Jesus Is God: Part 1

[Curtis]

Who is the proper Interpreter to provide the proper translation?

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:26-28

It is, I believe, the Holy Spirit and certainly it is in that way that God speaks through a man. Going to school or schooling oneself in the original languages can be a good tool, but without the real Interpreter, would not silence be a better thing?

That interpreter there is for tongues - totally out of context for interpreting the meaning of the NT MSS.

Words have meanings and languages have rules of grammar and interpretation, just as yiu are using right now to interpret the very words you’re reading.

 

[amadeus]

That interpreter there is for tongues - totally out of context for interpreting the meaning of the NT MSS.

Words have meanings and languages have rules of grammar and interpretation, just as yiu are using right now to interpret the very words you’re reading.

I will not so limit the Interpreter to speaking in tongues.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Greetings all.

I have a day or two off, and I was browsing the site and noticed we still have a lot of non-Trinitarians posting. So after looking into a few things I thought I would post something on the issue. As God wills, I will post additional parts to this series, but for now let me start with a passage where I think the non-Trinitarian argument isn't well supported.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

First the verse: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. John 17:5)

Now, quoting from Biblical Unitarian, here is their argument concerning this verse:

1. There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person or in God’s foreknowledge, “in the mind of God?” Both Christ and the corporate be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God’s foreknowledge before being alive. Christ was the “logos,” the “plan” of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived. It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God. When 2 Timothy 1:9 says that each Christian was given grace “before the beginning of time,” no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were “in the mind of God,” i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ. His glory was “with the Father” before the world began, and in John 17:5 he prayed that it would come into manifestation.

2. Jesus was praying that he would have the glory the Old Testament foretold, which had been in the mind of God, the Father, since before the world began, and would come into concretion. Trinitarians, however, teach that Jesus was praying about glory he had with God many years before his birth...
____________________
The problem with this argument is that Jesus in no uncertain terms asks to be clothed with the glory He had with the Father before the world began, not some glory that was "in the mind of God" before the world began. This is adding to the text to support a doctrinal bias.

I agree that a person's doctrines should not be formed out of doctrinal bias, as the author himself admitted when he stated, "It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God." But he is committing the very sin he is accusing others of. The word ought to be read for what it says, not what it has to be manipulated into saying in order to suit someone's preconceived notions.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

Jehovah's witnesses have always stated that before the Only Begotten Son of God became human and was sent to the world of mankind by God, that the Only Begotten Son of God was a separate spirit person with God in heaven. Jehovah's witnesses do believe that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word, meaning that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Almighty God's spokesman, this was and is the Only Begotten Son of God function after other intelligent creatures were brought into existence. The scriptures do show the Word is used as a title.(John 1:1, 14; Revelation 19:13) The Apostle John identified the one whom this title belongs, namely, Jesus, he being so designated not only during his ministry on Earth as a perfect man but also during his prehuman spirit existence as well as after exaltation to heaven.
Anyone having a problem with the Only Begotten Son of God being called a god seem to forget that the judges of Israel were called God's.(Psalms 82:6; John 10:34) Satan the devil is said to be the god of this world. At John 1:1 the Emphatic Diaglott reads: "In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God." The question I ask myself, why does the Diaglott spell the first occurrence of the word, "God" with all capital letters (GOD) but the second occurrence of the word, "God" with the first letter "G" a capital letter, but the other two letters, "od" are lowercased letters.(God) The translator doesn't do that for no reason at all. I believe this translation supports the fact that the Only Begotten Son of God is a god who was with the Almighty God. The Only Begotten Son of God literally existed as a separate spirit person with The Almighty God, before he became human. The fact that the Apostle John describes Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. The scriptures show that the Logos who is the Only Begotten Son of God was in the beginning with The Almighty God before this world. At that time before the Only Begotten Son of God became human, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."(1John 4:9)

 

[robert derrick]

Jehovah's witnesses have always stated that before the Only Begotten Son of God became human and was sent to the world of mankind by God, that the Only Begotten Son of God was a separate spirit person with God in heaven. Jehovah's witnesses do believe that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word, meaning that the Only Begotten Son of God is the Almighty God's spokesman, this was and is the Only Begotten Son of God function after other intelligent creatures were brought into existence. The scriptures do show the Word is used as a title.(John 1:1, 14; Revelation 19:13) The Apostle John identified the one whom this title belongs, namely, Jesus, he being so designated not only during his ministry on Earth as a perfect man but also during his prehuman spirit existence as well as after exaltation to heaven.
Anyone having a problem with the Only Begotten Son of God being called a god seem to forget that the judges of Israel were called God's.(Psalms 82:6; John 10:34) Satan the devil is said to be the god of this world. At John 1:1 the Emphatic Diaglott reads: "In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God." The question I ask myself, why does the Diaglott spell the first occurrence of the word, "God" with all capital letters (GOD) but the second occurrence of the word, "God" with the first letter "G" a capital letter, but the other two letters, "od" are lowercased letters.(God) The translator doesn't do that for no reason at all. I believe this translation supports the fact that the Only Begotten Son of God is a god who was with the Almighty God. The Only Begotten Son of God literally existed as a separate spirit person with The Almighty God, before he became human. The fact that the Apostle John describes Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. The scriptures show that the Logos who is the Only Begotten Son of God was in the beginning with The Almighty God before this world. At that time before the Only Begotten Son of God became human, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."(1John 4:9)

The scriptures do show the Word is used as a title.

True, even as the Father and the Holy Ghosts are used as titles for God, which makes such titles for God meaningless:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The Word was a Person from the beginning, even as God and the Spirit:

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.

The scriptures show that the Logos who is the Only Begotten Son of God was in the beginning with The Almighty God before this world. At that time before the Only Begotten Son of God became human, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."

The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Not 'just' with God, which you leave out on purpose. Why?

And the Word was with God and was God in the beginning of creation, when the worlds were made.

The Word was never spoken of as the only begotten Son, until He came into the world as flesh, which was at the birth of His body of a woman.

Neither was God ever referred to as His Father, until the Son was made flesh.

Trying to parse out of Scripture some significant difference between the Father and the Son, is the same as trying to parse obedience away from faith: they don't exist in Scripture.

He was the only begotten of the Father, because He was the only God to be made flesh, and so the Word was made flesh, which the first Adam was not, but was only called the son of God.

The One true God Being God from everlasting became Three Being God in the beginning of creation, the Word Being with God and was God, and became God in the flesh sent of God on the throne, so that the Son of God was on earth, while God the Father was on the throne:

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!

Jesus' tabernacle was not built of man and woman, but was the tabernacle that the Spirit pitched into the woman, to house the Word who dwelt among men.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

robert rerrick said:
The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Not 'just' with God, which you leave out on purpose. Why?[/QUOTE\]

I wasn't trying to quote John 1:1 for one reason. All I was trying to show from the scriptures is that at 1John 4:9 this scripture shows that in the state or form that the person we call Jesus today was in, before he became human, that he was the Only-Begotten Son of God. Meaning he was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was in heaven with God before he became human, he was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was human with mankind, and now that he has been resurrected from the dead and been changed to a powerful immortal spiritual being who has inherited incorruption and that everything and everyone except his Father who is God has been made subject to him, Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.
I'm not going to deny it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and came to mankind. So when the scripture at John 1:14 says the Word became flesh(human) it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human). Those Who choose to deny this by how they choose to believe that's their choice. However I'm not going to agree with them nor help them teach such a doctrine. It's written down in scriptures at John 3:16 that to get eternal life, you must believe that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind. The scriptures don't say that God sent himself. Jesus himself says at John 17:3 that there's two persons you must come to know to get eternal life, "the Only True God, and the one he sent forth, Jesus Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

robert rerrick said:
The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Not 'just' with God, which you leave out on purpose. Why?[/QUOTE\]

I wasn't trying to quote John 1:1 for one reason. All I was trying to show from the scriptures is that at 1John 4:9 this scripture shows that in the state or form that the person we call Jesus today was in, before he became human, that he was the Only-Begotten Son of God. Meaning he was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was in heaven with God before he became human, he was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was human with mankind, and now that he has been resurrected from the dead and been changed to a powerful immortal spiritual being who has inherited incorruption and that everything and everyone except his Father who is God has been made subject to him, Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.
I'm not going to deny it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and came to mankind. So when the scripture at John 1:14 says the Word became flesh(human) it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human). Those Who choose to deny this by how they choose to believe that's their choice. However I'm not going to agree with them nor help them teach such a doctrine. It's written down in scriptures at John 3:16 that to get eternal life, you must believe that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind. The scriptures don't say that God sent himself. Jesus himself says at John 17:3 that there's two persons you must come to know to get eternal life, "the Only True God, and the one he sent forth, Jesus Christ.

The scriptures don't say that God sent himself.

Ok, I wasn't sure, which is why I was asking why you leave out the Word was God before He was made flesh, and so was God in the flesh.

Instead, you are of the carnal mind that demands Scripture say 'God sent Himself'. Which is learned to be true by the Father sent the Son, and the Son came down from heaven in obedience to the Father.

This scripture shows that in the state or form that the person we call Jesus today was in.

Why do the created christs so love to speak of Scriptural things so 'mystically'?

We call Jesus by His name: Jesus. Whose name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah.

The 'state or form' of Jesus was flesh. Which was as a male, not a female.

And the Person He was in the flesh, is the same Person He was in the beginning, and is the same Person He is today: the Person of God, which the Son is the exact image, and has never changed: His Being is always the same, yesterday, toady, and forever.

I'm not going to deny it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and came to mankind.

Neither does Scripture, when He came into the world: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Which only in the days of His flesh was He first called such: So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was in heaven with God before he became human.

And this is not Scripture. No Scripture speaks of the begotten Son as being called such in heaven, before being the begotten Son on earth. He was only called Christ by Scripture, confirming the covenant with Abraham before the law (Gal 3:17), and as that Rock following in the wilderness.

No Scripture speaks of the God the Father, nor the Son of God, except in prophecy, until the fullness of time to fulfill prophecy.

And now that he has been resurrected from the dead and been changed to a powerful immortal spiritual being.

And so here we have the reason for mysticizing Scripture: His Being was 'changed', and not just His body, so that He cannot have been God, whose Being changes not.

No Scripture speak of Jesus Christ ever being 'changed' by God. He was resurrected in body, not in soul: He was not the forerunner of being 'born again'.

Jesus Christ was the same Being and Person yesterday, today, and forever. He was the Word that was God in the beginning, and He was the Word that was God in the flesh, and He is the Word that is God in heaven, resurrected bodily to sit with God now on the right hand.

Like the mouth of the beast, they speak things so greatly and fawningly, while teaching their lies:

"Oh, Jesus Christ, thou art such a powerful...immortal....spiritual being now! Just look at you, after God has changed you into something so wonderful!! Just to think! You that were only human and mortal being is now made by God so divine!!!"

Sounds like His Mother Mary of God, gloating over Her Son that the Father created for Her, and then changed for Her.

Jesus Christ is not the new demigod Herakles, made divine after his death, because he was such a great hero son of Zeus.

I still get bits and pieces of the heresy to know it more certainly. And as always they are so creative about it, which makes sense. I mean if they can create an entire christ out of nothing, then...

 

[robert derrick]

There is always one or two Scripture to prove doctrine of Christ, that unbelievers must twist in meaning, change by 'translation', or do away with by 'manuscript'.

In Christ Being God in the flesh, there are already several: The Word was God, and the Word was made flesh. The Son of God is the true God and eternal life. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one in heaven.

Here is some more: The Light.

He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

And so, Jesus Christ is that true Light, the Light of life, the Light of God's glory:

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Scripture does not say Christ is the shining of the Light of God, nor the reflection of His glory, but is The Light, and God is Light, and so the man Christ Jesus is the God that is Light, in whom is no darkness at all, and them that walk in Him, that is the true Light, walk not in darkness.

Jesus Christ is the true Light, the true God, who is that true Light.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The scriptures don't say that God sent himself.

Ok, I wasn't sure, which is why I was asking why you leave out the Word was God before He was made flesh, and so was God in the flesh.

Instead, you are of the carnal mind that demands Scripture say 'God sent Himself'. Which is learned to be true by the Father sent the Son, and the Son came down from heaven in obedience to the Father.

This scripture shows that in the state or form that the person we call Jesus today was in.

Why do the created christs so love to speak of Scriptural things so 'mystically'?

We call Jesus by His name: Jesus. Whose name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah.

The 'state or form' of Jesus was flesh. Which was as a male, not a female.

And the Person He was in the flesh, is the same Person He was in the beginning, and is the same Person He is today: the Person of God, which the Son is the exact image, and has never changed: His Being is always the same, yesterday, toady, and forever.

I'm not going to deny it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and came to mankind.

Neither does Scripture, when He came into the world: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Which only in the days of His flesh was He first called such: So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was in heaven with God before he became human.

And this is not Scripture. No Scripture speaks of the begotten Son as being called such in heaven, before being the begotten Son on earth. He was only called Christ by Scripture, confirming the covenant with Abraham before the law (Gal 3:17), and as that Rock following in the wilderness.

No Scripture speaks of the God the Father, nor the Son of God, except in prophecy, until the fullness of time to fulfill prophecy.

And now that he has been resurrected from the dead and been changed to a powerful immortal spiritual being.

And so here we have the reason for mysticizing Scripture: His Being was 'changed', and not just His body, so that He cannot have been God, whose Being changes not.

No Scripture speak of Jesus Christ ever being 'changed' by God. He was resurrected in body, not in soul: He was not the forerunner of being 'born again'.

Jesus Christ was the same Being and Person yesterday, today, and forever. He was the Word that was God in the beginning, and He was the Word that was God in the flesh, and He is the Word that is God in heaven, resurrected bodily to sit with God now on the right hand.

Like the mouth of the beast, they speak things so greatly and fawningly, while teaching their lies:

"Oh, Jesus Christ, thou art such a powerful...immortal....spiritual being now! Just look at you, after God has changed you into something so wonderful!! Just to think! You that were only human and mortal being is now made by God so divine!!!"

Sounds like His Mother Mary of God, gloating over Her Son that the Father created for Her, and then changed for Her.

Jesus Christ is not the new demigod Herakles, made divine after his death, because he was such a great hero son of Zeus.

I still get bits and pieces of the heresy to know it more certainly. And as always they are so creative about it, which makes sense. I mean if they can create an entire christ out of nothing, then...

What you think of me is of no concern to me, you're just an imperfect person like anyone else. Just because you think or say someone is of the carnal mind doesn't mean they are, like I said you're just a imperfect version like everyone else. What I said is true nowhere in the scriptures does it say God sent himself, but instead scripture says God sent his Only Begotten Son. That's what I believe John 3:16. I'm not going to deny this scripture. God didn't send himself he sent his Only Begotten Son.

You saying "Jesus name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah."
How about you or anyone else for that matter show me where God gave you permission to take his name YHWH out of scripture. Plus

 

[robert derrick]

What you think of me is of no concern to me, you're just an imperfect person like anyone else. Just because you think or say someone is of the carnal mind doesn't mean they are, like I said you're just a imperfect version like everyone else. What I said is true nowhere in the scriptures does it say God sent himself, but instead scripture says God sent his Only Begotten Son. That's what I believe John 3:16. I'm not going to deny this scripture. God didn't send himself he sent his Only Begotten Son.

You saying "Jesus name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah."
How about you or anyone else for that matter show me where God gave you permission to take his name YHWH out of scripture. Plus

Just because you think or say someone is of the carnal mind doesn't mean they are.

I don't just say you are carnal minded. I prove it by Scripture according to the words you speak to show it:

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Which you continue to demonstrate.

Scripture says God the Father sent God the Word, and so the Word came down from heaven to be made flesh and was thus called the Son of God.

The carnal minded make up silly retorts like "God didn't send Himself!!" in order to reject Scripture.

Created christs are carnal minded idolaters of a jehovah that never was the LORD Jehovah, but rather is the name for 'a God' of their own minds.

Meanwhile they give phony lip service to a created christ and 'Lord' that is not really LORD.

Them that believed the LORD Jehovah by the faith of Abraham are brethren to them that believe the Lord Jesus with the faith of Abraham, who was Jehovah in the flesh, and now is the risen God of Israel, of whose day Abraham and the prophets were glad to see.

How about you or anyone else for that matter show me where God gave you permission to take his name YHWH out of scripture.

YHWH SCHMYHWH. I could care less about people posing as 'reverential' of the name of the Lord by using stupid acronyms made for God, that were thought up by their carnal minded unbelieving fathers of old, who slew the LORD in the days of His flesh, because He didn't 'respect' their stupid traditions.

The same bozos that came up with 'YHWH' had as much reverence for the LORD Christ as they did His prophets, whom they slew and then garnished their sepulchers.

God Almighty Jehovah and Jesus Christ never in Scripture said no man could speak His name, lest they die. That is just mystical gibberish of the carnal minded.

Jesus name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah.

You reject this simple truth of Scripture to idolize a name that is no longer named for the risen God of Israel.

The name of Jehovah is nowhere spoken in Scripture, after being named Jesus come in the flesh.

It is not Jehovah in whose name the Gentiles trust, but Jesus.

Stop idolizing the name 'jehovah', and start worshipping Jesus as who He is: the LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Just because you think or say someone is of the carnal mind doesn't mean they are.

I don't just say you are carnal minded. I prove it by Scripture according to the words you speak to show it:

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Which you continue to demonstrate.

Scripture says God the Father sent God the Word, and so the Word came down from heaven to be made flesh and was thus called the Son of God.

The carnal minded make up silly retorts like "God didn't send Himself!!" in order to reject Scripture.

Created christs are carnal minded idolaters of a jehovah that never was the LORD Jehovah, but rather is the name for 'a God' of their own minds.

Meanwhile they give phony lip service to a created christ and 'Lord' that is not really LORD.

Them that believed the LORD Jehovah by the faith of Abraham are brethren to them that believe the Lord Jesus with the faith of Abraham, who was Jehovah in the flesh, and now is the risen God of Israel, of whose day Abraham and the prophets were glad to see.

How about you or anyone else for that matter show me where God gave you permission to take his name YHWH out of scripture.

YHWH SCHMYHWH. I could care less about people posing as 'reverential' of the name of the Lord by using stupid acronyms made for God, that were thought up by their carnal minded unbelieving fathers of old, who slew the LORD in the days of His flesh, because He didn't 'respect' their stupid traditions.

The same bozos that came up with 'YHWH' had as much reverence for the LORD Christ as they did His prophets, whom they slew and then garnished their sepulchers.

God Almighty Jehovah and Jesus Christ never in Scripture said no man could speak His name, lest they die. That is just mystical gibberish of the carnal minded.

Jesus name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah.

You reject this simple truth of Scripture to idolize a name that is no longer named for the risen God of Israel.

The name of Jehovah is nowhere spoken in Scripture, after being named Jesus come in the flesh.

It is not Jehovah in whose name the Gentiles trust, but Jesus.

Stop idolizing the name 'jehovah', and start worshipping Jesus as who He is: the LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS.

I will continue to believe and tell people that Jehovah is the Only True God, that he is the Father and God of Jesus Christ. Jehovah's Only Begotten Son is the seed of promise that Jehovah God promised at Genesis 3:15 the Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ will undo all the horrible things the serpent has done, including sin and death.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Just because you think or say someone is of the carnal mind doesn't mean they are.

I don't just say you are carnal minded. I prove it by Scripture according to the words you speak to show it:

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Which you continue to demonstrate.

Scripture says God the Father sent God the Word, and so the Word came down from heaven to be made flesh and was thus called the Son of God.

The carnal minded make up silly retorts like "God didn't send Himself!!" in order to reject Scripture.

Created christs are carnal minded idolaters of a jehovah that never was the LORD Jehovah, but rather is the name for 'a God' of their own minds.

Meanwhile they give phony lip service to a created christ and 'Lord' that is not really LORD.

Them that believed the LORD Jehovah by the faith of Abraham are brethren to them that believe the Lord Jesus with the faith of Abraham, who was Jehovah in the flesh, and now is the risen God of Israel, of whose day Abraham and the prophets were glad to see.

How about you or anyone else for that matter show me where God gave you permission to take his name YHWH out of scripture.

YHWH SCHMYHWH. I could care less about people posing as 'reverential' of the name of the Lord by using stupid acronyms made for God, that were thought up by their carnal minded unbelieving fathers of old, who slew the LORD in the days of His flesh, because He didn't 'respect' their stupid traditions.

The same bozos that came up with 'YHWH' had as much reverence for the LORD Christ as they did His prophets, whom they slew and then garnished their sepulchers.

God Almighty Jehovah and Jesus Christ never in Scripture said no man could speak His name, lest they die. That is just mystical gibberish of the carnal minded.

Jesus name is above every name ever named of God, including Jehovah.

You reject this simple truth of Scripture to idolize a name that is no longer named for the risen God of Israel.

The name of Jehovah is nowhere spoken in Scripture, after being named Jesus come in the flesh.

It is not Jehovah in whose name the Gentiles trust, but Jesus.

Stop idolizing the name 'jehovah', and start worshipping Jesus as who He is: the LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS.

Those who believe Jesus is God instead of the Only Begotten Son of God I believe to be those to be carnal thinking people. The scripture at John 3:16, 17 says God sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind, this is what I believe, that's what scripture says and you call that carnal thinking, so be it. I however will continue to believe that God sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind, no matter how much anyone calls that carnal thinking.

The name YHWH, has always been in scripture. When Jesus was on earth the Septuagint was the scriptures used in his days on earth. YHWH is the personal name of God. Today in our century, three copies of the Septuagint scriptures have been found that have been dated to have existed during Jesus and his Apostles day and in every copy the name YHWH is found. Jesus never claimed to be YHWH. He always claimed YHWH was his Father. At John 17:3 Jesus says: "this is eternal life, that they might know you the only True God and Jesus Christ whom you sent. Jesus was praying to God when he said John 17:3, I believe since Jesus is praying to God then he's praying to YHWH. Who do you think Jesus is praying to if you believe Jesus is YHWH. Also why is it at John 20:17 that Jesus says he has a Father and God which is also his Apostles and disciples Father and God. Jesus said this after his resurrection. So if as you and others say that Jesus is YHWH are you saying Jesus is lying here at John 20:17. Me, I understand that the person Jesus is saying is his Father and God is YHWH. Also at John 1:14 where it says the Word was made flesh (became human) the Word is the Only Begotten Son of God, it was the Only Begotten Son of God who came to mankind as a human. People can deny this but I consider anyone who denies it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and was with mankind to believe and teach carnal thinking, because they obviously have no faith that God has an Only Begotten Son.

 

[Brakelite]

God has never explained the oneness of existence between Himself and His Son. It is a mystery known only to divinity. This is why we must never attempt to explain it. Even if God did provide an explanation, it would probably be beyond our comprehension to understand it. Can the finite comprehend the infinite? The Jews certainly realised though what Jesus was claiming. John recorded (this was after Jesus had said that He and His Father were one) “Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” John 10:31-33
There can be no mistaking as to what the Jews understood Jesus to be saying. It was that He was God (theos). To many of the Jews, particularly the Scribes and the Pharisees, this was “blasphemy”. If Christ had not been God then they would have been correct. The same reaction came when Jesus healed the impotent man on the Sabbath. John recorded (another of the signs to show that Christ was the Son of God) “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” John 5:16-18
Ppl lWe need to remember that John wrote his Gospel with the intent of proving Christ to be the Son of God (John 20:31) – which terminology means that Christ is God (John 1:1). We can see therefore why the Holy Spirit led this Gospel writer to select these discussions that Jesus had with the Jews. They tell us so much. They tell us how the Jews understood Christ’s words. Jesus though had not made Himself God. His existence as a separate person from God was by the pleasure of the Father (Colossians 1:19). The Jews called God their Father. They must have realised therefore that Jesus was not claiming this in the same sense as they were claiming it else they would not have condemned Him for it. They must have understood Him to be claiming God as His Father in a very literal sense. This is why they said He was making Himself equal with God. Jesus did not say they had misunderstood His words. In personality He was not the one true God (the Father) but He was manifesting God in the flesh. It is no wonder therefore that God led the prophet Isaiah to prophecy of the coming Messiah “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6

 

[Mayflower]

God has never explained the oneness of existence between Himself and His Son. It is a mystery known only to divinity. This is why we must never attempt to explain it. Even if God did provide an explanation, it would probably be beyond our comprehension to understand it. Can the finite comprehend the infinite? The Jews certainly realised though what Jesus was claiming. John recorded (this was after Jesus had said that He and His Father were one) “Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” John 10:31-33
There can be no mistaking as to what the Jews understood Jesus to be saying. It was that He was God (theos). To many of the Jews, particularly the Scribes and the Pharisees, this was “blasphemy”. If Christ had not been God then they would have been correct. The same reaction came when Jesus healed the impotent man on the Sabbath. John recorded (another of the signs to show that Christ was the Son of God) “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” John 5:16-18
Ppl lWe need to remember that John wrote his Gospel with the intent of proving Christ to be the Son of God (John 20:31) – which terminology means that Christ is God (John 1:1). We can see therefore why the Holy Spirit led this Gospel writer to select these discussions that Jesus had with the Jews. They tell us so much. They tell us how the Jews understood Christ’s words. Jesus though had not made Himself God. His existence as a separate person from God was by the pleasure of the Father (Colossians 1:19). The Jews called God their Father. They must have realised therefore that Jesus was not claiming this in the same sense as they were claiming it else they would not have condemned Him for it. They must have understood Him to be claiming God as His Father in a very literal sense. This is why they said He was making Himself equal with God. Jesus did not say they had misunderstood His words. In personality He was not the one true God (the Father) but He was manifesting God in the flesh. It is no wonder therefore that God led the prophet Isaiah to prophecy of the coming Messiah “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6

To me it proves the divinity of Christ and the Holy Trinity. The discussions almost can't be explained by itself otherwise, because Jesus is not the Father. But He is God.

 

[farouk]

To me it proves the divinity of Christ and the Holy Trinity. The discussions almost can't be explained by itself otherwise, because Jesus is not the Father. But He is God.

In John's Gospel and the Epistles, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are so deeply present.