How does God save us in baptism?

Does His gospel teach it is done directly by God?
Or does God command men to baptize men in order for God to work His saving power on us in baptism?

You teach man plays no part in this baptism to be saved.

Why did Jesus teach that men are to do the baptizing in His gospel if you are correct?

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Without a doubt Jesus commands men to baptize men in His gospel!
To say otherwise as you are doing is to disagree with Jesus!

Colossians 2:12 is the Greek work, baptizo, water.
Therefore God works His power on us in water immersion.

Just as Jesus commands in His gospel,
Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:19 ; Colossians 2:12

Paul himself said his sins were washed away in water immersion when he was taught Jesus' gospel by the preacher Ananias in Acts 22:16,
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized(baptizo) and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

No, and they will not get it.

Titus is also another who believes the work of water baptism performed by man is required to be born again and justified.

so like his buddy sea-puppy here. They will only see what they want to see

Actually my argument is not needed at all for faith onlyists kill their own argument be falsely defining obedience as a work of merit so they can then attack that false definition. Luther's false dichotomy that salvation is by faith alone OR by works of merit is just that... FALSE for it falsely defines obedience to God as a work of merit.

So the faith onlyists' arguments have no Biblical basis but are not even couched in logic.

 

[Titus]

Actually, it’s your doctrine that is full of fallacies, contradictions and double talk. You clearly teach salvation by faith “and works” no matter how much you try and sugarcoat it. You are not fooling me or any other of my brothers and sisters in Christ on this forum.

What?
Yes I teach salvation in Jesus' gospel is never by faith only and no obedience.
I have never hidden what I believe.
You twist what I teach into works of mens merit and belief save.

Jesus taught we are saved by an obedient faith never faith without obedience.

Matthew 28:19-20
Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of this age. Amen.

I have sugar coated nothing.
I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, Romans 1:16.

 

[mailmandan]

What?
Yes I teach salvation in Jesus' gospel is never by faith only and no obedience.
I have never hidden what I believe.
You twist what I teach into works of mens merit and belief save.

Jesus taught we are saved by an obedient faith never faith without obedience.

Matthew 28:19-20
Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of this age. Amen.

I have sugar coated nothing.
I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, Romans 1:16.

You still don’t get it. The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.

*To “believe” the gospel is the trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16)

The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

You teach a “different” gospel of salvation by faith “and works.”