John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

[Wrangler]

He can communicate it, but folks insist it must be written...

Yea, "folks" like prophets, writing God's will and words that guide and protect us from error, including the error of going beyond his words.

For some reason, you foolishly suppose error can be true and it not being an explicit teaching of God means nothing in identifying what is true and what is false.

Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live.
2 Timothy 3:16

Thus, with your tradition which you had handed down to you, you nullify the Word of God!
Mark 7:13

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He can communicate it, but folks insist it must be written...

Yes, because:

“…whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning…” (Romans 15:4)

 

[Wrangler]

He can communicate it, but folks insist it must be written...

Just another way to ADMIT the trinity is NOT in the Bible - not the word and not the concept.

 

[Wrangler]

"No one has ever seen God [the Father]

The Father, who alone is God. You have to add words to Scripture to pretend your doctrine makes sense.\

Scripture explicitly says that no one has seen God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - and multitudes have seen Christ. This is more proof text of the trinity being false.


Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6 ESV

 

[Carl Emerson]

For some reason, you foolishly suppose error can be true

Are you serious.

First you don't know what I 'suppose'

Second you attribute outrageous claims to me - 'error can be true' what planet are you on ???

Sorry but I can't take you seriously.


Have a great day,

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, because:

“…whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning…” (Romans 15:4)

Yes correct, but there is no indication the writings are exhaustive rather the opposite is stated.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm just asking for one verse that actually states your doctrine, that Jesus is YHWH.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Father, who alone is God. You have to add words to Scripture to pretend your doctrine makes sense.\

Scripture explicitly says that no one has seen God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - and multitudes have seen Christ. This is more proof text of the trinity being false.


Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6 ESV

John 14
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”

9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works.

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me... "

 

[Wrangler]

Are you serious.

First you don't know what I 'suppose'

Second you attribute outrageous claims to me - 'error can be true' what planet are you on ???

Sorry but I can't take you seriously.


Have a great day,

It's obvious what you suppose; mysticism. You suppose it regularly. That is why I worded my post the way I did, you suppose you are right DESPITE the lack of an explicit Scripture teaching it. Therefore, you foolishly suppose error (your error) can be true and (suppose) it is true while ALSO not being an explicit teaching of God. It means nothing to you that your doctrine is not explicitly in Scripture in identifying what is true and what is false. Therefore, you suppose the word of God is irrelevant in determining what is true and what is false.

 

[Wrangler]

Scripture explicitly says that no one has seen God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - and multitudes have seen Christ.

John 14

Pasting Scripture must be your way of sweeping the Scripture I referenced aside, denying Scripture that goes against your doctrine. Is it true that Scripture explicitly says that no one has seen God or not?

A Biblical fact that is little advertised by trinitarians is that Jesus explicitly stated he has a God himself (John 20:17, Mark 15:33) who is the only true God (John 17:3). What does this mean for other gods, like the trinitarian god?

The most anti-trinitarian book in the whole Bible, John also explicitly tells us at 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed. So, it is funny to see trinitarians try to twist 1:1 – and indeed, his entire Gospel - to have a purpose other than what John explicitly stated is the purpose of his Gospel!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Genesis 1:1

God in the Hebrew is masculine plural.

 

[Wrangler]

Genesis 1:1

God in the Hebrew is masculine plural.

LOL There are some 20,000 singular pronouns in Scripture referring to God, e.g., me, I, his, him. When God told us in Is 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other. There is no other Elohim besides me. Where do you get the idea of a plural god? Or do you think God was lying when he (singular) said that he (singular) was the only God?

God has a singular personal name and it is not Jesus but Yahweh. Not too complicated.

 

[michaelvpardo]

That’s quite a statement considering the scripture you cite does not say what you say it says. Is it worth to pick a fight with the brethren over this matter? Where in scripture does it tell you to cause division over wether or not Jesus is God?

And when applying your logic as to why “he” should be left out of John 8:24 to all scriptures, who else claims to be “I am” in scripture?

Did the man who was blind from his birth claim to be “I am” in John 9?:

John 9:8-9
[8] The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? [9] Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

After all, “he” is in italics and does not belong in the scriptures according to your logic.

And in John 18 Jesus said “I am” when asked if here were JESUS!

John 18:4-5
Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? [5] They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.

See, again “he” is added to the text.

Your are forcing the scriptures to say what they are not saying.

If you just sober up a little and read the scriptures surrounding John 8:24 you will see what Jesus was referring to when he said “I am”:

John 8:12,24-25
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. ...[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [25] Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

And what did Jesus say in the beginning of the book of John?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you don't believe Jesus is God, then you're not of the brethren, but just another religious cult member. Scripture doesn't speak to cults, but does speak to the divinity of Jesus Christ. Scripture absolutely justifies that type of division by calling those with a different gospel anathema maranatha and exhorting the saints not to entertain or show hospitality to such by allowing them into your home.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Genesis 1:1

God in the Hebrew is masculine plural.

Not really, that's an oversimplification. For example, one word for God is Elohe, while it's plural form is Elohim. Both are generic terms rather than a name, but there are many descriptive names for God. The most commonly used name in the old testament is Yahavah (or Yahweh if you believe the goyim scholars) and the simple contracted form Yah.
Neither are plural forms.

 

[Carl Emerson]

LOL There are some 20,000 singular pronouns in Scripture referring to God, e.g., me, I, his, him. When God told us in Is 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other. There is no other Elohim besides me. Where do you get the idea of a plural god? Or do you think God was lying when he (singular) said that he (singular) was the only God?

God has a singular personal name and it is not Jesus but Yahweh. Not too complicated.

He gave His name to Jesus...

John 17 ESV
11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not really, that's an oversimplification. For example, one word for God is Elohe, while it's plural form is Elohim. Both are generic terms rather than a name, but there are many descriptive names for God. The most commonly used name in the old testament is Yahavah (or Yahweh if you believe the goyim scholars) and the simple contracted form Yah.
Neither are plural forms.

Yes you are correct but I was referencing Gen 1:1 in the text it is plural.

 

[michaelvpardo]

"For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philippians 2:9-11
Jesus is the exact image and representation of the invisible God and scripture identifies Him as creator of all things. Denying His deity is denying His person and embracing wrath.

 

[Wrangler]

He gave His name to Jesus...

John 17 ESV
11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

No, are you serious? ‘Them’ other elect is who YHWH gave to Jesus as part of all authority.

To take this to mean, YHWH have his name has no actual reference. A real stretch of interpretation.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If you don't believe Jesus is God, then you're not of the brethren

Uh huh.

Where’s the scripture telling you to divide over the trinity?

Where’s the scripture telling you that Jesus is God?

Where?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Uh huh.

Where’s the scripture telling you to divide over the trinity?

Where’s the scripture telling you that Jesus is God?

Where?

You want a list?
Off the top of my head, here's a very plain passage:
26 Eight days later His disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be to you.” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see My hands; and take your hand and put it into My side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” John 20:26-29
So, are you going to tell me this is a mistranslation?
There's a reason that the cults always produce novel versions of scripture. The deity of Christ is the dividing line between light and darkness, starting with the Jews and ending with the cults (and quite abruptly when He returns.)
I already understand that some acknowledge the Son of God without acknowledging His deity, but scripture plainly states that God will not share His glory with another, and also plainly states that Jesus is the glory of God.
In the mathematics of logic, 1 + 1 = 1.