Jesus says look for these Signs to know when My Return is Near.

[Pipiripi]

Imitating is nothing more than parroting and "acting if"...it is CHANGE that is needed...not imitation.
God is "making man in His image and likeness"... not making a puppet that can just imitate Him.

What means walk in the footsteps of Christ? What are you doing there? Can you follow Jesus without His teachings? If you had done (imitate) what Jesus has done, than He is your MASTER. That is the work. And holding on what you been teached (theory) to have faith. Faith like you have without work is dead. And that faith comes from a teaching not from Jesus but from Hal Lindsey yours MASTER!

 

[Helen]

What means walk in the footsteps of Christ? What are you doing there? Can you follow Jesus without His teachings? If you had done (imitate) what Jesus has done, than He is your MASTER. That is the work. And holding on what you been teached (theory) to have faith. Faith like you have without work is dead. And that faith comes from a teaching not from Jesus but from Hal Lindsey yours MASTER!

I don't agree with the stuff that you post.
The LORD Jesus Christ is no longer a man who is 33 years old and walking this earth with long hair and wearing sandals. He is the Glorified Lord.
I don't worship Jesus of Nazareth the was, but the glorified Risen LORD.

 

[Naomi25]

Read and heed Acts 9 about Saul (Apostle Paul). English comprehension of that Acts 9 chapter means Jesus didn't have to make sure there was a verse there that said, "See, I converted Saul to Me, even when Saul was persecuting My Church; I intervened... and forced Saul to believe!"

Result of Jesus striking Saul (Paul) down on the road to Damascus? -- Saul believed on Jesus, and Jesus taught him The Gospel personally! Chosen Elect, is what that is proof of.

So didn't I mention that Acts 9 Scripture evidence to you? Yes, I believe I did.

I just showed you a major distinction, Paul being probably the greatest Bible example of a called and chosen elect, i.e., the "very elect" idea of Matthew 24:24 which began this discussion, which obviously you disregarded too. But here it is again...

Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

And I showed you this also, proving that some ALREADY have been told their future REWARDS, showing they are certainly the "very elect":

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Um. Yes. Yes I know Paul is elect. Thank you. Never doubted it, never questioned it, never asked you to prove it. I asked you to prove there was a distinct difference in salvation categories. Big difference.

It doesn't take an anvil to fall on me to understand Jesus was talking about two separate groups there in John 17. The distinction should be easy for anyone who has read much of God's Word:

A. the one's Jesus 'sent' that are not of this world = His Apostles, sent which means chosen; the "very elect"
B. those also who will believe on Jesus through their word (i.e., Apostles preaching of The Gospel) = those called only

A. represents Christ's ordained leadership over His Church on earth.
B. represents those who must come to Jesus by their own choice when hearing A. preach, and remain faithful to the end.
C. believers who can fall away from Jesus like Paul showed in his Epistles (2 Cor.11; 2 Thess.2, 1 Cor.5; Heb.6, etc.)

D. ???

E. Christ's elect in God's future Kingdom of the new heavens and a new earth = A. and B. and D. together

(D. represents those who come to Christ Jesus during His future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. That is the time when the unbelieving Jews will have their blinders removed that God put on them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles per Rom.11. Many, if not most of them, will then believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah. These who come to Jesus during that period must then be tested, which is why Satan will be loosed one final time to go tempt them along with the unbelieving nations, as per Rev.20:7-9).

Oh brother.
Ok. Look. You can try as hard as you like to point out what is not there. You can also try as hard as you like to ignore one simple verse that I have posted again and again that prove you wrong. Shall I post it again?

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be hold and blameless in his sight. - Eph 1:3-4

How do you explain Paul, talking to us, plain old 'called' as chosen, just like him? You can't! And every letter he writes is packed full of such references!

I'm sorry to make you doubt your salvation, because that's not my intention. Each believer should know exactly where they stand with our Heavenly Father and His Son. That is especially what prayer and study in His Word is for.

But at the same time, there's a lot of God's Word one would have to just throw away if we wanted to read only about those Scripture promises you mention. Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave many admonishings and blessings, but also many warnings against falling away. And that... especially is what the signs of the end before Jesus' return are about.

I well know how the deemed controversial parts of God's Holy Writ are often passed over in many Churches today. Don't want to hurt old ladies feelings, nor scare the kiddies, and the hireling doesn't want to upset the coffer. Christian Churches when I was young laid it out, letting the chips fall where they may, allowing our Heavenly Father and His Son to speak to His children through His Word.

Of course our faith is up to us. How can you twist that? But you're surely trying, and by that you're actually the one not making sense.

1 Cor 5:3-5
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

The judgment Paul made against that one was to cast him out of that Church. That latter part, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" is about Christ's future "thousand years" reign which begins on the "day of the Lord" (or 'day of Christ' in Phil.2:16, etc.)

The word 'judgment' is NOT... always synonomous with eternal hell fire! There are many judgments in God's Word that do not involve the casting into the "lake of fire". Paul's judgment in 1 Cor.5 is about casting that sinner out of that Church; Paul did not judge him to the lake of fire.

Some actually believe that Paul in a later 1 Corinthians chapter accepted that sinner back into the Church after he repented. Very possible. But that doesn't eliminate the fact that that particular sin got him cast out. And it's Paul who set that example as overseer of the Churches. Because Paul pointing to that one's spirit possibly being saved in the day of the Lord Jesus, that was his giving a lot of information that helps us interpret the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign. Jesus said He will forgive all manner of sin, except blasphemy against The Holy Spirit.

Davy, the day you start making me question my salvation, is the day I'll actually start thinking your ideas have merit....

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you explain Paul, talking to us, plain old 'called' as chosen, just like him? You can't! And every letter he writes is packed full of such references!

not to get involved there, but this is a dialectic technique used to invite ppl to consider themselves as belonging.
The result might be seen as "commending ourselves to each other"

 

[Davy]

Um. Yes. Yes I know Paul is elect. Thank you. Never doubted it, never questioned it, never asked you to prove it. I asked you to prove there was a distinct difference in salvation categories. Big difference.



Oh brother.
Ok. Look. You can try as hard as you like to point out what is not there. You can also try as hard as you like to ignore one simple verse that I have posted again and again that prove you wrong. Shall I post it again?

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be hold and blameless in his sight. - Eph 1:3-4

How do you explain Paul, talking to us, plain old 'called' as chosen, just like him? You can't! And every letter he writes is packed full of such references!

Davy, the day you start making me question my salvation, is the day I'll actually start thinking your ideas have merit....

Well, where you lack understanding when Paul is talking to the Church, admonishing us to remain faithful, even when he spoke of the idea of our having been elected from the foundation of the world like in Ephesians:

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

Is someone who falls away to that "another Jesus" a sign of a chosen "very elect"? Obviously not, otherwise they would not fall away from Christ Jesus!

So is that even possible... in your 'world view' you've been taught??? Can a believer on Christ Jesus fall away to worship that "another Jesus"?

If you say no, it's not possible, then you go against Apostle Paul giving that warning to the Church there.

In Revelation, the angel told John to 'take' the Book and eat it. And when John did, it was sweet as honey to the taste, but in his belly it was bitter. You have to learn to understand the bitter parts of God's Truth along with the sweet. You can't apply the sweet to all believers all the time.

2 Thess 2:1-5
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

The subject Paul begins here to the Thessalonians is the time of Christ's return and our gathering to Him.


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Some false ones apparently had been creating fake letters, and saying they were from Paul or other Apostles, and then spreading them around in the Church. So by those false letters they likely preached against the future event of Christ's return and gathering of the Church which Paul had already told them about at a prior time. (The "day of Christ" there is actually the OT phrase 'day of the Lord'. The Greek word Christos for Christ is not in the manuscripts. Instead it's the Greek word kurios, which means 'lord'.)


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
KJV

The Greek for "a falling away" is the Greek word 'apostasia'. It's where our English word apostasy comes from. That apostasy is real, and Paul warned Timothy that it would come:

1 Tim 4:1-2
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV

2 Tim 3:1-7
3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
KJV

2 Tim 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

So you can dream on with your thinking that since Paul said we who have believed on Jesus have been chosen from the foundation of the world applies to all believers, but that's just not so, otherwise Paul would not have taken the time to tell Timothy that in the latter days many brethren are going to fall away. A chosen one cannot be deceived, cannot fall away. One called only can... fall away.

 

[Naomi25]

You know, even if I were going, for a moment, to consider any of your arguments for "Christian one moment, then not" valid...which I'm not, because they aren't. You still haven't (and can't, because they are not there) given anything that points to two distinct categories in salvational classes. And I don't care what you want to call it. Or what spin you want to put on it. Or what odd verse you think will back it. It's. Not. There.
I think I'm about done here. Have fun trying to live up to a standard that's not there...unless you think you're one of the special chosen.
It's been fun...cheers.

 

[Davy]

You know, even if I were going, for a moment, to consider any of your arguments for "Christian one moment, then not" valid...which I'm not, because they aren't. You still haven't (and can't, because they are not there) given anything that points to two distinct categories in salvational classes. And I don't care what you want to call it. Or what spin you want to put on it. Or what odd verse you think will back it. It's. Not. There.
I think I'm about done here. Have fun trying to live up to a standard that's not there...unless you think you're one of the special chosen.
It's been fun...cheers.

Then you must be a Universalist, because they believe everybody who has ever believed on Christ Jesus can never fall away. As a matter of fact today, there appears to be more mega-Churches teaching that, having fun, don't need to be watching, just laugh it up and have a party, and they skip over those warnings from the Apostles about the great falling away when Antichrist gets here that Paul warned of.

"Those who can't be counseled can't be helped." Benjamin Franklin.

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus says look for these Signs to know when My Return is Near.

Rapture (catching up of believers)

Take heed that no man deceives you

Matthew 24:5 – Many false Christs shall come and deceive many

6 – Wars and rumors of wars, but this is not the end yet

7 – Nations shall rise up against each other. Famines, pestilence, and earthquakes in divers’ places

8 – All these are the beginnings of sorrows

9 – Christian persecution grows, we believers are hated by all nations for the sake of Christ

10 – People will be highly offended, people will betray one another and hate each other.

11 – Many false prophets will rise and deceive many.

12 Because people are immoral and their grossly unfair behavior, man’s love will wax cold

13 – But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 – And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus tells us about the future, and tells us the great tribulation will be such as not been seen since the beginning of the world.

22 – And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

23 -25 – Christ warns about more false Christs, false prophets and many showing great signs and wonders, so much so that these people will deceive the very elect, us… Christians. Don’t believe the false Christs no matter what.

29 – After the tribulation the sun will be darkened, the moon shall be dark and stars fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

30 – And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 – And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 – Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 – So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the door.

we are the final generation. Are you ready to meet Jesus as your Lord and Savior OR as your final Judge??

Thought rapture had no signs

 

[brakelite]

represents those who come to Christ Jesus during His future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Every time I see a doctrine/belief that suggests a "second chance" for those who first deny or reject the gospel, I cringe. The rapture offers a second chance for those "left behind". False. The earthly millenium offers a second chance for those who reject the gospel previously. False. Puragtory offers a second chance for those who die in their sin. False. The Bible says, "it is appointed unto men once to die...then the judgement. No second chances. Today is the day of salvation. Fool, do you not know that this very night your soul is required of thee?

 

[Davy]

Every time I see a doctrine/belief that suggests a "second chance" for those who first deny or reject the gospel, I cringe. The rapture offers a second chance for those "left behind". False. The earthly millenium offers a second chance for those who reject the gospel previously. False. Puragtory offers a second chance for those who die in their sin. False. The Bible says, "it is appointed unto men once to die...then the judgement. No second chances. Today is the day of salvation. Fool, do you not know that this very night your soul is required of thee?

No such thing as a second chance in Christ's future Milennium reign. Those who come to Jesus in that future will be those who never had their first chance to hear The Gospel with eyes to see and ears to hear.

You must be one of those who refuse to believe Apostle Paul in Romans 11 concerning God having blinded Israel in part from The Gospel so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, and that in the times of fullness of the Gentiles that blindness would be removed, and they would be saved:

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
KJV

It must hurt your brain even to read that Scripture there by Apostle Paul.

That removal of their blindness by God won't happen until Christ's return. That is why Scripture like Zechariah 12 and Luke 23 shows the unbelieving Jews will mourn for Jesus when He appears, and will even want for the hills and rocks to fall on them because of their shame at His appearance.

Zech 12:9-10
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
KJV

That Zech.12:9-10 Scripture is about Jesus' return, not His 1st coming. That destruction of the nations that come against Jerusalem happens on the final day of this present world.

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

So much for your "second chance" theory.

 

[brakelite]

So much for your "second chance" theory.

If the gospel is preached to all the world before the second coming, as per Revelation 14:6-12 , then it's a second chance. It's false not just for that reason, but also because the millenium isn't on the earth. Jesus takes HIs church to heaven with Him when He comes, then everyone comes to earth in the New Jerusalem at the end of the millenium. Check it out.

 

[Davy]

If the gospel is preached to all the world before the second coming, as per Revelation 14:6-12 , then it's a second chance. It's false not just for that reason, but also because the millenium isn't on the earth. Jesus takes HIs church to heaven with Him when He comes, then everyone comes to earth in the New Jerusalem at the end of the millenium. Check it out.

Like I said before, you REFUSE what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about God having blinded Israel in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

What you especially fail to understand from that is this: GOD HIMSELF MUST FIRST REMOVE THEIR BLINDNESS, since He is Who put the blindness to The Gospel upon them!

Yet the ignorance of those who refuse to heed what Paul said in Romans 11 about that means they will keep on going with their wrongly thinking all the unbelieving Jews are doomed to the pit of hell, and that they can never be saved in Christ's Milennium.

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

That Paul said about the believer at the Church in Corinth who was having sex with his own mother. But why would Paul say, "... that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"?

You have insinuated that no one... can be saved in Christ's future Milennium. Even that one Paul cast out of that Church can be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus, which is about Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

One of the biggest days of Christ's Salvation is going to be with the unbelieving Jews in that future Milennium that will then believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ once God has removed their blindness to The Gospel.

 

[n2thelight]

Every time I see a doctrine/belief that suggests a "second chance" for those who first deny or reject the gospel, I cringe. The rapture offers a second chance for those "left behind". False. The earthly millenium offers a second chance for those who reject the gospel previously. False. Puragtory offers a second chance for those who die in their sin. False. The Bible says, "it is appointed unto men once to die...then the judgement. No second chances. Today is the day of salvation. Fool, do you not know that this very night your soul is required of thee?

You're wrong,as the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God,without the influence of satan..

 

[Jay Ross]

You're wrong, as the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God,without the influence of Satan..

You are right when you say, "the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God, without the influence of Satan."

It is a 1,000 year period of time where Satan has no direct means of influencing the nations of this world, except through his Good and Faithful Servants that he will empowered before he is imprisoned, to continue oppressing the people, while he is absent and in the abyss.

 

[Stranger]

You're wrong,as the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God,without the influence of satan..

Where is the Scripture for this?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You are right when you say, "the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God, without the influence of Satan."

It is a 1,000 year period of time where Satan has no direct means of influencing the nations of this world, except through his Good and Faithful Servants that he will empowered before he is imprisoned, to continue oppressing the people, while he is absent and in the abyss.

Where is the Scripture for this; that Satan empowers his servants to oppress while he is imprisoned?

Stranger

 

[Jay Ross]

There are two parable, one in Luke 19 and the other in Matthew 25 which tells us this.

 

[Helen]

There are two parable, one in Luke 19 and the other in Matthew 25 which tells us this.

Great reading...but even with a long stretch I can't make them refer to the millennial reign of Christ at all.
I think you are on a sticky spot there....
Try something else .

As I read scripture , the 1000 years is the reign of Christ ..and all of the enemies works are bound, with him and his demonic legions.

Bless you...H

 

[Jay Ross]

Great reading...but even with a long stretch I can't make them refer to the millennial reign of Christ at all.
I think you are on a sticky spot there....
Try something else .

As I read scripture , the 1000 years is the reign of Christ ..and all of the enemies works are bound, with him and his demonic legions.

Bless you...H

ByGrace, both the Parable of the Mina and the Talents speak of Satan giving his good and faithful servants money with which to use to oppress the peoples of the earth while he, Satan, is locked up in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years. I pointed out a couple of months ago that these two parables are not about Christ, but about what Satan will get his good and faithful servants to do during the time that he is locked up in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

This is the basis of my statement which I posted in support of n2thelight's post

You're wrong, as the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God,without the influence of Satan..

 

[n2thelight]

You are right when you say, "the purpose of the millennium is to learn the true Word of God, without the influence of Satan."

It is a 1,000 year period of time where Satan has no direct means of influencing the nations of this world, except through his Good and Faithful Servants that he will empowered before he is imprisoned, to continue oppressing the people, while he is absent and in the abyss.

Nope ,that's not right either as his(satans)angels will die at the return of Christ,nobody will be influenced until he is released

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

The 7000 are his(satans) angels that fought with Michael and his angels

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

At the end of the Millennium,those that didn't overcome will have a choice to make,satan or God

Those who didn't overcome are called the dead