John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Ronald Nolette]

You seen what you wanted to see to fit a certain viewpoint about God that is appealing to a particular wrong mindset that people have about God. There are people who think God is not a Trinity and they did not learn about that from a church, too. That does not mean they are correct for reading the Bible in a wrong way. You have to ignore a whole ton of free will verses in order to fit your viewpoint about God to work involving your belief in 5 point Calvinism.

A whole ton?

Be careful but list 5.

You seen what you wanted to see to fit a certain viewpoint about God that is appealing to a particular wrong mindset that people have about God. There are people who think God is not a Trinity and they did not learn about that from a church, too. That does not mean they are correct for reading the Bible in a wrong way. You have to ignore a whole ton of free will verses in order to fit your viewpoint about God to work involving your belief in 5 point Calvinism.

Is this proclamation of yours infallible or just a spitball from you? when I got saved, I had a Catholic mindset about god blurred by Satanism, Hinduism and Secularism amongst other things! I got a bible in teh mail and sought to learn god from scratch.

but thank you for the subtle ad-hominem! I think it is you Armeniasts who have the wrong mindset. You seek to salvage a portion of ego that would throw to God, that I decided to make up my mind on whether or not to get saved! YOu may have lured me God, but it was all my won decision! Sounds alot like what Cain did!

It does not matter. All five points of Calvinism are not biblical in the slightest sense. I used to believe in Total Depravity, but I have come to find that even that point is unbiblical after a deeper examination of the Scriptures. Men are not totally depraved whereby they cannot respond to God. God actually holds men accountable for not obeying Him and or believing in Him. Yes, God must draw a person, but Christ draws all men unto Himself as the Scriptures say. I mean ask yourself. Why is God angry at the wicked every day according to Psalms 7:11? Cannot God just snap his fingers to do His will and not be angry anymore? In other words, Calvinism does not make any sense. In the world of Calvinism: God should never be angry because He decrees all things to happen.

YOu need to go deeper, you are still in shallow water my brother. And now you are telling God whether or not He can be angry or not?? WOW!

YOu have to play twister to show that the unsaved man has nothing good in him and cannot please God. That is because of your indoctrination into Armeniast thought!

 

[reformed1689]

Your a non-Calvinist who believes in the 5 points of Calvinism. Right. So how is that not a contradiction?

Because the five points aren't Calvinism, they are biblical.

 

[reformed1689]

First, there is no phrase in the Bible that says that the WHOLE WORLD is in reference to the Gentiles only. The WHOLE WORLD would include both the Jews and Gentiles or it would be talking about our planet.

So the Calvinistic explain away on 1 John 2:2 is not really reading it in a way that sounds like the WHOLE world. The Calvinist is taking the WHOLE world to refer to just the Gentiles and it is not literally the WHOLE world. So one is reading this phrase as being more metaphorical to fit one's own personal pet belief they want to be true (that paints a picture of God that is dark, and wrong and to live a life that is without any responsibility).

Second, if Calvinism was true, and it wanted to refer to the Gentiles, it would either say Gentiles, or it would refer to the sins of every nation, etcetera. John would not say that Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE world if he was referring to the Gentiles because the whole world is made up more than the Gentiles but it also includes the Jews. Besides, how do they explain away 2 Peter 2:1? It says the false teachers deny the Lord who have bought them. Obviously false teachers are not saved, and yet the verse says that the Lord has bought them.

Here is the problem, how does whole world automatically mean all individuals?

Here is an example: During the world series the announcer says "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that literally mean every individual in the entire world is watching the world series? Of course not. As far as 2 Peter 2:1 there is nothing to explain away. You just don't like a little thing called context.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Um, what do you think Election actually is and what I believe about it? Because you have no idea what you are talking about.l

I know what Calvinism teaches concerning Election. Either you are a Calvinist or not. I don't need you to tell me what you believe. I already know.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So mans disobedience is stronger than the Will of god?

Mans free will supersedes gods will? I don't think so! Teh word is boulamai and it is in the Present participle active. It is not gods Will but Gods desire! Even Jesus knew the majority of mankind ends up in the lake of fire!

Gods will is sovereign in the universe- nothing or no one can contradict the will of god!

You contradict the will of God all the time.

God sets limits and defines boundaries. Man moves within those boundaries and limits of his own free will.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Here is the problem, how does whole world automatically mean all individuals?

Here is an example: During the world series the announcer says "The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that literally mean every individual in the entire world is watching the world series? Of course not. As far as 2 Peter 2:1 there is nothing to explain away. You just don't like a little thing called context.

The world series announcer didn't write the Scriptures. The author's of the Scriptures spoke from God. God isn't silly like world series announcers

 

[praise_yeshua]

Because the five points aren't Calvinism, they are biblical.

Conflation and utter nonsense. You're making a "loaded statement"....

 

[praise_yeshua]

A whole ton?

Be careful but list 5.



Is this proclamation of yours infallible or just a spitball from you? when I got saved, I had a Catholic mindset about god blurred by Satanism, Hinduism and Secularism amongst other things! I got a bible in teh mail and sought to learn god from scratch.

but thank you for the subtle ad-hominem! I think it is you Armeniasts who have the wrong mindset. You seek to salvage a portion of ego that would throw to God, that I decided to make up my mind on whether or not to get saved! YOu may have lured me God, but it was all my won decision! Sounds alot like what Cain did!



YOu need to go deeper, you are still in shallow water my brother. And now you are telling God whether or not He can be angry or not?? WOW!

YOu have to play twister to show that the unsaved man has nothing good in him and cannot please God. That is because of your indoctrination into Armeniast thought!

Why should anyone take you seriously when you're using Armeniast instead of Arminist. Armenia is a country.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No what I said does not necessitate that I deserve to be saved. The point was NOBODY deserves to be saved. The fact that God saves ANYWAY is gracious and merciful. He is not required to save anyone at all.

They why do you require God to save you?

 

[reformed1689]

I know what Calvinism teaches concerning Election. Either you are a Calvinist or not. I don't need you to tell me what you believe. I already know.

Your other post would suggest otherwise.

 

[reformed1689]

They why do you require God to save you?

When have I claimed that? You are making up bogus arguments about things I have not actually said. That's called a strawman argument.

 

[reformed1689]

Conflation and utter nonsense. You're making a "loaded statement"....

So prove otherwise. The five points come straight out of the teaching of Scripture. If you say they don't, prove it.

 

[reformed1689]

The world series announcer didn't write the Scriptures. The author's of the Scriptures spoke from God. God isn't silly like world series announcers

The point is, how does "whole world" automatically equal "all individuals"? That is the claim you are making so back it up.

 

[Grailhunter]

Right, we do not have absolute free will. We have a will that is enslaved to sin. A will that wants sin and nothing else.

So prove otherwise. The five points come straight out of the teaching of Scripture. If you say they don't, prove it.

The five points of Calvinism come straight out of the teachings of Satan.
All and all the beliefs and promulgation of such believes can lead others down the path to hell.
This is a warning to all that might be reading this thread.
Calvinism is a trophy on Satan's shelf, I am sure he dances in the aisles of their churches.
How many people in the congregations of those churches really know how their beliefs blasphemes God.
It is one thing for Satan to get the souls of the evil, but how delightful for him to get the souls of those that love God but have been fooled into attending Calvinist churches.

 

[JesusFan1]

Adam exercised his free will to sin against God. Man does the same thing continually.

There is no difference. Can you explain how they are different?

Adam had no sin nature until he fell, but our free will now limited by the sin nature, as there are things that we cannot desire nor will ourselves to do now!

 

[JesusFan1]

We do, actually, but we are do not have the same nature that Adam possessed before the Fall. Free will is not the issue. The state of our heart is.

Grace and peace to you.

Adam was created without a sin nature, we are born with one, and they are not the same!

 

[reformed1689]

The five points of Calvinism come straight out of the teachings of Satan.
All and all the beliefs and promulgation of such believes can lead others down the path to hell.
This is a warning to all that might be reading this thread.
Calvinism is a trophy on Satan's shelf, I am sure he dances in the aisles of their churches.
How many people in the congregations of those churches really know how their beliefs blasphemes God.
It is one thing for Satan to get the souls of the evil, but how delightful for him to get the souls of those that love God but have been fooled into attending Calvinist churches.

Out of the teachings of Satan? What a claim! Now prove it.
How does it blaspheme God? Again, back your outrageous claims up.

Big talk, no substance. Goodbye.

 

[Enoch111]

So mans disobedience is stronger than the Will of God?

You can call it whatever you wish. But it is a fact and here is the Bible proof:

ROMANS 10: BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL
16 But they have not all obeyed the Gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

1. Did God and Christ desire the salvation of all Israel? Absolutely
2. Did the majority of Jews reject Christ? Absolutely
3. Was this actually disobedience to the Gospel? Absolutely
4. Did God allow this disobedience? Absolutely

If anything, every Jew should have been saved, since Israel was the "elect" nation of God. But the truth is that only a small believing remnant was saved.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your other post would suggest otherwise.

Deflecting will get you nowhere. I was debated Calvinism with DTS Alumni a very long time ago. None of them claimed I "didn't know" Calvinism.

Like others have said. It seems this is the favorite argument of modern Calvinists.... "you don't really know Calvinism"....

Adam had no sin nature until he fell, but our free will now limited by the sin nature, as there are things that we cannot desire nor will ourselves to do now!

Adam wasn't impeccable. Are you claiming he was? Saying he didn't have a sin nature until he fell doesn't change the fact that he willing choose to sin. Satan influenced Eve and Adam sinned so as to not lose Eve.

The Gospel provides remedy. The Gospel is not difficult to understand and this life "sets the stage" for disappointment. It drives us to know ourselves. To know what a message of "hope" is. To say that a human being can't understand the Gospel is ridiculous.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The point is, how does "whole world" automatically equal "all individuals"? That is the claim you are making so back it up.

All human beings. Is there more than one "kind" of human being?

You're the one making a "kind" argument when all human beings are sinners. They are all the same "kind". If Jesus Christ died for one sinner, HE died for them all. ALL THE SAME KIND.....

A "kind" argue is empty when it comes from a Calvinist.