Jesus Is Jehovah

[Robert Gwin]

I have my Father in me and so do you. The Father In Jesus equals "God with us."
.

May I ask who's voice was heard at Jesus' baptism?
(Matthew 3:17) . . .a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

Did not Jesus say a bit later that God was a spirit at Jn 4:24?

So what does the Bible really teach sir?

 

[Cooper]

Commented on this in another place sir

Clearly not a memorable post.

 

[Cooper]

The Bible teaches that God is not Omnipresent sir, He has a residence: God is able to see everything and to act anywhere he chooses. (Proverbs 15:3; Hebrews 4:13) However, the Bible does not teach that God is omnipresent—that is, present everywhere, in all things. Instead, it shows that he is a person and that he resides in a dwelling place.
● God’s form: God is a spirit person. (John 4:24) He is invisible to humans. (John 1:18) Visions of God recorded in the Bible consistently portray him as having a distinct location. He is never depicted as existing everywhere.—Isaiah 6:1, 2; Revelation 4:2, 3, 8.
● God’s dwelling place: God resides in the spirit realm, which is distinct from physical creation. Within that realm, God has a “dwelling place in the heavens.” (1 Kings 8:30) The Bible mentions an occasion when spirit creatures “entered to take their station before Jehovah,” showing that in a sense, God resides at a specific location.—Job 1:6.
Misconception: God is present everywhere in creation.
Fact: God dwells neither on the earth nor elsewhere in the physical universe. (1 Kings 8:27) It is true that the stars and other creative works “are declaring the glory of God.” (Psalm 19:1) However, God does not inhabit his creation any more than an artist lives in his painting. Still, a painting can tell us something about the artist who made it. Similarly, the visible world tells us about the Creator’s “invisible qualities,” such as his power, wisdom, and love.—Romans 1:20.
Misconception: God must be omnipresent in order to know all things and be all-powerful.
Fact: God’s holy spirit, or active force, is God’s power in action. Through his holy spirit, God can perceive and do anything, anywhere, at any time, without being present in person.—Psalm 139:7.
Misconception: Psalm 139:8 teaches that God is omnipresent by saying: “If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there, and if I were to make my bed in the Grave, look! you would be there.”
Fact: This scripture is not talking about God’s location. It poetically teaches that no place is too remote for God to act in our behalf.
Hope that helps sir

Apart from being very negative, you contradict yourself.

 

[Cooper]

May I ask who's voice was heard at Jesus' baptism?
(Matthew 3:17) . . .a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

Did not Jesus say a bit later that God was a spirit at Jn 4:24?

So what does the Bible really teach sir?

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(Matthew 3:16-17 KJV)

Verse 16 tells us the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus like a dove. Then the Father said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

There we have the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are present throughout the Bible. The Trinity is an incontrovertible fact.
.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Genesis 8:1-8 has the Lord that appeared unto Abraham that day as eating and drinking what Abraham had provided for Him. Reads to me as in person.

Indeed, Jacob wrestled with a man and had seen the Lord face to face. Genesis 32:24-30 Sounds like an in person encounter too.

Yes it does, but we don't think the Bible contradicts itself, if it does then there is no basis for truth. Jn 1:18 clearly and understandably states no man has ever seen God. So how can this be explained:
Has Anyone Ever Seen God?
The Bible’s answer
No human has literally seen God. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) The Bible says that “God is a Spirit,” a form of life that is invisible to the human eye.—John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17.
God can be seen directly by angels, though, because they are spirit creatures. (Matthew 18:10) Moreover, some humans who die will be raised to life in heaven with a spirit body and will then be able to see God.—Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 John 3:2.
How to “see” God now
The Bible often uses the idea of seeing figuratively, to represent enlightenment. (Isaiah 6:10; Jeremiah 5:21; John 9:39-41) In this sense, a person can see God now with “the eyes of [his] heart” by having faith so as to know Him and appreciate His qualities. (Ephesians 1:18) The Bible describes steps to build this kind of faith.
● Learn about God’s qualities, such as his love and generosity as well as his wisdom and power, through his creation. (Romans 1:20) After being reminded of God’s creative works, the faithful man Job felt as though God were right before his eyes.—Job 42:5.
● Get to know God by studying the Bible. “If you search for [God], he will let himself be found by you,” the Bible assures us.—1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalm 119:2; John 17:3.
● Learn about God through the life of Jesus. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, Jehovah God, he could rightly say: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.”—John 14:9.
● Live in a way that pleases God, and see how he acts in your behalf. Jesus said: “Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.” As noted earlier, some who please God will be resurrected to heaven and will thus “see God” there.—Matthew 5:8; Psalm 11:7.
Did not Moses, Abraham, and others actually see God?
In accounts where it might seem that the Bible says that humans literally saw God, the context shows that God was represented by an angel or appeared by means of a vision.
Angels. In ancient times, God sent angels as his representatives to appear to humans and to speak in his name. (Psalm 103:20) For example, God once spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and the Bible says that “Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at the true God.” (Exodus 3:4, 6) Moses did not literally see God, though, for the context shows that he actually saw “Jehovah’s angel.”—Exodus 3:2.
Similarly, when the Bible says that God “spoke to Moses face-to-face,” it means that God conversed with Moses intimately. (Exodus 4:10, 11; 33:11) Moses did not actually see God’s face, for the information he received from God “was transmitted through angels.” (Galatians 3:19; Acts 7:53) Still, Moses’ faith in God was so strong that the Bible described him as “seeing the One who is invisible.”—Hebrews 11:27.
In the same way that he spoke to Moses, God communicated with Abraham through angels. Granted, a casual reading of the Bible might give the impression that Abraham literally saw God. (Genesis 18:1, 33) However, the context shows that the “three men” who came to Abraham were actually angels sent by God. Abraham recognized them as God’s representatives and addressed them as if he were speaking directly to Jehovah.—Genesis 18:2, 3, 22, 32; 19:1.
Visions. God has also appeared to humans through visions, or scenes presented to a person’s mind. For instance, when the Bible says that Moses and other Israelites “saw the God of Israel,” they really “saw a vision of the true God.” (Exodus 24:9-11) Likewise, the Bible sometimes says that prophets “saw Jehovah.” (Isaiah 6:1; Daniel 7:9; Amos 9:1) In each case, the context shows that they were given a vision of God rather than a direct view of him.—Isaiah 1:1; Daniel 7:2; Amos 1:1.

 

[Cooper]

Yes it does, but we don't think the Bible contradicts itself, if it does then there is no basis for truth. Jn 1:18 clearly and understandably states no man has ever seen God. So how can this be explained:
Has Anyone Ever Seen God?
The Bible’s answer
No human has literally seen God. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) The Bible says that “God is a Spirit,” a form of life that is invisible to the human eye.—John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17.
God can be seen directly by angels, though, because they are spirit creatures. (Matthew 18:10) Moreover, some humans who die will be raised to life in heaven with a spirit body and will then be able to see God.—Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 John 3:2.
How to “see” God now
The Bible often uses the idea of seeing figuratively, to represent enlightenment. (Isaiah 6:10; Jeremiah 5:21; John 9:39-41) In this sense, a person can see God now with “the eyes of [his] heart” by having faith so as to know Him and appreciate His qualities. (Ephesians 1:18) The Bible describes steps to build this kind of faith.
● Learn about God’s qualities, such as his love and generosity as well as his wisdom and power, through his creation. (Romans 1:20) After being reminded of God’s creative works, the faithful man Job felt as though God were right before his eyes.—Job 42:5.
● Get to know God by studying the Bible. “If you search for [God], he will let himself be found by you,” the Bible assures us.—1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalm 119:2; John 17:3.
● Learn about God through the life of Jesus. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, Jehovah God, he could rightly say: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.”—John 14:9.
● Live in a way that pleases God, and see how he acts in your behalf. Jesus said: “Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.” As noted earlier, some who please God will be resurrected to heaven and will thus “see God” there.—Matthew 5:8; Psalm 11:7.
Did not Moses, Abraham, and others actually see God?
In accounts where it might seem that the Bible says that humans literally saw God, the context shows that God was represented by an angel or appeared by means of a vision.
Angels. In ancient times, God sent angels as his representatives to appear to humans and to speak in his name. (Psalm 103:20) For example, God once spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and the Bible says that “Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at the true God.” (Exodus 3:4, 6) Moses did not literally see God, though, for the context shows that he actually saw “Jehovah’s angel.”—Exodus 3:2.
Similarly, when the Bible says that God “spoke to Moses face-to-face,” it means that God conversed with Moses intimately. (Exodus 4:10, 11; 33:11) Moses did not actually see God’s face, for the information he received from God “was transmitted through angels.” (Galatians 3:19; Acts 7:53) Still, Moses’ faith in God was so strong that the Bible described him as “seeing the One who is invisible.”—Hebrews 11:27.
In the same way that he spoke to Moses, God communicated with Abraham through angels. Granted, a casual reading of the Bible might give the impression that Abraham literally saw God. (Genesis 18:1, 33) However, the context shows that the “three men” who came to Abraham were actually angels sent by God. Abraham recognized them as God’s representatives and addressed them as if he were speaking directly to Jehovah.—Genesis 18:2, 3, 22, 32; 19:1.
Visions. God has also appeared to humans through visions, or scenes presented to a person’s mind. For instance, when the Bible says that Moses and other Israelites “saw the God of Israel,” they really “saw a vision of the true God.” (Exodus 24:9-11) Likewise, the Bible sometimes says that prophets “saw Jehovah.” (Isaiah 6:1; Daniel 7:9; Amos 9:1) In each case, the context shows that they were given a vision of God rather than a direct view of him.—Isaiah 1:1; Daniel 7:2; Amos 1:1.

Learn about God through the life of Jesus. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, Jehovah God, he could rightly say: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.”—John 14:9. (Robert Gwin)

What were you saying about there being no Trinity?

 

[Robert Gwin]

While I do appreciate your reply I must say that I am careful on the usage of the word, "literally". It often, I believe, conveys the wrong meaning or a distorted meaning when we are talking about God and the things of God. Without clarification for me it muddies the waters of communication.

Normally, I do not believe anyone can see God with the two natural eyeballs located in the forward part of our heads. The "eyes to see" in scripture would be the "eyes of faith" you mention or the vision by means of the Holy Spirit in a man. In the very beginning of our walk with God we have that vision, but it is very dim or blurry or as through a glass darkly.

As a person grows closer to God, learning through the scriptures, the Holy Spirit and communication with God, his vision by faith, or spiritual vision, is increasing. That increase should continue for as long as we have time. The danger I see for a believer is when having initially received such vision he then sits back instead continuing the seek the face of God.

Since the faithful slave has been established Amad, God's people are fed through them. Any visions anyone has, simply belong to them, as Jesus assigned that slave. We agree that no one has seen God with their physical eyes.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Apart from being very negative, you contradict yourself.

Easy enough to show sir, since everything I post is in writing correct?

 

[Robert Gwin]

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(Matthew 3:16-17 KJV)

Verse 16 tells us the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus like a dove. Then the Father said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

There we have the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are present throughout the Bible. The Trinity is an incontrovertible fact.
.

Yes sir, as you can see, Jehovah is not Jesus by your own testimony. He was in heaven, and stated very clearly Jesus was His son.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Learn about God through the life of Jesus. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, Jehovah God, he could rightly say: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.”—John 14:9. (Robert Gwin)

What were you saying about there being no Trinity?

I say Jesus meant that by looking at him, you would see everything the same if Jehovah would have came instead. That could be said about any being without sin. Everything Jesus did, was exactly how Jehovah wanted it. The Bible says similarly about seeing God through His creation at Rom 1:20, of course trees are not Jehovah any more than Jesus is.

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus is the God men had seen in the O.T. and not the Father.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Although Jesus testified above that no man had seen God the Father at any time, but He did as God because He was from above and not of the earth as other men were.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus said that scriptures testify of Himself and that Moses had written specifically about Himself.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Scriptural proof that the Lord Jesus is that Jehovah that had spoken to Moses for why Jesus Christ had said, Moses had written of Himself as the God named Jehovah in the scriptures for having appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob that men had seen in the O.T. .

Exodus 6:1Then the Lord said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Jesus said Abraham had seen Him in His day before His incarnation as the prophesied Son of Man.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The Lord appeared to Abraham in Genesis 12:7, Genesis 17:1, & Genesis 18:1-8 was when He did eat & drank what Abraham had prepared for Him.

The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24

The Lord appeared to Jacob & they had wrestled face to face & Jacob still lived for why Jacob had called that place Penuel in verse 30 of Genesis 32:24-30

The Lord appeared to Moses in Exodus 3:2, Exodus 3:15-17, Exodus 4:1-8 & Exodus 6:1-4

This is why Jesus is the Lord Jehovah that men has seen in the O.T. & not the Father.

It is my belief God and the Father are the same person.

 

[Cooper]

I say Jesus meant that by looking at him, you would see everything the same if Jehovah would have came instead. That could be said about any being without sin. Everything Jesus did, was exactly how Jehovah wanted it. The Bible says similarly about seeing God through His creation at Rom 1:20, of course trees are not Jehovah any more than Jesus is.

Jesus is God with us. The Bible says it.
​

 

[Christ4Me]

It is my belief God and the Father are the same person.

But does your belief aligns with scripture that God is a One Person God? Because scripture disagrees with your belief.

I am not denying that the Father is God, but neither am I denying the Son is God nor am I denying that the Holy Spirit is God.

The One God is not as simple as mankind has done in creating gods individually operating after their own will.

God the Father's will shall be done for why He is greater God to Jesus, the Son of God, just as the father should be in any family without diminishing the sons as if they are not the same existence as the father.

I am not speaking for Oneness Pentecostalism when each Person has a role to perform as each Person in that One Godhead serves as a Witness for how the Three Witnesses within the One God establish any word in creation and to judge any one by because He is a Triune God.

 

[Bob Estey]

But does your belief aligns with scripture that God is a One Person God? Because scripture disagrees with your belief.

I am not denying that the Father is God, but neither am I denying the Son is God nor am I denying that the Holy Spirit is God.

The One God is not as simple as mankind has done in creating gods individually operating after their own will.

God the Father's will shall be done for why He is greater God to Jesus, the Son of God, just as the father should be in any family without diminishing the sons as if they are not the same existence as the father.

I am not speaking for Oneness Pentecostalism when each Person has a role to perform as each Person in that One Godhead serves as a Witness for how the Three Witnesses within the One God establish any word in creation and to judge any one by because He is a Triune God.

I believe there is one God.

My dad told me you can find almost anything you want in scripture, so it wouldn't surprise me if you could find something in the Bible with which to dispute anything I say.

 

[Cooper]

But does your belief aligns with scripture that God is a One Person God? Because scripture disagrees with your belief.

I am not denying that the Father is God, but neither am I denying the Son is God nor am I denying that the Holy Spirit is God.

The One God is not as simple as mankind has done in creating gods individually operating after their own will.

God the Father's will shall be done for why He is greater God to Jesus, the Son of God, just as the father should be in any family without diminishing the sons as if they are not the same existence as the father.

I am not speaking for Oneness Pentecostalism when each Person has a role to perform as each Person in that One Godhead serves as a Witness for how the Three Witnesses within the One God establish any word in creation and to judge any one by because He is a Triune God.

One God in heaven, our Heavenly Father. The same omnipresent coexisting God made visible in the flesh on earth, Jesus. The same omnipresent coexisting God indwelling our hearts, the Holy Spirit. God is One.
.

 

[Christ4Me]

I believe there is one God.

My dad told me you can find almost anything you want in scripture, so it wouldn't surprise me if you could find something in the Bible with which to dispute anything I say.

It is the plural sense that is in contention with what you say. I believe that is why believers back in the early church days were having trouble with the concept that there are 3 Witnesses within the One God for why there aren't that many 1 John manuscripts around and why some do not have 1 John 5:7 regarding the 3 Witnesses in Heaven in it.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Although your Bible version probably does not have verse 7 above as it is in the KJV, it should have these verses below.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

That's Jesus & the Father as separate and yet being in us.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That's the Holy Spirit as fulfilling the role of the Comforter as sent by the Father to teach us all things & bring into remembrance of what Jesus has said unto us. That is the Third Person that is not the Father Whom the Father sends nor the Son that teaches us to remind us of all things the Son said unto us as Jesus Christ bears witness of the Holy Spirit as dwelling in us also.

You should ask the Lord if your church's beliefs is keeping you from seeing the truth in His words.

 

[Christ4Me]

One God in heaven, our Heavenly Father. The same omnipresent coexisting God made visible in the flesh on earth, Jesus. The same omnipresent coexisting God indwelling our hearts, the Holy Spirit. God is One.
.

The Father nor the Holy Spirit had died on the cross. Only the Son did. And the Son had experienced that separation from the Father on the cross when He took on the sins of the world during that three hours of unexplained darkness at His crucifixion.

They are 3 Witnesses as in 3 Persons within that One Godhead. Oneness Pentecostalism cannot be applied if that was what you were referring to.

 

[Bob Estey]

It is the plural sense that is in contention with what you say. I believe that is why believers back in the early church days were having trouble with the concept that there are 3 Witnesses within the One God for why there aren't that many 1 John manuscripts around and why some do not have 1 John 5:7 regarding the 3 Witnesses in Heaven in it.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Although your Bible version probably does not have verse 7 above as it is in the KJV, it should have these verses below.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

That's Jesus & the Father as separate and yet being in us.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That's the Holy Spirit as fulfilling the role of the Comforter as sent by the Father to teach us all things & bring into remembrance of what Jesus has said unto us. That is the Third Person that is not the Father Whom the Father sends nor the Son that teaches us to remind us of all things the Son said unto us as Jesus Christ bears witness of the Holy Spirit as dwelling in us also.

You should ask the Lord if your church's beliefs is keeping you from seeing the truth in His words.

When I pray, I pray to once person, God, my Father. I know no other Gods.

 

[Cooper]

The Father nor the Holy Spirit had died on the cross. Only the Son did. And the Son had experienced that separation from the Father on the cross when He took on the sins of the world during that three hours of unexplained darkness at His crucifixion.

They are 3 Witnesses as in 3 Persons within that One Godhead. Oneness Pentecostalism cannot be applied if that was what you were referring to.

There can be many co-existing fish (persons) in the river of life. Who is at the fountain head? Jesus is at the fountain head. From Him flow rivers of living water. As the Word he created the heavens and the earth and when he came among us, the angel told Mary to call his name Jesus, even though he is "God with us." People change their name, have multiple names, but they are still the same person and the true God is unchanging whatever the name, and to deny Jesus is to deny the living Word. He is the same unchanging God, yesterday, today and forever.
.

 

[farouk]

But does your belief aligns with scripture that God is a One Person God? Because scripture disagrees with your belief.

I am not denying that the Father is God, but neither am I denying the Son is God nor am I denying that the Holy Spirit is God.

The One God is not as simple as mankind has done in creating gods individually operating after their own will.

God the Father's will shall be done for why He is greater God to Jesus, the Son of God, just as the father should be in any family without diminishing the sons as if they are not the same existence as the father.

I am not speaking for Oneness Pentecostalism when each Person has a role to perform as each Person in that One Godhead serves as a Witness for how the Three Witnesses within the One God establish any word in creation and to judge any one by because He is a Triune God.

@Christ4Me Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed deeply present in Scripture, especially revealed in a glorious way in the NT.