Jesus Is Jehovah

[Christ4Me]

???

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That is what invisible means in scripture as meaning "not presently seen".

So being in the image of the invisible God, means the Father has an image not presently seen but one day we will when we are in Heaven.

Jesus said that in that day when we are in heaven, we will not need Jesus to ask the father for us but we can go directly to the Father in seeing Him to ask Him directly in Jesus's name.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

[Cooper]

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That is what invisible means in scripture as meaning "not presently seen".

So being in the image of the invisible God, means the Father has an image not presently seen but one day we will when we are in Heaven.

Jesus said that in that day when we are in heaven, we will not need Jesus to ask the father for us but we can go directly to the Father in seeing Him to ask Him directly in Jesus's name.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Calm down, take it steady, you are trying too hard. In the meantime, I shall put you on my ignore list.

 

[Christ4Me]

Calm down, take it steady, you are trying too hard. In the meantime, I shall put you on my ignore list.

Now sure why you seem to think I needed to calm down. I was not upset.

You had asked the question with ???

I had only emboldened the scriptures in part, only because I had shared them with you before and so obviously you had not noted it in reading it.

Otherwise, you would not have replied with "???" in following the discussion between you & me in this thread.

I leave it to God to cause the increase, but I was not upset, but answering your question marks, and making sure you saw in the scriptures why I was saying that.

Thanks for sharing anyway.

 

[JohnPaul]

The Lord Jehovah told Moses that He had appeared unto Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob as identifying as the God that is making this Covenant with Israel.

Exodus 6:1Then the Lord said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Jesus said that Abraham had seen Him in His day & that He had existed beyond that day as the I AM for why the Jews sought to stone Him for declaring He is God.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Did Jesus lie? No. He did not. It was Him that Abraham had seen & not the Father as He has said so twice below.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Now here is the elementary conclusion that needs no rocket science to arrive at.

This means Jesus was the Lord Jehovah that men had seen in the O.T., and not the Father.

Thank you for sharing, but the scripture aligns as the truth in His words that Jesus is the Lord Jehovah that had appeared unto men.

Sorry but Jesus is not Jehovah but his Son, his only begotten Son, why can't you and others understand this, why would the son need a father if he is one and the same, why would Christ say my Father if he is him?

 

[Robert Gwin]

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time.
God is Spirit and therefore invisible. He does not have a body. Although He did appear to men in the OT in visible form as an Angel or as a Man, these appearances did not reveal what God is really like. They were merely temporary appearances by which He chose to speak to His people.

The Lord Jesus is in the bosom of the Father, i.e. not separate from him.
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I agree fully with your first paragraph Cooper, but not sure of the second, which seems to indicate to you that you believe Jesus and Jehovah are the same person, am I misreading you sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Why was the request made for man to be after our image and after our likeness unless the Father has a celestial body that can be seen too?

Since Jesus is the Jehovah that men had seen in the O.T. and Jesus said no man had seen the Father, then our image is the image of God the Father also and not Jesus before His incarnation.

The Lord that appeared unto Abraham, did eat and drank what Abraham had prepared for Him. Genesis 18:1-8

Therefore a celestial body that can become tangible as God can do anything, but it does testify to the image of God we were created after.

We believe that in accounts where Jehovah appears to humans, He is doing so through sent representatives and not in person. I am one of Jehovah's representatives, but of course I do not go to others stating I am Jehovah, but I do reveal that I am one of His witnesses. We bear the name of Jehovah, but none of us believe that Jehovah has had personal interaction with humans. It is possible that He did with Adam, but the account is not clear enough to reveal, nor if it was even possible.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Could it not be that Jesus already had eyes able to see God as in the "then" of the following verse?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor. 13:12

The writer speaks of "we", which could include you @Robert Gwin and me, Amadeus, as seeing now, but still only in part. Are we not to be working toward or to be growing toward that "then" or that "face to face" vision?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

All Christians see God through eyes of faith, not literally. We do not believe any human has literally seen God. At this time I do not know if a perfect human can see God and yet live, that is a possibility, and no doubt those who go to heaven will see Him, but I am not able to document scripturally if we who reside on the earth will ever be able to. That is something we will have to find out when and if God chooses to reveal it Amad.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Rom_6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom_8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eph_4:32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ has forgiven you.
Php_3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus.
1Th_2:14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews,
1Th_5:18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Everyone in the presence of Jesus was in the presence of Almighty God. He is "God with us."
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No sir, Jesus is God's only begotten son, believe it or not. Jn 3:16 Jehovah does not have a God, matter of fact He will not have any gods in front of His face. Ex 20:3

 

[Cooper]

I agree fully with your first paragraph Cooper, but not sure of the second, which seems to indicate to you that you believe Jesus and Jehovah are the same person, am I misreading you sir?

You are correct, I believe in One omnipresent God, and that Jesus is God with us here on earth.
.

 

[Cooper]

No sir, Jesus is God's only begotten son, believe it or not. Jn 3:16 Jehovah does not have a God, matter of fact He will not have any gods in front of His face. Ex 20:3

The fact that Yahweh will not have any other gods in front of his face, means Jesus is Yahweh and not any other god.

 

[Cooper]

No sir, Jesus is God's only begotten son, believe it or not. Jn 3:16 Jehovah does not have a God, matter of fact He will not have any gods in front of His face. Ex 20:3

I have my Father in me and so do you. The Father In Jesus equals "God with us."
.

 

[Christ4Me]

Sorry but Jesus is not Jehovah but his Son, his only begotten Son, why can't you and others understand this, why would the son need a father if he is one and the same, why would Christ say my Father if he is him?

The name of Jehovah was never the specific name of the Father, but the Lord God that had appeared unto Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & Moses which was Jesus before his incarnation since no man had seen God the Father at any time; John 1:18 & John 6:46

Scriptures testified of Jesus & Moses had written of Him

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....... 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So what did Moses have written about Jesus? What scriptures testifies of Him as written by Moses?

Why did Jesus said that Abraham had seen Him in His day? Why did the Jews tried to stone Him?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The only answer is that Jesus was the God Jehovah men had seen in the O.T. that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & Moses. Reread the OP.

 

[Christ4Me]

We believe that in accounts where Jehovah appears to humans, He is doing so through sent representatives and not in person. I am one of Jehovah's representatives, but of course I do not go to others stating I am Jehovah, but I do reveal that I am one of His witnesses. We bear the name of Jehovah, but none of us believe that Jehovah has had personal interaction with humans. It is possible that He did with Adam, but the account is not clear enough to reveal, nor if it was even possible.

Genesis 8:1-8 has the Lord that appeared unto Abraham that day as eating and drinking what Abraham had provided for Him. Reads to me as in person.

Indeed, Jacob wrestled with a man and had seen the Lord face to face. Genesis 32:24-30 Sounds like an in person encounter too.

 

[amadeus]

All Christians see God through eyes of faith, not literally. We do not believe any human has literally seen God. At this time I do not know if a perfect human can see God and yet live, that is a possibility, and no doubt those who go to heaven will see Him, but I am not able to document scripturally if we who reside on the earth will ever be able to. That is something we will have to find out when and if God chooses to reveal it Amad.

While I do appreciate your reply I must say that I am careful on the usage of the word, "literally". It often, I believe, conveys the wrong meaning or a distorted meaning when we are talking about God and the things of God. Without clarification for me it muddies the waters of communication.

Normally, I do not believe anyone can see God with the two natural eyeballs located in the forward part of our heads. The "eyes to see" in scripture would be the "eyes of faith" you mention or the vision by means of the Holy Spirit in a man. In the very beginning of our walk with God we have that vision, but it is very dim or blurry or as through a glass darkly.

As a person grows closer to God, learning through the scriptures, the Holy Spirit and communication with God, his vision by faith, or spiritual vision, is increasing. That increase should continue for as long as we have time. The danger I see for a believer is when having initially received such vision he then sits back instead continuing the seek the face of God.

 

[JohnPaul]

The name of Jehovah was never the specific name of the Father, but the Lord God that had appeared unto Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & Moses which was Jesus before his incarnation since no man had seen God the Father at any time; John 1:18 & John 6:46

Scriptures testified of Jesus & Moses had written of Him

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....... 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So what did Moses have written about Jesus? What scriptures testifies of Him as written by Moses?

Why did Jesus said that Abraham had seen Him in His day? Why did the Jews tried to stone Him?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The only answer is that Jesus was the God Jehovah men had seen in the O.T. that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & Moses. Reread the OP.

Because Christ is the Son who had already been created by Jehovah, from the beginning before Earth and everything was created Jesus was already in existence, and seated at the right hand of his father Jehovah.

 

[Cooper]

Because Christ is the Son who had already been created by Jehovah, from the beginning before Earth and everything was created Jesus was already in existence, and seated at the right hand of his father Jehovah.

Just a slight correction if I may, very few people seem to understand the Virgin birth. Jesus is the Word, the alpha and omega, meaning the beginning and the end. It is Jesus who, as the Word created the heavens and the earth, he was there in the beginning. He (the Word) became the Father when Mary's boy child was born, and then the Word, God with us on earth, was called Jesus on earth, while still being the Word in heaven. Only the name is different, Yahweh or Jehovah in heaven, and Jesus on earth. Regardless of the name, it is One God.

 

[Christ4Me]

Because Christ is the Son who had already been created by Jehovah, from the beginning before Earth and everything was created Jesus was already in existence, and seated at the right hand of his father Jehovah.

@Cooper

But God said there is none beside Him.

Isaiah 45:21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Yet Jesus said this at His trial for why He was to be crucified.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

God also said He will not share His glory as Savior with any other.

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Yet Jesus said this to the apostle John in the Book of Revelation;

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

So if Jehovah is the actual name of God the Father, then why is the name of Jesus above the name of Jehovah but yet still giving glory to God the Father by exalting the name of His Son?

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You are correct, I believe in One omnipresent God, and that Jesus is God with us here on earth.
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May I ask you Coop; who is the God of Jesus according to the Bible?

 

[Robert Gwin]

You are correct, I believe in One omnipresent God, and that Jesus is God with us here on earth.
.

The Bible teaches that God is not Omnipresent sir, He has a residence: God is able to see everything and to act anywhere he chooses. (Proverbs 15:3; Hebrews 4:13) However, the Bible does not teach that God is omnipresent—that is, present everywhere, in all things. Instead, it shows that he is a person and that he resides in a dwelling place.
● God’s form: God is a spirit person. (John 4:24) He is invisible to humans. (John 1:18) Visions of God recorded in the Bible consistently portray him as having a distinct location. He is never depicted as existing everywhere.—Isaiah 6:1, 2; Revelation 4:2, 3, 8.
● God’s dwelling place: God resides in the spirit realm, which is distinct from physical creation. Within that realm, God has a “dwelling place in the heavens.” (1 Kings 8:30) The Bible mentions an occasion when spirit creatures “entered to take their station before Jehovah,” showing that in a sense, God resides at a specific location.—Job 1:6.
Misconception: God is present everywhere in creation.
Fact: God dwells neither on the earth nor elsewhere in the physical universe. (1 Kings 8:27) It is true that the stars and other creative works “are declaring the glory of God.” (Psalm 19:1) However, God does not inhabit his creation any more than an artist lives in his painting. Still, a painting can tell us something about the artist who made it. Similarly, the visible world tells us about the Creator’s “invisible qualities,” such as his power, wisdom, and love.—Romans 1:20.
Misconception: God must be omnipresent in order to know all things and be all-powerful.
Fact: God’s holy spirit, or active force, is God’s power in action. Through his holy spirit, God can perceive and do anything, anywhere, at any time, without being present in person.—Psalm 139:7.
Misconception: Psalm 139:8 teaches that God is omnipresent by saying: “If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there, and if I were to make my bed in the Grave, look! you would be there.”
Fact: This scripture is not talking about God’s location. It poetically teaches that no place is too remote for God to act in our behalf.
Hope that helps sir

 

[Robert Gwin]

The fact that Yahweh will not have any other gods in front of his face, means Jesus is Yahweh and not any other god.

Commented on this in another place sir