John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you not see that you are demanding that the perceptions of your flesh establish reality rather than the words of Jesus?

If Jesus' words mean what you claim they mean then the communion elements should really and actually change into human flesh and blood. But that doesn't happen. So you're obviously wrong. None of this 'it is but it isn't' talk. You said Jesus meant the elements actually change into his flesh and blood. If that doesn't happen, then you are wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello Ferris,

natural food yes.. But the Spiritual food that is the Bread of Life Himself?...

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.


For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

why does the Eucharist mass not assure what I highlighted? Did Jesus lie?

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

In A.D. 155, Justin Martyr wrote to the Roman emperor Antoninus Pius in defense of Christianity. He explains to the emperor what happens when the early Christians gather together to celebrate the liturgy.

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

Born in 35A.D.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Do you not see that you are demanding that the perceptions of your flesh establish reality rather than the words of Jesus?

This is why it takes supernatual faith to believe in the Bread of Life and the Cup of Salvation.

@Philip James I completely understand the need to believe what we cannot see with our eyes. And yet, there is a troubling aspect to believing that Jesus was speaking literally (about His body and blood), and not metaphorically in John 6 (quoted below). I have some questions for you.

Do you believe that when the disciples ate the bread and drank the wine with Jesus during the Passover meal that they were eternally saved at that point in light of the fact that Jesus said, "If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever"? In other words, were they born again of the Spirit at that point? They ate the bread and drank the wine. So do you believe that this gave them eternal life prior to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead?

Also, notice that Jesus said, "The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." He's obviously talking about giving His life, being crucified "for the life of the world." I'm reminded that Jesus prophesied His crucifixion in John 3:14-16--"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

John 6:47-58-- “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
At that, the Jews argued among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

So Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the manna your fathers ate — and they died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.”

 

[bbyrd009]

Jacob is a great nation, literally and spiritually, to this day.

ah. what nation is that?

And Esau? Well.....uh....umm...

well, uh, umm, what?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

ah. what nation is that?

That nation is the natural nation of Israel. And the spiritual nation of everyone who has the faith of Abraham.

well, uh, umm, what?

Where are Esau's descendants today?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Somehow this turned into you have to believe the elements change into the blood and body of Christ in order to be saved. Instead of you have to partake of the communion elements in order to be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Philip James I completely understand the need to believe what we cannot see with our eyes. And yet, there is a troubling aspect to believing that Jesus was speaking literally (about His body and blood), and not metaphorically in John 6 (quoted below). I have some questions for you.

Do you believe that when the disciples ate the bread and drank the wine with Jesus during the Passover meal that they were eternally saved at that point in light of the fact that Jesus said, "If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever"? In other words, were they born again of the Spirit at that point? They ate the bread and drank the wine. So do you believe that this gave them eternal life prior to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead?

Also, notice that Jesus said, "The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." He's obviously talking about giving His life, being crucified "for the life of the world." I'm reminded that Jesus prophesied His crucifixion in John 3:14-16--"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

John 6:47-58-- “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
At that, the Jews argued among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

So Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the manna your fathers ate — and they died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.”

Amen

the Eucharist does not give what Jesus promised. Thus it must not be the flesh and blood of John 6. It’s impossible

 

[bbyrd009]

That nation is the natural nation of Israel.

ah, you think? id seek other opinions there wadr

And the spiritual nation of everyone who has the faith of Abraham.

or what was counted as faith anyway huh

Where are Esau's descendants today?

oh, surely they're alive and well, spiritually speaking anyway
and fwiw imo it would serve you to find them

Somehow this turned into you have to believe the elements change into the blood and body of Christ in order to be saved. Instead of you have to partake of the communion elements in order to be saved.

Esau needed red stew too huh
rituals are from the grave, even if we all start there i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

In A.D. 155, Justin Martyr wrote to the Roman emperor Antoninus Pius in defense of Christianity. He explains to the emperor what happens when the early Christians gather together to celebrate the liturgy.

oh goodie another wolf-explainer, huh
Paul was surely spot-on there imo
i know the wolves will rush in as soon as i leave, not sparing the flock

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

Did the disciples leave because Jesus taught, to “truly believe” in him, required supernatural faith that many disciples did not have?

YES!

The Lord does not just want a relationship with you. He wants “intimacy” with you! We are all made for intimacy. There are studies that show if babies are not held, they can die. We are made for intimacy. It’s extremely intimate when spouses give their entire bodies to each other which create these beautiful babies. We are all intimate human beings.

Our intimate God came into this world as an intimate baby. How awesome is that! In John chapter 6, Jesus took intimacy one big step further. By consuming the Bread of Life, we transform into the Body of Christ. Our intimate God wants to “literally” dwell within each and everyone of us.

In the Bread of Life Discourse, Jesus is talking about the requirement to have supernatural faith. His disciples were not “believing” in his supernatural teachings. Many disciples said, “this saying is hard, who can accept it.”(60). Then Jesus said, “what if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before?” (62) Contextually, why would Jesus say this? Is ascending to heaven incomprehensible? Yes! So is bread becoming literal flesh. It is of the miraculous, and that is the obvious point Jesus makes in verse 62.

Supernatural faith means to believe beyond scientific understanding or laws of nature; of the miraculous similar to his supernatural birth and the multiplying of bread and fish. Many disciples lacked in supernatural faith and therefore left him and went back to their former ways of living.

Consuming his flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul) which gives life, not our sinful flesh which is of no avail. We transform into the Body of Christ by spiritually being fed, so we too rise from the dead.

https://truthcampaign.org/truth-campaign-6/

 

[Tong2020]

I wonder why those who believe in the catholic doctrine of transubstantiation appears to shy away from questions such as those asked of @Truthcampaign.org in post#106 and of @Philip James in post#314.

Perhaps they need a helping hand from any one here who believe in the catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and answer those simple questions in the said post#s.

Tong
R1249

 

[Tong2020]

Is ascending to heaven incomprehensible? Yes! So is bread becoming literal flesh. It is of the miraculous, and that is the obvious point Jesus makes in verse 62.

Is there something miraculous when the wafer remained to be wafer and did not become literal human flesh, more so that of Jesus'? Is there something miraculous when the wine remained to be wine and did not become literal human blood, more so that of Jesus'? Obviously none.

Consuming his flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul) which gives life, not our sinful flesh which is of no avail. We transform into the Body of Christ by spiritually being fed, so we too rise from the dead.

What? Consuming his (literal) flesh and (literal) blood feeds our spirit? Since when did the spirit of man feed of literal flesh and blood? Should it not be that his body is fed with literal material food and his spirit with spiritual food? There is food for the spirit. Don't you know of such food?

Tong
R1250

 

[bbyrd009]

Where are Esau's descendants today?

what if i told you that we are Esau's descendants

 

[bbyrd009]

I wonder why those who believe in the catholic doctrine of transubstantiation appears to shy away from questions such as those asked of @Truthcampaign.org in post#106 and of @Philip James in post#314.

Perhaps they need a helping hand from any one here who believe in the catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and answer those simple questions in the said post#s.

Tong
R1249

Jesus seemed pretty clear to me? Bread is His Body, and new wine His blood?
imo just read the Bible and ignore the ritualizers

 

[Tong2020]

what if i told you that you are Esau's descendant

What's with being Esau's descendants?

Tong
R1251

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus seemed pretty clear to me? Bread is His Body, and new wine His blood?
imo just read the Bible and ignore the ritualizers

Ritualizers?

Tong
R1252

 

[bbyrd009]

What's with being Esau's descendants?

Tong
R1251

we are, yes
imo anyway
all the signs are in evidence

 

[bbyrd009]

its Esau who apparently inherits, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary, right
in the story



after eating red stew