• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would say that not every sect in Protestantism is led by the Holy Spirit in believing what they believe; just as the Catholic Church is no longer led by the Holy Spirit to believe what it believes.

In order for this to be true - you have to assume that Jesus LIED in Matt. 16:18 when He promised that His Church would never succumb to the gates of Hell.
As I explained in a post above, even those who have the Holy Ghost are being transformed by the renewing of their minds. And therefore, one Protestant believer may believe one thing that is erroneous while another believes the truth on the matter. But if the Spirit of truth is in them, they will come to the knowledge of the truth eventually by continued study of the word of God (2 Timothy 2:15).

Clearly, if someone has the Holy Spirit, then the promise that the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth applies...
For why would the Holy Spirit dwell in a person's heart and yet not operate in His vocation of guiding that person into all truth?
It's been 500 YEARS of confusion - and generation after generation of Protestants have died believing in erroneous and/or competing doctrines.
Soooooo, WHEN you you expect that the Holy Spirit will set everybody straight??
I tend to disagree with you there. For there is one God; even one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).
YOU disagree with virtually everything I say - so what's the difference?

A for 1 Tim. 2:5, you'll get NO disagreement from me OR the Catholic Church.
You forget that it was the Catholic Church who declared this Book as part of the Canon of Scripture.
There is another hermeneutical rule given to us in the word itself...

That wherever there is a promise given in the Bible, the person reading it can obtain that promise by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22)
Sooooooo, Psalm 78:2, Matt. 13:34 and Mark 4:2 are LYING when they said that Jesus taught the crowds in Parables??
Jesus didn't instruct His inner circle in the same way - so YES, there IS a hermeneutical difference in the way you interpret the Scriptures regarding either group.

There is explicit Scriptural teaching and IMPLICIT Scriptural teaching.
Any 1st year Scripture student knows this.
There is one God; even one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).
Yup - so what's your point?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that Ignatius, when he said, "Catholic", meant Universal.
The term did not carry the same meaning as it does today....for today it represents a denomination that is cult-like in that it claims to be the true church and the source of everything Christian.
And the text is RED is where you ALWAYS get into trouble because you don't do your homework.

Ignatius
was writing about the "Catholic Church" as a title - not a mere description.
This is evidenced by further 2nd century documentation.

One ROCK SOLID example is the second century document, The Martyrdom of Polycarp. This document has a very interesting phrase in it which would make NO sense at all if what you're claiming is true.
Let's take a look, shall we?

Excerpt from The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath.


The words, καθ ολης (katah-holos) is GREEK for “throughout” and “whole" or "universal”.

The phrase in this document - which, by the way, is ALSO written in GREEK - would be horribly redundant, if not comical. if this was a mere description and not a title. It would go something like this:
"... and the whole whole throughout Church throughout the world ..."

It is blindingly clear that this document is using the term Catholic Church as a TITLE and not a mere description or the wording would make NO sense whatsoever in Greek.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christs Church has a Name.
The locations were by the Names of the cities.

Acts 20:
[28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Cor.1
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Cor.10
[32] Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Cor.11
[22] What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
1Cor.15
[9] For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
2Cor.1
[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of Godwhich is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Gal.1
[13] For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
1Tim.3
[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Glory to God,
Taken
These are descriptions of what the Church is. It's STILL the Church of God.
I suggest you refer to post #823 for further explanation.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In order for this to be true - you have to assume that Jesus LIED in Matt. 16:18 when He promised that His Church would never succumb to the gates of Hell.

Christ's church didn't succumb to the gates of hell...its authority was merely transferred to those who stayed true to Christ in the Protestant Reformation (to those who became Protestants).

"The glory departed" from the Catholic Church and rested on those who understood doctrines that are conducive to salvation....such as salvation by grace through faith apart from works (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:5-6).

It's been 500 YEARS of confusion - and generation after generation of Protestants have died believing in erroneous and/or competing doctrines.
Soooooo, WHEN you you expect that the Holy Spirit will set everybody straight??

I don't see much difference in the doctrines that are believed in by most Protestant churches...I believe that all are pretty much unified in their take on Ephesians 2:8-9...

If you are going to condemn Protestant sects it is going to have to be on the basis of doctrines that have to do with essential-to-salvation issues...such as the Catholic Church's belief that Mary is co-redeemer...that will put anyone out of heaven; because they are no longer trusting fully in the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross but are assuming that they can get salvation partially from another source also. It will not cut the cake; because the God we have is a jealous God...

Sooooooo, Psalm 78:2, Matt. 13:34 and Mark 4:2 are LYING when they said that Jesus taught the crowds in Parables??
Jesus didn't instruct His inner circle in the same way - so YES, there IS a hermeneutical difference in the way you interpret the Scriptures regarding either group.

There is explicit Scriptural teaching and IMPLICIT Scriptural teaching.
Any 1st year Scripture student knows this.

So then, wouldn't it be true that things that aren't given in parables are given as promised to any of those who are able to obtain those promises by faith? Consider that John 15:20 is one such verse and that the principle applies to those to whom it is given...anyone who is counted as a genuine disciple of Jesus.
 
Last edited:

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And the text is RED is where you ALWAYS get into trouble because you don't do your homework.

Ignatius
was writing about the "Catholic Church" as a title - not a mere description.
This is evidenced by further 2nd century documentation.

One ROCK SOLID example is the second century document, The Martyrdom of Polycarp. This document has a very interesting phrase in it which would make NO sense at all if what you're claiming is true.
Let's take a look, shall we?

Excerpt from The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath.


The words, καθ ολης (katah-holos) is GREEK for “throughout” and “whole" or "universal”.

The phrase in this document - which, by the way, is ALSO written in GREEK - would be horribly redundant, if not comical. if this was a mere description and not a title. It would go something like this:
"... and the whole whole throughout Church throughout the world ..."

It is blindingly clear that this document is using the term Catholic Church as a TITLE and not a mere description or the wording would make NO sense whatsoever in Greek.
I don't see any problem with the understanding that Polycarp was being redundant.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When a Church is doing the Will of God, But We are Warned many times about False Teachers False Authority, Doctrines of Devils etc so you cant just throw lots of verses around without any context And then say see you have to Listen To Ceaser now...
You can't separate Christ from Christs Teachings It’s not that the apostles were given the privilege of changing God’s mind, as if whatever they decided on earth would be duplicated in heaven,but as they moved forward advancing Jesus Kingdom, they would be fulfilling God’s plan in heaven.
When the apostles “bound” something, or forbade it on earth, they were carrying out the will of God in the matter. When they “loosed” something, or allowed it on earth, they were likewise fulfilling God’s eternal plan.
The disciples will forgive just as Christ has forgiven. How has Christ forgiven? On the basis of His death and to be received by faith. How should the disciples forgive? On the basis of Christ's death and to be received by faith. So as the disciples declare Christ and His forgiveness in the power of the Spirit, the world's response to their message will be its response to Christ, You cant Use Verses Out of Context to try to usurp Jesus Authority
The Churchs Authority Is to preach The Gospel And Advance Gods Kingdom On Earth as Peter Did, But we are left with a Warning If anyone Preach any other Gospel they are Accursed and we are to have nothing to do with them

So To test the Spirit To See whether it is Of God Lets see if you Can answer One question Plainly What is the Gospel according to you?
Paul answered that question in Rom. 1:6 when he said:
“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile”

Now - what does he mean by "believe"? He certainly doesn't mean mere intellectual assent because even the DEMONS have that (James 2:19). No - the Scriptures tell us that to truly "believe" in Christ means
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)

- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2).

To "believe" in Christ for a truly born again person is to surrender to Christ and His will.
His will is that you listen to His Church - or you reject Him and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16, Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't see any problem with the understanding that Polycarp was being redundant.
That's a truly idiotic position - and one that would get you laughed out of any Greek class..

Unbelievable . . .
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Here, faith is counted as righteousness to him that worketh not; and God also imputes righteousness to a man apart from works.

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Here, we are saved by mercy and "not by works of righteousness which we have done."

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Here, we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.

Therefore, works are not a part of faith. Because if that were so, then in being saved through faith we would also be saved of works; which is contrary to that scripture.

Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Here, we see the faithful truth that when it comes to salvation (the election of God), grace and works are mutually exclusive.
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christ's church didn't succumb to the gates of hell...its authority was merely transferred to those who stayed true to Christ in the Protestant Reformation (to those who became Protestants).

"The glory departed" from the Catholic Church and rested on those who understood doctrines that are conducive to salvation....such as salvation by grace through faith apart from works (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:5-6).
On WHO?? On WHICH splintered faction did the Holy Spirit rest upon??

This is a truly asinine supposition unless you can show me ONE Body of like-minded believers (2 Thess. 2:15) on whom the Holy Spirit "transferred" Christs's Authority.
I don't see much difference in the doctrines that are believed in by most Protestant churches...I believe that all are pretty much unified in their take on Ephesians 2:8-9...

If you are going to condemn Protestant sects it is going to have to be on the basis of doctrines that have to do with essential-to-salvation issues...such as the Catholic Church's belief that Mary is co-redeemer...that will put anyone out of heaven; because they are no longer trusting fully in the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross but are assuming that they can get salvation partially from another source also. It will not cut the cake; because the God we have is a jealous God...
Sooooo - you DON'T believe that Double-Predestination is a difference of essentials??

This false Calvinist doctrine holds that God create a select FEW for salvation - and the REST of us simply to toss into Hell at His pleasure.
This renders evangelization null and void because they have been pre-selected.

Some
Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.

These are essential, salvational doctrines.

As for Mary being "Co-Redeptrix" - this is NOT an official teaching of the Church - so stick to the facts . . .
So then, wouldn't it be true that things that aren't given in parables are given as promised to any of those who are able to obtain those promises by faith? Consider that John 15:20 is one such verse and that the principle applies to those to whom it is given...anyone who is counted as a genuine disciple of Jesus.
WHO was Jesus talking to in John 15??
It was to His INNER CIRCLE at the Last Supper. It was NOT to the crowds.

You never read these verses CONTEXT and that's at the root of your confusion.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
On WHO?? On WHICH splintered faction did the Holy Spirit rest upon??

This is a truly asinine supposition unless you can show me ONE Body of like-minded believers (2 Thess. 2:15) on whom the Holy Spirit "transferred" Christs's Authority.

At the time it was the Lutherans. Later, new revelations came about the holy scriptures because there was freedom to explore them.

Those who rejected those new revelations created the splits that you are talking about.

Of course we need the Holy Spirit to be able to discern what is the real truth concerning any of those situations where the church split concerning doctrine. If anyone is not surrendered to the Holy Spirit, they are in danger of creating such a split; whether by rejecting a new revelation that is faithful or whether they come up with a new revelation that is heretical.

Sooooo - you DON'T believe that Double-Predestination is a difference of essentials??

This false Calvinist doctrine holds that God create a select FEW for salvation - and the REST of us simply to toss into Hell at His pleasure.
This renders evangelization null and void because they have been pre-selected.

While I disagree with the concept of Limited Atonement in Calvinism, I do not consider that those who hold to that view do not have salvation; as long as they have placed their faith and trust in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross.

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.

I do believe in baptismal regeneration as a method by which a man may enter into the kingdom.

However, it is not the only way (Romans 10:13).

Believing in baptismal regeneration or not believing in it is therefore not an essential to salvation.

Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.

Many would hold this doctrine to be an essential; I would broaden this to teach that it is only the Deity of Christ that is the essential (John 8:24).

Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.

Liberal denominations that accept homosexuality are, in my opinion, on the brink of depravity. But technically, if someone is a part of such a denomination and believes that Jesus died for their sins; and if they do not deny their own personal sins (1 John 1:9), they can indeed be saved.

As for Mary being "Co-Redemptrix"<fify> - this is NOT an official teaching of the Church - so stick to the facts . . .

Is it not preached in some circles in the Catholic Church as being Catholic doctrine?

Why did I hear of this doctrine in the first place if it is not preached by the Catholic Church?

They need to put this doctrine down if it is not official church doctrine; because it will place a man in hell.

WHO was Jesus talking to in John 15??
It was to His INNER CIRCLE at the Last Supper. It was NOT to the crowds.

You never read these verses CONTEXT and that's at the root of your confusion.

I consider that Hebrews 11:33 tells me that any scripture that is read by me can be obtained by me as a promise (also 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22); and I consider also that the way that the Holy Spirit ministered to me the first time I read John 15:20 was accurate. He ministered it to me that this was indeed a scripture directed to me as being a genuine disciple of the Lord.

I know that you may not accept that.

In a similar manner, I do not accept that John 15:20 is given to your average catholic priest. I consider that, in context, it is given to those who are followers of Jesus; which does not describe every catholic priest. But it does describe some Protestants who have not been given authority by the Catholic Church in any wise. Nevertheless they have authority from the Lord Jesus and the Spirit that He has given to them.
 
Last edited:

HisLife

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
689
375
63
Napier
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Paul answered that question in Rom. 1:6 when he said:
“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile”

Now - what does he mean by "believe"? He certainly doesn't mean mere intellectual assent because even the DEMONS have that (James 2:19). No - the Scriptures tell us that to truly "believe" in Christ means
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)

- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2).

To "believe" in Christ for a truly born again person is to surrender to Christ and His will.
His will is that you listen to His Church - or you reject Him and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16, Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

You Have a Serious Problem With Context, You think the Good News is that you have to sell everything you have and give to the poor...If I apply your standard the same measure you use, it will be measured to you you fail your own standard, James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. So by your own words You condemn yourself as you see with Your last sentence I underlined it is just a straight-up lie the scriptures you used don't say what your words did

So you present a False Gospel condemn yourself And you Lie Any Guesses what that looks like? your false Version Of Your Church looks like Satans version and matches the Characteristics, This Is the First Discussion I have had with Roman Catholics It's amazing How Blind And hypocritical you are and can't see it, Think about it serious and Apply your standards to yourself will you live up to it or Fail?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi @BreadOfLife,

I was praying for you tonight and I believe that the Lord has spoken to me and wants me to give you two verses.

Isa 64:6, But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This is to say that all of the works that you do to obtain righteous merit are as filthy, menstrual rags before the Lord (for that is what the original Hebrew bears out).

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

I have prayed that you wuold enter into that state of mind wherein you might have a conversation with the voice of the Lord within your mind; and wherein you might reason out all the things that you have ever heard coming from Protestants concerning salvation by grace through faith; and that your sins, though they be red like crimson, shall be as wool; and though they be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HisLife

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here is a third verse that the Lord gave me for you upon further prayer:

Heb 6:1, Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A few more verses that the Lord is giving me in my prayers for you:

2Co 6:2, (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Rom 5:5, And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Heb 4:10, For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

To @BreadOfLife...
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jhn 6:44, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:65, And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Pray something like this (out loud, right where you are):

Dear Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I accept your word to me that all my righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and I come to You not on the basis of my own merit but upon the basis of the merits of Your life and death as You took the penalty for my sins on the Cross. Please forgive me for seeking to establish my own righteousness rather than submitting to Yours. I know that I am a sinner in need of a Saviour. Please, won't You save me and fill me with Your Holy Spirit? I acknowledge You as Lord; I confess that You are the Son of God; and I receive You as my Lord and Saviour. I receive You. I receive You. I receive You. I believe that You are risen from the dead. Please come into my heart and be my Lord and Saviour. In Your Name, Amen.
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You Have a Serious Problem With Context, You think the Good News is that you have to sell everything you have and give to the poor...If I apply your standard the same measure you use, it will be measured to you you fail your own standard, James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. So by your own words You condemn yourself as you see with Your last sentence I underlined it is just a straight-up lie the scriptures you used don't say what your words did

So you present a False Gospel condemn yourself And you Lie Any Guesses what that looks like? your false Version Of Your Church looks like Satans version and matches the Characteristics, This Is the First Discussion I have had with Roman Catholics It's amazing How Blind And hypocritical you are and can't see it, Think about it serious and Apply your standards to yourself will you live up to it or Fail?
And you're dishonest - which is the hallmark of ALL anti-Catholics.
You guys can never argue the facts, so you invent lies to detract form the discussion. WHERE in my last post did I say that ALL we had to do was to give to the poor?

YOUR problem is that you actually believe that Faith = "Believing".
That' not faith - that's intellectual assent which makes you NO better off than the demons (James 2:19). The BIBLICAL definition of faith is what I showed you in my last post.

As for your supposed discussions with "Roman" Catholics - are you sure they're all "Roman" Catholics and not any of the other 20 or so Liturgical Rites?
Or are you just content to wallow in ignorance?