James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Titus]

An empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains “alone” (barren of works) is not genuine faith. (James 2:14-18)

Not to be confused with genuine faith that trusts in Christ “alone” for salvation and results in producing good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

You just said it again. A faith that is "(barren of works)" is not genuine faith according to you.

Then you contradict your first definition of true saving faith by saying,
"Not to be confused with genuine faith that trusts in Christ alone".

You cannot have it both ways Danthemailman.

Genuine faith as you said has works.

Then you say saving faith(genuine) is trust only in Jesus and no works.

You contradict your first definition of genuine faith by first saying with works then saying genuine faith is without works.

 

[Keiw]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

They are still His people.

Jesus shows this will be their judgement, Matt 7:22-23--They think they are his people.

 

[Titus]

Jesus saves, not works.

Listen, if your works could save you......if trying to be good and not bad, could save you, then why did Christ have to die for you?

ITs because only Jesus saves, and your works are not a part.
God only accepts what Christ did for you, to save you, and keep you saved.

Jesus saves, not works.

We cannot be saved without works. The works of Jesus Christ save us,
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest Me to do.
Jesus saves us by the work on the cross.
We are saved by Gods works.

 

[Behold]

The Old Testament is about righteousness and the New Testament COVERS that righteousness (not replaces it) with the righteousness of God.

Christ on the Cross is the Righteousness of God.
So this is a NEW Covenant, which has replace the old one.

 

[marks]

Genuine faith as you said has works.

Then you say saving faith(genuine) is trust only in Jesus and no works.

This seems clear to me. Saving faith produces works, but isn't those works. It's what leads to those works.

Nor do works produce salvation, only through faith are we saved. Reliance on works is being fallen from grace, standing in grace is trusting in Jesus in the same way as we are saved.

Much love!

 

[Titus]

This seems clear to me. Saving faith produces works, but isn't those works. It's what leads to those works.

Nor do works produce salvation, only through faith are we saved. Reliance on works is being fallen from grace, standing in grace is trusting in Jesus in the same way as we are saved.

Much love!

Trusting in Jesus is trusting what He taught is true, Mark 16:15-16.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that Heareth My WORD and believeth on Him who sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life.

Saving faith is a living working, trusting faith.
Trust in what? In What Jesus taught saves us.
Trust is not just in that Christ is God and that He rose from the dead.
Not only that He has the power to save us without our help.
Trusting faith is believing in Him and all he did AND SAID!

He taught if we will do as He commands He will save us, Mark 16:15-16.
If you do not believe in what Jesus taught saves, Mark 16:15-16.
Then you lack faith. You have unbelief.

Obedience to Gods commandments are an essential requirement to be saved.

You have to obey Gods commandments to be saved,
1John 3:23-24
And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

To say we are saved without works, James 2:24.
Is to say we do not have to obey the commandment to have faith in Christ, 1John 3:23-24.
John 6:28-29.

We must do His commandments to be saved, 1John 3:23-24

 

[Abigail]

It says we are made righteous through Christ's blood. It's an ongoing process.

 

[farouk]

It says we are made righteous through Christ's blood. It's an ongoing process.

@Abigail
We are reckoned righteous by faith (Romans 5.1); and this is complete for all believers because of what the sinless Lord Jesus did at the Cross for sinner; but we are sanctified both positionally and in our condition day by day as an ongoing, pilgrim experience, growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3.18).

 

[Episkopos]

The "filthy rags" is referring to "our righteousness". This is your offering to God. It is not Paul's offering, he counts it dung.

Again, there was a time God overlooked sin, but now commands men everywhere to repent. Why the difference? That's something to consider.

Much love!

You are confusing sin and righteousness. Righteousness is a good thing. Imagine the level of error it takes to make good bad and bad good. Now consider how you have been indoctrinated to ignore the majority of scripture because of a few misapplied proof texts that sound right in a bad context.

You would have to do a non biased study on righteousness. You will find only a very few verses that condemn human righteousness...and that is because it is being trusted in as something that covers a person...which it does not.

 

[mailmandan]

You just said it again. A faith that is "(barren of works)" is not genuine faith according to you.

Then you contradict your first definition of true saving faith by saying,
"Not to be confused with genuine faith that trusts in Christ alone".

You cannot have it both ways Danthemailman.

Genuine faith as you said has works.

Then you say saving faith(genuine) is trust only in Jesus and no works.

You contradict your first definition of genuine faith by first saying with works then saying genuine faith is without works.

There is no contradiction on my part and I already properly harmonized scripture with scripture in posts #21, #24, #28, and #33 but you just don’t understand.

 

[Christ4Me]

Jesus shows this will be their judgement, Matt 7:22-23--They think they are his people.

So you skip over Hebrews 10:30 as if it does not exist abut how God will have vengeance on His people that willfully sin?

Matthew 7:21-23 is about saved believers that went astray and He denied them because they were workers of iniquity. What difference does it make? Any iniquity is a work that denies Him; Titus 1:16, and so you do not need to verbally deny Him to be denied by Him 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT even former believers that deny Him, He still abides in them meaning they are still saved even though denied by Him in getting left behind.2 Timothy 2:13

Look at Paul's example of a former believer and yet nevertheless that foundation is assured as the seal of adoption is for why we are to call even former believers to depart from iniquity so they too can be accepted by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House rather than be denied by Him in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House 2 Timothy 2:18-21

 

[Curtis]

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James was written to already saved, Christian jews who had faith in Jesus Christ:

Jas 2:1 My dear brothers and sisters, fellow believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ—how could we say that we have faith in him and yet we favor one group of people above another? TPT

Jas 2:1 My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. ESV

Jas 2:1 My brothers, do not let your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus, the Messiah, be tainted by favoritism. ISV

It’s helpful to read all of the Bible, not just parts of it.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Friend, I have not been able to get access to this website since last saturday.
Finally one hour ago I was able to log on to christianity boards.com.
Have you had any difficulty with this website recently?

Yes, I wasn't able to access it Monday.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Since faith only with no obedience is not genuine Biblical faith it cannot be true saving faith!

Yes,
The present tense verbs of James 2:14 shows as long as one continues on not having obedient works then one continues on not having that type of faith that saves. 1 John 3:10 as long as one continues on not obeying/not doing righteousness then one continues on not being of God. Therefore one must first obey before one can have that type of faith that saves and be of God. The language/grammar does not allow for one to first be saved by faith alone then afterwards obey.

 

[Titus]

There is no contradiction on my part and I already properly harmonized scripture with scripture in posts #21,24,28,33 but you just don’t understand.

Your definition of saving faith is full of contradictions.
Just as you have taught me before that salvation has zero obedience to Gods commandments to be saved.
Then you contradicted yourself and said to be saved we must obey the commandment to believe in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24.

You contradict yourself alot Danthemailman.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 4:5-6;; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Amen brother.

We must also take into account the audience. And context of what is being said!

 

[Titus]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims to have faith but he has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith,

Danthemailman, you admit genuine faith has works in your quote above.

Now you teach genuine faith has no works in the quote below,

Not to be confused with genuine faith that trusts in Christ “alone” for salvation and results in producing good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Now you contradict yourself and teach the opposite that genuine faith has no works.

You cannot have it both ways Danthemailman.
This is double talk.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just as I suspected. You teeth salvation by faith “and works” in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Scripture does not agree with your spin that we are saved by “these” works and just not “those” works.

Strange that they can not understand, if your working to merit something (as Paul said in Romans 4) you are replacing grace with works. romans 4: 4 and 11: 6.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Strange, you already admitted faith alone is not genuine faith,

That does not negate the fact we are saved by faith (not works) but faith is never alone

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your definition of saving faith is full of contradictions.
Just as you have taught me before that salvation has zero obedience to Gods commandments to be saved.
Then you contradicted yourself and said to be saved we must obey the commandment to believe in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24.

You contradict yourself alot Danthemailman.

Sir,

You are not listening or understanding my brother MMD at all.

Try for once to listen.

He is not doing what you are presenting.