John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Keiw]

You Russellians are literary fools in an incapable state to Truthfully (John 14:6) and Spiritually discern grammar in the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14); moreover, the Russellians (Watchtower Society people and similar types) prove their linguistic deceptions about the Christ in their writings, and the following items display your wickedly broken translation efforts and evil interpretations of scripture

@Keiw

You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• You wickedly and publicly point out Jesus to be a liar according to your writings.
• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
• You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an evil source headed for damnation in your current state.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

Sad to see one that wants to love God is being mislead to not enter Gods kingdom. Jesus said--Hallowed be thy(Father) name=YHWH(Jehovah)--there is no other name that fits in that teaching, yet you refuse to believe Jesus, i am glad my teachers do. Jesus teaches--The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD( John 17:3) But again you refuse to believe Jesus i am glad my teachers do. Fact-Every real follower believes Jesus.

 

[GEN2REV]

You assumed dishonor.

Yes, it's dishonorable in today's society to speak the Truth, especially if it discredits the popular lies.

I don't live by modern PC standards of speech.

Neither did Jesus.

 

[GEN2REV]

A number of trinitarians couple John 8:58 with John 18: 1-6 where the officers and soldiers fell down when Jesus identified himself by saying ego eimi.

Noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson asks what caused these hundreds of officers and soldiers to fall. One suggestion was "supernatural power exerted by Jesus" (which seems most likely). He continues by admitting that one of the very oldest complete manuscripts (300's A.D.), Uncial Manuscript B, "adds Iesous which must mean simply: 'I am Jesus.'" - Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 284, vol. v.

In addition, the very trinitarian United Bible Societies notes for the use of ego eimi at John 18:5:

"In considering the variant readings of this verse it must be recalled that normally scribes contracted the name 'Iesous' [Jesus] to IC. On the one hand, it is possible that, if ho Iesous ['the Jesus' or OIC in contracted form] stood originally after AUTOIC [as found in manuscript B], the words may have been accidentally omitted through an oversight in transcription (AUTOICOIC)"

This is the reason that the UBS assigned an accuracy rating (how likely the term they chose as the one to use in their text is to be the original term) of "C."

This means, according to their rating system, that using ego eimi as what was originally written by the inspired writer has "considerable degree of doubt." - p. 251, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, UBS, 1971.

Dr. William Barclay, noted trinitarian NT scholar and translator, also tells us about this incident:

"The officers, therefore, were the Jewish police force. But there was a band of Roman soldiers there too." He continues by telling us that even if we take the smallest number of Roman soldiers indicated by the NT Greek words used, it would still amount to two hundred men. - p. 222, The Gospel of John, vol. 2, The Daily Study Bible Series, Westminster Press, 1975.

Barclay explains the event: "(ii) It shows us his [Jesus'] authority. There he was, one single, lonely, unarmed figure; there they were, hundreds of them, armed and equipped. Yet face to face with him, they retreated and fell to the ground. There flowed from Jesus an authority which in all his loneliness made him stronger than the might of his enemies. (iii) It shows us that Jesus chose to die. Here again it is clear that he could have escaped death if he so wished." - p. 223.

There is this to be recognized from Barclay's information:

Two hundred (at least) Roman soldiers were there who probably didn't understand Jesus' language. And even if they did understand, they surely wouldn't understand that a mistranslation of a Jewish OT word (ehyeh, Heb. or ho own, Sept.) meant that Jesus was claiming to be God (nor would they even care if he really did claim to be that Jewish God).

And yet, these, 200 Roman soldiers were tumbled over along with the others. It could not be because they recognized ego eimi as meaning Jesus was really the true God of the universe! These were Roman soldiers!

It must be, as suggested, that Jesus (or the Father in heaven) applied an actual force to knock them down to show that Jesus could escape them if he so wished.

It should be noted that the following trinitarian-translated Bibles translate this as Jesus saying, “I am he”: KJV; ASV; NIV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; and the majority of others. This would not have happened if those noted trinitarian translators and scholars had believed ego eimi here was being used as a name for God.

So you're saying Jesus knocked them all down by the power of His Words.

Why would Soul Wrangler 'Like' that post?

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus did not revile and to suggest so is hurting the record dont you think?

Out of left field?

Sure.

Who suggested that?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You Russellians are literary fools in an incapable state to Truthfully (John 14:6) and Spiritually discern grammar in the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14); moreover, the Russellians (Watchtower Society people and similar types) prove their linguistic deceptions about the Christ in their writings, and the following items display your wickedly broken translation efforts and evil interpretations of scripture

@Keiw

You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• You wickedly and publicly point out Jesus to be a liar according to your writings.
• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
• You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an evil source headed for damnation in your current state.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

Are you finished pontificating? You sound like a Pharisee.....you judge and yet you yourself will experience with the same judgment.....
You continually call people liars, but what if it is lies that you yourself are promoting? Would you even know? Are you so sure that the devil cannot deceive you, as you assume he has deceived all of us who see the scriptures as saying the complete opposite to what you assume that they say?

We can let Jesus do his job...he is the judge, and I am sure he needs no help from someone who is as self righteous and judgmental as you present yourself to be.

 

[face2face]

Out of left field?

Sure.

Who suggested that?

You implied somehow that Christ knock these soldiers over on purpose...not his style!

 

[Kermos]

 Are you finished pontificating? You sound like a Pharisee.....you judge and yet you yourself will experience with the same judgment.....

You continually call people liars, but what if it is lies that you yourself are promoting? Would you even know? Are you so sure that the devil cannot deceive you, as you assume he has deceived all of us who see the scriptures as saying the complete opposite to what you assume that they say?


We can let Jesus do his job...he is the judge, and I am sure he needs no help from someone who is as self righteous and judgmental as you present yourself to be.

@Aunty Jane and all you JW (Jellyfish Worshippers, it looks magnificent floating through the oceans but it falls apart, decays, rots, and stinks in the bright sunlight on the shore),

The Truth (John 14:6) has been proclaimed to you, and in a single post, you expose a multitude of Watchtower Society people's deception:

• From Apostolic testimony, the Word of God reveals Jesus as truly God and truly Man at His discretion, and the children of God do so according to the Holy Spirit, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Greek grammar very specifically results in the Apostle Paul calling Jesus "the great God" in Titus 2:13, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Your heart corrupts Apostolic testimony because you added words into Paul's words, so you deny tte Truth (John 14:6) that Paul wrote as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" in John 20:28, yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, there is One True God, and no other true gods exist (The figure of speech called an oxymoron respecting "you are gods" (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34) and "many gods" (1 Corinthians 8:5)), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• From Apostolic testimony, the Names of God are precious to Christians, and this includes the Name of God "Immanuel" for in this Name is our blessed Salvation (Matthew 1:23) - "Salvation belongs to YHWH" (Psalm 3:8), yet you vainly use the Names of God, so you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• The Word, Jesus, is everlasting God (John 1:1, Psalm 119:89), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) by thinking the Word is "a god" as shown in this linked post.
• God's memorial-name to all generations is the ever-present "I AM" according to accurately translated Scripture from the Tanakh (Exodus 3:14), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Jesus declares in no uncertain terms that He is uncreated with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• YHWH is God's Holy Name, yet you think Jehovah, a name intentionally removed from God's Holy Name, is God's name as shown in this linked post.
• Jesus being "the Beginning of the creation of God" (Revelation 3:14) refers to Jesus being the starting point Creator God of all the Assembly of God, that is, the creation of God - not that Jesus was created for He did not say "I am the first created being of the creation of God" (your conjuring), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• Your heart's "Jesus is not I AM" treasure is false because the Word of God says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24) thus Jesus proclaims that He is "I AM" - THAT HE IS YHWH GOD (EXODUS 3:14), yet you deny this Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.
• The One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is Spirit (John 4:24), and the One True God exists as the person of the Father (John 17:11, Romans 1:7) and the person of Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58) and the person of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, Acts 5:3-4), yet you deny this Holy Truth (John 14:6) as shown in this linked post.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[GEN2REV]

You implied somehow that Christ knock these soldiers over on purpose...not his style!

Nah, His power just got away from Him a little bit.

All kidding aside, there's a fascinating detail to the event of Him healing the blind man. If you take another look at the Scripture, Jesus healed him too much on His first try, causing the man to see into the spirit realm. With a second attempt, He had to recalibrate the man's vision back to normal human vision.

Take a look at it again in the KJV.

Mark 8:22-25 (KJV)

Many assume that Jesus didn't heal the man enough, or fully, but it was just the opposite. He healed Him too much and had to back it off a bit so the man wouldn't lose his mind seeing constantly into the spirit realm.

If you're familiar at all with the teachings of Enoch, he told of how the Giants that were tormenting the earth in the Antediluvian era were punished by God. God caused their deaths and decreed that they would be stuck here upon the earth between heaven and hell. Destined to wander the earth as the demons that we know now who fight against all that is good.

When this man's eyes were healed, Jesus asked him if he could see anything and he said, "... I see men as trees, walking." Then Jesus put His hands upon his eyes again and the man saw clearly in the physical realm.

 

[Kermos]

Kermos,

You inference that Christ could not be a created being because he is from Heaven needs qualifying.

1. Does having your origin in Heaven preclude him from being created?

2. It is clear the Holy Spirit gave Christ the beginning of his life in the womb of Mary, so the question must be asked why give him life and existence in a woman? If he pre-existed? Angels present themselves from Heaven all the time throughout the Word?

3. The only difference between the first and second men is one was created from the earth and the other from Logos & from a woman Galatians 4:4-5


When I read your points I dont see any evidence to support your claims. If all things were created as a result of Christ being the Spiritual Creation then the Word makes sense. It can be said that all things exist because of the work God did in him.


Can you see how Christ is the firstborn of all Creation (Col 1:15)? The physical elements are meaningless without their Spiritual counterparts! What good is God separating light from darkness if you can't see that working in the life of a man such as Christ?


The biggest issue with Colossians 1 is the fact that Christ is head of the body. It's the spiritual body which is the context of Colossians 1 and you cannot have a firstborn from the dead or a firstfruits of them that sleep without a created man - God cannot be the head of man - impossible! God can be the head of Christ but not the head of man - man is a created being from his head to his toes! 1 Corinthians 11:3


F2F

Your first paragraph demonstrates that you are blind.

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.

No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.

Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).

The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).

Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.

GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.

God is everlasting.

Jesus is everlasting.

No one except God is everlasting.

Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so you have no gospel at all.

 

[face2face]

Your first paragraph demonstrates that you are blind.

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

The Jews, like modern-day trinitarians, misunderstood Jesus. He was not claiming to be literally older in years than Abraham. So just to clarify, what you are saying is because Jesus used "I am" you believe this makes Jesus God and on these words hang all the complex formula of the Trinity?

The truth is that Jesus understood the meaning on 1 Timothy 3:16 and how he was always in the Mind of the Father from before the beginning. The name was a prophetic declaration of the divine purpose...not once has a trinitarian ever acknowledged this truth as though it's not even important. It's as though the doctrine of the Trinity removes every single divine principle of God manifestation for fear of what? removing it's lies? It must because in all the time I have written in this forum not once have I seen a Trinitarian speak to the subject of God manifestation or the meaning of God's name and how that name was fulfilled in Christ? Why is that Kermos? Is it because you dont want to given ground?

"the word" logos "made flesh." in John 1:14. As such, Jesus was the expression of the divine character, "full of grace and truth" John 1:14 cmp Exodus 33:19, and became the "firstborn among many brethren". Romans 8:29. Christ was the result of the word made flesh, not the originator of the divine plan. As he himself said, "I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." John 8:42.

I wont go into the translation issues with John 8:58 right now but they certainly exist and the rabbit hole only proves that much has been made of the "I am" which is not as clear as Trinitarians would like.

Something else to consider about whether Jesus was alluding to the divine name in John 8:58. For him to do so would be inconsistent with all he said in chapter 8. In John 8:16, John 8:26,John 8:28,John 8:29,John 8:38,John 8:40,John 8:42,John 8:50,John 8:54,John 8:55 Jesus repeatedly acknowledges the supremacy of the Father over himself and his own dependence upon the Father, and that the Father sent him, and that he does nothing of himself. This is consistent of a Man who understood that his purpose was known by Abraham, prophesied and excepted by the faithful who knew a savoir would come in the line of Abraham and David.

However,

If Jesus was God could he say this:

John 8:28: "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."

If Jesus is "Very God of Very God," and coequal with the Father, then why must Jesus be taught by the Father?
If Jesus is God, then why can he not do nothing on his own authority?

Must God wait on another person before He can do something?

Again, a son who understood 1 Timothy 3:16 would be able to say these things with confidence!

John 8:40: "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God."

If Jesus is "Very God of Very God," then does God hear God, seeing that Jesus said that he was "a MAN...that [has] heard from God"?

John 8:42: "I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me" (John 8:42).

One can't "come from God" and "be sent by God" and at the same time be "Very God."

John 8:54: "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me."

If Jesus is coequal with God, then why is Jesus' honor described by himself as being "nothing," and why is the only honor worthy of mention is the honor that is bestowed by his Father?

These "honors" don't sound very "equal" if "God the Son" is coequal with "God the Father," as the Trinitarian Athanasian Creed claims.

Your doctrine doesn't add up and the twisting of John 8 shows Christ's meaning to his statement "I am" revealed the great Logos of Christ - the spiritual creation in one New Man from which all things eternal for this creation now exist.

F2F

 

[face2face]

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.

Precisely!

If Jesus were God Revelation 1:18 is a mute point. Jesus living forever after he was born, lived and died holds no meaning! It does if he was a man you like and I - doesn't it?

Romans 8:29

 

[BeyondET]

Interesting orgin of the name.

Latin from Greek Iēsous, from Hebrew Yeshūa`, shortened from Yehōshūa` God is help, Joshua.

Certainly good teacher wasn't his name.

 

[Kermos]

Sad to see one that wants to love God is being mislead to not enter Gods kingdom. Jesus said--Hallowed be thy(Father) name=YHWH(Jehovah)--there is no other name that fits in that teaching, yet you refuse to believe Jesus, i am glad my teachers do. Jesus teaches--The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD( John 17:3) But again you refuse to believe Jesus i am glad my teachers do. Fact-Every real follower believes Jesus.

@Keiw and all you JW (Jellyfish Worshippers, it looks magnificent floating through the oceans but it falls apart, decays, rots, and stinks in the bright sunlight on the shore),

You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• You wickedly and publicly point out Jesus to be a liar according to your writings.
• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
• You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an evil source headed for damnation in your current state.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

The Jews, like modern-day trinitarians, misunderstood Jesus. He was not claiming to be literally older in years than Abraham.

F2F

Wow, so according to your heart's treasure, you think Jesus said "Falsely, falsely, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM".

You wickedly adulterate the Word of God in your first paragraph.

Lord Jesus literally proclaims that He is older than Abraham.

In fact, Jesus leaves absolutely no opening for an exception in time prior to Abraham's birth in His words.

YOU CANNOT NAME A POINT IN TIME WHEN JESUS DID NOT EXIST!

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[face2face]

Wow, so according to your heart's treasure, you think Jesus said "Falsely, falsely, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM".

You wickedly adulterate the Word of God in your first paragraph.

Lord Jesus literally proclaims that He is older than Abraham.

The difference is... I understand the intent of his teaching and you clearly don't - you are doing precisely what the pharisees did in misinterpreting his words.

You can't see how Abraham looked forward to Christ's day - through the eye of faith which had nothing to do with Jesus being literally in Heaven with God during Abraham's walk.

Why can't you speak to the context which is 2 verses earlier?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham was overjoyed to see my day, and he saw it and was glad

Give it a go!

How did Abraham have joy to see Christ's day?
When did he see it?
What event in Abraham's life pointed forward to Jesus Christ?

Peace.

 

[Kermos]

The name was a prophetic declaration of the divine purpose...

F2F

In the same post of yours, you wickedly adulterate the Word of God into "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I will be". That's called lying about the Word of God.

Interestingly, you just synchronized your JW version of John 8:58 with your JW version of Exodus 3:14. Look at that @Aunty Jane.

You literay work contorted the Word of God from being about all time prior to Abraham into being about some time in the future.

You preach not the Word of God. You preach the word of face2face.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[face2face]

In the same post of yours, you wickedly adulterate the Word of God into "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I will be". That's called lying about the Word of God.

Interestingly, you just synchronized your JW version of John 8:58 with your JW version of Exodus 3:14. Look at that @Aunty Jane.

You literay work contorted the Word of God from being about all time prior to Abraham into being about some time in the future.

You preach not the Word of God. You preach the word of face2face.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

Kermos, when are you going to acknowledge the context of John 8:56?

It's called faith...have you tried it?



So Abraham literally saw this day and the Master literally was there in Abrahams day. Yeah right...you have thought this through!

 

[Kermos]

As he himself said, "I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." John 8:42.

F2F

Continuing to expose your deceptions of your same post.

Uncreated Jesus says "I proceeded forth and have come from God".

The following Word of God proves that Jesus and the Father are the One True God for Jesus is equal with God.

"The Father and I are One" (John 10:30).

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (John 5:18)

"The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, 'I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?' The Jews answered Him, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.'" (John 10:31-33)

POINT 1:

Lord Jesus says "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me" (John 8:42).

John 8:42 contains NO indication that the Father is not God.

John 8:42 contains NO indication that Jesus is not God.

John 8:42 contains NO indication that Jesus was "made" nor that He was "created" nor that He was "born".

John 8:42 contains indication that the person of Jesus came to Earth from the person of the Father in Heaven.

John 8:42 contains indication that Jesus came from God which is consistent with the fact that Jesus was with God in the beginning (John 1:1).

John 8:42 is absolutely clear that the person of Jesus existed with God then the person of Jesus proceeded to Earth.

Now, a mere 16 verses after John 8:42, Jesus declares Himself to be the everlasting God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

POINT 2: Jesus can address people in His capacity as the Son of Man and/or His capacity as equal with God, truly God

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

The Son of Man says "I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me" (John 8:42).

See, "the Son of Man says".

The equality of Jesus with God remains intact, so Jesus' equality with God means that Jesus is the One True God for it is written "I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5)!!!

POINT 3: John declares that John believes that Jesus "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18)

The fact is that the Apostle John is the person who proclaimed that Jesus made Himself equal with God (John 5:18). John wrote in such a way that John expresses John's belief that Jesus is equal with God (John 5:18).

Not only that, but the religious leaders knew scripture, so based on that they recognized that Jesus declared the Christ's equality with God (John 5:18, John 10:30), yet the religious leaders disbelieved Jesus' words that Jesus is God - JUST LIKE SOME PEOPLE DISBELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD, TODAY.

Truly, such people who claim Jesus is not God are the people following the Jewish religious leaders.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw and all you JW (Jellyfish Worshippers, it looks magnificent floating through the oceans but it falls apart, decays, rots, and stinks in the bright sunlight on the shore),

You have been exposed as a liar about the Word of God such as your wicked claim that Jesus was created. and here are posts exposing your public deception:

• You wickedly and publicly point out Jesus to be a liar according to your writings.
• Since your heart's treasure is that "Plain Theos in the last line at John 1:1gets-a god", then you have two gods (YHWH God + Jesus a god = 2 gods) as shown in post #509 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart rails against the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) being Jesus Christ being YHWH God (Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 45:5). And you repeat your evil proclamation as recorded in post #1247 in this ChristianityBoard thread
• You presented that Jesus is ho Theos in John 1:1 when you failingly asserted that I have two gods with your replacement of "the Word was with God" with "God was with God" as shown in post #1271 in this ChristianityBoard thread because the grammar must remain consistent, so the definite article for God needs to be included with your replacement text since the word "Word" has the definite article, so the accuracte replacement is "the God was with God", and there is ho Theos for the Word, Who is Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14).
• You claim the Wisdom of God was created according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8
  as shown in post #733 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.
• People like you are willingly ignorant of the creation (2 Peter 3:5) as shown in post #1445 in this ChristianityBoard thread, so, in effect, your heart's treasure deliberately deceives.
• YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!
• According to your measure (Matthew 7:2), you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible as shown in post #719 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in fact, The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned in the referenced post.
• You hypocritically accuse others of using Bibles that do not accurately represent God's Holy Name, yet the Watchtower Society's New World Translation mistranslates God's Holy Name as Jehovah again and again and again as shown in post #1657 in this ChristianityBoard thread, and in Truth (John 14:6) God's Holy Name is YHWH, so your bible is corrupt according to your very own measure (Matthew 7:2) (link to post 1686 in this ChristianityBoard thread containing detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name).
• You evilly adulterate the Word of God in your heart to be "I and the Father are exclusively one purpose and nothing else" as shown in post #1723 in this ChristianityBoard thread, yet Lord Jesus truly declared "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) thus Immanuel includes the person of the Father as well as the person of Jesus in being the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).
• You wickedly persist in denying that Jesus will reign forever in the kingdom of God as the angel Gabriel prescribed in Luke 1:33 as shown in post #557 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of a 1,000 year limited reign for Jesus makes God's angel Gabriel out to be a liar since Gabriel declared "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).
• Your heart evilly adds 144,000 into the Book of Ezekiel to unscripturally tie the 144,000 into the Book of Revelation relating the 144,000 to your conjuring up of the Angel Michael being Jesus Christ, yet 144,000 is not mentioned in Ezekiel as shown in post #569 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect, your thoughts of Jesus being one and the same as Michael is your delusion as well as you adding to the Book of Revelation. Truly, Jesus is One with the Father (John 10:30).
• Your heart wickedly adds 1914 AD into "it was granted to take peace from the earth" (Revelation 6:4) as shown in post #427 in this ChristianityBoard thread, in effect your heart changes Revelation 6:4 to read "it was granted in 1914 to take peace from the earth".

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Therefore, you are an evil source headed for damnation in your current state.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

I guess you are so lost in the darkness, i can only but pray that God opens your heart.

 

[Kermos]

and became the "firstborn among many brethren". Romans 8:29. Christ was the result of the word made flesh, not the originator of the divine plan.

F2F

Jesus, truly Man, is the firstborn of the Resurrection (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14), yet Jesus truly Man existed before He was the firstborn of the Resurrection; therefore, none of these verses indicate that Jesus was created.

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then according to the Jesus, truly Man, Jesus does the will of the Father who sent the Son.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), then according to the Jesus, truly God, Jesus exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

People who do not believe that Jesus is God are people who are not blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God, so such people cannot see the Kingdom of God nor even King Jesus (John 3:3-8) for Who He is. You do not believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is "I AM" before Jesus was begotten.

Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).