JOHN 11:25 THE RESURRECTION

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Doug

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Curious. What would you say the unprofitable and unfruitful servant should do then?
Hello
Keep the commandments, abide in Christ, love one another, sell all they had, confess Jesus, be baptized. This is for the believing remnant of Israel to enter the kingdom and they would be enabled by the Holy Spirit.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Until then, I stand in jeopardy.

1 Corinthians 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.


Giuliano, that is not what I hear in the passage. Went back and really read it last night after your post here. Before I give why I don’t agree with you; we are in jeopardy of losing salvation and stand in jeopardy every hour of losing it...I need to make clear I’m not OSAS but “once born of God always born of God”. In no way saying I’ve obtained what is spoken of here because honestly, I fear losing my life. I’m not sure how to not fear losing it other than more assurance in that which is born of God...not less assurance. Not sure how that assurance can be there to fulfill the Spiritual Law but cannot even maintain complete assurance in 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

That makes no sense ...is assurance in that which is outward or that which is inward? The passage you spoke of is where Paul is speaking to others who are doubting the dead are raised. They are doubting the resurrection of the dead unto Life. They are doubting the quickening of the Spirit. Their faith is crumbling possibly even revealing it was vain faith to begin with...doubting the message that Christ was raised. Paul is admonishing them and goes through telling them the dead are raised of a certainty and points to Christ as the assurance. Saying if He is not raised Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

If that is not assurance...then your faith is in vain and you still remain in your sins. Because if Christ was not raised from the dead then ...Paul goes on to say 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Which (for me)may be a more accurate reading of “standing in Jeopardy every hour” ...literally. Around every corner. “I may die today” and then tomorrow “I may die today.” Then the same again with reassurance He who is faithful that called.

Paul is announcing with great assurance of not living in fear of losing “this life”...that seed that must go into the ground and die or it abides alone. they are afraid but Paul is spurring them on toward “He who loses his life will find Life”. Paul is announcing A great assurance...not the LACK of it...again I guess it is a matter of opinion. Paul said 1 Corinthians 15:30-32 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? [31] I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. [32] If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Is Paul not saying he is in jeopardy everyday...if after the manner of men he fought with beast...what did it gain Paul if Christ was never raised and as a vain man with no assurance, he encountered beast and was in jeopardy. Paul even goes as far as saying...if that is so; there is no resurrection of the dead, no assurance in Christ then why don’t I eat and drink and be merry ...because tomorrow we die. Get all you can today, tomorrow you die. He is saying tomorrow is here and Paul is not afraid to die. It is a stance of assurance. Paul is anchored boldly in Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; [20] Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


This is seen, for me, clearly in Paul showed no where he lacked assurance but risked his life in ‘this life’ always being in jeopardy every hour...only way that could happen to “die daily” without of fear of what could be done of men...was a deep rooted faith of assurance in what remains steadfast and sure within the veil. So no...to me “I stand in Jeopardy every hour” doesn’t mean “in Jeopardy” of being abandoned and forgotten of God but the complete opposite in “I am not afraid to die today and lose all ‘this life’ because I have a greater inheritance and more sure Hope in Christ, who of a certainty He that was dead and is alive and faithful as promised.”

1 Corinthians 15:55
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Literally...Paul lived out dying to this world, daily. Rushing into danger and threats always ...not Fearing death. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ...(Cast out the outer man)because fear(the outerman) hath torment.(always in jeopardy). He that feareth(losing their life)is not made perfect(in finding Life) in love. -that which is born from above and of God...is unshakable and remains and does not move.

Torment would be fearing daily you have no real assurance...God is a fairy tale and we might as well eat and drink...for tomorrow we die and are of the most miserable without any real hope.

Do you think Paul was made perfect in Love? Or did Paul live in “torment” of uncertainty and jeopardy daily that God may abandon what He started?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Hello
Keep the commandments, abide in Christ, love one another, sell all they had, confess Jesus, be baptized. This is for the believing remnant of Israel to enter the kingdom and they would be enabled by the Holy Spirit.

It has to be buried. Only one way to enter...Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Matthew 13:44
[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
 

Waiting on him

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Giuliano, that is not what I hear in the passage. Went back and really read it last night after your post here. Before I give why I don’t agree with you; we are in jeopardy of losing salvation and stand in jeopardy every hour of losing it...I need to make clear I’m not OSAS but “once born of God always born of God”. In no way saying I’ve obtained what is spoken of here because honestly, I fear losing my life. I’m not sure how to not fear losing it other than more assurance in that which is born of God...not less assurance. Not sure how that assurance can be there to fulfill the Spiritual Law but cannot even maintain complete assurance in 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

That makes no sense ...is assurance in that which is outward or that which is inward? The passage you spoke of is where Paul is speaking to others who are doubting the dead are raised. They are doubting the resurrection of the dead unto Life. They are doubting the quickening of the Spirit. Their faith is crumbling possibly even revealing it was vain faith to begin with...doubting the message that Christ was raised. Paul is admonishing them and goes through telling them the dead are raised of a certainty and points to Christ as the assurance. Saying if He is not raised Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

If that is not assurance...then your faith is in vain and you still remain in your sins. Because if Christ was not raised from the dead then ...Paul goes on to say 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Which (for me)may be a more accurate reading of “standing in Jeopardy every hour” ...literally. Around every corner. “I may die today” and then tomorrow “I may die today.” Then the same again with reassurance He who is faithful that called.

Paul is announcing with great assurance of not living in fear of losing “this life”...that seed that must go into the ground and die or it abides alone. they are afraid but Paul is spurring them on toward “He who loses his life will find Life”. Paul is announcing A great assurance...not the LACK of it...again I guess it is a matter of opinion. Paul said 1 Corinthians 15:30-32 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? [31] I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. [32] If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Is Paul not saying he is in jeopardy everyday...if after the manner of men he fought with beast...what did it gain Paul if Christ was never raised and as a vain man with no assurance, he encountered beast and was in jeopardy. Paul even goes as far as saying...if that is so; there is no resurrection of the dead, no assurance in Christ then why don’t I eat and drink and be merry ...because tomorrow we die. Get all you can today, tomorrow you die. He is saying tomorrow is here and Paul is not afraid to die. It is a stance of assurance. Paul is anchored boldly in Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; [20] Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


This is seen, for me, clearly in Paul showed no where he lacked assurance but risked his life in ‘this life’ always being in jeopardy every hour...only way that could happen to “die daily” without of fear of what could be done of men...was a deep rooted faith of assurance in what remains steadfast and sure within the veil. So no...to me “I stand in Jeopardy every hour” doesn’t mean “in Jeopardy” of being abandoned and forgotten of God but the complete opposite in “I am not afraid to die today and lose all ‘this life’ because I have a greater inheritance and more sure Hope in Christ, who of a certainty He that was dead and is alive and faithful as promised.”

1 Corinthians 15:55
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Literally...Paul lived out dying to this world, daily. Rushing into danger and threats always ...not Fearing death. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ...(Cast out the outer man)because fear(the outerman) hath torment.(always in jeopardy). He that feareth(losing their life)is not made perfect(in finding Life) in love. -that which is born from above and of God...is unshakable and remains and does not move.

Torment would be fearing daily you have no real assurance...God is a fairy tale and we might as well eat and drink...for tomorrow we die and are of the most miserable without any real hope.

Do you think Paul was made perfect in Love? Or did Paul live in “torment” of uncertainty and jeopardy daily that God may abandon what He started?
Makes me think of Jesus asleep in the bow of the ship.
 
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Giuliano

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Giuliano, that is not what I hear in the passage. Went back and really read it last night after your post here. Before I give why I don’t agree with you; we are in jeopardy of losing salvation and stand in jeopardy every hour of losing it...I need to make clear I’m not OSAS but “once born of God always born of God”. In no way saying I’ve obtained what is spoken of here because honestly, I fear losing my life. I’m not sure how to not fear losing it other than more assurance in that which is born of God...not less assurance. Not sure how that assurance can be there to fulfill the Spiritual Law but cannot even maintain complete assurance in 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

That makes no sense ...is assurance in that which is outward or that which is inward? The passage you spoke of is where Paul is speaking to others who are doubting the dead are raised. They are doubting the resurrection of the dead unto Life. They are doubting the quickening of the Spirit. Their faith is crumbling possibly even revealing it was vain faith to begin with...doubting the message that Christ was raised. Paul is admonishing them and goes through telling them the dead are raised of a certainty and points to Christ as the assurance. Saying if He is not raised Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

If that is not assurance...then your faith is in vain and you still remain in your sins. Because if Christ was not raised from the dead then ...Paul goes on to say 1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Which (for me)may be a more accurate reading of “standing in Jeopardy every hour” ...literally. Around every corner. “I may die today” and then tomorrow “I may die today.” Then the same again with reassurance He who is faithful that called.

Paul is announcing with great assurance of not living in fear of losing “this life”...that seed that must go into the ground and die or it abides alone. they are afraid but Paul is spurring them on toward “He who loses his life will find Life”. Paul is announcing A great assurance...not the LACK of it...again I guess it is a matter of opinion. Paul said 1 Corinthians 15:30-32 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? [31] I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. [32] If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Is Paul not saying he is in jeopardy everyday...if after the manner of men he fought with beast...what did it gain Paul if Christ was never raised and as a vain man with no assurance, he encountered beast and was in jeopardy. Paul even goes as far as saying...if that is so; there is no resurrection of the dead, no assurance in Christ then why don’t I eat and drink and be merry ...because tomorrow we die. Get all you can today, tomorrow you die. He is saying tomorrow is here and Paul is not afraid to die. It is a stance of assurance. Paul is anchored boldly in Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; [20] Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


This is seen, for me, clearly in Paul showed no where he lacked assurance but risked his life in ‘this life’ always being in jeopardy every hour...only way that could happen to “die daily” without of fear of what could be done of men...was a deep rooted faith of assurance in what remains steadfast and sure within the veil. So no...to me “I stand in Jeopardy every hour” doesn’t mean “in Jeopardy” of being abandoned and forgotten of God but the complete opposite in “I am not afraid to die today and lose all ‘this life’ because I have a greater inheritance and more sure Hope in Christ, who of a certainty He that was dead and is alive and faithful as promised.”

1 Corinthians 15:55
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Literally...Paul lived out dying to this world, daily. Rushing into danger and threats always ...not Fearing death. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ...(Cast out the outer man)because fear(the outerman) hath torment.(always in jeopardy). He that feareth(losing their life)is not made perfect(in finding Life) in love. -that which is born from above and of God...is unshakable and remains and does not move.

Torment would be fearing daily you have no real assurance...God is a fairy tale and we might as well eat and drink...for tomorrow we die and are of the most miserable without any real hope.

Do you think Paul was made perfect in Love? Or did Paul live in “torment” of uncertainty and jeopardy daily that God may abandon what He started?
Some passages come to mind.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

That can be two ways, maybe more. I accept both ways I see as true. It's not over until it's over. Life is precious. Every day we live presents opportunities to improve -- to be like the nervous bride wondering if everything's perfect, wanting to please the bridegroom when he appears.

I do not think Paul was made perfect while living in the natural body. A few, a very few, attain that perfection before the physical body dies; most do not. He had not attained when he wrote this:

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

There is some confusion about the Last Judgment. The soul which achieves perfection is judged then and raised up with its perfection made permanent. Few indeed achieve this in this life; but it is possible:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


The soul dies. It has sinned and come short of the glory of God. That being said, it is still true that it has attained perfection in the here and now. So it dies, atoning for the past and is raised up new with nothing of its past shortcomings to haunt it; and in its new state, such a person cannot si since all the urges to sin have been purged. I know many people say Jesus paid for our sins and we'll never have to answer for them; but how then is it that we will be judged by our works? Jesus carries our burden of sin until we're strong enough to do it ourselves. First Paul talks about bearing each others' burdens. That is the law of Christ found in Galatians 6. Paul then that every man must bear his own burden.

We must be willing to put all that we are into the hands of God and let Him judge us. We deserve death, since the soul that sins must die. There is no guarantee at all. If God doesn't raise us up, that would be fair. If He does, that is His Judgment. We must even conquer the impulse to save our lives. We don't deserve it. To become a Christian solely because we hope to escape the just sentence of death on us doesn't work.

Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

The soul facing this final test does so in the same agony Jesus felt in Gethesmane. It is a grievous mistake to desire it for only God knows if we are ready to pass it. Even Jesus asked to let that cup pass from him. Only God's Will matters at that point. Free will is offered back too., as it must be for the perfected soul no longer needs free will, already having made all the right choices.

I feel inadequate trying to explain what I know of it. The best writing I know of on the topic is by St. John of the Cross, The Dark Night of the Soul. I think he experienced it. I think St. Francis of Assisi did. Some of his words are astonishing.

Here is the assurance. If we persevere and trust God, all will be well. If we worry about salvation, our eyes are wandering off the path on our daily life in the here and now. Worrying about the future diverts attention from how we progress today by dying daily with the hope and assurance that God is both loving and just and will judge us correctly.

At first we are attracted to Jesus by wanting eternal life . . .without deserving it. That changes over time. God can make us worthy of it. And when Jesus does appear the second time, we shall be like him since we can see him as he is. Now it is a struggle to see him as he is.

So it seems to me.
 

Waiting on him

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The tabernacle above is a spiritual womb. It’s the mother of us all

We just need to understand we have no need to go a whoring, we have a new husband.
 

Waiting on him

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Maybe I have a misunderstanding of this maybe it’s spiritual Israel above is his bride, and I’m just a child of promise?
We are called the children of God?
 

Giuliano

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God doesn’t have children out of wedlock.
If he’s entered in,Then the Marriage has already been consummated
Are the two one? Is the Bride without blemish yet? Has the marriage occurred or is it still in the betrothal stage?
 
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Giuliano

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Can any of us make a decision that determines the hour of his coming?
I would say it's up to us partly whether and when we become betrothed, but it's up to him when the wedding is.

There may be a need for us to keep oil for our lamps to greet him when he comes "the second time."
 

VictoryinJesus

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Some passages come to mind.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

That can be two ways, maybe more. I accept both ways I see as true. It's not over until it's over. Life is precious. Every day we live presents opportunities to improve -- to be like the nervous bride wondering if everything's perfect, wanting to please the bridegroom when he appears.

I do not think Paul was made perfect while living in the natural body. A few, a very few, attain that perfection before the physical body dies; most do not. He had not attained when he wrote this:

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

There is some confusion about the Last Judgment. The soul which achieves perfection is judged then and raised up with its perfection made permanent. Few indeed achieve this in this life; but it is possible:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


The soul dies. It has sinned and come short of the glory of God. That being said, it is still true that it has attained perfection in the here and now. So it dies, atoning for the past and is raised up new with nothing of its past shortcomings to haunt it; and in its new state, such a person cannot si since all the urges to sin have been purged. I know many people say Jesus paid for our sins and we'll never have to answer for them; but how then is it that we will be judged by our works? Jesus carries our burden of sin until we're strong enough to do it ourselves. First Paul talks about bearing each others' burdens. That is the law of Christ found in Galatians 6. Paul then that every man must bear his own burden.

We must be willing to put all that we are into the hands of God and let Him judge us. We deserve death, since the soul that sins must die. There is no guarantee at all. If God doesn't raise us up, that would be fair. If He does, that is His Judgment. We must even conquer the impulse to save our lives. We don't deserve it. To become a Christian solely because we hope to escape the just sentence of death on us doesn't work.

Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

The soul facing this final test does so in the same agony Jesus felt in Gethesmane. It is a grievous mistake to desire it for only God knows if we are ready to pass it. Even Jesus asked to let that cup pass from him. Only God's Will matters at that point. Free will is offered back too., as it must be for the perfected soul no longer needs free will, already having made all the right choices.

I feel inadequate trying to explain what I know of it. The best writing I know of on the topic is by St. John of the Cross, The Dark Night of the Soul. I think he experienced it. I think St. Francis of Assisi did. Some of his words are astonishing.

Here is the assurance. If we persevere and trust God, all will be well. If we worry about salvation, our eyes are wandering off the path on our daily life in the here and now. Worrying about the future diverts attention from how we progress today by dying daily with the hope and assurance that God is both loving and just and will judge us correctly.

At first we are attracted to Jesus by wanting eternal life . . .without deserving it. That changes over time. God can make us worthy of it. And when Jesus does appear the second time, we shall be like him since we can see him as he is. Now it is a struggle to see him as he is.

So it seems to me.

So you do not know if you have been born of God but still work it out with fear and trembling? I get it. I doubt myself everyday and examine and question if I know His resurrection power. That aside, take you and I out of the equation. I don’t doubt Him or His Spirit. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

ONLY speaking of the children of God. God knows His children born of His Spirit that overcome the world. Consider: greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.

Would you say it is true:

-Greater is He that is of the Spirit of God ...than he who is of the Spirit of fear and of bondage?
-Greater is Christ ...than the antichrist who is and already in the world?
-Greater is He who is NOT of this world ...than he that is of and in this world?
-Greater is He that is a child of God inwardly ...than he who is outwardly and already perishing and passing away?

... nowhere that I know of does the word tell of: he that is of the spirit of fear and of bondage, overcomes HE that is of the Spirit of God. Nor the spirit of the antichrist, overcomes the Resurrection Spirit of Christ. Nor he who is in and of this world, overcomes he who is not of this world but the world to come. Nor the child of God inwardly, is overcome by that which is outward and waxing old and passing away. Instead the Word says: “little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.“ ...to say we are not so confident we are children of God is one thing...but to say the enemy overcomes what is of God in anyway ...is saying (IMO) He that is in and of the world is greater than that which is inward and born of God. If that is the case...Revelation 13:6-8 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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God doesn’t have children out of wedlock.
If he’s entered in,Then the Marriage has already been consummated

The Spirit of God enters and His seed remains, —as Paul said “till Christ be formed in you”. Don’t know how there is conception and Life formed without a consummation.
 

Giuliano

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So you do not know if you have been born of God but still work it out with fear and trembling? I get it. I doubt myself everyday and examine and question if I know His resurrection power. That aside, take you and I out of the equation. I don’t doubt Him or His Spirit. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

ONLY speaking of the children of God. God knows His children born of His Spirit that overcome the world. Consider: greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.

Would you say it is true:

-Greater is He that is of the Spirit of God ...than he who is of the Spirit of fear and of bondage?
-Greater is Christ ...than the antichrist who is and already in the world?
-Greater is He who is NOT of this world ...than he that is of and in this world?
-Greater is He that is a child of God inwardly ...than he who is outwardly and already perishing and passing away?
Yes, to all four.

Paul is hard to understand. Elsewhere he wrote:

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I seldom base my views on something found in Paul's writings unless I can find it somewhere else. He can write things, assuming his readers know certain things; and if they don't, they can reach wrong conclusions.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul especially can get misinterpreted. His writing style is very hard for me to understand sometimes.

The sound mind part om 2 Timothy is important. Anyone who doesn't love God with all his mind by sorting out bad ideas and good ones, bringing the mind under control, is in danger of falling into converting "good fear" (a temporary situation) into a "spirit of fear" (a lasting situation).

What we think of as negative emotions are actually useful. Anger is a clear signal that we're in a situation where logic and reason aren't working. People who get angry are tempted to use insults and violence; but if someone makes me angry, I figure it's time to stop thinking I can talk to him reasonably. Most of the time the best thing to do is make an exit. "Be angry and sin not."

Fear is also useful since it warns of us of potential threats. If the mind is sound, it will produce a reasonable solution to counter the threat. If them isn't sound, the emotions rise up and take control. Wounded animals are apt to bite you when you want to help. They view everyone as a threat.

Fear is good if it alerts us to a threat and our mind provides a solution for us to act on. If the mind isn't sound, or if we refuse to take the right course, that fear is still there. People can get stuck in emotions. Some people get stuck in anger and go around striking out at almost everyone they meet. Others get stuck in fear and start imagining threats everywhere.

Even pain is good since it tells us to do something if we put our hand on something that could burn it or if a thorn pierces the skin.

Emotions are valuable tools then that tell us how we're relating to things around us. They can become destructive if our minds are whacked out or if we keep making wrong decisions.

Fear goes away if we make right decisions.
... nowhere that I know of does the word tell of: he that is of the spirit of fear and of bondage, overcomes HE that is of the Spirit of God. Nor the spirit of the antichrist, overcomes the Resurrection Spirit of Christ. Nor he who is in and of this world, overcomes he who is not of this world but the world to come. Nor the child of God inwardly, is overcome by that which is outward and waxing old and passing away. Instead the Word says: “little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.“ ...to say we are not so confident we are children of God is one thing...but to say the enemy overcomes what is of God in anyway ...is saying (IMO) He that is in and of the world is greater than that which is inward and born of God. If that is the case...Revelation 13:6-8 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
The "wisdom" of the world is that evil is stronger than good. That's an illusion. If we experience fear in the soul, the mind can still tell us that we can correct the situation so the fear goes away.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

I think Paul could have written a little better when he wrote "fear and trembling." I don't see his every word being dictated by God. For me, there are three kinds of valuable writings: The Law, the Prophets, and the Scriptures. All can be called writings or scriptures -- but not all rise to the level of inspiration of the books of Moses and those in the Prophets. Jews will tell you there are mistakes in some of the books we adopted from them -- and even tell you what they think are mistakes. While they are good and useful books, there is more of the human about them and less inspiration.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Yes, to all four.

Paul is hard to understand. Elsewhere he wrote:

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I seldom base my views on something found in Paul's writings unless I can find it somewhere else. He can write things, assuming his readers know certain things; and if they don't, they can reach wrong conclusions.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul especially can get misinterpreted. His writing style is very hard for me to understand sometimes.

The sound mind part om 2 Timothy is important. Anyone who doesn't love God with all his mind by sorting out bad ideas and good ones, bringing the mind under control, is in danger of falling into converting "good fear" (a temporary situation) into a "spirit of fear" (a lasting situation).

What we think of as negative emotions are actually useful. Anger is a clear signal that we're in a situation where logic and reason aren't working. People who get angry are tempted to use insults and violence; but if someone makes me angry, I figure it's time to stop thinking I can talk to him reasonably. Most of the time the best thing to do is make an exit. "Be angry and sin not."

Fear is also useful since it warns of us of potential threats. If the mind is sound, it will produce a reasonable solution to counter the threat. If them isn't sound, the emotions rise up and take control. Wounded animals are apt to bite you when you want to help. They view everyone as a threat.

Fear is good if it alerts us to a threat and our mind provides a solution for us to act on. If the mind isn't sound, or if we refuse to take the right course, that fear is still there. People can get stuck in emotions. Some people get stuck in anger and go around striking out at almost everyone they meet. Others get stuck in fear and start imagining threats everywhere.

Even pain is good since it tells us to do something if we put our hand on something that could burn it or if a thorn pierces the skin.

Emotions are valuable tools then that tell us how we're relating to things around us. They can become destructive if our minds are whacked out or if we keep making wrong decisions.

Fear goes away if we make right decisions.

The "wisdom" of the world is that evil is stronger than good. That's an illusion. If we experience fear in the soul, the mind can still tell us that we can correct the situation so the fear goes away.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

I think Paul could have written a little better when he wrote "fear and trembling." I don't see his every word being dictated by God. For me, there are three kinds of valuable writings: The Law, the Prophets, and the Scriptures. All can be called writings or scriptures -- but not all rise to the level of inspiration of the books of Moses and those in the Prophets. Jews will tell you there are mistakes in some of the books we adopted from them -- and even tell you what they think are mistakes. While they are good and useful books, there is more of the human about them and less inspiration.

I won’t have time today to fully respond; being pulled in many directions this morning. My husband reads post on the forum and asked me yesterday of this conversation...are you trying to convince them or yourself? Both I think. You don’t know but I lived a life of fear to where I couldn’t even function or fully live. I’ve always said in my own regard...dying has never been the hard part...living for Him seems (for me) like the impossible.

Agree in the illusion that falls.

Would say 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
...pertains to that which is inward. Paul seemed to know “he who is in You is Greater than he that is in the world.” They described Paul as “bodily weak and contemptible in speech” yet Acts 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

It is that which I know or see to be vital: “He that is in you is greater than he that is in the World.” Perfect soundness and “made this man strong” ..without this the illusion falls.

Many ask if there is such a great assurance in God why does the word prompt so often ...to be certain. Because it is serious, yeah. If I go to battle deceived I have “He that is in you is Greater than he that is in the world” and He is not in me...I’m overcome of a certain. No amount of who I once was ...even if she is convinced she is a mighty strong warrior...she can’t take on or overcome what is to be overcome. BUT “HE that is in you is Greater than he that is in the world”...CAN. I don’t want less absolution but more in God can do the impossible. A few verses that follow (IMO) tell why...remember He said(taught) many times on one stronger coming and taking over one weaker....and what a man is overcome by he is brought into bondage or captivity of. Paul Knew ...And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Paul knew “made this man strong” and could fully say He was convinced nothing could separate him from the love of God.

Working it out same as you...blessings.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Revelation 13:7-9 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. [9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
—Jesus told the disciples to not rejoice in the spirit were subject to them but that their names were there. Do we see in them “he that is in you is Greater than he that is in the world”?

Revelation 17:12-14 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. [13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Extremely vital to be certain we don’t hold on to an illusion, yeah?

(Daniel 7:20-28) it is a long passage but the fight is there and God has already told who is Greater.
 
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farouk

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I won’t have time today to fully respond; being pulled in many directions this morning. My husband reads post on the forum and asked me yesterday of this conversation...are you trying to convince them or yourself? Both I think. You don’t know but I lived a life of fear to where I couldn’t even function or fully live. I’ve always said in my own regard...dying has never been the hard part...living for Him seems (for me) like the impossible.
Sometimes this happens; sometimes ppl have a view that they think maybe is Scriptural but this is why discussing it can be valuable; sometimes a view we have neither Scriptural nor unScriptural; which would kind of encourage us to concentrate on the central issues of doctrine and practice. So your husband's statement is interesting...
 
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ScottA

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John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jesus has promised that by believing in him we shall live, never to die. There is no caveat here to the promise of eternal life, to give it, then take it away. There is nothing for us to do to know we have life everlasting but to believe. It is all by Christ Jesus.

Martha believed on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God unto eternal life (John 3:16 John 20:31). Martha confessed that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God according to the requirements of the covenant for blessing (1 Kings 8:35-36 Matthew 10:32 Romans 10:9 1 john 4:15 Revelation 3:5).

There are two resurrections:

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Broadly speaking there is the resurrection of the just and the unjust.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The resurrection of the just is the first resurrection and is in two parts, but everyone in their own order (1 Corinthians 15:23):

The first part of the first resurrection is the resurrection of those in the body of Christ which occurs before the tribulation (Matthew 3:7 1 Thessalonians 1:10). They will be resurrected and be given positions in the heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 2:6).

The dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16) then afterwards those in the body who are alive (1 Thessalonians 4:15).

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The second part of the first resurrection is of the old testament saints, the kingdom saints, and the tribulation saints, and occurs after the tribulation, at the Lord's coming.

Those in Christ are the kingdom saints who believed on Jesus before the dispensation of grace and the body of Christ was revealed to Paul. The kingdom saints will enter into the promised kingdom on earth and reign with Christ.

The old testament saints in Christ are resurrected as well in the second part of the first resurrection and will enter the kingdom. Those that sat on the thrones as mentioned in Revelation 20:4 would include the twelve apostles (Matthew 19:28). It can also be seen that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be raised at this time to enter the kingdom (Matthew 8:11).

The saints who die in the tribulation are likewise included in the second part of the first resurrection. They will be raised at the coming of the Lord Jesus and as stated in Revelation 20:4, will enter the Davidic kingdom on earth and reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The rest of the dead are all the unbelievers from Adam onward.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The believing remnant of Israel, Jew and Gentile, consisting of the old testament saints, the kingdom saints, and the tribulation saints will enter the kingdom. The Israel of God will be priests unto God and shall reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The unbelievers are the rest of the dead and are risen last after the thousand year reign of Christ to stand before the great white throne according to Revelation 20:5 ; this is the second resurrection. The second death is being thrown into the lake of fire.

John 7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

The resurrection is referred to as being at "the last day" in John 11:24 and it is not clear what is meant, but the last day seems to find correlation with the feast of tabernacles in John 7:37.

Zechariah 14:16 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah is speaking of the feast of tabernacles during the millennial reign of Christ; the resurrections of the just will occur at the coming of Christ to establish his heavenly and earthly kingdoms.
If "it is not clear" to you, why do you speculate?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Sometimes this happens; sometimes ppl have a view that they think maybe is Scriptural but this is why discussing it can be valuable; sometimes a view we have neither Scriptural nor unScriptural; which would kind of encourage us to concentrate on the central issues of doctrine and practice. So your husband's statement is interesting...

Thank you! Maybe instead of answering so quickly ...I should ask him why he asked the question to begin with??