John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Grailhunter]

The Heresy of Calvinism

To start things off you have the Eternal Decree as John Calvin called it, which meant that God had determined in advance, before the creation of man and all things, who would be saved (the elect) and who would be damned (the reprobate). The meaning of reprobate means, predestined to damnation. And there is no escape from this. You do not have the free-will to even try.

The theology of John Calvin has been immortalized in the acronym TULIP. That does not mean that he came up with the acronym. The concepts were his doctrines but the acronym first surfaced in the early 20th century. So the five essential doctrines of Calvinism are…. Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and Perseverance of the saints. So these are the five doctrines of Calvinism that make their beliefs unbiblical and define it all as a heresy.

Total depravity…. a state of corruption due to original sin which Calvinists believe infects every part of man's nature to sin and would make it impossible for anyone to be saved if it were not for God’s Irresistible grace which forces them to believe. The total depravity of mankind makes it so that no one would seek, know, or obey God by their own free-will. As in unable to choose God or Christianity if it were not for irresistible grace. So slavery and total control was the only choice. Oh my!

Irresistible grace…..is a doctrine that states that the saving grace of God is forced on those whom He has pre-determined to be saved (the elect). By no free-will of their own they are driven to be Christians, only by the irresistible command of God they are saved. They use the word grace to have a connection with the Bible, but the truth behind the lie is that they believe we have no free-will to choose God, so God turned us all into preprogrammed robots, which according to them is the sovereign nature of God. Which I call the monstrous puppet master.

Unconditional election….is the result of the Eternal Decree in that unconditional election is considered to be one aspect of the Calvinist definition of predestination in which God chooses certain individuals to be saved….the Elect. Those elected receive mercy, while those that are not elected, are punished for the sins they were predestined to commit. The Elect nor the reprobates have the free-will to be good or bad and may commit the same sins but the Elect are shown mercy and forgiveness but reprobates are punished for their sin irregardless. No mercy or escape.

Limited atonement….the doctrine that Christ died only to save the predetermined and predestined Elect.

Perseverance of the saints…. According to Calvinists, since God has drawn the Elect to faith in Christ by regenerating their hearts and convincing them of their sins, and thus saving their souls by His own work and power, their salvation is guaranteed irregardless of their sins. In effect it is a echoing of the Once Saved, Always Saved heresy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

First, Romans 8 does not say that the natural man cannot receive the things of God. That would be 1 Corinthians 2:14.

1 Corinthians 2:14 says:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

Romans 8 says this:

Romans 8:6-8
6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

The carnal mind here is the one that justifies sin or disobedience to God or in doing things their own way.
Notice the word flesh in verse 8.

Now, lets take a look at Galatians 5.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
So they that are in the flesh are in sin or doing sinful deeds (of which they will not inherit the Kingdom of God, i.e. they will not be saved or enter God’s Kingdom and they will unfortunately be destroyed in the Lake of Fire).

\Well thank you for putting the right cite with the right verse.

But the natural cannot please God nor can they receive the things of God! And remember sin doesn't need to be the deed as Jesus said. all we have to do is give mental consent and we are living in sin! but that list is not all encompassing as you know.

The unsaved man is at war with God! Romans 5. We are spiritually dead Ephesians 2. this is the very reason why we have to be Born A

First, Romans 8 does not say that the natural man cannot receive the things of God. That would be 1 Corinthians 2:14.

1 Corinthians 2:14 says:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

Romans 8 says this:

Romans 8:6-8
6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

The carnal mind here is the one that justifies sin or disobedience to God or in doing things their own way.
Notice the word flesh in verse 8.

Now, lets take a look at Galatians 5.

Well thank you for correcting my placing teh wrong cite with a verse!

But as you know th e works of the flesh are far more than just Galatians 5. even just giving mental assent to it is sin. Even the good works done by the unsaved God calls filthy rags! and as Jeremiah declared there is no soundness in man and Paul said in Romans 7 that in our flesh dwells NO GOOD THING! this is why we have to be born again. We need to be made a new Creature! God is not interested in reforming the natural man- He creates us brand new and declares the old man dead and gone!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am a reformed Baptist, and would say his Institutes should be required reading, even if I disagreed with him on Ind ant baptism and Eschatology!

Well for all teh labels we have to describe us (Reformed, dispensational, Covenantal, pre trib etc.etc.) I simply say I am a mongrel, because I don't fully fit ini any of the labels. I seek to study and then compare with Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What a mature response.

Well if you stop making pre-pubescent remarks, I won't answer you according to your folly! YOu love trying to put words in my mouth and I will call you out every time you do!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've read it more times than that already.
It's still not about unconditional election.
He had much patience with his people Israel so that he could spread the good news of the gospel to everyone.
"In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use.
Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work."
2 Timothy 2:20

Nothing unconditional about election.

But election, and predestination have nothing to do with our obedience once we are saved. It has to do with whom God chose before teh world began.

Paul made that clear in rom,ans 9- It is th ePotter who0 has the power over the lump of clay- the clay has no power whatsoever.

then He also exem[plifies Jacvob and Esau showing the choice was Gods before they did anything good or evil.

Then He furhtter exempilfied it is Gods sole choioce when He said He raised Pharoah up just to show His power!

If you cannot understand that there are no preconditions to be elect by God (that is th edefinition of unconditional if you don't know) then your need is beyiong my abilities to help.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have no idea what you are going on about. I never said anything about logic.

Well you have loved to squeal about believing in teh biblical points Calvin brought out one has to give up logic and sanity. I just showed how God does not fit the model of what human logic and sanity says is right or possible.

Calvins 5 points are biblical!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

This is Lifelong sinner, telling the whole truth of calvinisms view of man's inability to choose to be saved, thanks for your honesty!

"The fall of man as discussed in the WCF chpt 6.
“By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.”

yea, total depravity or “T” in tulip is the result of the fall in the garden and is passed down generation to generation. That is why its called a curse"

Thankyou, Lifelong sinner.

Lifelong sinner has confirmed what I and others have been teaching.
That is, calvinism does not allow individuals freewill to choose God to save them.

Now listen to Pinseeker spin the truth on calvinism's teaching of man's inability to choose God to be saved,


Pinseeker claims mankind can choose God,
Pinseeker is teaching freewill.
Pinseeker then contradicts his free will claim by stating man will only choose sin.

Notice Pinseeker says man is a slave to unrighteous living.

Are slaves free?

Pinseeker like his mentor RC Sproul, use double talk as a tactic to try and make their calvinist theology appear to be logical.
The calvinist shut down any skepticism by telling you not to use reason to what calvinist theology is teaching.
Rather, you must accept calvinism is Biblical.
If you point out the illogical contradictory, statements made as Pinseeker does with freewill.
They, in my experience, will accuse you of using human reasoning instead of Godly wisdom.

This human reasoning accusation is worldly reason or mans wisdom.

Using logical reasoning in not the same as what the Bible teaches as the "wisdom of the world".

Therefore this is a false accusation used to try and get the non-calvinist to accept their demand that logical reasoning be abandoned when reading the teachings of calvinism.

As I have said to become a calvinist you must,
Abandon logic and embrace insanity.

so first off, im not sure if this was your intent, but you seem to be trying to put me and pinseeker at odds. We’re not. We are both calvinists, and i can assure you that pinseeker is much smarter about calvinism than i ever could be.
Second, yes i do like to refer back to the WCF. Often. Most people on this forum arent aware of what that confession is let alone what it says. My church likes to use the WCF during our call to worship. It answers a lot about calvinism and is the Biblical truth. It needs to be used more on this forum, especially for new folk.
third, RC Sproul was an amazing man. He knew the Bible so well, he knew and could teach calvinism AKA Biblical truths in such a way that anyone could understand it. Again, i wish i knew even half as much about the Bible as he did. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Sproul, i wish he were still here to teach us.

 

[Titus]

Pinseeker, RC Sproul was asked the question I posed to you,
Why did Adam sin without having a supposed totally depraved sinful nature.
Adam had to,have sinned against God being created in the image of God. Adam was created upright.

Pinseeker, are you aware of RC Sproul's answer?
He said what I said!
That it doesn't make sense that Adam sinned against God!
RC, said we simply do not understand why Adam in his perfect upright godly righteous state would choose to rebel against God.

But you being Pinseeker, think you know more than RC Sproul on the subject.

Well, I'm sorry Pinseeker but RC Sproul makes logical sense by saying it does not make sense based on calvinist doctrine why Adam sinned against God.
Therefore your explanation does not give a sound logical answer to this problem.
Unfortunately you cannot see your answer does not fit in with calvinist theology of why men sin.

As I have said multiple times now,
Calvinism teaches men sin because they have a "sin nature".
Totally depraved, wicked immoral reprobates that only desire evil. Their hearts are corrupt opposite of all good.

Yet Adam was righteous as God is righteous!
Yet totally lacking this "sinful nature " Adam chose with his freewill to sin against God.
Just as the angels in heaven did.

Does Adam's sin prove give the evidence needed for Calvinism to be Biblical?

No! Just the opposite!
It proves NO SIN NATURE IS NEEDED FOR MAN TO COMMIT SIN!!!!

Therefore, MAN SINS FOR THE SAME REASON ADAM SINNED!
Because of his own freewill!

The Bible teaches Adam was created upright in the image of God yet sinned.
The Bible teaches ALL men are created in the image of God yet CHOOSE BY FREWILL To sin against God.

btw, The very famous Calvinist Matt Slick who's website is CARM.
Mr. Slick teaches that according to calvinism man has NO freewill to choose to be saved.

Pinseeker says man does have freewill except when he changes his story and says we do not.

The story of Adam and Eve disprove the need to have a "sinful nature" for the cause of mans rebellion against God ie sin.

Calvinist (most) think if not a calvinist then automatically you must be Arminian.
I am neither.
I am a Christian, who only uses the Bible with its Inspired writers teachings to interpret the Bible.
I do not need Arminian's writings to understand the word.
Certainly cannot understand the Bible if it is learned through the error's of John Calvin.

Fact: there is no depraved sin nature we inherit from Adam.
All sin, while being just as Adam, created upright in the image of God,

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly, this only I have found:
That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

This is all of mankind Solomon is speaking of.
Not the twisting of the verse calvinist say is only Adam. It says man not Adam.

Pinseeker admits no need for the doctrine of inherited sin necessary to be lost.
It can be as Adam. Saved or lost by choice ie freewill,

At first. See above. Again, that he did not have a sinful nature ~ at first ~ does not mean somehow that he did not have the capability of disobeying God and thus sinning

 

[Titus]

The difference between you and Pinseeker is,
Pinseeker is smart at double speak.
You friend, dont try and cover up the ugly bits of calvinism.
You openly tell calvinism like it is.

I like your honesty.
It's sad you are completely deceived into this doctrine.
This is why you do not feel obligated to straighten up your life by repenting of your sins and obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You feel because of this false doctrine of total depravity you are incapable of turning from your sins.
You believe because of calvinism you are not one of the elect.

I fear for you, Life long sinner.
I'm afraid it will only be revealed to you on judgment day,
that God was willing that you give your life to Him, that He might save you.
Because of your indoctrination you cannot see that you will be lost because Calvin deceived you into believing you are not predestined to be saved.
You love John Calvin now.
You will hate him in the next life.

 

[Titus]

So you have God forcibly changing people's hearts in order to save them... where is that in scripture? It's not.

Amen, amen, amen

Unconditional election is found nowhere in the Bible!
It is hog wash.

 

[Titus]

So you do not believers preachers are inspired by the Holy Spirit to preach their messages? That is truly sad! and of course I am not talking false messages.



Yes every translatiopn from language to another will lose impact, but God is able to preserve His Word in all the translations. As th echur4ch is now 2,000 yeares removed from its birth- we need to study harder with the original languages and cultural histories to better understand what is written.

As I have written before and you seem to ignore, I am not a Calvinist! I believe in teh five points that were presented to rebut the heresies of Jacob Armenius, but that is because they are Scripture!

So tell me, how did Paul prove what He taught was from God- for He taught a lot of large differences to the gentiles than th e original apostles preached to the Jews.

and it is you who doesn't understand inspiration. There is the Inspiration that came from God for the writing of Scripture. The writers did not even know they were undewr a unique and special grace from God. Then there is the inspiration God gives when one is going to teach His Word so they may faithfully teach and protect their message from error.

You believe your calvinist pastor, preacher is Inspired?
That is more proof men are not Inspired today.

 

[PinSeeker]

RC, said we simply do not understand why Adam in his perfect upright godly righteous state would choose to rebel against God.

And I would agree with that. Other than he chose ~ for some reason; we are not told why, so we don't know why ~ to disobey God. Obviously, he was created with the ability to do so (God created him, of course), and he did. For some reason. The reason itself, Adam's reason for disobeying, whatever it was, really makes no difference.

But you being Pinseeker, think you know more than RC Sproul on the subject.

Nope. See above.

RC Sproul makes logical sense by saying it does not make sense based on calvinist doctrine why Adam sinned against God.

That's not what he said. He said, merely, that we don't understand why. It really has nothing to do with any kind of doctrine. It just is what it is. We don't understand why.

Therefore your explanation does not give a sound logical answer to this problem.

Therefore, Titus ~ sorry to ruin your "gotcha" moment ~ you have nothing. We cannot give an answer to this problem, just like good ole Dead Sea Scroll ~ that's what we called him behind his back in seminary... ~ said.

Unfortunately you cannot see your answer does not fit in with calvinist theology of why men sin.

Again, John Calvin was very clear in saying that Adam had the ability to disobey God. It's quite ridiculous to think otherwise. It is what it is.

As I have said multiple times now, Calvinism teaches men sin because they have a "sin nature".

Yes. It's a terrible thing. As Jeremiah (17:9) says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?"

Yet Adam was righteous as God is righteous!

In that he had not sinned before the events of Genesis 3, sure. But he was not God. So yes, he was righteous in this way, in God's image, but only before and up until he sinned ~ disobeyed God ~ was this image in him not corrupted. And at that moment, on that very day, he died, just as God warned him he would if he ate of the fruit of the tree. At that point, he took on this sinful nature. He knew sin from that point on, which is to say far, far more than just becoming cognitively aware of it, but rather intimately acquainted with it and even dead in his sin, a slave to unrighteousness. And this became the natural human condition from that point on.

Yet totally lacking this "sinful nature " Adam chose with his freewill to sin against God.
Yes, and we don't know why, except that he did so of his own will and accord. And then took on this intimate knowledge and slavery to unrighteousness/sin. We have it from birth.

Just as the angels in heaven did.

Does Adam's sin prove give the evidence needed for Calvinism to be Biblical? No! Just the opposite! It proves NO SIN NATURE IS NEEDED FOR MAN TO COMMIT SIN!!!!

Yeah, I've never said otherwise. But "needing a sin nature" is not Calvinism anyway, so the question itself is a non sequitur. However, because of the sin nature Adam acquired on that fateful day, he could not, from that point on, perfectly avoid sin. And this is true of us from birth.

Therefore, MAN SINS FOR THE SAME REASON ADAM SINNED! Because of his own freewill!

I agree. I've said that many times. But Adam had the ability to avoid sin perfectly. We do not, because of the state we are all in because Adam is our first father. And he fell into this same state that terrible day.

The Bible teaches Adam was created upright in the image of God yet sinned.

The Bible teaches ALL men are created in the image of God yet CHOOSE BY FREWILL To sin against God.

The very famous Calvinist Matt Slick who's website is CARM. Mr. Slick teaches that according to calvinism man has NO freewill to choose to be saved. Pinseeker says man does have freewill except when he changes his story and says we do not.

Again, you conflate. Man is naturally dead in his sin. Dead is dead. Can a dead man choose anything, Titus? Well, of course not. But once he is born again of the Spirit, then he can see, and then choose the Right he will, of his own free will and accord.

The story of Adam and Eve disprove the need to have a "sinful nature" for the cause of mans rebellion against God ie sin.

Again, a non sequitur. It is what it is. Adam did what he did, and took on the nature that he did, and therefore man is born with the nature that he naturally has.

Fact: there is no depraved sin nature we inherit from Adam.

Well that's not fact at all, but quite the opposite is. But again, far be it from me to deprive you of your opinion... as if I could so such a thing anyway.

All sin, while being just as Adam, created upright in the image of God,

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly, this only I have found:
That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

This is all of mankind Solomon is speaking of.
Not the twisting of the verse calvinist say is only Adam. It says man not Adam.

Well, Adam was a created man, too, right? He certainly was. So yes, he sought out many schemes, from Genesis 3 on. That was his ~ and our ~ undoing. "But thanks be to God, that we who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which we were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness" (Romans 6:17-18). And this was true of Adam also.

Pinseeker admits no need for the doctrine of inherited sin necessary to be lost.

Yeah, like I said, it is what it is. Adam took it on, and we have it from birth as a result of Adam's having taken it on. It is what it is, inherited or no. We must be born again of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God.

It can be as Adam. Saved or lost by choice ie freewill

We are not saved by free will at all. It depends on God and His mercy/compassion, which He has on whom He will have it. This is His purpose ~ not ours by any stretch of the imagination ~ of election. We do not "elect ourselves" in any way. Your statement here is very Arminian and wrong, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a dear sister that visits this site . All i can say is
her saying sums up the truth . And that is her choice too . She knows who she is .
My advice is , follow not the CC , nor the C . Heed not Rome and heed not calvin .
Let us simply learn the bible for ourselves .
GOD determined that JESUS CHRIST would be the savoir of the world and that all who do BELIEVE would be saved
but that all who do reject would be damned . THAT Is what we need to know .Simply preach JESUS .
IF one rejects that is on them . IF they accept they shall be saved . Keep it real simple i say .

 

[PinSeeker]

Pinseeker is smart at double speak.

Wow. Just... wow. LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, amen, amen

Unconditional election is found nowhere in the Bible!
It is hog wash.

For the elect are those who truly believe in JESUS CHRIST .
Now let all that draws breath praise the glorious LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Wow. Just... wow. LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

It has been said that laughter does good to the soul .
Something got ol pinseeker tickled .

 

[Titus]

You really are the spinseeker.

Yes. It's a terrible thing. As Jeremiah (17:9) says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?"

Here you go again!

You are interpreting Jeremiah 17:9 to be a inherited sin nature verse. And using this verse to "prove" our "sin nature" is the reason we sin!
Did you already forget today you said Adam did not have a "sin nature" and sinned!

Inconsistent, contradictions! Adam sinned without this cause of sin ie sin nature.
Thus disproving your use of Jeremiah 17:9 as a proof text for the cause of sin ie sin nature.

You want to prove calvinism by stating Adam commits sin without a sinful nature, ergo calvinism is true.
Then also prove calvinism by stating we sin because of a sin nature.

Adam sinning without a sin nature, yet sins despite being upright,
Proves that we do not have to have inherited a sin nature to choose to sin.

So, Jeremiah 17:9 is not a proof text for proof of this supposed depraved inherited sin nature.
We do not need a sin nature to sin!

Jeremiah 17:9 speaks of what men can BECOME not what their nature is!

Not all mens hearts are wicked!
Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.

Man did not start with a wicked heart.
Man sought out many schemes. That is showing us we go astray, we are not born seeking out many schemes.

Below Pinseeker teaches we do not know why Adam sins against God,

And I would agree with that. Other than he chose ~ for some reason; we are not told why, so we don't know why ~ to disobey God. Obviously, he was created with the ability to do so, because God created him, and he did

Now listen to Pinseeker teach he knows why Adam sinned against God,

Well this is a different question. This question is easily answerable. What we see from scripture is that Eve was deceived by Satan. Adam, who was there with her, could have and should have stepped in and said, "No, God told us not to." Why? Well probably a number of reasons, but obviously he was tempted by Satan's assertion He and Eve would "be like God, knowing good and evil." Pride goes before the fall... where have I heard that recently...? Anyway, Adam knew he was disobeying God and chose to do so anyway. He failed, and plunged the human race into this state of death, which is exactly what God told him would happen in that very day in Genesis 2:17.

Once again Pinseeker says he knows why Adam sinned sometimes.
Then when it is convenient for his position he claims he does not know why Adam sinned.

Pinseeker is truly a calvinist debater. His main tactic is double speak.

 

[amigo de christo]

You really are the spinseeker.


Here you go again!

You are interpreting Jeremiah 17:9 to be a inherited sin nature verse. And using this verse to "prove" our "sin nature" is the reason we sin!
Did you already forget today you said Adam did not have a "sin nature" and sinned!

Inconsistent, contradictions! Adam sinned without this cause of sin ie sin nature.
Thus disproving your use of Jeremiah 17:9 as a proof text for the cause of sin ie sin nature.

You want to prove calvinism by stating Adam commits sin without a sinful nature, ergo calvinism is true.
Then also prove calvinism by stating we sin because of a sin nature.

Adam sinning without a sin nature, yet sins despite being upright,
Proves that we do not have to have inherited a sin nature to choose to sin.

So, Jeremiah 17:9 is not a proof text for proof of this supposed depraved inherited sin nature.
We do not need a sin nature to sin!

Jeremiah 17:9 speaks of what men can BECOME not what their nature is!

Not all mens hearts are wicked!
Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.

Man did not start with a wicked heart.
Man sought out many schemes. That is showing us we go astray, we are not born seeking out many schemes.

Below Pinseeker teaches we do not know why Adam sins against God,


Now listen to Pinseeker teach he knows why Adam sinned against God,


Once again Pinseeker says he knows why Adam sinned sometimes.
Then when it is convenient for his position he claims he does not know why Adam sinned.

Pinseeker is truly a calvinist debater. His main tactic is double speak.

Well it looks like titus made a real good point my friends .
We cant have it both ways .

 

[amigo de christo]

God even created satan perfect . The problem is not with GOD .
HE simply gives free will .
This might help . We know that it is not sin for GOD to desire the worship
But it is sin for the created to seek such a thing .
Lucifer had free will . HE simply became enamored with his own self and that was his down fall .
Adam was created upright , but he was given a choice . And told DO NOT EAT from such a tree .
WELL eve did and he chose to eat of her hand . THE FAULT is not in how Man was made
the fault lies in man when he chose to DISOBEY GOD . I hope that helps too .
And all have sinned so we cant blame adam . OH BUT PRAISE GOD FOR CHRIST .
FOR IN HIM we have the way BACK TO GOD . REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST .
NOW that is a song one can sing ALL DAY and NEVER GROW WEARY OF IT .

 

[Titus]

Pinseeker, RC Sproul was asked the question I posed to you,
Why did Adam sin without having a supposed totally depraved sinful nature.
Adam had to,have sinned against God being created in the image of God. Adam was created upright.

Pinseeker, are you aware of RC Sproul's answer?
He said what I said!
That it doesn't make sense that Adam sinned against God!
RC, said we simply do not understand why Adam in his perfect upright godly righteous state would choose to rebel against God.

But you being Pinseeker, think you know more than RC Sproul on the subject.

Well, I'm sorry Pinseeker but RC Sproul makes logical sense by saying it does not make sense based on calvinist doctrine why Adam sinned against God.
Therefore your explanation does not give a sound logical answer to this problem.
Unfortunately you cannot see your answer does not fit in with calvinist theology of why men sin.

As I have said multiple times now,
Calvinism teaches men sin because they have a "sin nature".
Totally depraved, wicked immoral reprobates that only desire evil. Their hearts are corrupt opposite of all good.

Yet Adam was righteous as God is righteous!
Yet totally lacking this "sinful nature " Adam chose with his freewill to sin against God.
Just as the angels in heaven did.

Does Adam's sin prove give the evidence needed for Calvinism to be Biblical?

No! Just the opposite!
It proves NO SIN NATURE IS NEEDED FOR MAN TO COMMIT SIN!!!!

Therefore, MAN SINS FOR THE SAME REASON ADAM SINNED!
Because of his own freewill!

The Bible teaches Adam was created upright in the image of God yet sinned.
The Bible teaches ALL men are created in the image of God yet CHOOSE BY FREWILL To sin against God.

btw, The very famous Calvinist Matt Slick who's website is CARM.
Mr. Slick teaches that according to calvinism man has NO freewill to choose to be saved.

Pinseeker says man does have freewill except when he changes his story and says we do not.

The story of Adam and Eve disprove the need to have a "sinful nature" for the cause of mans rebellion against God ie sin.

Calvinist (most) think if not a calvinist then automatically you must be Arminian.
I am neither.
I am a Christian, who only uses the Bible with its Inspired writers teachings to interpret the Bible.
I do not need Arminian's writings to understand the word.
Certainly cannot understand the Bible if it is learned through the error's of John Calvin.

Fact: there is no depraved sin nature we inherit from Adam.
All sin, while being just as Adam, created upright in the image of God,

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly, this only I have found:
That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

This is all of mankind Solomon is speaking of.
Not the twisting of the verse calvinist say is only Adam. It says man not Adam.

Pinseeker admits no need for the doctrine of inherited sin necessary to be lost.
It can be as Adam. Saved or lost by choice ie freewill.