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Featured JESUS AND THE TWELVE PREACHED A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    None of those references say that Jesus and the twelve "preached the gospel of the Davidic kingdom on earth"
     
  2. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 5:3)

    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 5:10)

    Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven;Mt 5:19)

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, (Mt 7:21)

    As you go, proclaim the good news, ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near. (My 10:7
    )
    etc. etc.

    Jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  3. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    WOW!
    Jesus died only for the Jews.
    Jesus died only for OT sins.

    Then who died to atone for our sins?
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    There are those who say that Jesus, the apostles and Paul all preached the same gospel.
    I stated in the post that "The twelve disciples were sent to preach the same gospel that the Lord Jesus Christ was preaching to Israel, the gospel of the kingdom." and was so differentiating it from Paul's gospel.
    Sorry for your difficulty.
     
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  5. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Jesus preached the cross.
    And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” (John 3:14-15)
    "everyone who believes in him may have eternal life" - not just Jews.

    Neither of you references say that this ",mystery" was delivered only to Paul.
    They just say people did not know "in previous generations"

    In Eph 3:7 says Paul says this "mystery" was revealed "unto his holy apostles"
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Please cite, what other gospel did Jesus preach
     
  7. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    No there is no statement that says that exactly, what kingdom was at hand then? Matthew 4:17 what kingdom was Jesus preaching?
     
  8. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    Well I do not believe that there is any separation in the Gospel, for there is neither Jew or gentile, only those that are Grafted into the root and fatness of the God of Israel!
     
  9. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Yes he did and the kingdom of heaven is the Davidic kingdom on earth
     
  10. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    You must have missed this, where I said after that:
    Jesus did not preach the cross, Jesus did not reveal all that would be accomplished at the cross in reconciling all mankind to himself (2 Corinthians 5:19); that was revealed to Paul as being mystery (Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:3-7).
     
  11. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that when Paul preached the kingdom of God it was a different kingdom of God to the one Jesus preached?
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Please read further and see what was to be believed.....John 3:18 "believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Israel had to believe Jesus as the Son of God, the Christ....that was all
     
  13. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    There is no reference that says it was ONLY revealed to Paul nor did I say it
    BUT the mystery was revealed to Paul by Christ Jesus (Galatians 1:12) and to the apostles by the Spirit (Ephesians 3:5) as it was "now revealed" (Ephesians 3:5).
     
  14. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    As I said the kingdom consists of heaven and earth...the body of Christ has place in the heavenly kingdom as stated
     
  15. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    You are not supplying scripture to support your position except for Paul who was given revelation by Christ
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    I would have to cite the entire Gospel of John. But John chapters 3 and 6 should suffice (for starters). And you should be the one studying them and telling us what that Gospel is.
     
  17. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Timeline gentlemen timeline....
    Who did Christ say He came for?
    Who was Christ speaking to most of the time in the Gospels?
    Did He address Judaism at times?
    What can we glean from those conversations?
    Did He speak of a higher level of morals and thinking that would lead to Christianity?
    Did He ever say, "Here is the Christian thought for today."
    When did the Gospels turn to the Gentiles?
    Did the Jewish Christians follow the teachings of Paul?
    Did the Gentile Christians follow the religious practices of the Jewish Christians?
    Did Christ say it would be a good idea to mix and match Judaism and Christianity?
    Which sect of Christianity survived?
    If you trace your bloodline back to the Christian era....are your ancestors Jewish or Pagan?
     
  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for explaining. I now understand your conclusion or your direction even if I don't understand the 'why' of it.

    What you have posted thus far does not separate it for me into two gospels or the need for two gospels. What would be the point of God doing that?

    Very simply what I see is that in Eden our first natural parents lost Life for themselves and for their children... all of their children which would include the natural children of Jacob and everyone else too . In other words, every child born of woman was effectively born dead in the eyes of God, but Jesus was sent with a remedy to be available to "whosoever will":

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" John 10:10

    Jesus was sent to bring to men the Life lost to them in Eden. All men lost real Life at that time, which shows why there was/is a need to be born again or from above.

    The details for those dwelling on planet Earth prior to the pouring out of the Life giving Holy Spirit as described in Acts 2; and for those dwelling here thereafter, may differ, but ultimately the need for Life is the same need of every person born of woman without regard to when he/she was born in the flesh. Why would two sets of good news announcements be needed? You have not explained that.

    Posting scriptural references as you have done might be a good thing if you had also explained exactly how each reference necessitates or even supports your conclusion. I am not saying that you wrong, but so far I have seen no reason to seriously consider that you might be right.
     
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  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    It is not the gospel that was/is different; but rather, it is the two folds that He must bring that are different.
     
  20. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    People like to label things because that is one of the ways the mind categorizes its understanding of reality. And it works for the surface of understanding, or what people call the milk of understanding.

    For a deeper understanding, you need to cast that aside. The entire period of the NT can be said to be in the process of transitions. That goes for the Jews, the Christian ministry, the Romans, and the populace.

    People like to Judaize Christianity and for me I find it humorous because I know, that back then the Jew were having a hard time trying figure out how to practice their own religion. Much less someone today trying to figure out how to juggle Judaism and Christianity.

    Some try to say that there are two Gospels. Labels will get you. Good News, right. But Christ is not spreading a lot of the Good News. He is not getting along with most of the people we see in the Bible. He was not standing in the city or at that Temple explaining to people how to be saved and be Christians...for obvious reasons. He is kind to people, performing miracles and maybe telling His Apostles the Good News and selected individuals, but it really isn’t going to be called the Good News until later.

    Christ is dealing with the Jews mostly…call it what you will….testing the waters? And a lot of times talking about Judaism to the Jews.

    Sermon on the Mount, the parable of Sheep and the Goats etc, are general concepts of right and wrong. Not a specific description to salvation and to heaven. For good reason, salvation could not be fully possible until after the cross. Timeline. That is why the word salvation only occurs 3 times in the Gospels, and only in general terms….

    He does get into conversations with some individuals about the path, but unfortunately, still not well defined…ergo the on going arguments for centuries. He is talking in general terms, because it is not time yet.


    He is keeping things secret because it is not time yet. If He says to the Jews that He is the Son of God and the Messiah, they will kill Him, because their religion tells them to kill Him. He not going to say He is the King of the Jews, because the Romans will kill Him.

    Although there is some evidence that there is a ministry in the back ground for Christianity, but that is definitely not in the forefront of the Gospels. Do not get me wrong, even though Christ is talking mostly to the Jews there are things that we can glean from the conversations.

    The physical events of the Good News are the cross and His resurrection and the Proclamation of the Good News announced by Mary Magdalene.

    How exactly the Jewish-Christians practiced Christianity is hard to say. Most agree that many of the Apostles and the Jewish-Christians were mixing the Mosaic Laws and customs with what Christ said in the Gospels. Peter being the only exception because He eventually teams up with Paul, and in order to run with him, he has to drop some of his Jewish customs. Still there is a lot of speculation.

    As it is, for any written account, the responsibility to explain the Good News falls on the shoulders of Paul, who writes or influences nearly three quarters of the NT. Other than Peter, James has writings outside of the Gospels but he is not one of the Twelve. (Canon) Matthew and John are the only ones of the twelve that write Gospels. Mark was under Peter’s instruction and Luke under Paul’s instruction.

    From the religious perspective we glean what we can from the four Gospels, but the meat of the matter, the details are up to Paul to explain, because in just a few years, Christianity will be predominately Gentile.

    The other Apostles, if they wrote anything, it was either lost or rejected. We don’t know what they were preaching….that is not a negative. Christ sent out the seventy-two….I am sure their message was similar to what he gave the seventy-two. I am sure it was good, but we do not have the details. It would be so interesting to know.

    Bottom line, it is not a matter of how many Gospels there were, it is about the progression of the Good News through the timeline. And still, that is of what we know.

     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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