Jesus and Commands

[mjrhealth]

put into refreshed

Does not say "refreshed" it says new,m just like teh new patch in teh old garment, you cannot mix the two together, christanity did, and all they got was religion. The spirit and teh flesh, all the old was by teh flesh, the Israelites and Jews doing, teh new is all by teh Spirit, where He did it all, but stil lso many trying to enter in by teh flesh.

 

[dataylor]

And how is that working for you?
How many of us can honestly say that we totally fulfil "Love God with EVERYTHING we have, mind, heart, soul, strength..and neighbour as ourself"
If anyone dare to say yes. They love God with every moment of the day first and foremost. Which in my book would include the whole of self...No TV, no hours watching sports , no entertainment...but like Jesus..the whole life turned over to Fathers will. If anyone say that is just what they do and how they live...I would probably have to call them a liar...
Our obedience at it very best still falls far short of God's requirements.
As you say...the new commandments are far ABOVE the old law...and no one could keep that!! Do you really believe we can and do keep the new NT laws????
I do not....put you hand up if you are.

Our only hope is knowing that Jesus and Jesus alone is our Saviour and Redeemer.
He willingly stands in our place.

Each to their own....we are free 'to try' ...but I know Who I believe and where I choose to stand..IN HIM....because however hard I try...I cannot.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. James certainly thought obeying God's Royal Law was possible. I've been a Christian for over 40 years ... and I've found that it gets easier every year. Am I perfect? Of course not. And I do not make excuses for my failings; rather, my failings -- one by one -- are what teaches me what I need to overcome.

And we CAN overcome, or Jesus was not telling the truth:

Rev 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 2:17 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'
Rev 2:26 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

 

[Richard_oti]

New wine is put into refreshed wine skins because even brand new unused wine skins will fail if the wine skin has gone hard and brittle.
<snip>

Just a note: "New" wine, is fermenting, therefore generating and releasing CO2. Thus the need for new wine skins, so that they will not burst.

 

[Jay Ross]

Just a note: "New" wine, is fermenting, therefore generating and releasing CO2. Thus the need for new wine skins, so that they will not burst.

Look at the Greek root word G:2537. Yes what you are saying is true, but unless the new wine skin is pliable it too be burst because new wine skins can become hard and brittle if they are not used relatively straight away. To be able to use the now hard and brittle wine skins, they have to be refurbished by the rubbing in of oils and waxes so that they are again pliable.

Even "old" used wineskins, can be refurbished again so that they can hold the "new" wine.

Just like leather shoes, if they are not regularly "polished" with oils and wax, they too become hard and brittle and will crack and tear apart.

 

[Jay Ross]

We must look to the original texts and the meaning of the original text words to come to a better understanding of what is being said.

This is certainly true of G:2537, refreshed, made like new again, and G3501, new with respect to age.

In the New {neos} wine into the refurbished {kainous} wine skins parable, both G:3501 and G:2537 are translated into the same English word "New" which means that the original intent of this parable is lost.

 

[Questor]

So many people writing, and yet so few direct questions answered.

This is in Bible study because answers should be biblically based and I'd like to avoid personal comments since they add nothing to a discussion.


I hear many say that Jesus has come to abolish the law because we are no longer under the law. This comes from

Mathew 5:17


It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law.


So, the law is a set of commands that God has given us.

Did Jesus give us any commands that we are to follow?

If so, what are they?

If not, why not.


John 14:15 says:

"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments". (NASB)


WHAT COMMANDMENTS??

Yeshua spoke for YHVH at all times...he said himself that he only says what the father tells him to say, what he has himself seen, in his pre-existent state as a part of Abba.


Yeshua was also an observant Jew, speaking to Jews, and what you call commandments and laws are G-d's Torah...his teaching to the Jews. They are commandments, certainly, and they are a covenant between G-d and the Israelites...but exactly what are we? We are grafted into Yeshua and are of the true Judaic vine, which makes us of the house of Judah, and thus Israelites...it would nice if we began to behave a bit like it. And not for salvation, and not because of the Old Covenant, which has been made new for those people born of Judaic Ancestry as well as for Gentiles, but because we are already beginning to walk in the New Covenant, where the Old Covenant if written into our minds and hearts, with the Ruach HaKodesh as our tutor.


Yet Yeshua amplified and deepened the understanding of the Torah that the Jews attempted to practice in the 1st century. There are 1050 different restatements and amplifications in the Apostolic Writings. If we but follow what is written there, walking in love for the Father, and for one another, we will do all the commandments that are part of the Mosaic Covenant that pertain to the love of G-d and the love of each other.


However, we are not to do them as Rabbinical Jews do, but in spirit and in truth, reading the Word, and by learning to do these things, bit by bit.


There is no condemnation for us that are in Yeshua because he has already taken our sin-debt, and paid it. When we sin again in our ignorance, and under the carnal nature we still live within, so long as we resolve to change for the better and ask for help to do so, we are forgiven as grace is granted us. This forgiveness is granted over and over, often for the same sins, because we who did not grow up in strict Apostolic discipleship do not know what to do, and must learn, and learning involves failure. But sinning deliberately and flagrantly because you have obtained grace is the way to damnation, and much of the Church is headed that way.


It is a fact that we will sin. Sha'ul lamented the fact that he could not refrain from sinning and wanted nothing so much as to be done with the body of death he was in. It is also a fact that if we love G-d and love Yeshua, and are reborn with the Ruach HaKodesh within us, we will daily attempt to obey G-d, and begin again whenever we fail. Being human, and within a carnal nature, even though we are judicially dead to that nature, it still weighs on us like so much rotting meat.


But obedience is not about salvation, which is a free gift, and received at the beginning of our relationship with YHVH through Yeshua, but the worship of G-d. If you value someone more than yourself, you will do as they ask...this obedience is acknowledging the worth we value so much that is part of G-d's nature. So when we obey from love, and not fear...not for the sake of unity within the church, but because we value G-d, we are worshipping him. Obedience to the 1st through 4th Commandments given in the Torah is that worship, and so are many other laws in the Mosaic Covenant. They should all be studied, and added into our lives as our worship of G-d, to the extent that you can do them, and with the intent of pleasing him.


When we attempt to love one another, we keep the 5th-10th commandments as they prevent us from hurting one another, but they are just a beginning in loving. Having all the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control. Having these fruits developed in us by the practice of the commandments in the New Testament makes us able to be obedient and thus worshipping G-d with all our actions.


As for the remainder of the 613 commandments that Rabbinical Jews labor over...well, we have plenty of these same commandments discussed in the New Testament. Study them in the Old and the New Testaments, toss out those that have to do with the Temple, and worship your G-d.

thegodconspiracy.com/2017/02/26/1050-new-testament-commands/

 

[GodsGrace]

I do not know you nor anything about you except a few words I read on this site.

For myself: I ask. The response of "love", is to do.

If I have to "demand", then the response is not that of love, but of fear.

You are part of the "bride" of Christ. Would you "ask" or "demand" that your "husband" no longer leave his dirty socks on the floor?

I'm not God.
God demands.

There are many reasons why God demands our obedience and has from the time of Adam and Eve.

1. Obedience demonstrates true, living, "saving" faith.
James 2:17


2. Obedience is part of complete repentance (turn from doing sin, turn to obey God).


3. We remain "in Christ" only by obeying Him.


4. Obeying God is how we love on Him (and Jesus).
John 14:15


5. Obeying God is the means by which we have interaction with Him, it is how we get to know God intimately through personal experience.


6. God can only work in this world directly through the obedience of His direct representatives to the world (those who are in Christ are God's Ambassadors).
We are God's hands and feet.


7. Through our obedience, God gives unbelievers reasons for belief in Him and reason for "saving" faith in Christ.


8. Ultimately, the ONLY way one demonstrates who his Lord and Master is, is by who he lives to serve and obey.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ultimately, the ONLY way one demonstrates who his Lord and Master is, is by who he lives to serve and obey.

Word. Doesn't matter whether you think you need works, or don't think you need works, that all fades into insignificance when you realize that you are going to have works regardless, and they are going to demonstrate what you really have faith in. We do not waste our time doing stuff that we do not believe will bear fruit, we do because that is where our "faith" is.

Although i like @Richard_oti 's reply too.

 

[GodsGrace]

Word. Doesn't matter whether you think you need works, or don't think you need works, that all fades into insignificance when you realize that you are going to have works regardless, and they are going to demonstrate what you really have faith in. We do not waste our time doing stuff that we do not believe will bear fruit, we do because that is where our "faith" is.

Amen.
Well said.

(I do worry about new Christians who hear that works are not necessary.
That all we need to do is "accept". This is not what Jesus or Paul or any other writer said.)

 

[bbyrd009]

(I do worry about new Christians who hear that works are not necessary.
That all we need to do is "accept". This is not what Jesus or Paul or any other writer said.)

hey, they can buy it if it suits them, and if it does not they can refuse to buy it. Imo a new seeker needs to hear that works are not necessary, while a meat eater who has laid the right foundation needs to explore the works that are necessary.

 

[GodsGrace]

Seems that you are ignoring the fact that the 10 Commandments ARE the Old Covenant. And that being the case, are you suggesting that Christians are not really under a new covenant, but under the Old? (Of course, you would not be the first to do this).

Are you saying that the 10 commandments are no longer to be kept?
Since the OC is not made obsolete but is made BETTER, we all are still also under the OC since we gentiles have been grafted in.
Romans 11

The NC is a far better covenant and is completed, or fulfilled, in Christ.
The 10 commandments are still in force.
Stealing was a sin 3,000 years ago and it's a sin today.
The atheist world lives by the 10 commandments.

The NC is a better covenant because it required only ONE sacrifice forever more.
Leviticus 17:11
The life is in the blood.
And God has given us HIS blood to atone for our sins.

This does not mean there are no more sins which require forgiveness.
Sin still exists because we break the 10 commandments but we have an advocate to speak for us with God Father and no further sacrifices are necessary.
Hebrews 9:22

We are made FREE TO OBEY God and to live for HIM.
We are made free to flee from acts that lead to death.
Sin STILL equals death.

By our belief in Jesus, that is a free gift from God through our faith in Him, Jesus has made it possible for us to have a right relationship with God and to serve him freely and happily because of mutual love.

The 10 commandments have not been abolished.
They are still in effect.
Jesus quoted each one of them.
This would require some study, but we could do this if you wish.

Also, remember that Jesus said to the adulterous woman:
"Go and sin no more".
Jesus expects us to keep the commandments.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, not in the example you are giving above. He was correcting the "understanding" of something existing.

Most notably, he quoted Deuteronomy frequently.

Yet, they are nothing new. The concepts already existed.

The "Sermon on the Mount" including the "Beatitudes" are based upon teachings already contained within the TaNaKh (Old Testament) and books of wisdom.

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom.
TaNaKh: Mishle [Proverbs] 29:23 …he who is lowly in spirit shall obtain honor.

Matthew 5:4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
TaNaKh: Tehillim [Psalms] 147:3 He heals the brokenhearted, and binds up their wounds.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
TaNaKh: Tehillim [Psalms] 37:11 The meek shall inherit the earth, and delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
TaNaKh: Tehillim [Psalms] 24:3--4 Who shall ascend the mount of the Lord, and who shall stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart…

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
TaNaKh: Tehillim [Psalms] 34:14 …seek peace and pursue it.

Matthew 5:39 …but if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also…
TaNaKh: Eykhah [Lamentations] 3:30 Let him offer his cheek to him who smites him…

Matthew 5:42 Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.
TaNaKh: Tehillim [Psalms] 37:21 …the righteous deals graciously and gives. Psalms 37:26 All day he deals graciously and lends…

That should be enough to get the idea. Thus the concepts contained in the books of wisdom are also now part of the "law"?

All of which was already written beforehand.

Mic 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but, to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

I agree with all you've said except the very first sentence -- highlighted above.

Jesus DID change an old law thus making it new.
For instance,
"You have heard it said, an eye for an eye"
"BUT I SAY TO YOU, love your enemies."

In the O.T. civil law it was permitted and even required that one should do to another as that other did to him.

Jesus totally changed this with the rule of loving our enemies.
Loving our enemies was a totally unknown concept in the O.T.

I'd say that's a NEW law.
Most of the others were, as you've said, a better understanding, or I like to say, it brought the law from the mind to the heart.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GodsGrace, I know this scripture well and to answer your question fully will take a lot of space. So I may leave a little out. In Matt 5:17 Jesus was referring to everything that is written about Him in the OT. For the past year I've been studying the OT because for the first 30 yrs of my walk with God I studied the NT. I see you're young, nothing wrong with that. I'm 65.
Are you aware of how many things in the OT are talking about Jesus but it can't say it means Jesus because He hadn't come yet. I keep finding more and more scriptures that after I read them it hits me, That's referring to Jesus. It blows my mind. Most of us only know the scriptures in Isiah that refer to Jesus but there are many, many more. Some of them have happened already but others haven't. This is what Jesus meant in Matt 5:17. Until everything happens the earth won't end. That is the age of mankind won't end until everything written about Jesus happens. The ancient Jews also had writings they called the Book of the Law. The Pharisees and Sadducee's spent endless hours debating these things. I think today's rabbis still have copies of these books. I was never a Jew so I don't know how to get a copy. But if I finish studying the Bible I'd love to read the ancient books of the law. They aren't God inspired but I'd like to know what the Pharisees and Sadducee's used to debate. Additionally, since Jesus referred to them there's probably knowledge in them that's important. But first a person better know the Bible like the back of your hand or you'll get confused.
Jesus gave us many commands but He knew the average believer would argue over them so He tried to sum them up and make them so simple a 1st grader could understand them. Jesus boiled them down to 2 commands. 1. Love God more than anything else. Now that means obey God the Father. To God, to love means to do what He says. To God love is behavior, not just the warm cozy feeling we consider love. Ever since God performed all the miracles He used to get the Jews out of Egypt man keeps breaking the first command. Have you ever considered if you were running away from an enemy and all of sudden a sea blocked your path? I'd figure that's it, I'm going to be killed. Fear would fill me as I waited to die. But then the man leading us, Moses, raises his arms and this huge body of water opens up. Additionally, a tornado of fire blocks the path of my enemy. Moses says go down there. But I'm thinking the ground is going to be like muck and I'll get stuck. But I go, and lo and behold, the muck is solid ground. I escaped my enemy and Moses told me my God did this. Imagine if you saw all that. Would you ever doubt that God again? I don't think I would. But mankind keeps doubting Him. When we doubt God we're putting our trust in Satan. And Satan is God's #1 enemy. Satan comes in many forms, a car, a house, a job, money, pride, TV shows, even what we think is the love of another person. I can write a chapter on this alone. God always has to come first. Jesus said it.
The 2nd most important commandment Jesus gave us is to love each other as He loved us. How much did He love us? Enough to die a painful death for us. At 65 I spend a lot of time thinking about dying. It's great if you get to die in your sleep. But to have to die the way Jesus did is one of the worst ways to go. But He did it and He did it for us. Again love is behavior, and Jesus demonstrated His love with His behavior. Jesus also said to always forgive each other. If we don't God is not obligated to forgive us. Seems simple enough to me. But I've known church going people that get so angry because someone insulted them that they probably would kill that person if it wasn't illegal
If you do things like that you don't love Jesus. We all get angry and sometimes the anger is justified. But Jesus doesn't care about that, He still expects us to forgive that person. Yes, it's hard. Walking with the Lord is hard. Remember, I've been working this some 40 years, and I still make mistakes. Being a Christian is a life long journey. It does get easier but it takes time.

As you keep reading the NT you'll keep noticing more and more things Jesus said. But they all revolve around love, and love is behavior.
This is a good place for me to point something out that has changed since Jesus was here. 2000 yrs ago life was so hard no one in in their right mind would hurt themselves. So Jesus often said love others as you love yourself. There were no antibiotics back then so you could lose an arm, leg, or your life from a simple cut. Today some people cut themselves because they know they can heal it. Such a person might think it's ok with God if they cut others too. It's not ok with God. Jesus assumed we'd never hurt ourselves and unless we were fasting for God we'd never go without food. I don't think anorexia or other eating disorders existed in Jesus day. Bear that in mind when Jesus says treat others as you treat yourself.

One last thing. The laws that Jesus made unnecessary were the Jewish laws that dealt with being ceremonially clean. We don't have to do those. For example, we can eat pork but it's more healthy if you don't. In Moses day eating pork could kill you. Today we feed pigs chemicals so we don't die but now we have illnesses that so rare 35 yrs ago almost no one heard of them. Autism is an example of this. Fibromyalgia is another. We don't know what causes these illnesses but many of us think it's the food additives. Most of God's laws had a good reason. Washing the outside of a cup and thinking that made you godly was not 1 of them. Jesus mentioned that.

I hope I answered some of your questions, GodsGrace. Feel free to PM me if you want.

Great post.
Thanks for the time and effort.
Welcome to the forum and hang around...

 

[GodsGrace]

New wine is put into refreshed wine skins because even brand new unused wine skins will fail if the wine skin has gone hard and brittle.

Also, in the letter to the Hebrews, where we find the Translated word "better," the translated Greek word is best understood to suggest that we now have a "stronger" covenant, because of Christ. God's covenant with mankind has remained the same since the time of Adam in the garden of Eden, however, the process of atonement has been changed by God twice, that I am aware of, because man fell and kept on not measuring up.

The English word "better" suggests that the original covenant has been replace by a brand new covenant, whereas if the Greek word is understood to have the meaning of a "stronger" covenant, then the covenant has not be changed at all, but only made stronger for the fallen of mankind to gain redemption, should they chose too.

Great explanation!

You said that God's method of atonement has been changed twice.
Do you mean once? Before it was animals, and then Jesus.
That would be one change.
??

Welcome to the forum.
Please reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

hey, they can buy it if it suits them, and if it does not they can refuse to buy it. Imo a new seeker needs to hear that works are not necessary, while a meat eater who has laid the right foundation needs to explore the works that are necessary.

A new seeker does not need to hear about works because it's not works that will save him. He needs to hear about Jesus, the gospel message, how Jesus saves us by the Holy Spirit indwelling, etc.

AFTER a person is saved, then everything we do is done for God and we live by the spirit within which naturally brings to doing good deeds and obeying God.

It's not correct to say that we are not to do the above. OR that it is not necessary.

In fact, I'd say that by the absence of good deeds and obedience we should question our salvation since they are a natural product of faith in Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

In fact, I'd say that by the absence of good deeds and obedience we should question our salvation since they are a natural product of faith in Jesus.

after the foundation is laid, and the failure of the law is understood, certainly.

 

[verzanumi24]

This is in bible study because answers should be biblically based and I'd like to avoid personal comments since they add nothing to a discussion.

I hear many say that Jesus has come to abolish the law because we are no longer under the law. This comes from
Mathew 5:17

It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law.

So, the law is a set of commands that God has given us.
Did Jesus give us any commands that we are to follow?
If so, what are they?
If not, why not.

John 14:15 says:
"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments". (NASB)

WHAT COMMANDMENTS??

That depends on what law we are talking about. When one hear the word law, the first thing that comes to people's mind is the Ten Commandments, or fewer might think it's referring to the other laws that came under the Old Covenant.

But the fact is, anything that God/Jesus commanded is a law the same way a king's word is law once he uttered it. So when Jesus said, If you love Me, you will keep my commandments, He wasn't talking about the Ten Commandments, but instead Jesus was talking about the things He commanded His people to do.

As for what Jesus said, He didn't come to destroy the law. If you read the entire thought, you will see that He said He came to fulfill it. The law in this case is speaking about what the sacrificial law that the Israelite were commanded by God to do.....Jesus fulfilled what the law pointed to....the perfect sacrifice that would end all sacrifice. That is why it say in the Bible that Jesus was sacrificed for us.

 

[Helen]

I'm not God.
God demands.


8. Ultimately, the ONLY way one demonstrates who his Lord and Master is, is by who he lives to serve and obey.

Yep...that really works with my husband and I ..
Somehow I do not believe that is how God sees The Bride of Christ.
We are free to choose...choose to be His love slave and with Him always.

Not until the end will we find out how well we did with the freedom He has given us.
Demanding love does not work too well.
You make God out to be a tyrant, rather than a wooer of our hearts.

 

[Richard_oti]

I agree with all you've said except the very first sentence -- highlighted above.

Jesus DID change an old law thus making it new.
For instance,
"You have heard it said, an eye for an eye"
"BUT I SAY TO YOU, love your enemies."

In the O.T. civil law it was permitted and even required that one should do to another as that other did to him.

Jesus totally changed this with the rule of loving our enemies.
Loving our enemies was a totally unknown concept in the O.T.

Matthew 5:44a But I say to you: “Love your enemies...
Proverbs 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink…

<snip>

 

[Richard_oti]

I'm not God.

And thus, you would not "demand" of your spouse. But rather, as you posted elsewhere, give him something to respect.

God demands.

Yet, "God" also is not a respecter of persons. Does "God" want you to accept and follow his instructions because he "demands" it, or because you "love" him?

One can do what another "demands", it does not require love. However, to do as one has asked in His instruction, not because it is "demanded", is done out of love. That is the type of heart "God" seeks IMO.

<snip>