John 3:5... YES! ANOTHER BAPTISM THREAD!

[Mungo]

LoL! That sounds like a lot of work!

I tell you what, Phillip seems to be cutting more to the chase in a hurry, so let me have this conversation with him to start. Let me know if you disagree with what he is saying. If so, maybe we can pick it up from where you disagree.

Blessings in Christ, Mungo.

OK,
Though I think I'm done with this thread.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, exactly!

there is only one problem with this (imo). Jerusalem below and Jerusalem above. You can’t go outside and look up in the sky and set your eyes on Jerusalem above. It is positional and in the Heart. Meaning (again just an opinion) it is “above” and over all things in the glory and power of God lifting Her up of Himself and setting her not beneath men but above all. The firmament and all of the creation in Genesis being either the physical creation or the Spiritual. For example the raging waters beneath and the still water above ...as Christ called to Peter to step out above the waters...those waters speaking of overcoming as the word says many times: walking above what men(raging and foaming and roaring) can do to the body. Above or beneath. “Living waters” of the River of Life which Christ said to come to drink and be satisfied: no more raging or roaring to kill, steal, war and destroy...but peace “be still”. Don’t think I’ve found this after the past couple days as I’ve struggled. Point is...don’t think you can say the firmaments in Genesis are showing waters above as heavenly and that below as earthly. But instead that which is below is lifted up and set over in the second account of creation where God removes kings and sets new ones above and His rule(Christ) is established over what was Adams. Same in the heart of men ...a new rule is established and what was below is set over and above.

Question is: Has Jerusalem been baptized with the Living water of Christ? Do we not see Her lifted up ...New in Him and set above all things: “Free”. A promise ...Look up redemption draws near?Isaiah 66:13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

With all due respect...if you use the first account of creation to prove the waters of the firmament then with eyes...go find New Jerusalem above that which is beneath. And waters which roar and foam out their shame are not physical and Living water is not physical but Spiritual.

 

[farouk]

there is only one problem with this (imo). Jerusalem below and Jerusalem above. You can’t go outside and look up in the sky and set your eyes on Jerusalem above. It is positional and in the Heart. Meaning (again just an opinion) it is “above” and over all things in the glory and power of God lifting Her up of Himself and setting her not beneath men but above all. The firmament and all of the creation in Genesis being either the physical creation or the Spiritual. For example the raging waters beneath and the still water above ...as Christ called to Peter to step out above the waters...those waters speaking of overcoming as the word says many times: walking above what men(raging and foaming and roaring) can do to the body. Above or beneath. “Living waters” of the River of Life which Christ said to come to drink and be satisfied: no more raging or roaring to kill, steal, war and destroy...but peace “be still”. Don’t think I’ve found this after the past couple days as I’ve struggled. Point is...don’t think you can say the firmaments in Genesis are showing waters above as heavenly and that below as earthly. But instead that which is below is lifted up and set over in the second account of creation where God removes kings and sets new ones above and His rule(Christ) is established over what was Adams. Same in the heart of men ...a new rule is established and what was below is set over and above.

Question is: Has Jerusalem been baptized with the Living water of Christ? Do we not see Her lifted up ...New in Him and set above all things: “Free”. A promise ...Look up redemption draws near?Isaiah 66:13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

With all due respect...if you use the first account of creation to prove the waters of the firmament then with eyes...go find New Jerusalem above that which is beneath. And waters which roar and foam out their shame are not physical and Living water is not physical but Spiritual.

@VictoryinJesus I do love the Jerusalem above passage in Revelation 21; the Lamb is the light thereof...

 

[Philip James]

This is the standard Catholic response to Bible truth: "I don't care what the Bible says since 2000 years of error make it somehow right." This is because so-called *Tradition* trumps the Bible every time, no matter how false.

Dear Enoch,
The Truth does not change. That which was True for our brothers and sisters in 100 AD, 200, 500, 1000... Must still be True today.

If we are unwilling to humble ourselves and submit to the correction of our fathers and mothers and brothers and sisters of the last 2000 years, we will stumble into all kinds of pits of our own making...

You are incorrect that Tradition 'trumps' the Bible. Rather Tradition provides the proper context in which to read the scriptures...

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

ha that is why i love Catholics so much; they can be so forgiving.
i was just being evil i guess, my sig is not important prolly. to you anyway
1 Corinthians 15:24

but you might understand how inviting Christians to the "wedding feast" sounds coming from you bro
this is not Christianity bro, and it is never going to be, ok? You too are invited to become a Christian, or bam go back behind your boundary stone and be the best Catholic you know how to be, i would never condemn you for that ok. Not saying Prots dont have their own probs, dont recog 1Cor15:24 either, but usurping Christ is not one of them. Be a christ yourself imo, sure; or keep your human, fallible king and understand the consequences

Beloved,
You can try and erect a 'boundry stone' all you like, but there is no barrier, no wall, no fortress than can hold back the love of God.
Even now HE calls you to the feast. If Rome is your stumbling block, then come with Alexandria, come with Constantinopal , but come!
As for what Christianity is and has been. Those 3 (Rome, Alexandria, Constantinople) are living witnesses to the Truth that was handed to us through the apostles.
You would do well to humble yourself and listen to them....

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

yes scripture that says your exact words

You need some more? Well seeing as the thread is about baptism lets start with the Baptist:

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom; the best man, 14 who stands and listens for him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made complete.

It is John the baptist who as the 'best man' has introduced the groom to his bride... The wedding has begun...

Peace!

 

[bbyrd009]

You can try and erect a 'boundry stone' all you like

iow you dont understand the Scriptural principle of "moving a boundary stone," ok bro

Even now HE calls you to the feast. If Rome is your stumbling block, then come with Alexandria, come with Constantinopal , but come!
As for what Christianity is and has been. Those 3 (Rome, Alexandria, Constantinople) are living witnesses to the Truth that was handed to us through the apostles.
You would do well to humble yourself and listen to them....

Peace be with you!

nice, imo. I also believe those are the unholy trinity, but wth
beliefs are pretty transient anyway i guess

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK,
Though I think I'm done with this thread.

I am too, LoL.
Have a great evening!

 

[Ezra]

You need some more? Well seeing as the thread is about baptism lets start with the Baptist:

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom; the best man, 14 who stands and listens for him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made complete.

{It is John the baptist who as the 'best man' has introduced the groom to his bride... The wedding has begun...} this has nothing to do with your post

Peace!

my last time i asked for scripture that backs up your theory with words.. once again you post some rambling post that makes no sense nor does it back you up . if you cant post scripture that backs your post up DON'T BOTHER ..

 

[Ezra]

You would do well to humble yourself and listen to them....

you would do well to red your Bible instead of following man

 

[Ezra]

You need some more? Well seeing as the thread is about baptism lets start with the Baptist:

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom; the best man, 14 who stands and listens for him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made complete.

It is John the baptist who as the 'best man' has introduced the groom to his bride... The wedding has begun...

Peace!

i figured it out your using catholic theology instead of Bible The Holy See notice the vatican

Apostolic Letters | Francis

 

[ScottA]

there is only one problem with this (imo). Jerusalem below and Jerusalem above. You can’t go outside and look up in the sky and set your eyes on Jerusalem above. It is positional and in the Heart. Meaning (again just an opinion) it is “above” and over all things in the glory and power of God lifting Her up of Himself and setting her not beneath men but above all. The firmament and all of the creation in Genesis being either the physical creation or the Spiritual. For example the raging waters beneath and the still water above ...as Christ called to Peter to step out above the waters...those waters speaking of overcoming as the word says many times: walking above what men(raging and foaming and roaring) can do to the body. Above or beneath. “Living waters” of the River of Life which Christ said to come to drink and be satisfied: no more raging or roaring to kill, steal, war and destroy...but peace “be still”. Don’t think I’ve found this after the past couple days as I’ve struggled. Point is...don’t think you can say the firmaments in Genesis are showing waters above as heavenly and that below as earthly. But instead that which is below is lifted up and set over in the second account of creation where God removes kings and sets new ones above and His rule(Christ) is established over what was Adams. Same in the heart of men ...a new rule is established and what was below is set over and above.

Question is: Has Jerusalem been baptized with the Living water of Christ? Do we not see Her lifted up ...New in Him and set above all things: “Free”. A promise ...Look up redemption draws near?Isaiah 66:13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

With all due respect...if you use the first account of creation to prove the waters of the firmament then with eyes...go find New Jerusalem above that which is beneath. And waters which roar and foam out their shame are not physical and Living water is not physical but Spiritual.

All of that is true, but must be "rightly divided" as to what is manifest by God in the world, and what those thing in the world actually represent, but are not in the world, and only in the spiritual realm and kingdom of God. Thus, when the scriptures say "the waters below and the waters above", it does not mean the liquid waters of the earth (below), and the sky and space above as the waters above. But rather, it is only manifest in the world in that way for revelation from God about what is otherwise unseen of the [spiritual] waters above. The point is...His kingdom is not of this world, and nothing revealed here in the physical, is real in the heavenly spiritual kingdom of God.

But, if we are "alive and remain" in the world, it is as you say, for His service. For which the spiritual kingdom remains unseen, even though we who are alive and remain in the world have received it and entered into it. This was the same type of blindness placed upon Israel until the times of the gentiles is fulfilled.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am too, LoL.
Have a great evening!

What....you think I was to hard on you?
I expect a lot from you.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What....you think I was to hard on you?
I expect a lot from you.

Ah, not a big deal, Grailhunter. You just seemed like you were getting a little upset during the conversation, so I thought I'd let it go. I'm only here to minister in the Spirit, not fight with people. I tend to drop conversations if I think they are getting too heated, because to continue on in strife is not what the scriptures teach believers should do.

That, and Philip didn't really have an answer for me - something about not being qualified to answer the line of questioning I brought up - so the bottom sort of fell out for me.

I'd be glad to answer the things you were mentioning, but only if it's in a Spirit of peace. If not, there's no benefit in continuing.

Blessings in Christ, hope you're having a good day.
Hidden

 

[Waiting on him]

Ah, not a big deal, Grailhunter. You just seemed like you were getting a little upset during the conversation, so I thought I'd let it go. I'm only here to minister in the Spirit, not fight with people. I tend to drop conversations if I think they are getting too heated, because to continue on in strife is not what the scriptures teach believers should do.

That, and Philip didn't really have an answer for me - something about not being qualified to answer the line of questioning I brought up - so the bottom sort of fell out for me.

I'd be glad to answer the things you were mentioning, but only if it's in a Spirit of peace. If not, there's no benefit in continuing.

Blessings in Christ, hope you're having a good day.
Hidden

Who’s qualified to water baptize?

 

[Waiting on him]

The question in post 155 is open too any whom can answer.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ah, not a big deal, Grailhunter. You just seemed like you were getting a little upset during the conversation, so I thought I'd let it go. I'm only here to minister in the Spirit, not fight with people. I tend to drop conversations if I think they are getting too heated, because to continue on in strife is not what the scriptures teach believers should do.

That, and Philip didn't really have an answer for me - something about not being qualified to answer the line of questioning I brought up - so the bottom sort of fell out for me.

I'd be glad to answer the things you were mentioning, but only if it's in a Spirit of peace. If not, there's no benefit in continuing.

Blessings in Christ, hope you're having a good day.
Hidden

Well you shocked me. As smart as you are, I would never consider you would come up with such a thing.
This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Besides it being biblical and an age old foundational belief it is one of the topics that has fractured Christ's church....Which I consider a crime against Christ.
Some people have a hard time with spiritual things...spiritual powers and events.
Sometimes I wonder which ones they are going to pick next to deny?
For some it hard to believe in the spiritual...How can water wash away sins?
How can eating and drinking bread and wine have a religious and divine effect?
How many women that have got knocked up would like to say it was God that did it?
Talk about spiritual, and unbelievable, why not deny the divine birth of Christ?
A God walking among us...oh come on that is way too spiritual.
Just a few years before Christ, thousands of Jews were crucified. How could Christ's crucifixion be something special?
And the blood! Isn't that grose! How could blood do anything? Talk about spiritual, that could never be?
Maybe the Apostles were right....maybe He was just a ghost?
The question is, how do people choose which parts of Christianity that they want to gut? The denial of the spiritual effects of Baptism and communion not only diminishes Christianity, it has fractured the faith....there are denominations that consider baptism to be merely a public display, not anything of spiritual significance. Could Satan do a better Job? Whole denominations that put people under the water and it means nothing. We pretend to baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit! Hold the laughter until later, we know it doesn't mean anything!
How did you chose these fundamental beliefs to remove from your beliefs? And then, what is next? Christ becomes like Santa Claus....a fantasy?
Really! What is next!

 

[Waiting on him]

Well you shocked me. As smart as you are, I would never consider you would come up with such a thing.
This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Besides it being biblical and an age old foundational belief it is one of the topics that has fractured Christ's church....Which I consider a crime against Christ.
Some people have a hard time with spiritual things...spiritual powers and events.
Sometimes I wonder which ones they are going to pick next to deny?
For some it hard to believe in the spiritual...How can water wash away sins?
How can eating and drinking bread and wine have a religious and divine effect?
How many women that have got knocked up would like to say it was God that did it?
Talk about spiritual, and unbelievable, why not deny the divine birth of Christ?
A God walking among us...oh come on that is way too spiritual.
Just a few years before Christ, thousands of Jews were crucified. How could Christ's crucifixion be something special?
And the blood! Isn't that grose! How could blood do anything? Talk about spiritual, that could never be?
Maybe the Apostles were right....maybe He was just a ghost?
The question is, how do people choose which parts of Christianity that they want to gut? The denial of the spiritual effects of Baptism and communion not only diminishes Christianity, it has fractured the faith....there are denominations that consider baptism to be merely a public display, not anything of spiritual significance. Could Satan do a better Job? Whole denominations that put people under the water and it means nothing. We pretend to baptize you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit! Hold the laughter until later, we know it doesn't mean anything!
How did you chose these fundamental beliefs to remove from your beliefs? And then, what is next? Christ becomes like Santa Claus....a fantasy?
Really! What is next!

Why did Paul say I came not to baptize, seems to me under today’s theology Paul would have been more than qualified?

 

[Philip James]

. Could Satan do a better Job? Whole denominations that put people under the water and it means nothing.

Hello Grailhunter,

Of course 'the better job' and where this spirit leads to is the complete end to the practice of baptism, and thus no fruit to be born...

He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit.

Peace be with you!

 

[Waiting on him]

Seems too me a lot of members on this forum place faith in their water baptism being the foundation of their salvation?

What if the one performing your baptism was a pagan worshiping a pagan god