How come nobody else got knocked down when Jesus said ego eimi? He said it a bunch of times.
John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?
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You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:
- Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
- You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
- You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being. - People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
- YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
- According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
- You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
- You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
- You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
- Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
- Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".
So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.
The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).
Therefore, you are a wickedly dangerous and unreliable source.
The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Not boy are you reading into what God does, you are reading into WHO God is. Jesus is not God.
You know Jesus died and God is eternally unchanging, right?
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Apparently God had His reasons. Take it up with Him.
What is your juvenile logic? That because God did not knock others to the ground, when speaking as Jesus at other times, that this event didn't really take place?
I approach all these discussions on the basis of proof in a court of law. So make your case to the judge for me here.
"Judge, because this happened for certain once, but not at other times, I submit to you that we allow the record to reflect that it couldn't have happened here either - regardless of the evidence that it did."
Would it go a little something like that?
What is your point that you're desperately struggling to make - while clearly not having any point at all?
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
You and Soul Wrangler are trying hard to use this as a defense of your position that Jesus is not God. Let's look at each and every verse specifically where Jesus actually said "I AM."
If I'm not mistaken, this event where Jesus knocked down the Roman Soldiers by saying it is the ONLY event where He simply said "I AM."
Are not all the others statements that actually said something else?
Like "I am the Bread of Life."
or "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." , etc.?
Serve up the verses you would like to use to discredit this event and we'll dismantle them one at a time.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Serve up the verses.
Your claims are worth less than nothing without Scripture to support your desperate case here.
I see it's quite impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you. I tried my best to work with you, but to no avail. I'll be blocking any further comments from you.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
God
God in his unitarian nature
God in his unitarian nature, not "the Father"
God, not "the Father, but God" in his unitarian nature so loved the world
God, not "the Father, but God" in his unitarian nature so loved the world that he gave
God, not "the Father, but God" in his unitarian nature so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.
This juxtapostion of Jesus and God proves your doctrine false over and over again throughout Scripture. IF your doctrine had one bit of truth to it, there would not be one single verse juxtaposing God with Jesus but there are many.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
That's a wise decision to cut ties with anyone who makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.
Can't answer the questions that clearly prove your position wrong, so head for the hills.
I get it.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
It's all about perspective.
If you're standing in the midst of the trees, you can't possibly see the whole forest.
You've been given all the pieces to the puzzle, but you still can't seem to fit 'em all together to see the bigger picture.
I pray that is only temporary.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrong. It is about the reality that God - in his unitarian nature - so loved and gave. Not “the Father” who gave his son.
An inconvenient truth
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
You really don't get it, do you.
You've lost.
You've been handily defeated by God's Word.
You awoke to an army of dead men and had to tuck tail and return home.
Your false 'Father-Only' nonsense position is kaput.
You're done.
Acting like nothing's changed now is just adding insult to your mortal wound.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL. Projecting, you are. Not able to respond to significance of many verses juxtaposing God compared to Jesus.
Gods word just does not relate to your man-is-god doctrine.
Still, rather than attack me personally, I would like to hear your explanation of many verses juxtaposing God - in his unitarian nature - compared to Jesus.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
A number of trinitarians couple John 8:58 with John 18: 1-6 where the officers and soldiers fell down when Jesus identified himself by saying ego eimi.
Noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson asks what caused these hundreds of officers and soldiers to fall. One suggestion was "supernatural power exerted by Jesus" (which seems most likely). He continues by admitting that one of the very oldest complete manuscripts (300's A.D.), Uncial Manuscript B, "adds Iesous which must mean simply: 'I am Jesus.'" - Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 284, vol. v.
In addition, the very trinitarian United Bible Societies notes for the use of ego eimi at John 18:5:
"In considering the variant readings of this verse it must be recalled that normally scribes contracted the name 'Iesous' [Jesus] to IC. On the one hand, it is possible that, if ho Iesous ['the Jesus' or OIC in contracted form] stood originally after AUTOIC [as found in manuscript B], the words may have been accidentally omitted through an oversight in transcription (AUTOICOIC)"
This is the reason that the UBS assigned an accuracy rating (how likely the term they chose as the one to use in their text is to be the original term) of "C."
This means, according to their rating system, that using ego eimi as what was originally written by the inspired writer has "considerable degree of doubt." - p. 251, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, UBS, 1971.
Dr. William Barclay, noted trinitarian NT scholar and translator, also tells us about this incident:
"The officers, therefore, were the Jewish police force. But there was a band of Roman soldiers there too." He continues by telling us that even if we take the smallest number of Roman soldiers indicated by the NT Greek words used, it would still amount to two hundred men. - p. 222, The Gospel of John, vol. 2, The Daily Study Bible Series, Westminster Press, 1975.
Barclay explains the event: "(ii) It shows us his [Jesus'] authority. There he was, one single, lonely, unarmed figure; there they were, hundreds of them, armed and equipped. Yet face to face with him, they retreated and fell to the ground. There flowed from Jesus an authority which in all his loneliness made him stronger than the might of his enemies. (iii) It shows us that Jesus chose to die. Here again it is clear that he could have escaped death if he so wished." - p. 223.
There is this to be recognized from Barclay's information:
Two hundred (at least) Roman soldiers were there who probably didn't understand Jesus' language. And even if they did understand, they surely wouldn't understand that a mistranslation of a Jewish OT word (ehyeh, Heb. or ho own, Sept.) meant that Jesus was claiming to be God (nor would they even care if he really did claim to be that Jewish God).
And yet, these, 200 Roman soldiers were tumbled over along with the others. It could not be because they recognized ego eimi as meaning Jesus was really the true God of the universe! These were Roman soldiers!
It must be, as suggested, that Jesus (or the Father in heaven) applied an actual force to knock them down to show that Jesus could escape them if he so wished.
It should be noted that the following trinitarian-translated Bibles translate this as Jesus saying, “I am he”: KJV; ASV; NIV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; and the majority of others. This would not have happened if those noted trinitarian translators and scholars had believed ego eimi here was being used as a name for God.
Noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson asks what caused these hundreds of officers and soldiers to fall. One suggestion was "supernatural power exerted by Jesus" (which seems most likely). He continues by admitting that one of the very oldest complete manuscripts (300's A.D.), Uncial Manuscript B, "adds Iesous which must mean simply: 'I am Jesus.'" - Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 284, vol. v.
In addition, the very trinitarian United Bible Societies notes for the use of ego eimi at John 18:5:
"In considering the variant readings of this verse it must be recalled that normally scribes contracted the name 'Iesous' [Jesus] to IC. On the one hand, it is possible that, if ho Iesous ['the Jesus' or OIC in contracted form] stood originally after AUTOIC [as found in manuscript B], the words may have been accidentally omitted through an oversight in transcription (AUTOICOIC)"
This is the reason that the UBS assigned an accuracy rating (how likely the term they chose as the one to use in their text is to be the original term) of "C."
This means, according to their rating system, that using ego eimi as what was originally written by the inspired writer has "considerable degree of doubt." - p. 251, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, UBS, 1971.
Dr. William Barclay, noted trinitarian NT scholar and translator, also tells us about this incident:
"The officers, therefore, were the Jewish police force. But there was a band of Roman soldiers there too." He continues by telling us that even if we take the smallest number of Roman soldiers indicated by the NT Greek words used, it would still amount to two hundred men. - p. 222, The Gospel of John, vol. 2, The Daily Study Bible Series, Westminster Press, 1975.
Barclay explains the event: "(ii) It shows us his [Jesus'] authority. There he was, one single, lonely, unarmed figure; there they were, hundreds of them, armed and equipped. Yet face to face with him, they retreated and fell to the ground. There flowed from Jesus an authority which in all his loneliness made him stronger than the might of his enemies. (iii) It shows us that Jesus chose to die. Here again it is clear that he could have escaped death if he so wished." - p. 223.
There is this to be recognized from Barclay's information:
Two hundred (at least) Roman soldiers were there who probably didn't understand Jesus' language. And even if they did understand, they surely wouldn't understand that a mistranslation of a Jewish OT word (ehyeh, Heb. or ho own, Sept.) meant that Jesus was claiming to be God (nor would they even care if he really did claim to be that Jewish God).
And yet, these, 200 Roman soldiers were tumbled over along with the others. It could not be because they recognized ego eimi as meaning Jesus was really the true God of the universe! These were Roman soldiers!
It must be, as suggested, that Jesus (or the Father in heaven) applied an actual force to knock them down to show that Jesus could escape them if he so wished.
It should be noted that the following trinitarian-translated Bibles translate this as Jesus saying, “I am he”: KJV; ASV; NIV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; and the majority of others. This would not have happened if those noted trinitarian translators and scholars had believed ego eimi here was being used as a name for God.
face2face
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Keiw
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Only in your delusion. SEE the truth-Psalm 45:7-Jesus has a God---his partners= angels--Heb 1:3,4-- God gave Jesus the name above other names, but there at HEB its clear--if he didnt get that name was = to the angels. And in Isaiah called Mighty God-it says his NAME will be called those things.
You Russellians are literary fools in an incapable state to Truthfully (John 14:6) and Spiritually discern grammar in the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14); moreover, the Russellians (Watchtower Society people and similar types) prove their linguistic deceptions about the Christ in their writings, and the following items display your wickedly broken translation efforts and evil interpretations of scripture
@Keiw
You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:
- You wickedly and publicly point out Jesus to be a liar according to your writings.
- Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
- You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
- You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being. - People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
- YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
- According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
- You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
- You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
- You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
- Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
- Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".
So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.
The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).
Therefore, you are an evil source headed for damnation in your current state.
The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).
face2face
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Where in those quotes do you get the Trinity?
Take John 8:58 the answer is one of preeminence, not preexistence...surely you can see this from the context of John 8:56! You dont for a minute believe Jesus was teaching the Jews he was older than Abraham...lol that's twisting the Lord's teaching if I ever I've seen!
This interaction is about forseeing the Gospel as preached to Abraham. Galatians 3:8
He "saw" the day of Christ through the eye of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but manifest in these last times" as per 1 Peter 1:20. He was foreordained in the divine purpose, but not formed! Similarly in the divine purpose he was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8) but literally he was not slain until his crucifixion in the time of Pilate.
Com'on Kermos show a little integrity to the record.
F2F
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face2face
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It wasn't the knock out punch you were expecting and now you are left with "Do I continue to defend my false position on this passage and keep swinging, or admit I got that wrong?"
But seriously putting away your wild lefty - can you see the way the Lord protects his disciples in that section? they were immature at best and not ready to withstand what was coming upon the Lord. Jesus did not revile and to suggest so is hurting the record dont you think?
F2F
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