Jesus isn't Catholic

[BreadOfLife]

I'm praying for you, @BreadOfLife (or, rather, as you read this, I have prayed for you).

That's funny coming from a person who said just a few days ago that you couldn't wait until I got "kicked out of Heaven".
Talk about hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We are not to go to the saints or Mary or a priest to get to God...Jesus Christ is the singular mediator there.

So we're NOT supposed to oaks ANYBODY for prayer??
Show me where the BIBLE says this - because MY Bible says we're SUPPOSED to intercede for one another (1 Tim. 2:5, James 5:16).

I'll wait right here for your response.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's funny coming from a person who said just a few days ago that you couldn't wait until I got "kicked out of Heaven".
Talk about hypocrisy . . .

Talk about repenting from a former attitude that wasn't right...

If that is hypocrisy, then not one of us has any kind of hope at all.

(although, I thought that I made it clear to you that I was not addressing you in that instance; but the principality and power that was behind your words).

 

[amigo de christo]

So we're NOT supposed to oaks ANYBODY for prayer??
Show me where the BIBLE says this - because MY Bible says we're SUPPOSED to intercede for one another (1 Tim. 2:5, James 5:16).

I'll wait right here for your response.

Do me a favor , if i die and later the pope delcares me a saint . Do not pray to me . Pray to GOD .
Ps saints can ask the living on earth for prayers , but we dont pray to angels or any other in heaven , But GOD .
That is blasphemy . Instead of justifying error , just repent from it .
Please . I worry for all who pray to any other , other than GOD himself .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all who name the glorious name of JESUS CHRIST , depart from all inquity and traditions of men which contradict God .
Let all open those beautiful bibles and learn anew and afresh the wonderful truth filled words of our LORD , the apostels
and all sound doctrine . We must make sure that election and calling , for if we learn those holy scrips well
we are made wise unto salvation through faith in JESUS . I see so many errors in many denominations .
But today is the day that every and anyone who calls upon JESUS can just start fresh in the bible and learn the truth for ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

God has given the true lambs the comforter . And He is able to give us the wisdom , knowledge and understanding
of what HE , the SPIRIT , GOD , inspired .
The simplicity found IN JESUS and all HIS sayings , the apostles sayings , the pure beauty of the words of truth in that bible .
Let the glorious Lord be praised . Let the peoples praise the KING .

 

[Philip James]

Ps saints can ask the living on earth for prayers , but we dont pray to angels or any other in heaven , But GOD .
That is blasphemy .

Hello amigo,

Why would you think asking saints and angels to pray for us is blasphemy?

Peace be with you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

At the time it was the Lutherans. Later, new revelations came about the holy scriptures because there was freedom to explore them.
Those who rejected those new revelations created the splits that you are talking about.
Of course we need the Holy Spirit to be able to discern what is the real truth concerning any of those situations where the church split concerning doctrine. If anyone is not surrendered to the Holy Spirit, they are in danger of creating such a split; whether by rejecting a new revelation that is faithful or whether they come up with a new revelation that is heretical.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've EVER read - and I guarantee that many of your fellow Protestants would disagree.

While I disagree with the concept of Limited Atonement in Calvinism, I do not consider that those who hold to that view do not have salvation; as long as they have placed their faith and trust in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross.
I do believe in baptismal regeneration as a method by which a man may enter into the kingdom.
However, it is not the only way (Romans 10:13). Believing in baptismal regeneration or not believing in it is therefore not an essential to salvation.

This is just more of your evasive nonsense. I listed essential salvational differences - yet you hide behind your similarities.
This is typical of your impotent arguments.

Many would hold this doctrine to be an essential; I would broaden this to teach that it is only the Deity of Christ that is the essential (John 8:24).

WRONG.

The Trinity is THE most BASIC doctrine of Christianity.
Virtually EVERY hersesy is based on a perversion of this doctrine - including YOURS.

Liberal denominations that accept homosexuality are, in my opinion, on the brink of depravity. But technically, if someone is a part of such a denomination and believes that Jesus died for their sins; and if they do not deny their own personal sins (1 John 1:9), they can indeed be saved.

Is it not preached in some circles in the Catholic Church as being Catholic doctrine?
Why did I hear of this doctrine in the first place if it is not preached by the Catholic Church?
They need to put this doctrine down if it is not official church doctrine; because it will place a man in hell.

And YOU need to stop LYING about it.
Get your facts straight before yo post in this subject - because the last tie I checked - LYING will place a man in Hell . . .

I consider that Hebrews 11:33 tells me that any scripture that is read by me can be obtained by me as a promise (also 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22); and I consider also that the way that the Holy Spirit ministered to me the first time I read John 15:20 was accurate. He ministered it to me that this was indeed a scripture directed to me as being a genuine disciple of the Lord.

I know that you may not accept that.

In a similar manner, I do not accept that John 15:20 is given to your average catholic priest. I consider that, in context, it is given to those who are followers of Jesus; which does not describe every catholic priest. But it does describe some Protestants who have not been given authority by the Catholic Church in any wise. Nevertheless they have authority from the Lord Jesus and the Spirit that He has given to them.

That doesn't surprise me.
You usually have a problem rightly dividing Scripture . . .[/QUOTE]

 

[BreadOfLife]

Talk about repenting from a former attitude that wasn't right...
If that is hypocrisy, then not one of us has any kind of hope at all.
(although, I thought that I made it clear to you that I was not addressing you in that instance; but the principality and power that was behind your words).

Suuuurrrrre you were.
However you want to justify your hypocrisy is YOUR problem - not mine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do me a favor , if i die and later the pope delcares me a saint . Do not pray to me . Pray to GOD .

I don't think there's ANY danger of that happening . . .

Ps saints can ask the living on earth for prayers , but we dont pray to angels or any other in heaven , But GOD .
That is blasphemy . Instead of justifying error , just repent from it .
Please . I worry for all who pray to any other , other than GOD himself .

It's "blasphemy" that the saints in Heaven are members of the Body of Christ?? When were they kicked out??
Time for another Bible lesson . . .

Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in Heaven interceding on our behalf by taking our prayers to God.
Rev. 8:4-5 shows the Angels in Heaven doing the SAME thing.

Why do you resent the Word of God??

Finally - see if you can refute the following linguistic evidence regarding the word "PRAY" . . .

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

As you can plainly see - "Pray" simply means to ASK - just like the following verse:
Acts 27:34 - KJV
"Wherefore I PRAY you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you".

Do your homework . . .

 

[HisLife]

And you're dishonest - which is the hallmark of ALL anti-Catholics.
You guys can never argue the facts, so you invent lies to detract form the discussion. WHERE in my last post did I say that ALL we had to do was to give to the poor?

YOUR problem is that you actually believe that Faith = "Believing".
That' not faith - that's intellectual assent which makes you NO better off than the demons (James 2:19). The BIBLICAL definition of faith is what I showed you in my last post.

As for your supposed discussions with "Roman" Catholics - are you sure they're all "Roman" Catholics and not any of the other 20 or so Liturgical Rites?
Or are you just content to wallow in ignorance?

There is the hypocrisy again you invented the lie And I underlined it and pointed it out you ignored it then try and turn it around on me, and as for you saying we have to give to the poor you did and a whole lot more

You didn't ask but the Bible tells us what Faith is Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

As for your James 2:19 you like to quote the Demons believe there is one God, They don't believe the Gospel and they where not happy to see Jesus once again You cant apply context

So instead of pointing the Finger take a look at yourself and see if what you say actually applies to yourself, then we can start dealing with facts

And your all Roman Catholics you have to do what the pope says or you are very bad Catholics You follow that man in a dress who loves gold and definitely doesn't sell all he has and give to the poor

Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is the hypocrisy again you invented the lie And I underlined it and pointed it out you ignored it then try and turn it around on me, and as for you saying we have to give to the poor you did and a whole lot more

You didn't ask but the Bible tells us what Faith is Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

As for your James 2:19 you like to quote the Demons believe there is one God, They don't believe the Gospel and they where not happy to see Jesus once again You cant apply context

So instead of pointing the Finger take a look at yourself and see if what you say actually applies to yourself, then we can start dealing with facts

And your all Roman Catholics you have to do what the pope says or you are very bad Catholics You follow that man in a dress who loves gold and definitely doesn't sell all he has and give to the poor

Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts

Let me know when you have a point in all of this instead of the same tired, old anti-Catholic drivel.

There are MORE than enough dishonest and ignorant anti-Catholics on this forum with nothing to say . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

And YOU need to stop LYING about it.

What was my lie?

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is another set of scriptures for you, @BreadOfLife, that I did not get while praying for you; but nevertheless come to mind:

Gen 6:3, And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Pro 27:1, Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.

Ecc 9:11, I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Luk 13:1, There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2, And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4, Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6, He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7, Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8, And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9, And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

 

[Taken]

These are descriptions of what the Church is. It's STILL the Church of God.
I suggest you refer to post #823 for further explanation.

I am not in need of Explanation.

The Apostles- themselves;

Appointed men:
1) over established "ChurcheS" of God,
(Which the Born Again members, ARE, Members OF Christ's Single One Church).

Also Appointed men:
2) to be the Apostles disciples, assisting the Apostles, and being SENT to the Churce(S), to help the Church attendees Learn About Jesus and How to Convert IN Christ.

I don't find Any Apostle speaking of Christ's Church, by anything but...
The Church___at such n such city.
And
The Church of God.

PRAY For our Nation,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not in need of Explanation.

The Apostles- themselves;

Appointed men:
1) over established "ChurcheS" of God,
(Which the Born Again members, ARE, Members OF Christ's Single One Church).

Also Appointed men:
2) to be the Apostles disciples, assisting the Apostles, and being SENT to the Churce(S), to help the Church attendees Learn About Jesus and How to Convert IN Christ.

I don't find Any Apostle speaking of Christ's Church, by anything but...
The Church___at such n such city.
And
The Church of God.

PRAY For our Nation,
Taken

That's great.
Now show me the verse of Scripture that explicitly says that the Church will NEVER have a title.

The Church eventually had a Title and as I've shown you - by the end of the 1st century, that title was "The Catholic Church".

 

[Berserk]

There are 5 fundamental biblical points that justbyfaith, Behold, Taken, and their ilk continually duck:

(1) I repeat: in both Hebrew ("amunah") and Greek (("Pistis") the word translated "faith" also means faithfulness." That in itself means that we are saved not by an act of belief or trust, but by a new way of being--or, as Paul puts it, by becoming "a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17)."

(2) Catholics can agree that, rightly understood, we are saved by grace alone in the sense that good works can't merit our salvation apart from grace. Put differently, our Fundamentalist posters don't get the philosophical distinction between necessary and sufficient conditions. Good works are a necessary condition for salvation (See e. g. James 2:14), but not a sufficient condition; we still need faith and grace. It is precisely because James teaches the essential role of works that Luther dismissed James as "an epistle of straw," whereas Catholics continued to view it as God's Word.

(3) The word "Catholic" (universal) became the first-century designation of the global church when the faith spread far enough after the apostolic age to become meaningfully universal throughout the Mediterranean world. The issue is not the Church's name, but that the clarification of basic doctrines took centuries. The term "Catholic" was also used to distinguish the widespread doctrinal consensus from local heresies like various forms of Gnosticism.

(4) Fundamentalists here act as if the Holy Spirit deserted the world right after the apostolic age. What they forget is this: If we can't trust the Holy Spirit to guide early Catholic tradition, then we can trust neither the doctrine of the limited NT canon nor the the doctrine of the Trinity. The Personhood of the 3 members of the Godhood is not explicitly taught in Scripture and is instead rightly inferred by later Catholic councils.

(5) The Bible may be inspired and authoritative, but it is NOT a book of systematic theology; indeed, it is woefully incomplete in its progressive revelation, leaving many important questions (e. g. abortion) without an explicit answer. So Catholic tradition and the gifts of the Spirit were necessary to develop new doctrines that are consistent with Scripture without being explicitly taught by Scripture. This is not to deny that our Bible still provides the basics for faith and life.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are 5 fundamental biblical points that justbyfaith, Behold, Taken, and their ilk continually duck:

(1) I repeat: in both Hebrew ("amunah") and Greek (("Pistis") the word translated "faith" also means faithfulness." That in itself means that we are saved not by an act of belief or trust, but by a new way of being--or, as Paul puts it, by becoming "a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17)."

I know that I do not duck or disregard this truth of holy scripture.

(2) Catholics can agree that, rightly understood, we are saved by grace alone in the sense that good works can't merit our salvation apart from grace. Put differently, our Fundamentalist posters don't get the philosophical distinction between necessary and sufficient conditions. Good works are a necessary condition for salvation (See e. g. James 2:14), but not a sufficient condition; we still need faith and grace. It is precisely because James teaches the essential role of works that Luther dismissed James as "an epistle of straw," whereas Catholics continued to view it as God's Word.

Works are not a necessary condition for salvation. They are the result of it (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5, 1 John 3:17-18).

(3) The word "Catholic" (universal) became the first-century designation of the global church when the faith spread far enough after the apostolic age to become meaningfully universal throughout the Mediterranean world. The issue is not the Church's name, but that the clarification of basic doctrines took centuries. The term "Catholic" was also used to distinguish the widespread doctrinal consensus from local heresies like various forms of Gnosticism.

This only supports my pov that the true church is not defined today as the "Catholic Church".

(4) Fundamentalists here act as if the Holy Spirit deserted the world right after the apostolic age. What they forget is this: If we can't trust the Holy Spirit to guide early Catholic tradition, then we can trust neither the doctrine of the limited NT canon nor the the doctrine of the Trinity. The Personhood of the 3 members of the Godhood is not explicitly taught in Scripture and is instead rightly inferred by later Catholic councils.

I have a thread in which I show that the Trinity is biblically-based as a doctrine (will post a link shortly).

True Trinity.

especially posts #1-#6.

(5) The Bible may be inspired and authoritative, but it is NOT a book of systematic theology; indeed, it is woefully incomplete in its progressive revelation, leaving many important questions (e. g. abortion) without an explicit answer. So Catholic tradition and the gifts of the Spirit were necessary to develop new doctrines that are consistent with Scripture without being explicitly taught by Scripture. This is not to deny that our Bible still provides the basics for faith and life.

The issue of abortion is indeed mentioned in proverbs 31:8-9; as well as in the Pentateuch where it says that if there is an injury done to a pregnant woman and complications ensue, the punishment will be eye for eye and tooth for tooth.

Anything that we know on the basis of doctrine needs to be based on holy scripture or on conclusions drawn from holy scripture. If we depart from the word of God as the basis for our doctrine, we will end up falling for anything.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello amigo,

Why would you think asking saints and angels to pray for us is blasphemy?

Peace be with you!

If i May.

because you are placing them equal to God, omnipresent, with the ability to hear all things