Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[Miss Hepburn]

"We are only to worship God Almighty....we do not glorify Jesus...we glorify God...our Father." Excerpts of APAK's

APAK, you will find this funny..I was banned from a very active Christian Forum, in 2010, cuz I started a thread, "Jesus is too much in Christianity" ....What about our Father!
That's all he did was point to our Father!

The old...Looking at the finger that is pointing to the Moon.

 

[101G]

"We are only to worship God Almighty....we do not glorify Jesus...we glorify God...our Father." Excerpts of APAK's

APAK, you will find this funny..I was banned from a very active Christian Forum, in 2010, cuz I started a thread, "Jesus is too much in Christianity" ....What about our Father!
That's all he did was point to our Father!

The old...Looking at the finger that is pointing to the Moon.

Hi Miss Hepburn,
this is true our Lord points to the one we cannot see, he himself without flesh. understand something. our Lord Is the almighty God in Flesh/the Son. without flesh, he's the "Spirit"/Father. the SAME almighty one.

it's only one cannot see the Father/Spirit, but one can see Jesus the son because of the flesh.

one poster pointed it out clearly, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".

there is only ONE GOD, and that ONE GOD was with us. the question is how was he with us. the answer, by being in one of what we have...... a body.

PCY.

 

[APAK]

"We are only to worship God Almighty....we do not glorify Jesus...we glorify God...our Father." Excerpts of APAK's

APAK, you will find this funny..I was banned from a very active Christian Forum, in 2010, cuz I started a thread, "Jesus is too much in Christianity" ....What about our Father!
That's all he did was point to our Father!

The old...Looking at the finger that is pointing to the Moon.

I do know exactly what you experienced, A little different although the same effect or outcome..I was on a site where there was a dedicated roaming staff member on the hunt for JWs etc...I was not a JW although labelled as one....This person would make his mission to prove I was a heretic without success...so I was eventually banned...

Bless you,

APAK

 

[101G]

I do know exactly what you experienced, A little different although the same effect or outcome..I was on a site where there was a dedicated roaming staff member on the hunt for JWs etc...I was not a JW although labelled as one....This person would make his mission to prove I was a heretic without success...so I was eventually banned...

Bless you,

APAK

To Miss H and Apak, 1 Peter 4:12 "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:13 "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 4:14 "If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

PCY

 

[101G]

To APAK,

if you will let's discuss the Philippians 2 aspect of Jesus as God. I didn't see the post you made about chapter, maybe you can give me the post #

PCY.

 

[APAK]

To APAK,

if you will let's discuss the Philippians 2 aspect of Jesus as God. I didn't see the post you made about chapter, maybe you can give me the post #

PCY.

It's on the red bird avatar thread 'Jesus is God' or visa versa...I won't be back online for a few hours from now..

 

[GodsGrace]

First thanks for the response. yes God is a Spirit, John 4:24a.

then in your last post to me, you said, "Now, it is the spirit of God Almighty or his Father if you prefer, that raised Jesus’ body from the dead, and then to immortality".

well, let's see who raised that body. scripture, The Lord Jesus had a few conversations with some Jews and one of them is recorded here in John chapter 2. we will pick it up in verse 18. "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 "But he spake of the temple of his body".

APAK, can the Lord Jesus Lie? God forbid, NO.

in verse 19 of John chapter 2, he, the Lord Jesus said that he would raise up his BODY. here the Lord Jesus is clearly saying that he is God. is these scriptures true?

PCY.

Great!
Never heard this before.

 

[101G]

Great!
Never heard this before.

Hi GG, there are many ways to say YES, and NO without saying YES or NO. the Scriptures are full of this.

and yes, sometimes the Lord Jesus fully says yes. this is why the bible is written the way it is. one must search out the word of God. scripture, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me".

Now why would God tell us to search the scriptures? to find the truth.

that's why the Holy Spirit by the apostle Paul said, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".

see, there's a WRONG way to divide God word. sometimes it's by mistake, and we all are guilty of that. to be human is to make mistakes. but there are times when one straight out lies. that's why we, us you and I must "STUDY"....... NOT to learn anything, but to allow the Holy Spirit to TEACH us the truth.

PCY.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Miss Hepburn,
this is true our Lord points to the one we cannot see, he himself without flesh.
it's only one cannot see the Father/Spirit, but one can see Jesus the son because of the flesh...

Hi 101, I don't believe anyone questions that there is One God..unless I'm missing something. i do miss a lot! lol

I would like to add..humans are so 'dense' and often stuck in only what they can see with 'these' woefully limited eyes or 5 senses, and their
limited concepts....that, of course, out of the kindness that God
is, He gave us a physical being to help us bridge the gap to Truth and Reality and to Home and Him.

I will say...baloney to God being invisible.
For those that are in doubt and think it impossible...Sit....in a stillness
beyond anything you have ever done, for hours...with one purpose ...for Him to show Himself to you.
And you will have a direct internal Visit.
Like Jacob who saw Him face to face.
All of us have the same capablity and chance to see God within.

Please, dont believe me.
See for yourself, take the time, the discipline,
the diliberate steadfastness to see for yourself.
Believe ....we can see God within...afterall, that is where His Kingdom is...where He dwells, right?

If it took years of sitting each day for hours would you do it?
(This is a rhetorical question to anyone...not 'you'.)


Added: I see you said search the scriptures.
"If thine eye be single thy whole body will be full of light." -Jesus
Luke, KJV

 

[bbyrd009]

Now why would God tell us to search the scriptures? to find the truth.

kind of interesting that you misquoted a passage that actually makes the opposite point there 101

John 5:39 Lexicon: "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

 

[101G]

I will say...baloney to God being invisible.
For those that are in doubt and think it impossible...Sit....in a stillness
beyond anything you have ever done, for hours...with one purpose ...for Him to show Himself to you.
And you will have a direct internal Visit.
Like Jacob who saw Him face to face.
All of us have the same capablity and chance to see God within.

You don't have to tell me, I have experienced the Lord Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit. yes, face to face.

but don't ask me to describe his features, but one knows when they encounter him.

and yes he's REAL, very real.

PCY

 

[Phoneman777]

John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

"For unto us a child is born...His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the Prince of Peace..." - Isaiah

"Unless you believe that I AM ("he" was added by translators), ye shall die in your sins." - Jesus

Corroborating evidence from the OT and NT, and Jesus' warning comes down to us as well. Will we believe Him?

 

[101G]

"For unto us a child is born...His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the Prince of Peace..." - Isaiah

"Unless you believe that I AM ("he" was added by translators), ye shall die in your sins." - Jesus

Corroborating evidence from the OT and NT, and Jesus' warning comes down to us as well. Will we give believe Him?

100% that Child, that Son is called the "EVERLASTING FATHER". God word is true.

as for the "he" added, the translators are correct in adding the "HE". for the Lord Jesus himself said "he" in the OT. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.".

the "am" is italicized not he. in John, it's the reverse, John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things".

conclusion, when both are put together, they express the same "I AM HE". ... (smile).

Hope that helped.

PCY.

 

[bbyrd009]

kind of interesting that you misquoted a passage that actually makes the opposite point there 101

John 5:39 Lexicon: "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

hope this helped too

 

[Phoneman777]

100% that Child, that Son is called the "EVERLASTING FATHER". God word is true.

as for the "he" added, the translators are correct in adding the "HE". for the Lord Jesus himself said "he" in the OT. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.".

the "am" is italicized not he. in John, it's the reverse, John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things".

conclusion, when both are put together, they express the same "I AM HE". ... (smile).

Hope that helped.

PCY.

Thank you for your kind words. If you check the KJV, John 8:24 KJV has the "he" italicized. It actually reads "...believe that I AM, ye shall die in your sins." Jesus is proclaiming to APAK and the rest of us that He is the "I AM".

I'd love to sit down and go over with APAK all the verses that prove the Jesus of the NT was the exact same God as the God of the OT. For instance, the OT in Psalm 23 says "The Lord is my Shepherd", and Jesus said in John 10:11, "I AM the good Shepherd", and then in verse 16 He says there's only ONE Shepherd - not two shepherds - but ONE Shepherd. Praise God!

 

[Copperhead]

When in doubt, take a look at the enemies of Yeshua and what they thought He was claiming. There sure didn't seem any doubt in their minds who they thought He was claiming to be and at one point wanted to stone Him for it.

John 10:31-33 (NKJV) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 8:57-59 (NKJV) Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

And we look at these nuggets......

Isaiah 44:6 (NKJV) “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Revelation 2:8 (NKJV) “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

 

[APAK]

"For unto us a child is born...His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the Prince of Peace..." - Isaiah

"Unless you believe that I AM ("he" was added by translators), ye shall die in your sins." - Jesus

Corroborating evidence from the OT and NT, and Jesus' warning comes down to us as well. Will we believe Him?

Phoneman777:

(Isa 9:6) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.(ESV)

Point 1. Jesus is never called the “Everlasting Father” anywhere else in Scripture.

Point 2. The actual translation to the Greek was the word ‘eon’ and should have been translated ‘age’ or ‘the ages to come’ or ‘the world to come.’ There was never any word that translated to ‘everlasting’ or ‘without end.’ It is a serious mistranslation. Fortunately, half of the English Bible versions have corrected it.

Point 3. So, Jesus would be called father of the coming age.

And father is appropriate as it means specifically that he will be the first of the new believers of God. He actually fathered it and was the originator of the new people of God as new believers of the new Kingdom.

Point 4. We should also note that Jesus will be giving back the Kingdom to his father after the last age is completer per scripture.

See nothing to get worked up about.

It’s all good, there is no Jesus equating to God here.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@Phoneman777 ..forgot to address your other statement of 'I AM'

This is a previous response I gave to someone else although condensed..

The Hebrew and Greek original manuscripts were written in capital letter with no space or any punctuation whatsoever. Of course, this goes for any scripture under study. Now the mostly Trinitarian translators of the bible took liberty to capitalize and punctuate or not to capitalize or punctuate their letters and sentence they formed, as they saw fit. So, we must be careful and keep this always in our mind when we discuss any scripture.

Not only that, the translators also chose what words they would use from the original language or transitional languages. So, this I am could or should have been I am he etc. We must also understand there was some manipulation and bias in what we as English readers saw in their final product.

The words ‘I AM’ or ‘I am’ or ‘I am he/she’ or ‘it is me’ or ‘I am the one’ or ‘it was me’….verb…

Greek for ‘I am’ is ‘ego eimi ‘

Now Jesus used this ‘I am’ translated from Greek to Latin to English many times. It is even found in the OT translations and expressed deliberately for a cause. Some folks have even established because of this fact, that it must indicate or convey that Jesus is saying I am God Almighty. There is no basis for saying this at all. Of course, if we want to force a specific outcome in favor of this subjective data point or result we will believe it to be true all the time. It is like building a case out of conjecture rather than ‘in plain view’ facts.

Eventhough the expression “I AM” has variations for reasons already noted, and therefore can be ambiguous in its PRECISE English reading, like many in scripture, the MEANING is NEVER ambiguous to most people if no additional new meanings are deliberately attached to it. In modern language it can readily understood as ‘it is me’ or ‘it is really me (and no one else).’ The meaning of which has NO relationship to DIVINTY or God or Jesus as the expression. Any meaning that is really another secondary meaning as the prevalent thought is deliberately installed for a specific agenda and is false.

Like connecting scripture of the OT concerning God Almighty and in the NT when it was about Christ. They both say it is 'about me' like for other people of insignificance in scripture. It is an expression, NOT a code word for God Almighty. It is VERY Naïve for people to want to believe this nonsense.

Oh Jesus said I AM... oh he is God.. Oh Jesus = God....how thick as a brick some minds have become...It is pitiful.

APAK

 

[amadeus]

Jesus clearly taught that there is God the Father and that he is God the Son and he also talks about sending the Spirit so the trinitarian believe is reasonable.

Reasonable is not the word I would use. Until I know for certain, I would leave it as possible, while thinking in my own mind that it is unlikely. We do still live by faith, do we not? How much knowledge of the things of God do we have?

As a Christian doesn't the Spirit live in you? Aren't you seeking to be more like Jesus?

Absolutely yes to both questions.

There is unity because of common purpose, but there is also unity of nature.

And what my earlier post showed, I believe, is that if those two parts of scripture mean what most Trinitarians say it means, then a higher step in our progress would be us becoming a part of the godhead. I don't believe such a step exists and therefore I also lean strongly away from a belief in a Trinity.

Jesus is discribed as being The Creator, which means he is God, yet he identifies God the Father as being different from himself while also being the same.

I see the relationship between Jesus and the Father depicted in the type or shadow between Pharaoh and Joseph as stated here:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40

It is only a type or shadow so it is NOT a perfect description but it is as I see it being a better description of their relationship than any argument I have heard which favors the existence of a Trinity. Over the years I doubt that there is any argument or verse of scripture have not heard in this regard several times.

There are many other scriptures regarding this of which I am aware but going through them all again is unlikely to change my mind. While I am not rigidly immoveable in this I always remember what Apostle Paul wrote here:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

Yes, when it comes down to it, God alone gives any real increase in our faith or our knowledge. If we are too fixed in the correctness of our current position it could be well that we limit God when He would want to increase us.

Even if I were to agree that Jesus always was equal to and part of the Father in a Godhead, for me there would still no Holy Spirit apart from the Father as some separate person or entity. God is a Spirit and God is Holy. Why would we or should we divide the Father from the Holy Spirit?

 

[101G]

Thank you for your kind words. If you check the KJV, John 8:24 KJV has the "he" italicized. It actually reads "...believe that I AM, ye shall die in your sins." Jesus is proclaiming to APAK and the rest of us that He is the "I AM".

I'd love to sit down and go over with APAK all the verses that prove the Jesus of the NT was the exact same God as the God of the OT. For instance, the OT in Psalm 23 says "The Lord is my Shepherd", and Jesus said in John 10:11, "I AM the good Shepherd", and then in verse 16 He says there's only ONE Shepherd - not two shepherds - but ONE Shepherd. Praise God!

Thanks for the reply, yes I noted that, but in Isaiah 52:6 "he" is not italicized.

I'm in agreement with you there.

and yes there are many OT scriptures that states that Jesus is the OT God the Almighty. I'll give an example, 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

well, let's see who the ROCK is in the OT. Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God".

Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he".

there is the Rock = the LORD.

if you want to just post them.

PCY.