Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. What changed after the cross?

[ewq1938]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. This took place in the OT or otherwise known as a time under the old/first covenant. How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

What changed after the cross? (his death and shed blood ushered in the new covenant)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. This took place in the OT or otherwise known as a time under the old/first covenant. How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

What changed after the cross? (his death and shed blood ushered in the new covenant)

You must have forgotten

1. Matthew 9:2
   Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”
   
   
2. Matthew 9:5
   For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’?
   
   
3. Matthew 9:6
   But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins” —then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus told people repeatedly "go and sin no more" for a reason.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. This took place in the OT or otherwise known as a time under the old/first covenant. How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

Because He is God and He knew that He was going to shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins. Because of His foreknowledge of what He was going to do, He had the authority to declare people's sins forgiven since He knew His blood would retroactively cover their sins. Being God and having foreknowledge, He was able to declare things as being done even before they were actually done.

I believe the reason He forgave people's sins even before His death is because He knew that by forgiving people's sins it showed that He is God since only God can forgive sins (Luke 5:21). That's what made the Pharisees, scribes and other unbelieving Jews so upset because they didn't like Him equating Himself with God. He needed to do that or else they wouldn't have wanted to kill Him which was part of His plan (He had to die and be sacrificed somehow and that was the way God ordained for it to happen).

What changed after the cross? (his death and shed blood ushered in the new covenant)

His shed blood is what made it official, so to speak, in providing the permanent forgiveness of sins that animal sacrifices could not provide. There was no permanent covering and forgiveness of sins until His death on the cross.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. This took place in the OT or otherwise known as a time under the old/first covenant. How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

What changed after the cross? (his death and shed blood ushered in the new covenant)

The Law provided atonement for sin as a complete system. Failing in one part one fails in all of it. So not only was blood required, but there were other means of purification--not just the use of water, but water used in a particular way. Everything was sanctified by the word of God such that doing any of these things becomes common, useless, and perhaps idolatrous if not done in the particular order.

So blood was indeed required in order to obtain atonement for individuals and for the nation. Forgiveness apart from these ceremonies was possible only because these ceremonies were being carried out. For example, a person may abuse his neighbor and thus commit sin against God. He may apologize to his neighbor and confess his repentance before God, and he will be forgiven. But he is forgiven within the context of national blessing only if he does it under auspices of the regular offerings made by the priest in accordance with God's Law.

Certainly people outside of Israel could be forgiven, in accordance with their conscience. But they did not have the promise of national blessing God afforded Israel when they remained in compliance with the Law. Becoming united with God under a covenant enabled a person to obtain a special spiritual relationship with God with its corresponding blessings.

The Law, however, was just a temporary means of forgiveness and could not, therefore, provide for Eternal Life. Just one sin would disqualify Israel form Eternal Life. And we know, by testimony of the Law, that Israel regularly sinned and therefore constantly needed covering by the regulations of the Law.

This is what Paul meant by the Law increasing the knowledge of sin. Obeying the Law was a form of Israel confessing that they were, by nature, sinful, and thus needed covering by regulations of the Law, including blood atonement. And apart from this Israel did not meet conditions of their covenant with God, and therefore could not obtain special national blessing in their individual and national life.

Christ offered his own blood, which God required in order to bring not just forgiveness for special blessing but forgiveness for Eternal Life to people. He did this not just for Israel, but for all people.

Without this legal act, God refused to grant Eternal Life to anybody. People who don't know anything about Christ will be judged according to their conscience. But those who embrace Christ's covenant of forgiveness and life will obtain in this life spiritual life that is abundant and directly leads to Eternal Life.

Apart from Christ, nobody obtains the kind of life that is of the same nature as Eternal Life. This is the difference between living good lives and living the life God wants us to live, the difference between being "born again" and merely doing good acts on occasion.

If we want to experience the virtues of this abundant life Christ died to give us we must embrace Christ as our blood atonement and as the source of our spiritual life. We follow him as the divine Christ. In doing so we obtain his atonement by default.

 

[ewq1938]

You must have forgotten

1. Matthew 9:2
   Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”
   
   
2. Matthew 9:5
   For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’?
   
   
3. Matthew 9:6
   But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins” —then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”

lol. How could I forget when I am bring up the fact that sins were forgiven prior to the cross?

 

[ewq1938]

So blood was indeed required in order to obtain atonement for individuals and for the nation.

And the day before? Could sins be atoned for a little earlier than the day with the animals were sacrificed?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus told people repeatedly "go and sin no more" for a reason.

Right, because sin was the reason why Jesus came.

1 John 3:5

 

[1stCenturyLady]

lol. How could I forget when I am bring up the fact that sins were forgiven prior to the cross?

You know what? I read your OP wrong! I thought you said Jesus could not forgive sins before the cross. That's why I said you must have forgotten. I just forgot how to read!

 

[Enoch111]

How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

In God's eyes the shedding of Christ's blood was already an accomplished fact.

 

[ewq1938]

In God's eyes the shedding of Christ's blood was already an accomplished fact.

How long before the cross would that be applicable? Why did God require the blood of animals if the future blood of Christ could be borrowed upon beforehand?

 

[Patrick1966]

You must have forgotten

You need to come up with better material for insulting, belittling, and humiliating other Christians on this site. Don't hold back on your hatred. You can do it!

 

[ewq1938]

You need to come up with better material for insulting, belittling, and humiliating other Christians on this site. Don't hold back on your hatred. You can do it!

It was just a simple misunderstanding...

 

[Enoch111]

How long before the cross would that be applicable? Why did God require the blood of animals if the future blood of Christ could be borrowed upon beforehand?

Since before the foundation of the world. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Peter 1:18-20)

As to the animal sacrifices, they were meant to keep pointing to the one great sacrifice for sins on the cross. Study the epistle to the Hebrews. They could only cover sins.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. This took place in the OT or otherwise known as a time under the old/first covenant. How could he forgive sins without the shedding of blood?

What changed after the cross? (his death and shed blood ushered in the new covenant)

God's forgiveness encompasses all time for those who lived by faith. His blood sacrifice washed those in Old Testment times who lived by faith, it was imputed to them. During Jesus' ministry, He forgave sins that had the penalty of death and since He knew His purpose was to remove that penalty for all who believe in Him, it was in reality a promise that He would keep. Like in a Will, your Dad promised to give you an inheritance, when he dies. Of course if you die first, you don't get it, but your children will. The difference is, God's promise of forgiveness is truth, fixed, eternal.

 

[Lambano]

Ah, yes. The mystery of The Atonement. Why was Messiah's death even necessary? Why doesn't God forgive us our trespasses, as we were told to forgive those who trespass against us?

Sacraments are "outward and visible signs of a spiritual reality". I kinda want to ditch the mechanical religious theories like "retroactively applying the benefits of Christ's atoning death to the Old Testament saints", though Messiah's death and resurrection is also a sign to us about them too. I also want to downplay OT metaphors about Yom Kippur, the sin offering, or the blood of Passover lamb protecting this household from the Destroyer, though I see some truth in these metaphors. My working theory is one of identification. Jesus identified with us in our sin and our death. Our lives are to identify with Him in His righteousness and in the hope of His Resurrection. "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." His death and resurrection is a sign to us that we ARE forgiven.

And a metaphor for how we are to live.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And the day before? Could sins be atoned for a little earlier than the day with the animals were sacrificed?

I tried to answer that question. Forgiveness comes by the word of God. God has determined that He can forgive any sin that is confessed to Him without the shedding of blood, but not a forgiveness that obtains Eternal Life. This may or may not have been under the Law, but forgiveness under the Law had certain benefits and privileges.

In the OT we read of saints who were forgiven by God before there was a Law of Moses at all. And during the captivities, when there was no temple, God forgave Israel and restored to them their temple. Apart from this there were people outside of Israel, like Naman, who obtained forgiveness from God completely outside of the Law and its prescription of blood sacrifices.

So again, forgiveness required blood in order to complete the covenant God made with Israel under the Law. This kind of forgiveness obtained for Israel a special covenant relationship with certain blessings, including a spiritual relationship with God and the endowment of both spiritual and physical blessings. And it obtained for them a *national blessing* so that they enjoyed as a society a common knowledge of God and fellowship in His spiritual life.

Individuals in Israel received certain gifts from the Lord in their national covenant with God. For example, those who built the tabernacle were specially gifted with craftmanship. Samson was given unusual strength. Solomon received incredible wisdom. All benefited the nation as a whole, and every individual could contribute to the spiritual health of the whole society.

So all who were under covenant relationship with God were able to know God up close and personal, because He dwelled in their midst. The blood sacrifices prescribed under the Law kept them in this covenant relationship.

In the same way, the NT covenant required the blood sacrifice of Jesus in order to keep saints in special relationship with God. But the New Covenant also offers Eternal Life, which had not been available under the Law. All saints, in Israel or otherwise, require the blood sacrifice of Christ in order to obtain Eternal Life. Christ's atoning blood can, however, be applied to men who in their ignorance really long to know something they have yet to fully understand.

Those who do not know Christ or who haven't heard about him may obtain Eternal Life through the "back door" of their conscience, because God does not hold men accountable for what they don't know. But apart from living in Christ's covenant they cannot now enjoy the benefits of this covenant relationship with God. That is a great sadness.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You know what? I read your OP wrong! I thought you said Jesus could not forgive sins before the cross. That's why I said you must have forgotten. I just forgot how to read!

You need to come up with better material for insulting, belittling, and humiliating other Christians on this site. Don't hold back on your hatred. You can do it!

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus could and did forgive sins before the cross. What changed after the cross?​

What changed was how God's people saw God's unchanging nature.