Jesus and Commands

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you guys think there are 2 spirits? A man's spirit and God's Spirit?

and if you do, does it mean you think men are eternal before they receive God's Spirit...?

 

[BobRyan]

Do you guys think there are 2 spirits? A man's spirit and God's Spirit?

God's Spirit - is God the Holy Spirit in most cases in the Bible.

Man also has a spirit - it is the inner "person". But the spirit of man is mortal in that it is not from eternity past, it is not at all existent in the past before you were created in the womb - and it only survives death in a dormant state, and Matt 10:28 says God "destroys it" in fiery hell.

It would be a good topic for another thread.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you guys think there are 2 spirits? A man's spirit and God's Spirit?

way more than that i guess

 

[Episkopos]

Do you guys think there are 2 spirits? A man's spirit and God's Spirit?

and if you do, does it mean you think men are eternal before they receive God's Spirit...?

Our spirits are containers...like lamps. But they need oil.

Regeneration quickens our spirits...causes them to open up through a spiritual circumcision. And this is so that His presence can fill them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"life" is in each cell from the start - that includes the cells in your finger.. every single one of them has "life" ... that thing that makes the difference between alive.... living and dead. If you lose a finger or eye or hand - we do not issue a death certificate even though all the cells in each case are human and they all have all the DNA needed to make "another you". If you lose your brain.. we do have a funeral and pronounce "the person" as being dead. the bible says the spirit returns to God who gave it and 1 Thess 4 says the person is joining those who are "asleep in Jesus".

This is not a fact about SDAs... it is a fact about humans.

Adventists refer to the "breath of life" as the element that makes the difference between a dead cell and a living cell. It is not tied to imagining that first the cell has to "have a pair of lungs". Biochemical "respiration" takes place if the cell is alive. True of every cell in your finger, toes, eyes, hand etc.

God breathed into Adam (who was merely the dust/clay formed into the shape of a man) "the breath of life" and man became a living soul/being. Every single cell "alive" and functioning organs - including a functioning brain.

Had Adam suffered an accident and lost a finger... no funeral for the finger even though every single cell in it.. fully human. Sounds like you want "another thread topic".



Well if you want to "witness" to the idea that you attend funerals for "lost fingers" I leave it to you to make that case.



Adam is not "alive" before God breaths into him "the breath of LIFE". It is that breath of "life" that makes him alive.

Ps 104
25 There is the sea, great and broad,
In which are swarms without number,
Animals both small and great.
26 There the ships move along,
And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it.
27 They all wait for You
To give them their food in due season.
28 You give to them, they gather it up;
You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good.
29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed;
You take away their spirit, they expire
And return to their dust.
30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;
And You renew the face of the ground.

You want to know when the spirit of man enters during gestation? I am pretty sure a brain is needed but I don't know exactly when during the pregnancy that happens. Certainly very early. And I am fairly certain that zygotes don't have such organs.

This sounds like you needing to start a thread topic on some new thread.

Seeing as the spirit is invisible, it doesn't need a brain (the soul may need a brain). Again, all you go to is physiology - equal to the mindset of the letter of the law, which again is your go-to.

I don't need a new thread to talk about sin, and abortion is sin, whether Adventists believe that or not.

 

[quietthinker]

What is the difference?

'the church' institutionally is in pursuit of things of the world. The movement on the other hand is God directed

 

[quietthinker]

More like - "a single former Seventh-day Adventist" is not the same as the "entire Seventh-day Adventist denomination and statement of beliefs". But yes I do agree that there is the history of Seventh-day Adventists where this or that "person" said any of a number of things and the stated set of beliefs were published as being a list of 20 or 29 or 27 or ... depending on what year one looks for the published set of statements.

But in this case everyone of the published statements is still held by that denomination to be correct because they are not considered to be contradicting/opposing statements. It is not like they were saying "oh wait! back the bus up we took a wrong turn back there... lets go back and take the left fork instead of the right".

Or do you mean "Adventist" as in the Millerites that came along before the Seventh-day Adventist church... sunday-keeping, immortal-soul-believing etc Millerites who were also called "Adventists" by many non-Millerites.

(Starting to sound like a good topic for another thread)

'The Conflict of the Ages' series of books written by EGW, are enlightening to any person who has a relationship with Jesus.
If you are not familiar with them do yourself a favour and get familiar them. Here they are:

Any chapter of any of these books can stand alone. Its not like you have to read the whole lot to get a handle on their spirit.

1 Patriarchs and Prophets
2 Prophets and Kings
3 The Desire of Ages
4 The Acts of the Apostles
5 The Great Controversy

 

[BobRyan]

'The Conflict of the Ages' series of books written by EGW, are enlightening to any person who has a relationship with Jesus.
If you are not familiar with them do yourself a favour and read them. Here they are:

1 Patriarchs and Prophets
2 Prophets and Kings
3 The Desire of Ages
4 The Acts of the Apostles
5 The Great Controversy

Free online.

However my previous statement was not about those books - it was about the published "statement of belief" as it appeared over the years from 1870 and onward.

 

[BobRyan]

Seeing as the spirit is invisible, it doesn't need a brain

So you are back to "when someone loses a finger we hold a funeral"?

I don't need a new thread to talk about sin, and abortion is sin,

I am one of those people who thinks that killing a person is a sin - including an unborn baby.

But when it comes to zygotes etc... I leave that one up to the Catholic church to debate. And I don't call for having a funeral if someone loses a finger in a tragic accident.

But that's just me.

 

[quietthinker]

Free online.

However my previous statement was not about those books - it was about the published "statement of belief" as it appeared over the years from 1870 and onward.

Ohhh, I haven't got a clue about those statements and frankly I don't care.
It seems that the religious systems feel compelled to cross all the t's and dot all the i's academically all the while building edifices and acquiring real estate as if that's some sort of measure of truth.

 

[Helen]

has it crossed anyones mind that the Adventist movement is not the same as the Adventist Church?

No...how so?

 

[brakelite]

has it crossed anyones mind that the Adventist movement is not the same as the Adventist Church?

Like any "church", there are positives and negatives, and one can experience the negative of stuck in a place where there is no positive and be disheartened. Or at a time when the negative has not yet been dealt with by God. I've seen both. But the movement is still alive and well, and the ship hasn't crashed against Malta yet. But it is heading in that direction, a meeting with Rome is inevitable...
KJV Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[brakelite]

So when we are living 'in eternity' there will be no sense of past present or future? Even God, who lived before ' times and seasons', laid plans for the future.

. Eternity has no time. That is the point.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

'the church' institutionally is in pursuit of things of the world. The movement on the other hand is God directed

I'm an adventist and a member of the Church, in that I believe in the second advent and that it is imminent, but I am not a denominationalist.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So when we are living 'in eternity' there will be no sense of past present or future? Even God, who lived before ' times and seasons', laid plans for the future.

He is outside of time, so sees the "future" now, and tells us of it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you are back to "when someone loses a finger we hold a funeral"?

Don't be ridiculous. That is your analogy, I haven't even gone there. That is yours to own, but it isn't a good analogy of anything.

I am one of those people who thinks that killing a person is a sin - including an unborn baby.

Good.

Then we can agree that this would be a good verse to have in our Bible?

Thou shalt not doubt whether a thing shall be or not be. Thou shalt
not take the name of the Lord in vain. Thou shalt love thy
neighbor more than thine own soul. Thou shalt not murder a child by
abortion, nor again shalt thou kill it when it is born. Thou shalt
not withhold thy hand from thy son or daughter, but from their youth
thou shalt teach them the fear of God.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm an adventist and a member of the Church, in that I believe in the second advent and that it is imminent, but I am not a denominationalist.

I think defining ourselves and others by titles of any sort is tricky business and only warranted by those who feel the need to categorise. God will have the defining say and if we have confidence in our forgiveness and our sympathies go out to those that know not God we are blessed.

 

[quietthinker]

No...how so?

one has human aspirations the other seeks the Glory of God.

 

[brakelite]

He is outside of time, so sees the "future" now, and tells us of it.

You evade the issue. Are you saying that in eternity, there is no past, present, our future. And some scriptural support for your stance please.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You evade the issue. Are you saying that in eternity, there is no past, present, our future. And some scriptural support for your stance please.

What I am saying is that you can't apply this statement of yours - "Even God, who lived before ' times and seasons', laid plans for the future" on earth, to the spirit realm, that has no beginning or end, just like God. Hebrews 7

Have you ever looked straight up at the stars and pretended you were traveling in a rocket? What is at the end? A wall? What's on the other side of the wall? Its mind boggling.