Jesus is the Son of his God

[Matthias]

Academic categorization works in a bit different way than the theological one.

Christianity does not identify itself to be Judaism or a part of Judaism. That is why you will not find this in any historical Christian work. If anything, Christianity identified itself as being in the opposition to Judaism.

However, for modern academic purposes, they may see it as related because it has begun in the cultural background of "Judaism".. But such categorization is not relevant for us. As Paul says, Judaism was his former way of life, but his new life was in Christ.

I just finished reading this. A nice instructive example of what I’m talking about:

In What Ways Did Jesus Live As A Jew? - Chosen People Ministries

We can assess the Jewishness of Jesus by His relationship to the people of His day, by His relationship to the Jewish religion, and by His relationship with

chosenpeople.com

 

[Matthias]

In every aspect of his life, Jesus of Nazareth is Jewish.

What would we say if someone were to say to us “The pope isn’t Catholic”? What would we say if someone were to say to us “Muhammad isn’t a Muslim”?

“Jesus isn’t a Jew” is at the same level of “The pope isn’t Catholic” and “Muhammad isn’t a Muslim”.

 

[HealthyShape]

In every aspect of his life, Jesus of Nazareth is Jewish.

You are focusing on flesh too much. First, He was God, not just some Jew. Second, after the resurrection, He clearly distinguishes Himself from the Jewish nationality, for example in the book of Revelation ("I am alpha and omega, the first and the last...").

 

[HealthyShape]

I just finished reading this. A nice instructive example of what I’m talking about:

In What Ways Did Jesus Live As A Jew? - Chosen People Ministries

We can assess the Jewishness of Jesus by His relationship to the people of His day, by His relationship to the Jewish religion, and by His relationship with

chosenpeople.com

I am not too interested in this kind of websites. But reading for example the writings of the first church or even of the reformers, or even the words of Paul... one cannot accept that Christianity is Judaism. It is rather some kind of modern thought accepted neither by Jews nor by Christians. Christians were expelled from synagogues pretty soon after their appearance.

 

[Matthias]

You are focusing on flesh too much.

I’m focusing on Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of the living God. He practiced what he preached.

First, He was God, not just some Jew. Second, after the resurrection, He clearly distinguishes Himself from the Jewish nationality, for example in the book of Revelation ("I am alpha and omega, the first and the last...").

At no time does Jesus say that he is not a Jew or that he has exchanged his Jewish theology for some other theology.

 

[HealthyShape]

At no time does Jesus say that he is not a Jew or that he has exchanged his Jewish theology for some other theology.

God, the creator of the Universe, is not a Jew. Come on, let us not make this absurd.

 

[Matthias]

I am not too interested in this kind of websites.

I believe believe you. It is an example of Christian operated websites which acknowledge that Jesus is a Jew. The linked article does an excellent job of describing how any of us can evaluate his Jewishness.

But reading for example the writings of the first church or even of the reformers, or even the words of Paul... one cannot accept that Christianity is Judaism.

Christianity didn’t remain a part of Judaism.

It is rather some kind of modern thought accepted neither by Jews nor by Christians. Christians were expelled from synagogues pretty soon after their appearance.

The Jews who believed in Jesus, himself a Jew, were “pretty soon expelled from synagogues,” just as Jesus himself said they would be.

 

[Matthias]

God, the creator of the Universe, is not a Jew.

That’s right. What is your opinion of the Apostles’ Creed?

Come on, let us not make this absurd.

Those who deny that Jesus is a Jew are the ones who are being absurd.

 

[HealthyShape]

The Jews who believed in Jesus, himself a Jew, were “pretty soon expelled from synagogues,” just as Jesus himself said they would be.

Being ethnically a Jew does not mean they are a part of Judaism. I think you are conflating these two things. Paul was a Jew, but left Judaism.

 

[HealthyShape]

That’s right. What is your opinion of the Apostles’ Creed?

I will need some more context. Opinion in what regard?

Those who deny that Jesus is a Jew are the ones who are being absurd.

He was born a Jew, for his life time. He is not a Jew anymore, His body is spiritual, glorified. It does not have any Jewish genes or whatever you imagine...

 

[Matthias]

Being ethnically a Jew does not mean they are a part of Judaism.

He is ethnically a Jew and theologically a Jew.

I think you are conflating these two things. Paul was a Jew, but left Judaism.

Paul didn’t leave Judaism. He was a Pharisee who converted to the Messiah’s sect of Judaism.

 

[Matthias]

I will need some more context. Opinion in what regard?

I was asking if you agree with what is written in the Apostles’ Creed.

He was born a Jew, for his life time. He is not a Jew anymore …

That puts you one small step ahead of those who say that Jesus was not a Jew.

The theology of Jesus before his death is the theology of Jesus following his resurrection to life.

… His body is spiritual, glorified. It does not have any Jewish genes or whatever you imagine...

He was bodily resurrected from the grave. The same will happen to all who belong to him when he returns.

 

[HealthyShape]

He is ethnically a Jew and theologically a Jew.

Neither. He has no ethnicity and no "theology". He is God. As I said before, you focus too much on flesh.

Paul didn’t leave Judaism. He was a Pharisee who converted to the Messiah’s sect of Judaism.

Paul left Judaism.

For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.
And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people...
Gal 1:13-14

 

[HealthyShape]

I was asking if you agree with what is written in the Apostles’ Creed.

I do not think that the eschatological part is necessarily our future, but I do not know of any issue with the rest.

That puts you one small step ahead of those who say that Jesus was not a Jew.

So? He was born a Jew and died a Jew. But after His resurrection:

From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.
2 Cor 5:16

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Rev 1:8 (not "I am Jew!")

 

[Matthias]

Neither. He has no ethnicity and no "theology".

Jesus of Nazareth has both.

 

[Matthias]

I do not think that the eschatological part is necessarily our future, but I do not know of any issue with the rest.

Thanks. I don’t have any issue with any of it.

So? He was born a Jew and died a Jew. But after His resurrection:

From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.
2 Cor 5:16

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Rev 1:8 (not "I am Jew!")

I’ve addressed all of this elsewhere, many times over.

 

[HealthyShape]

Jesus of Nazareth has both.

Flesh only, again.

 

[Matthias]

Flesh only, again.

No, again.

 

[HealthyShape]

I’ve addressed all of this elsewhere, many times over.

That is possible, but that does not mean anything :) People are addressing many things with their opinions, but it does not settle the issue.

 

[Matthias]

That is possible…

It is fact.

… but that does not mean anything :) People are addressing many things with their opinions, but it does not settle the issue.