John 3:5... YES! ANOTHER BAPTISM THREAD!

[Grailhunter]

No.

Are you forgetting that I know you.....you ask these Hypothetical questions with a grin your face.
As it is I am the only one that I know that has a Baptismal Certificate with Christ's signature as the officiating baptizer.
Flew in first class on a Boeing 737...Lord know he was holding it up, because they cannot fly on their own.

 

[Philip James]

Can anyone on this thread say that the man who water baptized them was crucified for them?

Well of course. It's Jesus that baptizes, that HE uses a man to pour the water doesn't mean HE didn't do it.

This goes for all the sacraments. Its Jesus who presides...

Peace!

 

[FHII]

Why did Paul say I came not to baptize.
You would have to ask him that. I seem to recall him saying that He was glad that he did not baptize a group of people.
There was a concern in the biblical era and beyond who was baptizing.

I don't think it is that hard a question to answer.

1 Corinthians 1:11-12 KJV
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

The Corinthians were decided. They were bickering by saying, "well , I follow Paul and what he says!". Another would say,"I follow Apollo's!". Others would say, " Bah! I follow no man: I follow Christ!". Same with Peter...

Paul was disgusted with this attitude. He said in Chapter 3:6 that he planted, Apollo's watered but God gave increase. He also said that Apollo's and he were on the same page.

1 Corinthians 1:13-17 KJV
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

He is upset at the division as both he and Apollo's are on the same page ("are one" as he put it in ch 3) and they are both preaching Christ. So there shouldn't be any divisions.


[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Let us realize that he did actually baptize (and the context is in water)! He gave two names and the name of a household. So while he did do it, God didn't send him for that purpose.

So why was he glad that he didn't baptize any of them? Because they were being foolish with their divisions. The was Team Paul, Team Apollo's, Team Peter and Team Jesus and apparently they took it seriously. Paul didn't like that there was a "Team Paul" either. He's happy he didn't baptize because they would've used the "baptism by Paul" as some sort of authentication against other Christian's.

In short, he was dealing with very immature Christian's and he didn't want them thinking he was the object of worship (more or less being the point).

Now, a few other things about this:

1. That doesn't mean they weren't baptized in water at all. Paul (like Jesus) may have had others do it.
2. Though that MAY be the case, it is reasonable to point out that he didn't seem to have strong feelings for it. He did it a few times, but he doesn't come across that it is that vital.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't think it is that hard a question to answer.

1 Corinthians 1:11-12 KJV
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

The Corinthians were decided. They were bickering by saying, "well , I follow Paul and what he says!". Another would say,"I follow Apollo's!". Others would say, " Bah! I follow no man: I follow Christ!". Same with Peter...

Paul was disgusted with this attitude. He said in Chapter 3:6 that he planted, Apollo's watered but God gave increase. He also said that Apollo's and he were on the same page.

1 Corinthians 1:13-17 KJV
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

He is upset at the division as both he and Apollo's are on the same page ("are one" as he put it in ch 3) and they are both preaching Christ. So there shouldn't be any divisions.


[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Let us realize that he did actually baptize (and the context is in water)! He gave two names and the name of a household. So while he did do it, God didn't send him for that purpose.

So why was he glad that he didn't baptize any of them? Because they were being foolish with their divisions. The was Team Paul, Team Apollo's, Team Peter and Team Jesus and apparently they took it seriously. Paul didn't like that there was a "Team Paul" either. He's happy he didn't baptize because they would've used the "baptism by Paul" as some sort of authentication against other Christian's.

In short, he was dealing with very immature Christian's and he didn't want them thinking he was the object of worship (more or less being the point).

Now, a few other things about this:

1. That doesn't mean they weren't baptized in water at all. Paul (like Jesus) may have had others do it.
2. Though that MAY be the case, it is reasonable to point out that he didn't seem to have strong feelings for it. He did it a few times, but he doesn't come across that it is that vital.

Did not say it was a hard question.

 

[Waiting on him]

Are you forgetting that I know you.....you ask these Hypothetical questions with a grin your face.
As it is I am the only one that I know that has a Baptismal Certificate with Christ's signature as the officiating baptizer.
Flew in first class on a Boeing 737...Lord know he was holding it up, because they cannot fly on their own.

No hypothesis, just trying to get to the bottom, without just accepting everything I’m told of men. Now, the disciples baptized many, themselves even baptized. Why no salvation prior to Pentecost?

 

[Grailhunter]

No hypothesis, just trying to get to the bottom, without just accepting everything I’m told of men. Now, the disciples baptized many, themselves even baptized. Why no salvation prior to Pentecost?

First off I would not agree with that.

 

[Waiting on him]

I don't think it is that hard a question to answer.

1 Corinthians 1:11-12 KJV
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

The Corinthians were decided. They were bickering by saying, "well , I follow Paul and what he says!". Another would say,"I follow Apollo's!". Others would say, " Bah! I follow no man: I follow Christ!". Same with Peter...

Paul was disgusted with this attitude. He said in Chapter 3:6 that he planted, Apollo's watered but God gave increase. He also said that Apollo's and he were on the same page.

1 Corinthians 1:13-17 KJV
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

He is upset at the division as both he and Apollo's are on the same page ("are one" as he put it in ch 3) and they are both preaching Christ. So there shouldn't be any divisions.


[14] I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
[15] Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
[16] And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Let us realize that he did actually baptize (and the context is in water)! He gave two names and the name of a household. So while he did do it, God didn't send him for that purpose.

So why was he glad that he didn't baptize any of them? Because they were being foolish with their divisions. The was Team Paul, Team Apollo's, Team Peter and Team Jesus and apparently they took it seriously. Paul didn't like that there was a "Team Paul" either. He's happy he didn't baptize because they would've used the "baptism by Paul" as some sort of authentication against other Christian's.

In short, he was dealing with very immature Christian's and he didn't want them thinking he was the object of worship (more or less being the point).

Now, a few other things about this:

1. That doesn't mean they weren't baptized in water at all. Paul (like Jesus) may have had others do it.
2. Though that MAY be the case, it is reasonable to point out that he didn't seem to have strong feelings for it. He did it a few times, but he doesn't come across that it is that vital.

I also get the same impression.

 

[Philip James]

Why no salvation prior to Pentecost?

Well I dont know what you mean here.

Our salvation is the cross, and that happened a bit before pentecost,

One might say before the world was formed maybe too...

Peace!

 

[Waiting on him]

Well I dont know what you mean here.

Our salvation is the cross, and that happened a bit before pentecost,

One might say before the world was formed maybe too...

Peace!

I guess we have differing perspectives

 

[amadeus]

Who’s qualified to water baptize?

Who is qualified to minister to anyone with what the gifts of God? Has God given us any ministers to baptize?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

So then the question we might ask here, is whether or not water baptism helps to perfect the saints or edify the body of Christ? If the answer is yes, then those given to us by God when working correctly in their calling would be qualified to baptize in water. If the answer is no, then...?

 

[bbyrd009]

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” mg

 

[Waiting on him]

Who is qualified to minister to anyone with what the gifts of God? Has God given us any ministers to baptize?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

So then the question we might ask here, is whether or not water baptism helps to perfect the saints or edify the body of Christ? If the answer is yes, then those given to us by God when working correctly in their calling would be qualified to baptize in water. If the answer is no, then...?

I agree John,
I’ve noticed a lot of water baptism scripture in the Gospels, but not so much in the epistles.

 

[Grailhunter]

I agree John,
I’ve noticed a lot of water baptism scripture in the Gospels, but not so much in the epistles.

The epistles and letters address many things but Acts are those things in motion.
Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41
So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Acts 8:13
Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.

Acts 8:16
For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 8:36
As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

Acts 8:38
And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

Acts 9:18
And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

Acts 10:47
you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.

Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Acts 16:15
And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.

Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized [a]in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

 

[Waiting on him]

The epistles and letters address many things but Acts are those things in motion.

Yes, the Acts precede.

 

[FHII]

Did not say it was a hard question.

Yea, sorry. I didn't mean to imply you did. There were 3 or 4 posts about Paul's not baptizing others and I chose yours to post a response. Wrong thing to do, but I was intending to respond to a few number of posts...

While I have your ear, I understand your passion for this practice. Please note that I am not against it, and in fact believe it should be done if one is compelled to do so. My points are that it is not necessary for salvation, it shouldn't be forced on people (as it was to one member on this board in another thread), and that the thing it symbolizes is more important than the ritual.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yea, sorry. I didn't mean to imply you did. There were 3 or 4 posts about Paul's not baptizing others and I chose yours to post a response. Wrong thing to do, but I was intending to respond to a few number of posts...

While I have your ear, I understand your passion for this practice. Please note that I am not against it, and in fact believe it should be done if one is compelled to do so. My points are that it is not necessary for salvation, it shouldn't be forced on people (as it was to one member on this board in another thread), and that the thing it symbolizes is more important than the ritual.

I don’t forbid either.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yea, sorry. I didn't mean to imply you did. There were 3 or 4 posts about Paul's not baptizing others and I chose yours to post a response. Wrong thing to do, but I was intending to respond to a few number of posts...

While I have your ear, I understand your passion for this practice. Please note that I am not against it, and in fact believe it should be done if one is compelled to do so. My points are that it is not necessary for salvation, it shouldn't be forced on people (as it was to one member on this board in another thread), and that the thing it symbolizes is more important than the ritual.

My points are that it is not necessary for salvation,
My point is that your point is not biblical and unheard of until someone, around 1500 or 1600 years after Christ decided go against the scriptures.

it shouldn't be forced on people (as it was to one member on this board in another thread),
No force...freedom of religion....don't do baptism or communion....or if you do, declare to God that you believe that neither one of them have any spiritual significance and you are only doing them for symbolic reasons. Let us know how it turns out for ya.

and that the thing it symbolizes is more important than the ritual.
There is nothing in the Bible that refers to Baptism or communion as merely symbolic. I have provided a whole list of scriptures concerning Baptism....do you think you can find the word symbolic in that list.

What people believe is fine....not my soul.

 

[Waiting on him]

What people believe is fine....not my soul.

 

[FHII]

My point is that your point is not biblical and unheard of until someone, around 1500 or 1600 years after Christ decided go against the scriptures.

I am not going by something written or said by someone 1500 years after Christ, I am going by what the Bible says.

No force...freedom of religion....don't do baptism or communion....or if you do, declare to God that you believe that neither one of them have any spiritual significance and you are only doing them for symbolic reasons. Let us know how it turns out for ya.

Likewise, you do those rituals and not do that which they symbolize and declare to God you are clean. You are baptized in literal water, but not in Christ. You eat bread and drink wine, but don't have communion with Christ.

I am not directly saying you are guilty; I am making a point. But you are looking at the ritual and not what it represents. That I do charge to you! If you believed otherwise you would agree that we must be immersed in Christ and we must have communion with Christ...

So you've had your bath, and eat your bread and drink your wine... I will do what they represent.

Let me know how that works for you.

There is nothing in the Bible that refers to Baptism or communion as merely symbolic. I have provided a whole list of scriptures concerning Baptism....do you think you can find the word symbolic in that list.

Oh, really?

Romans 6:2-3 KJV
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

We have water baptism and being baptized into Christ. Which is the symbol and which is the real deal?

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 6:2-3 KJV
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

That’s bizarre, my wife and I were just talking about that very verse.