Jesse Duplantis's Trip to Heaven!! Who would call him a liar?
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
This is not a reply to any specific post, just a thought/observation.Does it really matter if someone preaches Christ for profit? When I read Phil 1:15-18, I see it differently now...
What do you consider, "for profit?" Is a 24/7 available preaching man being offered a living wage what you would call, "profit?"
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I am simply saying that some preach for profit alone (and quite huge sums at that) and some do not...Pauls reply to this issue is that so long as Christ is preached...
I see. But, is Christ "really" being preached if we are just getting a relatively small amount of possibly accurately, or inaccurately, read Bible spoken from the front of the room, while the underlying intent is truly aimed directly at somehow getting us to give more money?
When you consider the massive amount of ink expended in the Bible, addressing our proper understanding of, and attitude about, money, I would take it that our craving for money is probably of paramount importance to Jesus... and to any teaching concerning Him and our relationship to Him.
While I do think that we can get something from the teaching of even the most money-hungry TV evangelists (or Mega-Church Star), I feel that we need to be careful to learn that not all of their speech reflects Jesus..... and to govern ourselves accordingly, making sure to sift and glean the good from their words.
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Why would Satan attack the men who are already working for him? The attacks on those men of Satan are done by true men of God, based on the totally non-Biblical notion that the Gifts are still available. Also, the term born-again has nothing to do with salvation. It was the ticket of admission, being baptized in both water and the Spirit, to the earthly Kingdom of Heaven that Christ preached. Nowhere in John 3 does it mention salvation. Just one of the 100s of things that denominational churches wrongly teach, because they don't obey 2Tim 2:15, right division, and they, therefore, don't believe their Bibles, with no exceptions that I've ever seen.
Helen
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Personally, my bible says :-
1 John 3:17 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? "
The obvious answer is, it doesn't!!
And , those were the last two commandments Jesus left us with!!
To have as many millions $$$$ as these people have, and call themselves "ministers of the Lord." !!!
They are without excuse.
Anyway we cut it, they got rich off the backs of the GOD'S flock !!!
The "prosperity message" has been abused.
All the rubbish of - " sowing your seed to this ministry"...is a CON.
If they believed it, then the so called "Ministers" would sow THEIR seed to the flock and just watch God send in the millions to them.
If they did it that way around maybe I could believe that it worked.
But no, they are hoarding it to themselves...
But all the while it has been 'gimme, gimme, gimme' there ministry is self serving...and anyone who supports them is totally hoodwinked and deceived.
"By their fruit you shall know them"
Luke 3:11 "He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.”
This is the heart of love....not them...and not him.
1 John 3:17 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? "
The obvious answer is, it doesn't!!
And , those were the last two commandments Jesus left us with!!
To have as many millions $$$$ as these people have, and call themselves "ministers of the Lord." !!!
They are without excuse.
Anyway we cut it, they got rich off the backs of the GOD'S flock !!!
The "prosperity message" has been abused.
All the rubbish of - " sowing your seed to this ministry"...is a CON.
If they believed it, then the so called "Ministers" would sow THEIR seed to the flock and just watch God send in the millions to them.
If they did it that way around maybe I could believe that it worked.
But no, they are hoarding it to themselves...
But all the while it has been 'gimme, gimme, gimme' there ministry is self serving...and anyone who supports them is totally hoodwinked and deceived.
"By their fruit you shall know them"
Luke 3:11 "He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.”
This is the heart of love....not them...and not him.
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Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Give your tithes and offerings to your local church (if there is one) .
Hopefully those are the ones that will pray for you and visit you in the hospital.
(I said: Hopefully, because I have a total different experience about that.)
I bought a lot of music CD from JSM, good music.
(And of course that supports them at the same time.)
I'm not sending money, unless I buy something.
Hopefully those are the ones that will pray for you and visit you in the hospital.
(I said: Hopefully, because I have a total different experience about that.)
I bought a lot of music CD from JSM, good music.
(And of course that supports them at the same time.)
I'm not sending money, unless I buy something.
Who told you the lie that any people in the other 59 books go to heaven, itself?
If I only had $1000 to my name, I could offer it to anybody that could give me spiritual proof that anyone ever had a hope of going to heaven (the real heaven - not the sky or clouds), in any book in the Bible, except for Paul's last 7 books, all written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. The New Jerusalem doesn't count because it isn't Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and docks on the New Earth. I'm talking Heaven, itself, where God is.
Actually, no one has ever gone to Heaven, yet, except Christ - Jn 3:13. The bit about people going to Heaven when they die, is an unBiblical lie. Everyone that has ever died, except Christ, is still in hades, the grave.
My money would definitely be safe
They tell me that crow isn't too bad if you soak it in milk before you fry it.
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This is complete nonsense. I would say heretical nonsense.
1. The Bible says that human beings consist of spirits, souls, and bodies. Spirits and souls are immaterial and imperishable. This is clear from the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus, where we see both individuals in Sheol/Hades, but separated by the wide gulf. And ever since the resurrection of Christ, the righteous dead do not go to Hades, but directly to Heaven.
2. The Bible clearly presents all the souls and spirits of both the OT saints and the NT saints in the New Jerusalem (which is in Heaven, and will be in Heaven until the New Heavens and the New Earth are established). See Hebrews 12:22-24 and study it carefully.
3. When Stephen died, his body went into its grave, but his soul and spirit went to Heaven, where Christ is.
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [died]. (Acts 7:59,60)
Since Christ appeared to Stephen, and not just appeared, but STANDING, do you think that Jesus did not receive Stephen's soul and spirit the moment he died? Stephen illustrates the death of every child of God, and there are many other Scriptures which tell us that when we die, we are "present with the Lord" (in Heaven).
So where did you come up with your heretical nonsense? Only the unsaved dead go to Hades.
And Hades is NOT the grave either (even though Sheol is mistakenly translated as "grave" in the KJB). As Christ made it crystal clear, Hades is in the lower parts (or the "heart") of the earth. The grave is no more than 6 ft deep.
Where does is say that a man's soul goes to heaven, when he dies? Where does it say that any human, besides those in Paul's last 7 books, ever had a chance of spending eternity in Heaven. John's Gospel was written late, maybe 20-25 years after Acts ended. At that point, he says that NO ONE had ever gone to Heaven, except Christ.
Jn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The only one spouting heretical nonsense is you. Hades and Sheol are the grave and gehenna was the ever-burning trash pit outside of Jerusalem. Anyone that says these places are hell is a liar. In the original KJV, the words hel and hell were used to mean a covered place, the grave.
Man does not have a soul. Man IS a living soul, made from the dust of the ground ad the breath of life. When either of these is taken from him, he's a dead soul. The Bible says nothing about the soul going to Heaven. How about, "the soul that sinneth it shall die".
Gen 2:7
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
That "absent from the body, present with the Lord" is not what that verse says. That's the way it's presented by the same lying preachers that teach man HAS a soul and that there is a hell where our loving God tortures His creation that doesn't believe in Him, in fire, 24/7, forever, even though His Son died for the sins of the entire world, for everyone that had ever lived.
Lazarus and the Rich Man was a satire by Christ shaming the Pharisees for their stupid beliefs about hell. Nothing in that passage is found elsewhere in scripture. Josephus, a contemporary Pharisee, wrote his, "Discourse on Hades" which was almost identical to that paassage. If you read Lazarus and the Rich Man carefully, you'll find that the only reason the rich man was burning in hell and Lazarus wasn't, was because the rich man had it good while he was alive and Lazarus had suffered. That's what it says. Nothing about sin.
In Paul's 14 books, the word "hell" does not exist, and in
Acts 20:27, Paul said
"For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God."
If Paul told them everything, why didn't he tell them about Hell? The only time he used the word hades, it was correctly translated as "grave", 1Cor 15:55
In other words, nothing you said is scriptural
I need to talk to you about this bridge I have for sale.
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Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Any other satires in the book?
-----------------------------------
The word “hell” appears 54 times in the Holy Bible. Hell is clearly defined in the Bible as a place of torment and burning.
Only a fool who rejects what he reads would say hell is the grave or only separation from God.
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Truth
Well-Known Member
Take the time to read Acts 6 & 7 - Stephen gets to distribute food to the Greek Widows, you know he was just Kitchen Help?
Truth
Well-Known Member
Personally, my bible says :-
1 John 3:17 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? "
The obvious answer is, it doesn't!!
And , those were the last two commandments Jesus left us with!!
To have as many millions $$$$ as these people have, and call themselves "ministers of the Lord." !!!
They are without excuse.
Anyway we cut it, they got rich off the backs of the GOD'S flock !!!
The "prosperity message" has been abused.
All the rubbish of - " sowing your seed to this ministry"...is a CON.
If they believed it, then the so called "Ministers" would sow THEIR seed to the flock and just watch God send in the millions to them.
If they did it that way around maybe I could believe that it worked.
But no, they are hoarding it to themselves...
But all the while it has been 'gimme, gimme, gimme' there ministry is self serving...and anyone who supports them is totally hoodwinked and deceived.
"By their fruit you shall know them"
Luke 3:11 "He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.”
This is the heart of love....not them...and not him.
WELL SAID, DEAD ON, AND THEY DESERVE A GREAT BIG SLAP IN THE FACE!
No harm, No Foul, just Righteous Indignation! Supported by Scripture, SWEEEET
WRONG!! It appears zero times in the original text. It does appear in the original KJV, for grave, since the archaic meaning of"hel" or "hell" was "a dark covered place". Hell, as a place of torture is a pagan concept that was pushed along by the corrupt Catholic church, whose doctrine is about half based on paganism. The word "hell" in our modern Bibles is a mistranslation of 4 totally unrelated words, sheol (the grave), hades (the grave), gehenna (the ever-burning trash pit outside of Jerusalem), and tartarus (the prison for fallen angels). If the words translated hell were translated as to their true meanings, a lot fewer Bibles would be sold. The fake hell is deeply implanted and people LOVE the idea that those less pious than they are will be punished.
Saying that hell exists is a HUGE insult to God.
It's impossible for hell believers to believe this verse. You can't have both.
1John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Wise words, and true! And I especially like the wisdom of the sentence I highlighted.
(Written by a friend of mine)
When someone like myself, or one of the multitudes of other way more qualified professionals out there, dares to question the morality of the eternal conscious torment model of hell, we will be almost immediately jumped on by a multitude of would-be apologists and defenders of the faith, seeking to expose us for the heretics we are. I've often wondered why those who oppose this rather obvious pagan invention, are met with such fierce opposition. I could understand if those who react so harshly were, themselves, convinced of the veracity of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, in which case, their opposition to any such questions or critiques would be, not only warranted, but a moral action. After all, if I or others are, either intentionally or unintentionally, playing a role in the eternal damnation of thousands of unsuspecting individuals, opposing us would be one's moral duty.
This simply cannot be the reason, though, as most who offer the loudest dissent prove by their actions to not be fully convinced of the doctrine themselves. If they truly believed it, they would never cease to preach to those who would otherwise go there. The street corners would be filled, day and night, night and day, with throngs of impassioned Christians, desperately pleading with the world to "turn or burn". But as it is, you're more likely to find a prostitute on a street corner than you are a preacher.
This suggests to me that a majority of those who loudly speak against those who question eternal conscious torment, likely aren't convinced of it themselves. Or, if they are, but remain more or less indifferent to the billions said to be headed in that direction, prove themselves to be utterly depraved, careless, and immoral through their inaction. The burden of believing 9 out of every 10 persons is destined to burn forever is likely a burden too great for anyone to bear. And so we either secretly let go of the belief, while maintaining a facade of belief, or we simply compartmentalize, and only believe part-time. Either way, a total or part-time indifference to the eternal suffering of billions would speak to a corruption of one's morals.
If, by chance, I'm correct, and most Christians don't actually believe in eternal conscious torment themselves (or at least not all the time), why does public critique of it come under such fire? I think it is precisely because it exposes us to our own unspoken disbelief. The critique brings out into the open questions we ourselves have had, but have been terrified to think or ask aloud, and so hearing them expressed by another makes us feel uncovered and vulnerable. We fear the side of us that dares to ask such questions, and so seek to stomp out and destroy that "us" that we see in others.
Whenever you see an exaggerated and irrational anger directed at those who dare to critique certain cherished beliefs, there is likely behind it, a secret, but shameful agreement.
When someone like myself, or one of the multitudes of other way more qualified professionals out there, dares to question the morality of the eternal conscious torment model of hell, we will be almost immediately jumped on by a multitude of would-be apologists and defenders of the faith, seeking to expose us for the heretics we are. I've often wondered why those who oppose this rather obvious pagan invention, are met with such fierce opposition. I could understand if those who react so harshly were, themselves, convinced of the veracity of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, in which case, their opposition to any such questions or critiques would be, not only warranted, but a moral action. After all, if I or others are, either intentionally or unintentionally, playing a role in the eternal damnation of thousands of unsuspecting individuals, opposing us would be one's moral duty.
This simply cannot be the reason, though, as most who offer the loudest dissent prove by their actions to not be fully convinced of the doctrine themselves. If they truly believed it, they would never cease to preach to those who would otherwise go there. The street corners would be filled, day and night, night and day, with throngs of impassioned Christians, desperately pleading with the world to "turn or burn". But as it is, you're more likely to find a prostitute on a street corner than you are a preacher.
This suggests to me that a majority of those who loudly speak against those who question eternal conscious torment, likely aren't convinced of it themselves. Or, if they are, but remain more or less indifferent to the billions said to be headed in that direction, prove themselves to be utterly depraved, careless, and immoral through their inaction. The burden of believing 9 out of every 10 persons is destined to burn forever is likely a burden too great for anyone to bear. And so we either secretly let go of the belief, while maintaining a facade of belief, or we simply compartmentalize, and only believe part-time. Either way, a total or part-time indifference to the eternal suffering of billions would speak to a corruption of one's morals.
If, by chance, I'm correct, and most Christians don't actually believe in eternal conscious torment themselves (or at least not all the time), why does public critique of it come under such fire? I think it is precisely because it exposes us to our own unspoken disbelief. The critique brings out into the open questions we ourselves have had, but have been terrified to think or ask aloud, and so hearing them expressed by another makes us feel uncovered and vulnerable. We fear the side of us that dares to ask such questions, and so seek to stomp out and destroy that "us" that we see in others.
Whenever you see an exaggerated and irrational anger directed at those who dare to critique certain cherished beliefs, there is likely behind it, a secret, but shameful agreement.
Helen
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I don't usually agree with many of your posts...but you hit some nails right on the head here.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I don't believe I follow you here. What does The treatment and mission of Stephen have to do with today's ministers who would who preach out of greed?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
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