Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
LOL...it wasn't meant to be.....its called a response to a bucket load of personal attacks. So shoot me.
Jesus is Michael
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
you want to dish it out AJ, however when one comes back at you with unbridled enthusiasm you resort to cheap tricksLOL...it wasn't meant to be.....its called a response to a bucket load of personal attacks. So shoot me.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
KJB? You are behaving more like KGB...
When you say things like this...."I continue to answer, from scripture, the simple questions that I am asking. They are not hard for someone unafraid to answer publicly, and be publicly examined."
or
"If at any time you decide you want to try to answer my simple questions (as you said you taught the Bible for 50 years) then please do so."
So how's the altitude up there....was that an attempt at humility?
Sorry, it didn't work. My path is my business just like yours is your business......so please lighten up. Christ never taught with a big stick, forcing people to accept his teachings. He stated his truth and left it to his listeners to decide for themselves whether it was truth or not.
You should try that....."you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" my Nan used to say....."stop judging, lest you be judged"....good advice that.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Well I notice that you are not averse to dishing it out yourself QT.....pot/kettle...?
Cheap tricks? What cheap tricks?
Are you blind to the fact that when Jesus said He was the Son of God, it meant that He was God the Son? Do you not understand why the Jews wanted to stone Him for blasphemy? Because He made Himself EQUAL to God. It is right there in the Bible!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Yes I do know why they wanted to stone Jesus, Enoch....they wanted an excuse to put him to death. Any excuse, but it had to carry the death penalty. If calling himself the "Son of God" was blasphemy then imagine what they would have done if he'd said he was God incarnate? !!
What is right there in my Bible is the fact that Jesus only ever called himself "the Son of God".
Please provide one singe verse in scripture where Jesus says that he is "God the Son"......I'll wait...
I couldn't help but respond to this. Jesus came fulfilling the law and he specifically said that giving testimony of Himself wasn't valid (the law requires 2 or 3 witnesses to establish any matter under the law.) However, during His trial, and when asked directly if He was the son of God, He answered the High Priest in the affirmative.
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing.
Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”
62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Mark 14:60-63
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
self awareness AJ!....are you seriously not aware of the cheap tricks you attempt?.....well there ya go, persistent denial ensures the inability to see even the glaringly obvious.
Where does the NT say that Michael is the Savior? You're making it all up! Jesus is the ONLY Savior for Christians.
Thank you for your response.
I do not reject the trinity, as the word trinity stands, TRI- the prefix meaning 3 and UNITY - meaning united.
(I do reject the Catholic sketch the shows God is/God is not as their explanation.)
Your conclusion and view sparks my interest.
More personally ...
How do you view, “your word”, or “your heart”, or “your hands”, for example?
Would you say they Are you, or perhaps parts of you that you would say possibly possessed as only yours, as “my”, “mine”, “I”?
Curious, if you don’t mind.
Glory to God,
Taken
Indeed, how ever could any finite creature, no matter how exalted in status, ever sit down "in" the eternal throne of Deity? The answer? They never could (Lucifer wanted to, which is the same theology of the WTS/JW, they try to place their theological creature there.)
Jesus is eternal Deity.
Rev 3:21: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
I showed you in Rev. 12. Michael is the heavenly name (means, (He) Who is like God (the Father), see Hebrews 1:3, express image).
Read this carefully:
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Since "neither is there salvation in any other (than the Son of the Father)", and Jesus/Michael/the last Adam/David/etc are the same person, there is no contradiction, or controversy internally in the texts.
No, you don't, and your reply shows that tremendously. The context shows Jesus claimed the nature of and equality to Deity. Care to see that more closely?
Any Bible believe knows you are trying to steal our Savior Jesus from us! You're twisting Scripture like Satan does! Jesus is our Savior, not Michael!
Mat 10:25 - It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Emptied Himself (NASB)
Now to the second phrase in Philippians 2 that causes a difficulty. It is the one that says Jesus Christ "did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself (v. 6-7). It is unfortunate that the Old King James version of the Bible translated this verse completely wrong. It reads that Jesus "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" and gives the impression that as the preexistent God, Jesus did not think there was anything wrong in being considered equal with God.
It ought to be clear by now that this is the exact opposite of what is meant. The whole context of the passage is about being humble, putting God's will and glory first, and serving others’ interest above one's own interest. Although he was in "the form of God" Jesus did not reckon his God-given status as something to be exploited.
This meaning contrast well with the conduct of Adam who unfortunately did consider equality with God anything to be grasped at. Adam wanted to be like God as Genesis 3:5 teaches. Adam tried to grasp at equality with God. But Jesus would not usurp God's authority for selfish advantage. He said, "I came to serve" (Matt. 20:28), not to snatch! At his arrest in the garden, he said, "Do you not think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than 12 legions of angels?" (Matthew 26:53). As the Messiah, God's appointed King, he had every right to call for divine protection. He "emptied himself" of all such Messianic privileges.
Therefore, it can be categorically stated that Philippians 2: 5-11 has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God in a preexistence state. The importance is really very simple and very practical: how are Christians to conduct themselves in this world? Not by imitating the man Adam who forfeited everything by a grab for power and glory, but by imitating Jesus the Messiah (v.5) who through humility and obedience to God gained it all and more. After all, if Jesus was already God, then verses 9 to 11 are nonsensical. There is no "Therefore also God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth." If he was already God, he had this before his birth! No. It is clear that God has given him a new position, a new name (authority), and a new rank that he did not previously possess.
The Greek is very clear here: dio kai means (as in Luke 1:35) "for this reason precisely." Why has God exalted Jesus to His right hand? "Therefore, God has highly exalted him and given him the name above every other name because he is back where he was before as God"? Not at all! He is given the status as a reward for the precise reason that he humbled himself and died. His exalted status is a reward. If we follow the last Adam's pattern, we too will be exalted by God when Christ returns. It is evident, then, that "this hymn does not contained what numerous interpreters seek and find in it: an independent statement about preexistence or even a Christology preexistence… No preexistence of Christ before the world with an independent significance can be recognized even in Philippians 2.
This is the creed of ALL Orthodox Christian Beliefs! All of them!
DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON (451 AD)
Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
So pay close attention.... The Kenotic Doctrine claims that Jesus emptied himself of his deity. Well, you can simply read in the Chalcedon Creed that it defines Jesus’ nature as fully God and fully man at all times, without division, without separation. You cannot say that you believe in the Trinity and use this excuse. If you subscribe to the Kenotic Doctrine, then you have already rejected the Trinity. You cannot be both.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Where did you get the idea...Jesus created Himself???
I already showed you... Jesus never claimed credit for the original Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth.
He was in no doubt that the universe was God's handiwork.
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God (my Father) created until now, and never will be.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word (ῥῆμα/ rhēma) of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Just look at scripture... Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The same god who gave Jesus His revelations... Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
Scripture teaches Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary... thus the Son of God was created... at that time
Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Paul
Would you mind simplifying what you're pasting here?
Jesus humbled Himself. What was He before He humbled Himself? He took on the form of a servant. Who Is He that He took on a form? Do you understand what I'm asking?
"He put on the uniform of a fireman." What was he before? A man in streetclothes. Like that.
So I answer this way. Before Jesus took the form of a servant, He was sovereign. But He became fashioned as a man, and took on the role of a man.
Much love!
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