Jesus is either God or is not God: There is no 'In Between'

[robert derrick]

I know who the person is that Jesus Christ said is the only true God and what this person's name is and what it means. Do you?
I know what the Bible reveals to be the four main attributes of this person that Jesus said was the only true God. Do you?
I know what the only true God’s greatest expression of love for mankind was. Do you?
I know how we can enjoy friendship with the only true God. Do you?

THERE are many famous people in the world. Some are well-known in their own community, city, or country. Others are known worldwide. However, just knowing the name of someone famous does not mean that you truly know him. It does not mean that you know details about his background and what he is really like as a person.

People around the world have heard something about Jesus Christ, even though he lived on earth some 2,000 years ago. Yet, many are confused about who Jesus really was. Some say that he was merely a good man. Others claim that he was nothing more than a prophet. Still others believe that Jesus is God and should be worshipped.

It is important for us to know the truth about Jesus. Because the Bible says: “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)
So coming to know the only true God and Jesus Christ can lead to everlasting life. (John 14:6) Furthermore, Jesus sets the best example of how to live and how to treat others. (John 13:34, 35)

And so you neither know God nor do you know Jesus Christ, and yet you presume to tell everyone who God is, and who Jesus Christ is not.

Sometimes we need to back away from all the weeds of the argument and just make things clear.

I know He is God, because I know Him. I know when I did not know Him, and now I know that I know Him.

He is my Lord and my God, and I see Him more knowingly than Thomas did in the flesh and bone after His resurrection.

So it is with everyone born of God.

 

[robert derrick]

I don't think you have. What post answered my question?



I'm not going to dignify petulance with a response.

And so all the cards of the idol's house are falling apart.

Neither do you know God, nor do you know Jesus Christ, and yet you will tell everyone who God is, and who Jesus Christ is not.

If someone has no breathe to praise the Lord and God, because they know Him not, then they have neither breathe to praise, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear:

What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

I know that He is God, because I know Him, and I know what and who is not God: any other created being among men and angels like me.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus Christ was not made a created being like us, that we should become like another created being.

Jesus Christ is God who became a man like us, that we could become like Him as declared in the beginning:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

 

[robert derrick]

I think you are confusing deity with divinity.

Angels are divine, in that they are 'of God.' Jesus, being the Son is also 'of God.' But neither are a deity. How many times does YHWH have to say he alone is our God? You do recognize that YHWH said this, right?

And so it is confirmed once again, that jehovah idolatry makes a pagan cult of the great hero and man Jesus, who like Herakles was born a son of the King of Gods, and then defied by Him as a god for doing good work on earth.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. (Deut 32)

The Word was not a god that was with god in the beginning.

Jesus Christ is not a son deified with divinity as a god with God.

 

[Wrangler]

Neither do you know God, nor do you know Jesus Christ

Probably not true of anyone who posts here, Robert.

I knew that was where you were headed; you're question aimed at putting me on the defensive. This way, I personally have to defend myself instead of you having to defend your ant-Scriptural doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

And so it is confirmed once again, that jehovah idolatry makes a pagan cult of the great hero and man Jesus, who like Herakles was born a son of the King of Gods, and then defied by Him as a god for doing good work on earth.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. (Deut 32)

The Word was not a god that was with god in the beginning.

Jesus Christ is not a son deified with divinity as a god with God.

What does not this mean?

 

[bbyrd009]

Many times we lose the main point by getting caught up in all the details of Scripture.

The main thing is that Jesus is either God or He is not.

There is the true God, and then there all the rest of us created beings: there is no 'almost' God.

God is the most high God, because there is no created being anywhere near being God, other than God Himself.

If Jesus is just another created being and man, who behaved himself heroically on earth, then he's a real hero worthy of respect and admiration and study, just like all famous or infamous men and angels, but he is not any man's savior nor redeemer nor lord nor god.

Only God can be my Savior and Redeemer and God: I am not saved by Superman, nor by a new Gilgamesh or Herakles.

All those who reject Jesus as God, only make things confusing by also hypocritically trying to honor Him as something between God and every other created being.

In Scripture, there is no such thing.

The Mediator between God and man is not another created being somewhere in between man, the angels, and God.

There is God the Creator and eternal Spirit, and there is all of us created spiritual beings among men and angels.

That's it.

sounds good i guess, but wadr to all i think it is easy as a believer to find yourself endlessly rehashing um foundational stuff, and missing the point? “The Mediator between God and man is not another created being somewhere in between man, the angels, and God” how do you know this, for a fact? An absolute truth? I said “you are Elohim”

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And so you neither know God nor do you know Jesus Christ, and yet you presume to tell everyone who God is, and who Jesus Christ is not.

Sometimes we need to back away from all the weeds of the argument and just make things clear.

I know He is God, because I know Him. I know when I did not know Him, and now I know that I know Him.

He is my Lord and my God, and I see Him more knowingly than Thomas did in the flesh and bone after His resurrection.

So it is with everyone born of God.

What you think of me is unimportant. People of Jesus day called him a liar and a demon and so many other horrible things, so I don't expect people without faith to treat me better. You want to call people who agree with such scriptures that say the true God loved mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind, as being people who don't know God or Jesus Christ, so be it. I will continue to believe what the scriptures say at John 3:16, which is, that God loved mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son so that whoever exercises faith in him will not be destroyed but have everlasting life. I'll continue to believe what the scripture at 1John 4:9 shows us which is that before the Only Begotten Son of God became human he was called the Only Begotten Son of God. I'll continue to believe that at John 1:14 It's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word who became flesh/human. Jesus at John 17:3 lets us know that to get eternal life we must know two individuals. One person is the only true God who Jesus says at John 20:17" is his Father and God so that person that Jesus says is his Father and God is our Father and God. I will not deny these scriptures simply because those without faith can't believe the truths of these scriptures. No one including you have shown me from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is God or where Jesus Christ said he was God.

 

[robert derrick]

What you think of me is unimportant. People of Jesus day called him a liar and a demon and so many other horrible things, so I don't expect people without faith to treat me better. You want to call people who agree with such scriptures that say the true God loved mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind, as being people who don't know God or Jesus Christ, so be it. I will continue to believe what the scriptures say at John 3:16, which is, that God loved mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son so that whoever exercises faith in him will not be destroyed but have everlasting life. I'll continue to believe what the scripture at 1John 4:9 shows us which is that before the Only Begotten Son of God became human he was called the Only Begotten Son of God. I'll continue to believe that at John 1:14 It's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word who became flesh/human. Jesus at John 17:3 lets us know that to get eternal life we must know two individuals. One person is the only true God who Jesus says at John 20:17" is his byand God so that person that Jesus says is his Father and God is our Father and God. I will not deny these scriptures simply because those without faith can't believe the truths of these scriptures. No one including you have shown me from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is God or where Jesus Christ said he was God.

Agreeing with Scripture is obviously not the same as knowing the God of Scripture to do the truth.

You confess you do not know Him, by being unwilling to say you do.

I know Jesus is God, because I know Him, and I know the difference between God and just another created spiritual being like me, whether angel or man.

Jesus never was unable to confess with His mouth, that He knew God and the Father.

Which is why them who did not know the God of Abraham were so enraged by Him, and called Him a blasphemer.

You can ignore that your ideology leaves you ignorant of knowing God and Jesus Christ, or simply repent and seek Jesus for who He is: the true God and eternal life.

Which as you say, really is unimportant to me. I only care about the truth of Scripture, and so speak out against the lies that make Jesus only an idol created by man.

If you want to be left alone in your ideology, then don't post it out in public for others to denounce. Otherwise, I have absolutely no problem in any person's personal ideology and faith. That is entirely their business.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Agreeing with Scripture is obviously not the same as knowing the God of Scripture to do the truth.

You confess you do not know Him, by being unwilling to say you do.

I know Jesus is God, because I know Him, and I know the difference between God and just another created spiritual being like me, whether angel or man.

Jesus never was unable to confess with His mouth, that He knew God and the Father.

Which is why them who did not know the God of Abraham were so enraged by Him, and called Him a blasphemer.

You can ignore that your ideology leaves you ignorant of knowing God and Jesus Christ, or simply repent and seek Jesus for who He is: the true God and eternal life.

Which as you say, really is unimportant to me. I only care about the truth of Scripture, and so speak out against the lies that make Jesus only an idol created by man.

If you want to be left alone in your ideology, then don't post it out in public for others to denounce. Otherwise, I have absolutely no problem in any person's personal ideology and faith. That is entirely their business.

I know that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God because the scriptures say he is. Scriptures like John 3:16; Matthew 16:13-17; Luke 4:40, 41; Mark 3:11; John 1: 34; John 11:27; John 17:3; John 20:17; 1John 4:9 these scriptures are inspired of God and show us that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son. By following the example of Jesus Christ closely as the scriptures tell us to do we know we're following the example of love that the true God taught his Only Begotten Son.

The name or, perhaps, title “the Word” (Joh 1:1) identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were formed. A similar expression is found at Exodus 4:16, where Jehovah says to Moses concerning his brother Aaron: “And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.” As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as “a mouth” for Moses. Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. YHWH God used his Only Begotten Son to convey information and instructions to others of his family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his message to humans on earth. Showing that he was God’s Word, or Spokesman, Jesus said to his Jewish listeners: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” John 7:16, 17; John 12: 49,50; 18:37.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The name or, perhaps, title “the Word” (Joh 1:1) identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were formed.

Won't work; there is danger using "part of a verse" for your ideology. Quote
All of John 1:1 and then also the Next 2 verses for understanding and belief!:

"In the beginning Was The Word, and The Word was with God,
and The Word Was God. The Same Was in the beginning With God.
All things Were Made By Him; and Without Him was not any
thing Made that was Made." (John_1:1-3)​

+ (as per Rule # 5 of Bible study Rules):

Always go by (not your ideology, But) By All The Related Scriptures,
In Order To Always Have God's Sound Doctrine, Correct?:

"Complete" study The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Won't work; there is danger using "part of a verse" for your ideology. Quote
All of John 1:1 and then also the Next 2 verses for understanding and belief!:

"In the beginning Was The Word, and The Word was with God,
and The Word Was God. The Same Was in the beginning With God.
All things Were Made By Him; and Without Him was not any
thing Made that was Made." (John_1:1-3)​

+ (as per Rule # 5 of Bible study Rules):

Always go by (not your ideology, But) By All The Related Scriptures,
In Order To Always Have God's Sound Doctrine, Correct?:

"Complete" study The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

First of all many people contradict the first half of John 1:1 so it really has no effect on me when you say I'm using only part of a verse for what you call my ideology. As I said many people contradict therefore ignore the first half of John 1:1. The first half of John 1:1 says the Word was with God not that it was God. It's not scripture that is contradicting scripture it's people's interpretation of John 1:1 that contradicts the first half of John 1:1.
People teaching that it was God who became human is unscriptural. It denies that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and so it denies it was the Only Begotten Son of God that died for mankind. Another thing people continue to ignore or deny is what John himself says when he said that everything he was inspired to write he wrote to prove that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, not God.(John 20:30, 31)

 

[APAK]

Won't work; there is danger using "part of a verse" for your ideology. Quote
All of John 1:1 and then also the Next 2 verses for understanding and belief!:

"In the beginning Was The Word, and The Word was with God,
and The Word Was God. The Same Was in the beginning With God.
All things Were Made By Him; and Without Him was not any
thing Made that was Made." (John_1:1-3)​

+ (as per Rule # 5 of Bible study Rules):

Always go by (not your ideology, But) By All The Related Scriptures,
In Order To Always Have God's Sound Doctrine, Correct?:

"Complete" study The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

What to you think the Greek transliterated term 'logos' means?

 

[Dropship]

The early Christians got it right about God and Jesus being two separate identities-
"Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)
"Jesus..has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)

 

[Pierac]

Many times we lose the main point by getting caught up in all the details of Scripture.

The main thing is that Jesus is either God or He is not.

There is the true God, and then there all the rest of us created beings: there is no 'almost' God.

God is the most high God, because there is no created being anywhere near being God, other than God Himself.

If Jesus is just another created being and man, who behaved himself heroically on earth, then he's a real hero worthy of respect and admiration and study, just like all famous or infamous men and angels, but he is not any man's savior nor redeemer nor lord nor god.

Only God can be my Savior and Redeemer and God: I am not saved by Superman, nor by a new Gilgamesh or Herakles.

All those who reject Jesus as God, only make things confusing by also hypocritically trying to honor Him as something between God and every other created being.

In Scripture, there is no such thing.

The Mediator between God and man is not another created being somewhere in between man, the angels, and God.

There is God the Creator and eternal Spirit, and there is all of us created spiritual beings among men and angels.

That's it.

Really.... not what the other Paul taught....

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

Now.... many many years after Jesus was raised from the dead by His God (Act 2:24, Act 2:32, Act 4:10, Act 10:40, Act 13:30 ) ... Paul still refers to Jesus as a Man.... Get over it dude!!

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Spirit or Flesh?
Many prophecies indicated that the Coming One would arise from the "seed," the stock of humanity, in a particular from Abrahamic and Davidic stock. The Messiah would be from the biological chain within the human family, specifically of Jewish pedigree: "The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy. For it announces that the ultimate spokesman for God is expressly not God but a human being. The New Testament says that Jesus is the one who fulfilled this prophecy (Acts 3:22; 7:37). Understandably, no Jew who believe theses Scriptures ever imagined that the baby born in Bethlehem was going to be Jehovah himself come as a human baby.

In addition, Jehovah God says clearly that he is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Job 9:32). The converse is therefore true: if a person is a man, then he can not be God.

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man and robert derrick has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on you as you sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that you could be guilty of this very same thing robert derrick? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

Next time robert derrick... Think before you post!!!
Then you won't look so .... as you now look....
Paul

 

[Bob Estey]

Many times we lose the main point by getting caught up in all the details of Scripture.

The main thing is that Jesus is either God or He is not.

There is the true God, and then there all the rest of us created beings: there is no 'almost' God.

God is the most high God, because there is no created being anywhere near being God, other than God Himself.

If Jesus is just another created being and man, who behaved himself heroically on earth, then he's a real hero worthy of respect and admiration and study, just like all famous or infamous men and angels, but he is not any man's savior nor redeemer nor lord nor god.

Only God can be my Savior and Redeemer and God: I am not saved by Superman, nor by a new Gilgamesh or Herakles.

All those who reject Jesus as God, only make things confusing by also hypocritically trying to honor Him as something between God and every other created being.

In Scripture, there is no such thing.

The Mediator between God and man is not another created being somewhere in between man, the angels, and God.

There is God the Creator and eternal Spirit, and there is all of us created spiritual beings among men and angels.

That's it.

The is no in between, but can't people who believe Jesus is God in flesh, and those who believe he is the Son of God, get along?

 

[Webers_Home]

.
• 1John 4:2-3 . . By this you know the Spirit of God . . Every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit
that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming,
and is now already in the world.

The flesh spoken of in that passage is David's flesh.

"Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to
the flesh" (Rom 1:1-3)

Now, in order for Jesus be born with David's flesh, Jesus needed a mother
biologically related to David because Joseph played no role in her pregnancy.

"The angel said unto her: You shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a
son, and shalt call his name Jesus . . . and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: (Luke 1:30-32)

So then, unless someone can prove beyond even a hint of sensible doubt
that neither Mary nor David were biologically related to Eve, then we must
concede that Jesus is biologically related to Eve; and seeing as how Eve's
body was constructed with material taken from Adam's body, then everyone
and anyone descending from Eve is/are Adam's descendants according to
the flesh.

The conclusion to draw from Jesus' biological genealogy is that the Word of
John 1:1 hasn't always existed as an h.sapiens, rather, the Word's existence
as an h.sapiens began with the very dust from which Adam was created.

Now, according to 1John 4:2-3, folks insisting that neither Mary, nor David,
nor Eve, nor Adam had a role in providing Jesus with flesh are presently
under the influence of the spirit of antichrist; and that is a really unfortunate
condition to be in.

"If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."
(Rom 8:9)
_

 

[robert derrick]

Probably not true of anyone who posts here, Robert.

I knew that was where you were headed; you're question aimed at putting me on the defensive. This way, I personally have to defend myself instead of you having to defend your ant-Scriptural doctrine.

Not at all. There is no more debate between me and you. I gave the final proofs of Scripture, that Jesus is God, and not a god, to which you have never responded.

And so, we move on to the most important thing, and you declare you don't even know God nor Jesus Christ, and yet you think to tell everyone Who He is, and Who He is not.

And now, you condemn everyone as not knowing God, because you don't.

It only proves what you have already abundantly shown in all your intellectualism: you have no mature honesty with the Scriptures, nor now with yourself.

Until you repent of your sinning, and receive Jesus Christ within your heart to know Him, then all your pseudo scholarship is not just false, but is also worthless for your soul:

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

If you want the debate to continue, then answer the proofs I offered. One of your fellow idolaters tried, but failed miserably, but evading 4 of them altogether:

1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is the Maker of all things.

2. You say the word was with God, and the word was a god. The LORD God declares there is no god with Him (Deut 32), including all gods that have not made anything will perish. (Jerem 10)

3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made doing on earth Himself in Person. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.

4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth: The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ. (1 John 1, 5)

5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, which includes His name Yehovah.

6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God.

If you care to answer any of these, without evasion of what is being said, then please do, and we can continue the debate.

But, in any case, if you don't repent, you'll never know God and Jesus Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

I know that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God because the scriptures say he is. Scriptures like John 3:16; Matthew 16:13-17; Luke 4:40, 41; Mark 3:11; John 1: 34; John 11:27; John 17:3; John 20:17; 1John 4:9 these scriptures are inspired of God and show us that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son. By following the example of Jesus Christ closely as the scriptures tell us to do we know we're following the example of love that the true God taught his Only Begotten Son.

The name or, perhaps, title “the Word” (Joh 1:1) identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were formed. A similar expression is found at Exodus 4:16, where Jehovah says to Moses concerning his brother Aaron: “And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.” As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as “a mouth” for Moses. Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. YHWH God used his Only Begotten Son to convey information and instructions to others of his family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his message to humans on earth. Showing that he was God’s Word, or Spokesman, Jesus said to his Jewish listeners: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” John 7:16, 17; John 12: 49,50; 18:37.

You are also being hypocritical in capitalizing the Word and the Son. No god is to be capitalized with God, even as there is no god with Him.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

But it is no small wonder that someone who does not know the Lord God, would care about anything He says.

You could at least be honest with yourself about Jesus being son and god, even as you believe.

Otherwise, you are simply hiding what you believe, that Jesus is not God, but a god, because you are ashamed of it.

 

[robert derrick]

The early Christians got it right about God and Jesus being two separate identities-
"Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.' Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)
"Jesus..has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)

True. They are both God, even as Thomas declared: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The reason idolaters can't say that, is because they don't know Him.

The reason they don't know Him still, is obviously because they prefer idolatry to worshipping Him as God.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols.