John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Rich R]

Because you're delusional.

Jesus' Divinity is the foundation of the Bible, and of Christianity. It is made clear countless ways, with as many verses, and probably all of them have been presented to you.

You block them out, and deny their existence, because they are a threat to your agenda.

Truth? You know good and well the Bible teaches Christ is God.

My Bible is consistent in call Jesus the son of God. God is the Father. Jesus is His son. Only the Father is God (1 Cor 8:6). How

Are you from California?

And you've never heard "Do your worst."?

Yes. No.

 

[HIM]

"And" is a conjoining conjunction per the grammatical usage by Peter.

2 Peter 1:1 truthfully exegeted with Greek grammar rules applied maintains consistent Apostolic testimony.

Here is the English-Greek full word-for-word of 2 Peter 1:1:

Simon-Συμεὼν Peter-Πέτρος slave-δοῦλος and-καὶ apostle-ἀπόστολος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ the-Τοῖς precious-ἰσότιμον ours-ἡμῖν obtain-λαχοῦσιν belief-πίστιν in-ἐν righteousness-δικαιοσύνῃ the-τοῦ God-Θεοῦ us-ἡμῶν and-καὶ Savior-Σωτῆρος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ (2 Peter 1:1)

All of these words "God", "Savior", "Jesus", and "Christ" are genitive, singular, and masculine in this passage thus these words after the salutation are to be taken together as a single cohesive unit according to Greek grammar rules, and this unit, Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us, is the object impacting the objects of "faith" (belief) and "righteousness" being applied to the subject of the clause ("To those" is the grammatical subject which is the letter recipients).

The logical "and" in the phrase "the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1) is linguistically, logically, and Spiritually tied to Jesus Christ because the words "faith", singular, as well as the word "righteousness", singular, in the phrase "having obtained a faith equally precious with ours in righteousness of" (2 Peter 1:1); therefore, Peter singularly refers to "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" as One singular.

See that linguistically, "faith" and "righteosness" would need to be plural in order to agree with the subject of "To those", which is plural, in order for "faith" and "righteosness" to be disassociated from Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us which could then lead to legitimate discussion about "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" to be considered linguistacally in this one single passage for disassociation in the evil manner which you think applies.

THE APOSTLE PETER INDISPUTABLY CALLS JESUS "THE GOD OF US" (τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν) WITH "SIMON PETER, A SLAVE AND APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST, TO THOSE HAVING OBTAINED A FAITH EQUALLY PRECIOUS WITH OURS IN RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE GOD OF US AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST" (2 PETER 1:1).

The Greek grammar rules make 2 Peter 1:1 utterly clear in order to avoid confusion, yet you have managed to confuse yourself into constructing an idol that you call Jesus (Isaiah 45:16) which is not the true Jesus (Isaiah 9:6, John 8:58) unto eternal punishment (John 3:36) according to your current state (1 Corinthians 2:14, John 8:24).

No Faith and Righteousness do not need to be plural since there is only one faith and righteousness, God's. Which Jesus had through God and made available to us.

As Jesus said of Himself in John 14, He (God) doeth the work. And Paul confirms in Philippians 2, It is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

So insults are aloud here? Even Michael the Arch Angel when disputing over the body of Moses did not bring a railing accusation. But simply said, I rebuke thee. Why not just address the post and leave your thoughts about me out of it.

 

[GEN2REV]

My Bible is consistent in call Jesus the son of God. God is the Father. Jesus is His son. Only the Father is God (1 Cor 8:6). How

Yes. No.

Salvation is of the LORD, Rich.

Only God can give Eternal Life. ONLY God.

Salvation is of the LORD.
Jonah 2:9

NO ONE else.

 

[Rich R]

Salvation is of the LORD, Rich.

Only God can give Eternal Life. ONLY God.

Salvation is of the LORD.
Jonah 2:9

NO ONE else.

True enough! But how does He give to us? Through His son.

Rom 3:24,

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
​

I've said a few times now that the word "through" indicates agency and that an agent is not the principle who sent him. True or false?

Jesus was sent by God. How does that not show one sending and one sent, i.e., two individuals?

 

[GEN2REV]

True enough! But how does He give to us? Through His son.

Rom 3:24,

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
​

I've said a few times now that the word "through" indicates agency and that an agent is not the principle who sent him. True or false?

Jesus was sent by God. How does that not show one sending and one sent, i.e., two individuals?

I've shown you exactly how, many times.

 

[face2face]

Your chosen verses support my argument.

That God's wisdom is hidden and requires deeper consideration and explaining. That Christ taught in figurative language with hidden meaning so that those diligent enough to find a matter would be blessed with understanding. If that is what you mean then it good to know we agree.
F2F

 

[Kermos]

And God was the Word. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Amen, that he be the firstborn among many brethren. Bringing many sons to glory, sons of God through God and His Spirit through Christ. The Mediator between God and Man. That we be one as they are one that the world might believe.


(John 10:32 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


(John 10:33 [KJV])

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


(John 10:34 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


(John 10:35 [KJV])

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Rom 8:29 [KJV])

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

(Heb 2:10 [KJV])

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

(John 17:21 [KJV])

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

In John 20:28, Thomas declares Jesus is Thomas' Lord and Jesus is Thomas' God maintaining consistent Apostolic testimony.

We must examine John 20:28's Greek to exegete truthfully, with Greek grammar rules applied, in order to solidify the English of that which Thomas proclaimed.

"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'" (John 20:28).

Ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου (John 20:28, Greek).

Answered Thomas and said to-Him the Lord of-me and the God of-me (John 20:28, word-for-word(s) translation of Greek to English).

As is clearly evident Thomas identifies Jesus as the God of Thomas, and notice the definite article ὁ/the preceding Θεός/God of which God is grammatically the direct object with possessive ownership of the indirect object μου/of-me.

By the way, Ὁ/the, Κύριός/Lord, and μου/of-me follow precisely the grammatical structure as ὁ/the, Θεός/God, and μου/of-me; therefore, Thomas acknowledges Jesus is Lord, and Thomas acknowledges Jesus is the God.

The Apostle John specifically identifies the grammatical subject for both direct objects as being the One addressed by Thomas for the sentence "the Lord of me and the God of me" ("my Lord and My God"). Jesus is the grammatical subject of Thomas sentence because Thomas addressed Jesus as indicated by εἶπεν αὐτῷ/said to-Him.

Therefore, "you are my Lord and you are my God" is the equivalent for Thomas' sentence in John 20:28.

In effect, Thomas declares "you are my Lord, and you are my God".

Thomas knew the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3); therefore, Thomas referred to Jesus as YHWH God with "my God" in John 20:28 because Thomas would not violate the commandment.

Thomas has no gods before YHWH God, that is, Jesus is YHWH God according to the words of the Apostle Thomas.

Thomas knew that God is One (Deuteronomy 6:4), and Thomas made it clear that Jesus is the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) in John 20:28.

This means that the Apostle Thomas confesses Jesus, Thomas' God, is everlasting YHWH God!

You impose your unbelieving thoughts upon Thomas with your thoughts to make Jesus into "a god", yet Thomas did not say "a god". Truly, Thomas declares unto Jesus that Jesus is his only One True God, YHWH God!

 

[Kermos]

And God was the Word. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Amen, that he be the firstborn among many brethren. Bringing many sons to glory, sons of God through God and His Spirit through Christ. The Mediator between God and Man. That we be one as they are one that the world might believe.

(John 10:32 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

(John 10:33 [KJV])

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

(John 10:34 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

(John 10:35 [KJV])

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

The figure of speech called an oxymoron respecting "you are gods" (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34) and "many gods" (1 Corinthians 8:5).

Scripturally addressing your unreasonable scope claim that there are many gods with respect to the New Testament.

The Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - Theos, theos [transliteration] - God, Deity, god, deity [English]) can be dependent upon surrounding grammar and context.

The Greek word ἄγγελος (Strong's 32 - aggelos [transliteration] - messenger, angel [English]) is the parlance for angel in the New Testament, and the word θεὸς (God) is never used to refer to an ἄγγελος (angel) in the New Testament.

In the 27 books of the New Testament, the word "god" is used in one of two ways.

The first way is in the good sense which is in reference to YHWH, and I prefer a capital "G" for the good sense, like this, YHWH God.

The second way is in the evil sense which can be in reference to the devil, and I prefer a lower case "g" for the evil sense, like this, the god of this world.

Only two senses for the word "god" exists, and the senses are either good or evil. There is no middle ground.

Of the over 1000 times that the Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - God, god) or it's inflections are used in the New Testament, only the good sense or the evil sense indicated above are represented, as shown in this concordance page blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2316/nasb95/tr/0-1/, and I reviewed all the included verses to make certain - and θεὸς (God) is not used one time to indicate angels.

The good sense for the word θεὸς (God) applies to Jesus; therefore, John declares Jesus is YHWH God in John 1:1 for only God is good (Mark 10:18).
​

Let's look at the definition and etymology of the word "oxymoron".

Oxymoron: noun, A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.

[Greek (attested only in Latin sources) oxumōron, an expression that is witty because paradoxical, from neuter of *oxumōros, pointedly foolish : Greek oxus, sharp, keen; see oxygen + mōros, dull, foolish.]

From the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
​

"You are gods" (John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6) - the unanimous oxymoron found in both the Old Testament and New Testament.

Watchtower Society people and their ilk practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23) throughout their writings, for example, their foolish words along the lines of Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'" in support of their deception about John 10:34 where Jesus refers back to "I said, 'You are gods'" (Psalm 82:6) as recorded in John 10:34.

Now, who is the "I" in "I said" in Psalm 82:6? The "I" is Asaph as identified in Psalm 82:1, so the quote in Psalm 82:6 is not God the Father speaking; therefore, you lie when you write things like Jesus "confessed that his Father called the judges in Israel 'gods'"!

The Jews knew that Jesus proclaimed Himself to be God with "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30, but see John 10 in general), yet the Jews denied rhe Righteousness of Jesus for the Apostle John shows immediately after Jesus' words that "the Jews picked up stones again to stone Him" (John 10:31).

The Jews themselves explained their own actions "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33), so the Jews deny Jesus' Deity, yet Jesus openly proclaims His Deity.

Watchtower Society people are in league with the Jews.

We Christians believe the Apostle John's words. John declares that John believes that Jesus "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The fact is that the Apostle John is the person who proclaimed that Jesus made Himself equal with God (John 5:18). John wrote in such a way that John expresses John's belief that Jesus is equal with God (John 5:18). Equality with God is to be God.

In John 10:34-36, Jesus, who is God (John 1:1-3, John 1:14, John 5:18, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, 2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13), rebukes the Jews.

See that Jesus words of "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said, 'you are gods'? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken, do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" (John 10:34-36) refers back to the psalmist passage rebuking the Jews (Psalm 82:6).

Notice that Jesus' words integrate the greater of Psalm 82 by referencing a small portion because Jesus says "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35); furthermore, a person can use a small portion of scripture to integrate a fuller passage - a technique used by Jesus.

In fact, here is what Asaph said that Asaph said "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High, Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7), so Asaph employed an oxymoron effectively conveying "you are not gods" to the Jews; in other words, both Asaph and Jesus told the people that they are no gods at all, and that the people know not righteousness (Psalm 82:1-8) for God is not like a man that dies (Numbers 23:19), and God knows the way of righteousness (Psalm 1:6).

Like the Jews, you yourself cannot judge what is right (Luke 12:57). The context of the people NOT being "gods" is clear in John 10:34-36 and Psalm 82:6-7.

As is evident in John 10:34-36 based on the above Truth (John 14:6), Lord and God Jesus (John 20:28) was not saying that there are potentially additional gods before the One True God as you preach, but rather Jesus eliminates the potential for the Jews to be gods.

While Jesus told the Jews that they are not gods - not even able to discern the Righteous Branch, Jesus, standing before them, Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God to the Jews with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Furthermore, the Apostle John expressed that Jesus is God (John 1:1). The context for "God" is clear in John 1:1 for there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4-5), and the word "theos" is in the context of the good sense in John 1:1.
​

Paul conveyed that the world's "many gods" are false, but that One God is real.

The Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14) says "I am YHWH, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with the Word of God for Paul wrote "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him" (1 Corinthians 8:4-6).

Paul wrote "there is no such thing as an idol in the world" in verse 4, yet people have idols.

Paul establishes that he is being illustrative with "no such thing as an idol" because people have many false gods and masters (lords) in the world (verse 5).

Paul utilized rhetoric when describing idols, "many gods", and "many lords"; on the other hand, Paul wrote in absolute terms when describing the One True God.

In verse 4 and verse 6, Paul establishes there is One God, so his "as indeed there are many gods and many lords" (verse 5) cannot be his endorsement of the existence of true gods in addition to his declared One God in verse 4 and 6 - after all Paul had just classified the "many gods" as "so-called gods".

Paul encapsulated that the "many gods" are false gods.

Paul used the linguistic oxymoron construction to effectively convey that there are no other gods and there is One YHWH God.

The word of you is "I am Jehovah, and there are others; besides Me there are Gods" (your heart's adulterated version based on your writings).
​

The Apostle John is not going to refer to Jesus as "a god" because such a thing results in two gods. According to your heart's treasure, you claim to have:

Jehovah God + Jesus a god = two gods.

You subtract the fullness of "God" in John 1:1; therefore, you have more than one God because you say that John 1:1 contains "the Word was a god".

Since your heart contends that Jesus is "a god" necessarily before Jehovah God for your salvation, then you have more than one god which places you in violation of "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

THE GREEK WORD THEOS (GOD) EXCLUSIVELY REFERS TO THE ONE TRUE GOD (DEUTERONOMY 6:4) IN THE GOOD SENSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, SO "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" (JOHN 1:1) REFERS TO JESUS AS THE ONE TRUE GOD.

 

[Kermos]

And God was the Word. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Amen, that he be the firstborn among many brethren. Bringing many sons to glory, sons of God through God and His Spirit through Christ. The Mediator between God and Man. That we be one as they are one that the world might believe.


(John 10:32 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


(John 10:33 [KJV])

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


(John 10:34 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


(John 10:35 [KJV])

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Rom 8:29 [KJV])

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

(Heb 2:10 [KJV])

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

(John 17:21 [KJV])

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

"Of the Son He says, 'YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER'" (Hebrews 1:6".

Jesus, truly God, is called God by God.

Jesus, truly Man, died on the cross shedding His precious Blood becoming the first of the Resurrection, just as explained in "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings" (Hebrews 2:10).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Your Romans 8:29 reference is about Jesus, truly Man, so it's covered herein.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[face2face]

"Of the Son He says, 'YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER'" (Hebrews 1:6".

Jesus, truly God, is called God by God

Like the song "your doing the twist" here Kermos. I think you know this verse has translation issues...dont you?

1. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever" (KJV)
2. "God is thy throne for ever and ever" (RSV)

I assume you have taken the 1st as being useful for the trinitarian.

Either way you don't have the complex formula of all three!

Context is key!

How does Hebrews 1:9 go for you? and John 20:17?

You know the Father is the God of Jesus, dont you? clearly Jesus is not himself "Very God"

Also notice how Jesus includes himself with us as having a God (creator)

Enjoy.

 

[Kermos]

And God was the Word. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Amen, that he be the firstborn among many brethren. Bringing many sons to glory, sons of God through God and His Spirit through Christ. The Mediator between God and Man. That we be one as they are one that the world might believe.


(John 10:32 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


(John 10:33 [KJV])

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


(John 10:34 [KJV])

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


(John 10:35 [KJV])

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Rom 8:29 [KJV])

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

(Heb 2:10 [KJV])

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

(John 17:21 [KJV])

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The meaning of "one", actual as well as by an analogy for John 10:30 and John 17:21-22.

The word "one" relates to the level of focus, the layer of abstraction, the focal point.

Your claim must be tested, your claim that society has all agreed that to be "one" with something doesn't mean it actually is that something.

One (1) can be a numerical unit, that is an integer that precedes the number 2.

One (1) can be a whole.

One (1) can be whole made up of pieces.

An example for the test, one full apple pie in a pie tin sliced into 3 equal size pieces remains to be one pie for sale in a baked goods display cabinet.

The three pieces of pie are the one pie.

One piece of the pie is pie.

Language provides flexibility for "one" to convey various meanings dependent upon context, and people understand this fact.

The word "one" means one, yet the degree of the focal point may vary; in other words, the layer of abstraction can change for a given person, place, or thing.

Thus concludes the example of the word "one" that establishes a point of reference for the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:30 and John 17:21-23.

Now presenting another example by expanding the previous example to apply to John 1:1 through the next paragraph's dialog between a mom and her son.

The mommy asked "did you eat pie before dinner?", and Josiah answered "I ate one slice of pie at Levi's house."

Notice, the mommy used the noun "pie" without an article, not a definite article (the) nor an indefinite article (a or an).

The mom refers to the one actual pie including the three individual pieces, and the language frame is similar to John's use of the word "God" in anathrous within John 1:1.

The Apostle John refers to the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) including the person of the Word with his words of "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The second occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:1 is undeniably and truthfully the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Analogies can have a point of failure, but the above firmly proves the point in Truth (John 14:6).

King Jesus says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), so Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God, and this sets the stage for John 10:32-35 that you mentioned.

You also mentioned John 17:21, and when King Jesus says "We are One" (John 17:21) about the Father and Himself then the King of the Kingdom of God declares that the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) exists as the person of the Father (John 17:11, Romans 1:7) as well as the person of Jesus the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58).

 

[Kermos]

Titus and your interpretation was the topic of the post you replied to. Here is the post again. However, in reference to your post. I also notice that you did not bother to address the opening sentence either from the post you responded to. The premise being, Jesus had no power in and of himself.

Read the reply that Lord Jesus had me make to you (the one you just quoted) as it addresses your first sentence.

As a reminder, Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

 

[Kermos]

Titus and your interpretation was the topic of the post you replied to. Here is the post again. However, in reference to your post. I also notice that you did not bother to address the opening sentence either from the post you responded to. The premise being, Jesus had no power in and of himself.

I'd love to talk about Titus.

Titus 2:13 truthfully exegeted with Greek grammar rules applied maintains consistent Apostolic testimony.

Here is the English-Greek full word-for-word of Titus 2:13:

awaiting-προσδεχόμενοι the-τὴν blessed-μακαρίαν hope-ἐλπίδα and-καὶ appearing-ἐπιφάνειαν the-τῆς glory-δόξης the-τοῦ great-μεγάλου God-Θεοῦ and-καὶ Savior-Σωτῆρος us-ἡμῶν Christ-Χριστοῦ Jesus-Ἰησοῦ

All of "God", "Savior", "Christ", and "Jesus" are genitive, singular, and masculine thus they are to be taken together as a single cohesive unit according to Greek grammar rules, and this unit has the genitive singular adjectives "glory" and "great" pointing at this unit for all the genitive singular words are inextricably tied together according to Greek grammar rules.

The logical "and" in the phrase "our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13) is linguistically tied to Jesus Christ because the word "hope", which is singular, as well as the word "glory", which is singular, in the phrase "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of" (Titus 2:13); therefore, Paul singularly refers to "our great God" and "Savior" and "Christ Jesus" as One singular.

See that linguistically, "hope" and "glory" would need to be plural in order for "our great God" and "Savior" and "Christ Jesus" to be disassociated in the evil manner which you think applies.

THE APOSTLE PAUL INDISPUTABLY CALLS JESUS "THE GREAT GOD" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) WITH "LOOKING FOR THE BLESSED HOPE AND THE APPEARING OF THE GLORY OF THE GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR OF US, CHRIST JESUS" (TITUS 2:13).

The Greek grammar rules make it utterly clear in order to avoid confusion.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And God calls Jesus GOD in this verse. (Hebrews 1:8)

Actually this very misinterpreted verse does not say that at all.....context?
The phrasing in Greek cannot easily be translated into English because it can be misleading.
Here is the Greek Interlinear....

“8 πρὸς toward δὲ but τὸν the υἱόν Son Ὁ The θρόνος throne σου of you ὁ the θεὸς God εἰς into τὸν the αἰῶνα age τοῦ of the αἰῶνος, age, καὶ andἡ the ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the εὐθύτητος straightness ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the βασιλείας kingdom αὐτοῦ. of him. 9 ἠγάπησας You loved δικαιοσύνην righteousness καὶ and ἐμίσησας you hated ἀνομίαν· lawlessness; διὰ through τοῦτο this ἔχρισέν anointed σε you ὁ the θεός, God, ὁ the θεός God σου, of you, ἔλαιον oil ἀγαλλιάσεως of exultation παρὰ beside τοὺς the μετόχους partners σου· of you; ”...

To understand what Paul is saying here is to comprehend what that statement would mean to a Jew, who knew God’s word better than most, since he was a former Pharisee.

More correctly translated to agree with the rest of the Bible....it should read...
“But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

What do we see?......reading the following verse there, the one spoken about was “anointed” by his “God”.....can God anoint God? Again that would be ridiculous!

Paul never once said that his Lord Jesus was also his God....that would have been blasphemous and a clear breach of the first Commandment. In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, Paul stated something that the apostles as a collective firmly believed....

“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

For all of the apostles, there was only “one God, the Father” AND “one Lord Jesus Christ”....how could he contradict himself when God’s spirit inspired what he wrote?

You can't cherry pick to make your case either. The Bible must be taken in its entirety.

Jesus IS God. Nope, and yet Jesus is STILL God.

That is a complete contradiction. Jesus can be “theos” in the biblical sense of the word in Greek.....“a god or goddess....a deity or divinity”. He can be “divine” without being “deity”.
There is no sound reason to even believe that Jesus had to be “God” in order to become our redeemer. The scriptures do not support that idea at all....just the opposite in fact.

Jesus is NOT God's god, ... Jesus IS GOD!

Indeed that would be impossible and yet Jesus says very plainly that the Father is his “God” even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12) You have to ignore the direct statements in order to adopt the meaning put into ambiguous verses which skirt around the truth and become mere suggestion. There are NO direct statements in the Bible from God or his Christ declaring clearly and unambiguously that Father and son are one “being”...they are “one” in unity of purpose, but the disciples are also “one” with God and Jesus...

Yahweh is not two or three, but “ONE”.....(Deuteronomy 6:4) It’s not that difficult unless you are so indoctrinated by the “weeds” that you cannot see past what you have chosen to believe.

 

[Aunty Jane]

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Colossians 1:15......Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation”.

Revelation 3:14......Jesus is “the beginning of God’s creation”.


As for Titus 2:13 προσδεχόμενοι awaiting τὴν the μακαρίαν happyἐλπίδα hope καὶ and ἐπιφάνειαν manifestation τῆς of the δόξης glory τοῦ of the μεγάλου great θεοῦ God καὶ and σωτῆρος of Savior ἡμῶν of us Χριστοῦ of Christ Ἰησοῦ, Jesus”.

This can also be read as..
“while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ”....the phrasing in Greek is very different to how we say things in English.....so it’s a matter of interpretation and translation. I know what agrees with the rest of scripture. Jesus has a God even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)
He is an “only begotten son” of his Father, which makes him a unique creation. He was “sent” into the world by the one Jesus said was “the only true God”....(John 17:3)

The trinity is a fabricated lie designed to lead people to break the first Commandment....putting two other “gods” in the Father’s place. (Exodus 20:3) This is how satan works...he deceives and leads people away from God, just as he did with the Jews, who also distorted their own scripture and introduced the “commands of men as doctrines”. (Matthew 15:7-9) Did they believe that their religious leaders were right and Jesus was wrong? Yep! And they lost their place in his kingdom. It will happen again because people want to believe the lies and God will not prevent it. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

We are all being tested......not many will pass. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[Kermos]

No Faith and Righteousness do not need to be plural since there is only one faith and righteousness, God's. Which Jesus had through God and made available to us.


As Jesus said of Himself in John 14, He (God) doeth the work. And Paul confirms in Philippians 2, It is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.


So insults are aloud here? Even Michael the Arch Angel when disputing over the body of Moses did not bring a railing accusation. But simply said, I rebuke thee. Why not just address the post and leave your thoughts about me out of it.

You confuse the Greek inflection grammar with that which the word "faith" represents (see Hebrews 11:1).

We need the verse here for clarity, "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

Grammatically (and hence Spiritually), in 2 Peter 1:1, a plural inflection of the word "faith" would have the word "faith" be grammatically associated with "those", so, as previously stated, the word "faith" would have to be a plural to be associated with the plural "those" in 2 Peter 1:1 (the consequences of which would be unpleasant as shown in the next paragraph').

Now, there is one faith (Ephesians 4:5), and Peter says there is one faith in 2 Peter 1:1.

Since the word "faith" is singular in 2 Peter 1:1, then the singular inflection of the word "faith" results in the word "faith" being associated with singular inflection objects of "Jesus", "Christ", "God", and "Savior". The same grammatical rules apply to "righteousness". The following explanation applies.

2 Peter 1:1 truthfully exegeted with Greek grammar rules applied maintains consistent Apostolic testimony.

Here is the English-Greek full word-for-word of 2 Peter 1:1:

Simon-Συμεὼν Peter-Πέτρος slave-δοῦλος and-καὶ apostle-ἀπόστολος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ the-Τοῖς precious-ἰσότιμον ours-ἡμῖν obtain-λαχοῦσιν belief-πίστιν in-ἐν righteousness-δικαιοσύνῃ the-τοῦ God-Θεοῦ us-ἡμῶν and-καὶ Savior-Σωτῆρος Jesus-Ἰησοῦ Christ-Χριστοῦ (2 Peter 1:1)

All of these words "God", "Savior", "Jesus", and "Christ" are genitive, singular, and masculine in this passage thus these words after the salutation are to be taken together as a single cohesive unit according to Greek grammar rules, and this unit, Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us, is the object impacting the objects of "faith" (belief) and "righteousness" being applied to the subject of the clause ("To those" is the grammatical subject which is the letter recipients).

The logical "and" in the phrase "the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1) is linguistically, logically, and Spiritually tied to Jesus Christ because the words "faith", singular, as well as the word "righteousness", singular, in the phrase "having obtained a faith equally precious with ours in righteousness of" (2 Peter 1:1); therefore, Peter singularly refers to "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" as One singular.

See that linguistically, "faith" and "righteosness" would need to be plural in order to agree with the subject of "To those", which is plural, in order for "faith" and "righteosness" to be disassociated from Jesus Christ the God and Savior of us which could then lead to legitimate discussion about "the God of us" and "Savior" and "Jesus Christ" to be considered linguistacally in this one single passage for disassociation in the evil manner which you think applies.

THE APOSTLE PETER INDISPUTABLY CALLS JESUS "THE GOD OF US" (τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν) WITH "SIMON PETER, A SLAVE AND APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST, TO THOSE HAVING OBTAINED A FAITH EQUALLY PRECIOUS WITH OURS IN RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE GOD OF US AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST" (2 PETER 1:1).

The Greek grammar rules make 2 Peter 1:1 utterly clear in order to avoid confusion, yet you have managed to confuse yourself into constructing an idol that you call Jesus (Isaiah 45:16) which is not the true Jesus (Isaiah 9:6, John 8:58) unto eternal punishment (John 3:36) according to your current state (1 Corinthians 2:14, John 8:24).

 

[Kermos]

Colossians 1:15......Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation”.


Revelation 3:14......Jesus is “the beginning of God’s creation”.



As for Titus 2:13 προσδεχόμενοι awaiting τὴν the μακαρίαν happyἐλπίδα hope καὶ and ἐπιφάνειαν manifestation τῆς of the δόξης glory τοῦ of the μεγάλου great θεοῦ God καὶ and σωτῆρος of Savior ἡμῶν of us Χριστοῦ of Christ Ἰησοῦ, Jesus”.


This can also be read as..

“while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ”....the phrasing in Greek is very different to how we say things in English.....so it’s a matter of interpretation and translation. I know what agrees with the rest of scripture. Jesus has a God even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

He is an “only begotten son” of his Father, which makes him a unique creation. He was “sent” into the world by the one Jesus said was “the only true God”....(John 17:3)


The trinity is a fabricated lie designed to lead people to break the first Commandment....putting two other “gods” in the Father’s place. (Exodus 20:3) This is how satan works...he deceives and leads people away from God, just as he did with the Jews, who also distorted their own scripture and introduced the “commands of men as doctrines”. (Matthew 15:7-9) Did they believe that their religious leaders were right and Jesus was wrong? Yep! And they lost their place in his kingdom. It will happen again because people want to believe the lies and God will not prevent it. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)


We are all being tested......not many will pass. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Your foundation, your shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-23) includes your deception about Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14.

In this post, your spirit of delusion about Colossians 1:15 is exposed.

Jesus is the Firstborn among many brothers (Colossians 1:15 explained)
The phrase "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 refers to all the born by the Spirit of God persons after the crucifixion of Christ, He being the "Firstborn of all creation".

The context is clear as we look at other verses in Colossians 1 - please take note of the word "increasing".

"which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as in you also since the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth" (Colossians 1:6).

"so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Colossians 1:10).

"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:13-14).

See, the context of "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 is the Assembly of God - "He is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15).

In context, the "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to the Firstborn of all the born by the Spirit of God persons.

The context is not the creation around the time of Adam or prior to Adam as verse 15 is approached in Colossians 1.

The context up until verse 15 of Colossians 1 is the creation and increasing of the citizenry of the Kingdom of God, even of the building up of the Kingdom of God.

Now, let's focus a little more on Paul's writing subsequent to Colossians 1:15.

While Paul wrote the phrase "all creation" in the sentence "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians1:15), Paul also wrote the phrase "all things" in the sentences "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16); therefore, Jesus created all things, see the word "all", so Jesus is uncreated. This fits snugly with John 1:3.

See Paul's use of the phrase "all things" in Colossians 1:16 indicate that Jesus is Creator, and it is revealed that God is Creator (see Genesis 1 to Genesis 3).

Now see Paul's use of the phrase "all things have been created through Him and for Him" in Colossians 1:16 indicates that Jesus was not created because of the phrase "all things" forces the fact that Jesus cannot be a part of the "all things" created - He is separate from the "all things" group thus uncreated.

The phrase "all things" in Colossians 1:16 includes all the born by the Spirit of God persons.

See Paul's use of the word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15, and the context already explained.

Now see Paul's use of the word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:18, "And He is the head of the body, the Assembly, who is the beginning, firstborn out from the dead, so that He might be holding preeminence in all things" (Colossians 1:18).

Paul intensifies and emphasizes that Jesus is the firstborn of the Assembly of God - see that "firstborn" occurs TWICE in the passage.

Paul is not talking about the genesis of Jesus, rather Paul is talking about Jesus being the genesis of the Assembly of God. This fits snugly with John 8:58.

Paul clearly proclaims that Jesus creates everything including the Assembly of God, and Paul clearly proclaims that Jesus creates everything which means that Jesus is uncreated. Again, this fits snugly with John 1:3 (and John 1-5).

Lord Jesus, truly Man, is the firstborn among the Assembly of God as evident in Colossians 1:15 which agrees with John 1:3; moreover, Lord Jesus, truly God, is the perpetually existing creator Lord YHWH of absolutely everything as evident in Colossians 1:15 which agrees with John 8:58.

Paul drives the message home that Jesus is the beginning of the Resurrection with "He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18) - see that Paul intensifies the true meaning of Colossians 1:15 by repeating the point in Colossians 1:18 - the point is that King Jesus, the Son of Man, is the Way (John 14:6) into the Resurrection for all the citizens of God's Kingdom. The "all creation" in Colossians 1:15 is specifically all the citizens of God's Kingdom. The "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 specifically refers to the Resurrection, not Jesus being created, but truly Jesus being the Way in the Resurrection!

By the way, in your current state, you fail (see your last sentence).

 

[Kermos]

Colossians 1:15......Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation”.


Revelation 3:14......Jesus is “the beginning of God’s creation”.



As for Titus 2:13 προσδεχόμενοι awaiting τὴν the μακαρίαν happyἐλπίδα hope καὶ and ἐπιφάνειαν manifestation τῆς of the δόξης glory τοῦ of the μεγάλου great θεοῦ God καὶ and σωτῆρος of Savior ἡμῶν of us Χριστοῦ of Christ Ἰησοῦ, Jesus”.


This can also be read as..

“while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ”....the phrasing in Greek is very different to how we say things in English.....so it’s a matter of interpretation and translation. I know what agrees with the rest of scripture. Jesus has a God even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

He is an “only begotten son” of his Father, which makes him a unique creation. He was “sent” into the world by the one Jesus said was “the only true God”....(John 17:3)


The trinity is a fabricated lie designed to lead people to break the first Commandment....putting two other “gods” in the Father’s place. (Exodus 20:3) This is how satan works...he deceives and leads people away from God, just as he did with the Jews, who also distorted their own scripture and introduced the “commands of men as doctrines”. (Matthew 15:7-9) Did they believe that their religious leaders were right and Jesus was wrong? Yep! And they lost their place in his kingdom. It will happen again because people want to believe the lies and God will not prevent it. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)


We are all being tested......not many will pass. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Your foundation, your shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-23) includes your deception about Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14.

In this post, your spirit of delusion about Revelation 3:14 is exposed.

John 8:58 and Revelation 3:14 - Harmony or Discord, but not both.

We need to examine both verses verbatim:

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this (Revelation 3:14).
​

In harmony, Bible verses like these agree, complement, and support one another.

In discord, Bible verses like these disagree, contradict, and conflict one another.

Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID say;

John 8:58

• Jesus emphasizes the Truth (John 14:6) for He says "truly" not just once but twice.
• Into His declaration, Jesus integrates every year, even every moment of time prior to the moment that Abraham came into existence. It is a comprehensive inclusion.
• With the words "I AM", Jesus declares His existence, even His Being, His Presence.
• In sum, Jesus truly proclaims that He exists always without exception prior to Abraham's existence.

Revelation 3:14

• Jesus identifies His audience as the messenger of the assembly in Laodicea.
• Into His salutation, Jesus amplifies He is the Truth (John 14:6) for Amen means Truly, followed with "true" in "the faithful and true Witness".
• With the words "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - Jesus declares His pivotal work of Beginning the creation of the Assembly of God for "all things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).
• Since Jesus can say one thing with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - Jesus declares His crucial work of "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) for "all things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).
• Since Jesus can say one sentence with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly Man - He is the Beginning of the Resurrection among many brothers born of God. Jesus is the leader among the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
• Since Jesus can say one phrase with multiple meanings, then with "the Beginning of the creation of God", we find Christ also referring to Himself in His capacity of truly God - He begins the resurrection of individual citizens of God's Kingdom for He says to the self same assembly in Laodicea that He is the Salvation Grantor causing the beginning of every born of God person's inclusion in the Kingdom of God with "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne" (Revelation 3:21). "Salvation belongs to YHWH" (Psalm 3:8). Jesus is YHWH God of the Assembly of God (God's Ecclesia).
• In sum, Jesus truly proclaims that He is the wonderful Builder that starts (begins) the construction of House of God (we Christians are the House of God).

Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID NOT say:

John 8:58

• Jesus does not say "I was created".
• Jesus does not say "Falsely, falsely, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM".
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I am except when I was not".
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I was not".
• Jesus does not say "Abraham was without beginning", that is, a soul that existed perpetually in time past (truly, Jesus, a Jew, pronounced that Abraham, a human, had a beginning point of being created).
• Jesus does not say "I am he" because that would mix the grammatical first person and third person in the original Greek where there is no third person (truly, "I AM" (ego eimi) is exclusively first person for both words).
• Jesus does not say "before Abraham was, I was just a thought by God before I came into existence" (truly, "AM" (eimi) is a present tense verb that signifies presence and existence particularly when paired with the subject noun of "I" (ego)).

Revelation 3:14

• Jesus does not say "I was created".
• Jesus does not say "the Beginning creature of the creation of God" about Himself (see that the word "creature" does not belong to the original Greek).
• Jesus does not say "the first created being of the creation of God" about Himself.

Man injects discord into the Word of God by trying to stuff words into the mouth of Jesus Christ. For example, the hearts of Unitarian persons and Watchtower Society people adulterate the Word of God to say things listed in the "Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID NOT say" list above; therefore, the recorded scripture is no longer the righteous Word of God, but the man-made sayings are the wicked word of man.

God maintains harmony of the Word of God for there is One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) whose memorial name to all generations is I AM (Exodus 3:14), and, other than YHWH, no other deity exists (Isaiah 45:5). For example, see what the Word of God says in the "Let's look at what Lord Jesus DID say" list above. We Christians hear the Christ, our Leader, and we are enamored by His awesomely profound sayings.

Man's discord predicates "scripture states that Jesus was created".

God's harmony predicates "no scripture states that Jesus was created".

Discord is the spirit of the antichrist (1 John 4:3).

Harmony is the Holy Spirit of the Living God (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The Word of God says Jesus Christ is YHWH God (John 8:58)! Hallelujah! Amen! Amen!

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

By the way, in your current state, you fail (see your last sentence).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[GEN2REV]

Actually this very misinterpreted verse does not say that at all.....context?
The phrasing in Greek cannot easily be translated into English because it can be misleading.
Here is the Greek Interlinear....

“8 πρὸς toward δὲ but τὸν the υἱόν Son Ὁ The θρόνος throne σου of you ὁ the θεὸς God εἰς into τὸν the αἰῶνα age τοῦ of the αἰῶνος, age, καὶ andἡ the ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the εὐθύτητος straightness ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the βασιλείας kingdom αὐτοῦ. of him. 9 ἠγάπησας You loved δικαιοσύνην righteousness καὶ and ἐμίσησας you hated ἀνομίαν· lawlessness; διὰ through τοῦτο this ἔχρισέν anointed σε you ὁ the θεός, God, ὁ the θεός God σου, of you, ἔλαιον oil ἀγαλλιάσεως of exultation παρὰ beside τοὺς the μετόχους partners σου· of you; ”...

To understand what Paul is saying here is to comprehend what that statement would mean to a Jew, who knew God’s word better than most, since he was a former Pharisee.

More correctly translated to agree with the rest of the Bible....it should read...
“But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

What do we see?......reading the following verse there, the one spoken about was “anointed” by his “God”.....can God anoint God? Again that would be ridiculous!

Paul never once said that his Lord Jesus was also his God....that would have been blasphemous and a clear breach of the first Commandment. In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, Paul stated something that the apostles as a collective firmly believed....

“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

For all of the apostles, there was only “one God, the Father” AND “one Lord Jesus Christ”....how could he contradict himself when God’s spirit inspired what he wrote?

You can't cherry pick to make your case either. The Bible must be taken in its entirety.


That is a complete contradiction. Jesus can be “theos” in the biblical sense of the word in Greek.....“a god or goddess....a deity or divinity”. He can be “divine” without being “deity”.
There is no sound reason to even believe that Jesus had to be “God” in order to become our redeemer. The scriptures do not support that idea at all....just the opposite in fact.


Indeed that would be impossible and yet Jesus says very plainly that the Father is his “God” even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12) You have to ignore the direct statements in order to adopt the meaning put into ambiguous verses which skirt around the truth and become mere suggestion. There are NO direct statements in the Bible from God or his Christ declaring clearly and unambiguously that Father and son are one “being”...they are “one” in unity of purpose, but the disciples are also “one” with God and Jesus...

Yahweh is not two or three, but “ONE”.....(Deuteronomy 6:4) It’s not that difficult unless you are so indoctrinated by the “weeds” that you cannot see past what you have chosen to believe.

It's so funny how those who would twist plain Scripture to make it say what they want it to say will take the tiniest possibility of an insinuation in a verse and turn it into a massive doctrine all its own - like the trinity doctrine being such a weighty concept in christendom based on almost zero Scripture whatsoever; or the Pre-Mil doctrine that paints a picture of a fraudulent 1,000 year period of time to come after Jesus' return based on one single solitary chapter in the most symbolic book in the Bible.

Yet, when presented with plain Scripture to support contrary (much more clearly Biblical) concepts, they will completely diminish the Scripture presented in order to claim that it says much less than it actually does, and even claim it's been mistranslated and misinterpreted, and that it doesn't even say at all what it plainly says.

There was a very good reason why Jesus despised the "Lawyers" of the Bible in His day. They, just like those in courtrooms today, would lie and twist and alter existing information to the point that it veritably disappeared from existence and wasn't even allowed to be considered at all.

There is no sound reason to even believe that Jesus had to be “God” in order to become our redeemer. The scriptures do not support that idea at all....just the opposite in fact.

ONLY if you're delusional or brainwashed.

Your mortal Jesus that you worship will take you along with him where he goes in the end. All servants follow their masters to their final destination.

 

[DanielConway]

Kermos, Kermos, Kermos, brother mine three times! Don't waste any more tears or time on RichR, fave2face, Wrangler or Aunty Jane. These buck toothed cabrones have no more capacity left to appreciate (much less participate) in sound discourse than their tired, wrinkled members have any capacity left to ejaculate. Leave them to their sweater girls and their imagination. I hear your number four is on the way! Let's head out to our secret spot for a round or four to celebrate!