Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?

[Jim B]

Where is Jesus called "God the Son?" Where is the holy spirit called, "God the holy spirit?" And while you're at it, what's the holy spirit's name anyway?

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."
John 17:11, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one."
John 17:21b, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
John 16:13-15, "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all one. Period.

 

[stormymonday]

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."
John 17:11, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one."
John 17:21b, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
John 16:13-15, "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all one. Period.

Being ONE simply implies they are one the same page - that they think alike and are in agreement - that they have the same goals, desires, and purposes. One supports the other.

It does NOT imply that they are "the same person" or co-equal in knowledge, power and authority.

 

[Dropship]

Most people won't disclose their rejection of Trinity but that's changing. A new survey has disclosed that 43% of Evangelicals no longer believe Jesus is God. I never have!

Yes, I can't understand why some people attach so much importance to the Trinity thing, as it's quite clear to me that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are each separate entities..
As for the idea that "Jesus is God", I personally think it's disrespectful towards God for some people to suggest he worked in a carpenter's shop making tables and chairs..

 

[Dropship]

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one." ,,

Yes, but only insofar as they both had the holy spirit within them.
Likewise, an Elvis impersonator has the spirit of rock n' roll in him, but that doesn't mean he IS Elvis..

 

[Robert Gwin]

Even God himself said- "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
So if anybody doesn't believe Jesus was his son, they're prime candidates for-

View attachment 27892

Amen Drop! Listen and obey is the key to staying off that step sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."
John 17:11, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one."
John 17:21b, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
John 16:13-15, "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all one. Period.

Jim, no disrespect sir, but you explaned the oneness yourself by posting verse 11. How are the apostles one, and are they one with Jehovah and Jesus. What is that oneness they are all a part of?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus says ‘leave the judgment to God’ humorously. The punchline is God is Unconditional & infinite and there isn’t anyone or anything to judge.

Exactly. It’s like you’re talking about Disney World never having been. It’s very obvious to Disney World.

‘Scripture’ is a personal belief. Infinite can not know finite.

‘Facts’ are actually beliefs. No one’s ever actually seen one.

Quit posting things you posted as being from me sir. Quoting what I say is fine, but taking what you said and posting them as me saying them I will not tolerate and will report you next time.

 

[Dropship]

Goodbye....every one of you for deleting my post.​

Steady on, only the forum bosses can delete posts, it's nothing to do with us ordinary members..

 

[Jim B]

Jim, no disrespect sir, but you explaned the oneness yourself by posting verse 11. How are the apostles one, and are they one with Jehovah and Jesus. What is that oneness they are all a part of?

Being ONE simply implies they are one the same page - that they think alike and are in agreement - that they have the same goals, desires, and purposes. One supports the other.

It does NOT imply that they are "the same person" or co-equal in knowledge, power and authority.

John 17:11-13, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost,[c] so that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves."

In context, when Jesus says "that they may be one, as we are one", He is clearly talking about himself and His father, not His disciples. Being ONE simply states that they are one. It doesn't "imply" anything.

 

[stormymonday]

John 17:11-13, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost,[c] so that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves."

In context, when Jesus says "that they may be one, as we are one", He is clearly talking about himself and His father, not His disciples. Being ONE simply states that they are one. It doesn't "imply" anything.

It doesn't imply anything? What do you think Jesus was implying when he said, "The Father is Greater?"

What was he implying when he said, "he can't do anything on his own?"

What was he implying when he said, "he doesn't know the day or hour of his return?"

Being ONE doesn't INFER three persons make up one God.

 

[-Phil]

Quit posting things you posted as being from me sir. Quoting what I say is fine, but taking what you said and posting them as me saying them I will not tolerate and will report you next time.

I just pushed “reply”. That was what you said. See for yourself…
Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?

 

[Jim B]

It doesn't imply anything? What do you think Jesus was implying when he said, "The Father is Greater?"

What was he implying when he said, "he can't do anything on his own?"

What was he implying when he said, "he doesn't know the day or hour of his return?"

Being ONE doesn't INFER three persons make up one God.

According to you.

John 17:11-13, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost,[c] so that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves."

 

[stormymonday]

According to you.

John 17:11-13, "And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost,[c] so that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves."

Again, being ONE does NOT imply a co-equal Trinity. In the secular world it's called 'solidarity'. It simply infers that they harmonize and function together. They are on the same page - they think and feel alike, their principles are the same - that they are in one accord - that their purpose is the same - that they are in agreement, etc.

Most Trinitarians know this, but many continue to use it as one of their endorsements.

 

[stormymonday]

What you need to see is that in John 17 Jesus prays for unity over and over again. You quoted verse 11-13. Those verses simply compare Jesus' unity with the Father with that of his disciples. The passage has NOTHING to do with divine attributes of co-equality but all to do with unity among the brethren.

 

[Jim B]

Again, being ONE does NOT imply a co-equal Trinity. In the secular world it's called 'solidarity'. It simply infers that they harmonize and function together. They are on the same page - they think and feel alike, their principles are the same - that they are in one accord - that their purpose is the same - that they are in agreement, etc.

Most Trinitarians know this, but many continue to use it as one of their endorsements.

That is simply your opinion and, IMHO, you're wrong.

 

[Jim B]

What you need to see is that in John 17 Jesus prays for unity over and over again. You quoted verse 11-13. Those verses simply compare Jesus' unity with the Father with that of his disciples. The passage has NOTHING to do with divine attributes of co-equality but all to do with unity among the brethren.

That also is simply your opinion and, IMHO, you're wrong again..

 

[stormymonday]

That is simply your opinion and, IMHO, you're wrong.

Opinion is heresy - a choice. That's why we are all heretics.

The word ONE in John 17 is singular. The entire chapter has 7 instances where Jesus prays for his disciple's. A unified brethren was a big concern of his. Jesus compared how he and the Father were ONE - and on the same page - as well as his disciples being unified as one. And you're going to tell me being ONE infers a co-equal Trinity?

However, it didn't quite work out that way since the body of Christ is a dismembered and divided one. What happened?

 

[Jim B]

Opinion is heresy - a choice. That's why we are all heretics.

The word ONE in John 17 is singular. The entire chapter has 7 instances where Jesus prays for his disciple's. A unified brethren was a big concern of his. Jesus compared how he and the Father were ONE - and on the same page - as well as his disciples being unified as one. And you're going to tell me being ONE infers a co-equal Trinity?

However, it didn't quite work out that way since the body of Christ is a dismembered and divided one. What happened?

And you're going to tell me being ONE infers a co-equal Trinity? exactly!

 

[stormymonday]

And you're going to tell me being ONE infers a co-equal Trinity? exactly!

"The greatest impediment Christians have obtaining truth is when they think they already have it."

Christianity's two most contentious doctrines are Trinity and pre-trib. Why? Because they are the most contradictory.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus is the Son of God no one is denying this that says Jesus is God incarnate.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

When did God shed his blood to purchase the church of God If Jesus was not God?

That is excellent! I’ve never yet heard anyone use that verse in the debate. Very strong!