Jesus isn't Catholic

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife,
You have still failed to answer my contention that the one who belieeth on Him hath everlasting life.
Have you considered what it means that their life is everlasting?
It is not temporal.

If the life being spoken of could come to an end, Jesus would have qualified His statement by saying that it may be temporal.

But He didn't. He said,
Jhn 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
You can scratch that Verily, verily, I say unto you if the life that is given might be temporal.
The fact that Jesus called it everlasting means that it can never come to an end.
Because if it ever comes to an end, it is not everlasting but temporal life. And therefore Jesus was lying when He said that it is everlasting. Even when stating that He was speaking a statement of absolute truth.

Now the above post is logic that you, @BreadOfLife, have never been able to refute.

It is also irrefutable logic; so that you will never be able to refute it.

You may as well concede the fight.

ALREADY addressed - at least a DOZEN times now.

Go back and READ posts like 182, 184, 192, 246, 247, and so on.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No response, @BreadOfLife?

I responded to ALL of your nonsense.
I have a life and a family, however, and don't have time to spend ALL day on it in my mother's basement like YOU . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

You MUST be joking.
Christ IS truth itself:

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and THE TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Crack open a Bible, pal . . .

So, if Jesus is the truth, that means that the Pope isn't, Mary isn't, the saints aren't, and the Jesus cookie isn't...the truth!

I responded to ALL of your nonsense.
I have a life and a family, however, and don't have time to spend ALL day on it in my mother's basement like YOU . . .

What a hateful comment!

I don't live in my mother's basement, my mother passed away some 20 years ago. I live with my wife in a motel room. And yes, i devote myself to full-time ministry here on the internet.

 

[justbyfaith]

ALREADY addressed - at least a DOZEN times now.

Go back and READ posts like 182, 184, 192, 246, 247, and so on.

Again - it's difficult trying to have discussions with you because you are so dishonest.
I ALREADY addressed yourse verses in post #121:

When you cherry-pick a verse of Scripture like John 5:24 and build an entire doctrine around it - you're in trouble.

John 6:47
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

James 2:19 tells us explicitly that even the DEMONS believe in the truths about God but aren't saved.
Jesus also states in Matt. 7:21:
“NOT everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven."

Do these verses refute or "disprove" John 5:24 or John 6:47??
NO. they simply show that YOU are guilty of taking John 5:24 and John 6:47 out of context.

As for John 10:27-30, I've explained to you on numerous occasions that NOBODY said that we can be plucked out of His hand.
We CAN, however, walk away by our OWN doing - that THAT'S what the following verses warn against - so DEAL with them . . .

Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

God doesn't "revoke" His gifts. He doesn't TAKE them away.
However - He also doesn't FORCE them on us. He allows us to CHOOSE whether we want them or not.

This is ONE of the lessons to be learned in the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-31) and the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30).

You haven’t addressed the verses. Instead – you’ve lumped them all into one and discarded them.

Like ALL of the other anti-Catholics on this forum – you completely DODGED the Biblical idea of “Epignosis” that some of these verses describe. They describe the people they are writing to as having Epignosis – and are warning them that they can LOSE their security.

As I have repeatedly told you – Epignosis is defined as a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge that ONLY a truly born-again person has – and YOU have failed to address this.

Finally – as to those who have fear of the Lord NOT walking away from Him – you’re right.
However – that fear MUST be retained as the Word of God WARNS us . .

Matt. 5:13
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has LOST its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is NO LONGER GOOD for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.

1 Tim 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

Heb. 2:1-3
Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall WE escape if WE neglect such a great salvation?

Heb. 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end

Heb. 3:12-14
Take care brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold fast the beginning of OUR assurance firm until the end.

Heb. 4:1
Therefore let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to come short of it.

Heb. 4:11
Let US therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.

Eph. 5:5-6
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

WRONG.

Our cooperation with God’s grace is made possible – but it is NOT guaranteed.

This is the reason for the DOZENS of Biblical warnings not to fall away and LOSE it all.

God NEVER coerces those whom He loves.

"He” was just a typo.

I was showing you that the verses you presented are conditional on our cooperation.

He that believes . . .
He that endures . . .
He that DOES the will of God . . .

These can ALL be summed up by, “He who cooperates with God’s grace will have everlasting life.”

 

[justbyfaith]

None of the above adequately addresses my contention that those who believe on Jesus have everlasting life.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, if Jesus is the truth, that means that the Pope isn't, Mary isn't, the saints aren't, and the Jesus cookie isn't...the truth!

Go to your attic, find your Bible, dust it off and turn to 1 Timothy . . .
1 Tim. 3:15
"if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF TRUTH."

Jesus is the TRUTH.
His CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of that TRUTH.

'Nuff said.

What a hateful comment!

I don't live in my mother's basement, my mother passed away some 20 years ago. I live with my wife in a motel room. And yes, i devote myself to full-time ministry here on the internet.

and yet EVERY time you post, you attack me for not responding immediately.
And that's NOT "hateful"?

 

[BreadOfLife]

None of the above addresses my contention that those who believe on Jesus have everlasting life.

WRONG - they ALL do.

YOUR problem is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them as if there is no other verse that puts them into perspective and build perverse doctrines around them.

VERY dangerous . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Go to your attic, find your Bible, dust it off and turn to 1 Timothy . . .
1 Tim. 3:15
"if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF TRUTH."

Jesus is the TRUTH.
His CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of that TRUTH.

'Nuff said.

and yet EVERY time you post, you attack me for not responding immediately.
And that's NOT "hateful"?

I admit that I am repulsed by your pride and desire to take you down a notch. It is not that I am hateful of you but rather I am hateful of your attitude.

There is no dust on my Bible, I read it daily.

The church is identified as the body of Christ...those who believe on Him for salvation (and what He did for them on the Cross).

Not identified as a specific denomination such as "Catholic".

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG - they ALL do.

YOUR problem is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them as if there is no other verse that puts them into perspective and build perverse doctrines around them.

VERY dangerous . . .

What I do is take every scripture at face value and seek to understand them individually before going on to the next scripture. Then, when I read the next scripture, which may be in contrast to the one that I have previously read, I don't nullify the meaning of the first scripture because the second one seems to contradict it. Therefore I am able to see more clearly how contrasting scriptures relate to each other; because I "meditate on" (Psalms 1) each scripture as it stands individually in the word of the Lord.

You should do the same.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG - they ALL do.

None of them adequately address my contention...

In other words, what you have posted has been inadequate to be able to convince me of your pov...

And yes, if you had a convincing enough argument, I would indeed be convinced.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I admit that I am repulsed by your pride and desire to take you down a notch. It is not that I am hateful of you but rather I am hateful of your attitude.

There is no dust on my Bible, I read it daily.

The church is identified as the body of Christ...those who believe on Him for salvation (and what He did for them on the Cross).

Not identified as a specific denomination such as "Catholic".

The Church is defined as a like-minded Body of believers with visible leaders (2 Thess. 2:15) united as ONE (John 17:20-23).

It is NOT defined as tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering "bodies" that ALL teach different doctrines based on their separate views of the Word f God.

 

[Illuminator]

speaking of worst doctrines of all we have
maryology

Rooted in both Testaments. The current anti-Mary animus infecting many circles of non-Catholics contradicts the reformers. They are man made traditions conjured up by Protestant liberals and atheists and are less than 200 years old. This sparked a reaction with concerned Protestants and the Fundamentalist Movement was formed to counter the growing threat of Modernism, what Pope Pius called "the synthesis of all heresies".

pontiff/pope

The scandal of a decapitated earthly body is evident by looking in the yellow pages under "churches". Most "Bible Alone" churches can't even agree whether or not Baptism is an essential doctrine due to the multitude of sole authority, an oxymoron.

indulgenced

Thoroughly biblical.

1. The pious use of indulgences dates back into the early days of the Church, and the principles underlying indulgences extend back into the Bible itself.
2. The principles behind indulgences are as clear in Scripture as those behind more familiar doctrines, such as the Trinity. Primer on Indulgences

Luther mistakenly blamed the doctrine for what he saw was corruption which was formally condemned by the Church a few short years later. Psychologists have determined Luther had bouts of manic-depressive psychosis based on the analysis of his writings. The historic Church is in a perpetual state of renewal; that's why we have councils. If Luther had shown up 10 years later, a great wound to unity may have been avoided. Non-Catholics have been bellyaching over a no-longer-existing issue for 500 years.

purgatory

Originated in Judaism. Your roots are severed.

prayer to the dead

FOR the dead, not TO the dead. There is no such thing as dead people in heaven. Contrary to the opinions of frothing-at-the-mouth anti-Catholics, saints in heaven can't do a single thing on earth without God. They merely intervein. They have no power in themselves to answer anything. That's God's job, not the saints. Why this simple concept is so difficult to understand is anybody's guess.

The Communion of Saints was a universally accepted tradition that predates the canon of Scripture that no one objected to for 15 centuries. The evidence is there for anyone who wishes to see it. You divorce yourself from the authentic beliefs and practices of the early Church that clearly existed before all the books blossomed into the Bible. This fact compels anti-Catholics to re-write history of their own making, and dismiss the written testimonies of the same men who proved inspiration of Scripture. It's contradictory, self defeating and absurd.

elevation of saints

They are declared already in heaven, they are not elevated to heaven. SAINTS Peter and Paul were never formally canonized, because they were universally acclaimed SAINTS by all the SAINTS on earth.
It would be as dumb as the church infallibly declaring that water is wet.

and last but not least a false gospel condemned in Galatians 1.

I challenge you to make a brief summary of your version of the true gospel, and I will show you where it is proclaimed at every Mass. I'll try to show you, not punch you in the face. Please retract your claws.

EVANGELIUM VITAE to all People of Good Will
on the Value and Inviolability of Human Life
The incomparable worth of the human person

2. Man is called to a fullness of life which far exceeds the dimensions of his earthly existence, because it consists in sharing the very life of God. The loftiness of this supernatural vocation reveals the greatness and the inestimable value of human life even in its temporal phase. Life in time, in fact, is the fundamental condition, the initial stage and an integral part of the entire unified process of human existence. It is a process which, unexpectedly and undeservedly, is enlightened by the promise and renewed by the gift of divine life, which will reach its full realization in eternity (cf. 1 Jn 3:1-2). At the same time, it is precisely this supernatural calling which highlights the relative character of each individual's earthly life. After all, life on earth is not an "ultimate" but a "penultimate" reality; even so, it remains a sacred reality entrusted to us, to be preserved with a sense of responsibility and brought to perfection in love and in the gift of ourselves to God and to our brothers and sisters.

The Church knows that this Gospel of life, which she has received from her Lord, 1 has a profound and persuasive echo in the heart of every person-believer and non-believer alike-because it marvelously fulfils all the heart's expectations while infinitely surpassing them. Even in the midst of difficulties and uncertainties, every person sincerely open to truth and goodness can, by the light of reason and the hidden action of grace, come to recognize in the natural law written in the heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15) the sacred value of human life from its very beginning until its end, and can affirm the right of every human being to have this primary good respected to the highest degree. Upon the recognition of this right, every human community and the political community itself are founded.

In a special way, believers in Christ must defend and promote this right, aware as they are of the wonderful truth recalled by the Second Vatican Council: "By his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in some fashion with every human being".2 This saving event reveals to humanity not only the boundless love of God who "so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (John 3:16), but also the incomparable value of every human person.

The Church, faithfully contemplating the mystery of the Redemption, acknowledges this value with ever new wonder.3 She feels called to proclaim to the people of all times this "Gospel", the source of invincible hope and true joy for every period of history. The Gospel of God's love for man, the Gospel of the dignity of the person and the Gospel of life are a single and indivisible Gospel.

For this reason, man-living man-represents the primary and fundamental way for the Church. 4
3. "...Today this proclamation is especially pressing because of the extraordinary increase and gravity of threats to the life of individuals and peoples, especially where life is weak and defenseless. In addition to the ancient scourges of poverty, hunger, endemic diseases, violence and war, new threats are emerging on an alarmingly vast scale.
...+
This is a reflection of The Gospel that Christophany thinks is false.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to somehow show that Jesus does not give everlasting, but temporal life.

But to do so, you would have to contradict Jesus' Verily, verily, statement in John 6:47.

To @BreadOfLife.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Church is defined as a like-minded Body of believers with visible leaders (2 Thess. 2:15) united as ONE (John 17:20-23).

It is NOT defined as tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering "bodies" that ALL teach different doctrines based on their separate views of the Word f God.

The body of Christ is unified by the blood of Christ (see Romans 5:9)...regardless of any disagreement that they may have concerning peripheral issues in doctrine.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Funny – I see a LOT of anti-Catholic rants.
What I DON’T see is a single refutation of the Scriptural obliteration I presented of the 16th century man-made fallacy of OSAS.

Soooooo - ALL your hot wind can’t change the Scriptural fact that our salvation requires our cooperation with God’s grace.
Try again . . .

I am not going to waste precious computer ink debating somebody that has been brain-washed all of their lives.....trust me —- I could. The truth is , I have been down this road so many times, I know that only the Holy Spirit can open your heart to the Truth, and I ain’t the Holy Spirit....these days, you and your ilk simply bore me . I WILL pray for you.....that is your only hope.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What I do is take every scripture at face value and seek to understand them individually before going on to the next scripture. Then, when I read the next scripture, which may be in contrast to the one that I have previously read, I don't nullify the meaning of the first scripture because the second one seems to contradict it. Therefore I am able to see more clearly how contrasting scriptures relate to each other; because I "meditate on" (Psalms 1) each scripture as it stands individually in the word of the Lord.

You should do the same.

And neither does the Church ever "nullify" verses of Scripture.
What YOU fail to do is to see the HARMONY of two seemingly contrasting verses.

You read ONE verse that tells you that anyone who "believes" iun Christ has everlasting life. You absolutize that verse and build a false doctrine around it WITHOUT taking the other verses into consideration. Verses that put conditions on that mere belief.

Believing is the FIRST step - NOT out final responsibility.

 

[justbyfaith]

And neither does the Church ever "nullify" verses of Scripture.
What YOU fail to do is to see the HARMONY of two seemingly contrasting verses.

You read ONE verse that tells you that anyone who "believes" iun Christ has everlasting life. You absolutize that verse and build a false doctrine around it WITHOUT taking the other verses into consideration. Verses that put conditions on that mere belief.

Believing is the FIRST step - NOT out final responsibility.

If I believe on Him, I "have" everlasting rather than temporal life.

What about that is so hard for you to understand?

You need to take the holy scriptures at face value or you will never understand how they coincide.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The body of Christ is unified by the blood of Christ (see Romans 5:9)...regardless of any disagreement that they may have concerning peripheral issues in doctrine.

"Peripheral" issues??

Some Protestant doctrinal differences are ESSENTIAL - and are as different as night and day . . .

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Somebelieve in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on . . .

Don't tell me about "peripheral" differences that don't matter . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

"Peripheral" issues??

Some Protestant doctrinal differences are ESSENTIAL - and are as different as night and day . . .

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Somebelieve in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on . . .

Don't tell me about "peripheral" differences that don't matter . . .

Someone who is washed in the blood will eventually fall on one side of any of those issues rather than the other...

Next...

 

[BreadOfLife]

If I believe on Him, I "have" everlasting rather than temporal life.

What about that is so hard for you to understand?

You need to take the holy scriptures at face value or you will never understand how they coincide.

It's NOT hard to understand.

I DO have everlasting like - as long as I . . .
Endure to the end in faith (Matt. 24:13)
REMAIN in Him (Matt. 5:13, 1 Cor. 9:27, 2 Peter 3:17, 1 John 2:24)

I DON'T get to KEEP everlasting life if I walk away from Him (Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22)