JESUS: The End of All Laws, Rules, Commandments and Religions

[Bob Estey]

At that rate you'll change religions every time you change your mind, - LOL

No, I just thought your question was strange. You asked, "Who gave us our conscience?" Well, I think God IS our conscience, so it seemed strange that you should ask, "Who gave us our conscience?"

 

[St. SteVen]

No, I just thought your question was strange. You asked, "Who gave us our conscience?" Well, I think God IS our conscience, so it seemed strange that you should ask, "Who gave us our conscience?"

I was trying to understand why you objected to me calling it our God-given conscience. And this is what I get. - LOL

 

[Bob Estey]

I was trying to understand why you objected to me calling it our God-given conscience. And this is what I get. - LOL

You talk about a God-given conscience as if it were something besides God himself.

 

[St. SteVen]

You talk about a God-given conscience as if it were something besides God himself.

I agree.
Can you convince me otherwise?

How is it that our God-given human conscience is anything but God-given?
Where else would we get it?

 

[St. SteVen]

You talk about a God-given conscience as if it were something besides God himself.

Let's try this from your perspective.

What does it mean for God to be our conscience?

We agreed that he is not the one only speaking in our mind.
Is he sharing our conscience with our enemy?

 

[Bob Estey]

I agree.
Can you convince me otherwise?

How is it that our God-given human conscience is anything but God-given?
Where else would we get it?

You refer to "conscience" as if it were a thing, but a "conscience" is actually God, I believe, and God is not a thing.

 

[Bob Estey]

Let's try this from your perspective.

What does it mean for God to be our conscience?

We agreed that he is not the one only speaking in our mind.
Is he sharing our conscience with our enemy?

We keep using the word "conscience," but we are actually talking about God, I believe.

 

[St. SteVen]

We keep using the word "conscience," but we are actually talking about God, I believe.

Fair enough.
Let's frame this more to your liking.

Why would God tell us to transform our minds if he was already our conscience?

Romans 12:2 NET
Do not be conformed[a] to this present world,[b] but be transformed by
the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve[c] what is the
will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.

 

[Bob Estey]

Fair enough.
Let's frame this more to your liking.

Why would God tell us to transform our minds if he was already our conscience?

Romans 12:2 NET
Do not be conformed[a] to this present world,[b] but be transformed by
the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve[c] what is the
will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.

Because we need to transform our minds.

 

[BarneyFife]

It was probably 15 or 20 years ago that a Seventh Day Adventist asked me why I was only keeping 9 of the Ten Commandments.
I had never heard that question before. But I came back pretty quickly to inform him that we Christians are not under the law.

This began a decade long debate on that particular forum. I learned a lot from my study in defense of my position.
Turns out that this particular SDA person wasn't too fond of my rebuttals. He had some choice words for me.

Then some COG (Armstrongism) folks join the fray. So, I had to educate myself on that business.
So, I have been at war against Sabbatarianism for a decade or two.

I won't trivialize your words here by presuming to apologize for what I could probably pretty accurately imagine you endured at the hands of these folks.

I don't like to perpetuate the "those were the days"/"old fogey" stereotype, but there truly is a lot that could be done to improve the spiritual state of the church by merely erasing the last 100 years or so. People used to be content with having to do slow and persevering work to influence others for good.

It's really sad that we find ourselves in a religious climate where witnessing for Christ has undergone the same instant gratification/drive-thru change in sensibilities that the world at large has.

And I dare say that some have graduated even to "drive-by" witnessing.

I wish I could say that I've always abstained from this kind of thing.

I went to a week-long lay evangelist training seminar in '92 that was geared toward studying Christ's actual method of reaching people and it was a watershed in my understanding of the Gospel.

Before that time I didn't realize that He wasn't too interested in satisfying people's curiosity about religion. It seems that He was more interested in meeting people's true needs, whether they even realized what they were or not so that they would be able to see through the barriers of prejudice and suspicion that we (understandably) build up, and see Him as someone who actually loved their souls. Then He could freely impart to them the words of life with little hindrance.

Most of the people He dealt with were Jews and, alas, I still too often default to a defensive mode of fellowship with other Christians. It seems that the hardest lessons are the ones we have to unlearn.

.

 

[Robert Pate]

I won't trivialize your words here by presuming to apologize for what I could probably pretty accurately imagine you endured at the hands of these folks.

I don't like to perpetuate the "those were the days"/"old fogey" stereotype, but there truly is a lot that could be done to improve the spiritual state of the church by merely erasing the last 100 years or so. People used to be content with having to do slow and persevering work to influence others for good.

It's really sad that we find ourselves in a religious climate where witnessing for Christ has undergone the same instant gratification/drive-thru change in sensibilities that the world at large has.

And I dare say that some have graduated even to "drive-by" witnessing.

I wish I could say that I've always abstained from this kind of thing.

I went to a week-long lay evangelist training seminar in '92 that was geared toward studying Christ's actual method of reaching people and it was a watershed in my understanding of the Gospel.

Before that time I didn't realize that He wasn't too interested in satisfying people's curiosity about religion. It seems that He was more interested in meeting people's true needs, whether they even realized what they were or not so that they would be able to see through the barriers of prejudice and suspicion that we (understandably) build up, and see Him as someone who actually loved their souls. Then He could freely impart to them the words of life with little hindrance.

Most of the people He dealt with were Jews and, alas, I still too often default to a defensive mode of fellowship with other Christians. It seems that the hardest lessons are the ones we have to unlearn.

.

I also went to some of those seminars. I found it to be a waste of time. There was no Gospel in any of it. My best experience about witnessing was with "Christians-in-Action". I went with a trained missionary and learned to confront people on the streets of Los Angeles with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It was the most rewarding experience of my life. "Christians-in- Action" is a Pentecostal group. I am not a Pentecostal, but they really did help me to be a bold witness for Christ and his Gospel.

 

[St. SteVen]

Because we need to transform our minds.

I agree.
Does God (our conscience) share space with the enemy in our mind?
How does transforming our mind affect that?

 

[Bob Estey]

I agree.
Does God (our conscience) share space with the enemy in our mind?
How does transforming our mind affect that?

I've heard it said Satan isn't in our minds. I've heard it said that Satan no longer exists - or has any influence. I think he is in our minds, so we have to be mature enough to understand when he is trying to influence us by tempting us, frightening us, or whatever else he is trying to do.

Transforming our mind would mean developing that maturity, and also recognizing when the Lord is communicating with us.

 

[Robert Pate]

I've heard it said Satan isn't in our minds. I've heard it said that Satan no longer exists - or has any influence. I think he is in our minds, so we have to be mature enough to understand when he is trying to influence us by tempting us, frightening us, or whatever else he is trying to do.

Transforming our mind would mean developing that maturity, and also recognizing when the Lord is communicating with us.

As long as we are still here on this earth in our Adamic bodies we will be subject to the wiles of the devil, Romans 8:21-27.