John Darby

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VictoryinJesus

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Well...I would say that we're not told they DIDN'T eat from the tree of life...initially:

Have wondered if they had eaten of the tree of Life prior...but my questions is: if they were removed because if they reached out and ate of the tree of Life and would live forever; then wouldn’t they ‘live forever’. and if they had eaten and lived forever because of eating of the tree of Life...then eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when tempted; changed what Life had given and provided for them prior into death. If they had eaten of the tree of Life, my question is: then did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil have victory over what Life had given and stole (took away) that Life?

I would guess that 'continued' eternal life depends on the 'continued' access to the tree, which yields fruit "each month". I'm not dogmatic on it, and there's really not that much information, so, like I said, it's just a guess, and it could very well be that the 'tree and fruit' is imagery for something else...but that's the general gist of it.
Does Galatians 5:22 heal and restore ‘But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,’? ‘For the healing of the nations’ does the fruit of the Spirit heal? Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed(wasted, destroyed, where moth does not consume) : it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters (springing up unto Life)they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. (Which fades not) but remains...which the great physician gives. 1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth (remains)faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


(Imo) still present: eat of Life or eat of death Jeremiah 21:8-11 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the Lord ; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.
 
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Davy

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Tch, tch, tch, you misquoted me. I pointed to 'several' Scriptures, not just one verse:

"... what about Revelation 19:11-21? and Zechariah 14? and 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10? and Jude 1:14-15? and Joel 3:11-17?"


first it isn’t just one verse but there are many pertaining to fight (stand) and putting on of the whole armour of God. Nothing there to put on, carry, or arm is physical from the breastplate, to the weapons, down to the having your feet shod with the gospel of peace. even 1 Peter 4:1 speaks in battle terms in ‘arm yourselves likewise with the same mind’ “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;”

Nah, you cannot try to twist metaphorical speech in God's Word with revelation of a direct literal event.

The Rev.19; Zech.14 2nd coming of Christ with His army to fight is about a LITERAL fight upon the wicked on the final day of this world. That's why I listed more than one Scripture about that battle on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this world. That is literal, not metaphorical. The Ephesians 6 putting on the Gospel armor is metaphorical about being strong in The Faith in order to 'stand' against Christ's enemies mentally and spiritually, to endure even physical death if it comes to that (Mark 13:12). That's different than the revelation of Christ's return with His army of angels.

Curious how many sacrifices, how many ‘the supper of the great God’ do you say there are? Revelation 19:17-18 is very similar to the one you quoted from Revelations “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; [18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.”

Well, you should read Ezekiel 38 and 39, and you should see about that coming supper of The Great God at the end of this world. We are even told about those of Israel that will burying their dead enemies for 7 years after that event, which is not metaphor.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Well, you should read Ezekiel 38 and 39, and you should see about that coming supper of The Great God at the end of this world. We are even told about those of Israel that will burying their dead enemies for 7 years after that event, which is not metaphor.

‘that coming supper of The great God’ makes me consider the ‘coming’marriage supper of the Lamb and the Lords supper with the breaking of bread...

it is all confusing. The breaking of bread and the Lords supper ...1 Corinthians 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

how does the Lords Supper differ from the marriage supper of the Lamb? Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Where does calling to the fowls of heaven and to the beast of the field, calling them to come gather and eat of the supper of The great God...fit in? How many suppers of God are there?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Well, you should read Ezekiel 38 and 39, and you should see about that coming supper of The Great God at the end of this world. We are even told about those of Israel that will burying their dead enemies for 7 years after that event, which is not metaphor.


Ezekiel 39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog.

Matthew 8:21-22 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. [22] But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:59-62 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. [60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. [61] And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. [62] And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Philippians 3:13-14 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
 

Naomi25

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That's certainly not true, but only making excuses to keep following ideas that are 'against' God's written Word.
He said, more or less proving my point.
Sir, I wish you well, but once again, I have no desire to enter into a conversation with someone who starts with the assumption that they are 'right' and the other is not merely 'mistaken', but they are, in fact, 'against Gods word'...in other words, antichrist.
Good day.
 

Naomi25

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Was commenting on your pointing out the difference in light and comparing it to the difference in ministrations, only in saying I see your point there is a difference. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? [9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Just an opinion but was pointing out the parables: how maybe on the surface is the ministration of condemnation but yet there is also ‘let him hear’. Is the ‘let him hear’ where the vail remains (even until this day)or when it is removed? (If I told you earthly things and you believed me not, how then will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? By whose power?) 2 Corinthians 3:14-17 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

maybe still confusing, main point I was attempting to make is: there is a difference in light, same as there is a difference of ministrations.

Working on commenting on the now/not yet
No, I think you're absolutely right. When a person has 'ears to hear' that veil is definitely removed. And those who do not have ears to hear and understand the parables remain under that veil. And, I suppose in the case of 2 Cor 3, specifically the Jews, who clung to the old covenant, not seeing that it must pass away and be replaced by the new, better covenant of Christ's blood. But...not seeing...that was the problem, wasn't it. And Romans 11 tells us that this 'hardening'...this blindness, is, in actuality, part of God's plan, in order that his new covenant may go out to all the world, and in this way his promise to Abraham to 'through him bless all nations' may be fulfilled. The thing I love about Rom 11 is that Paul seems to suggest that there will come a point where God will remove that veil and massive numbers of Jews will see Jesus as he is; their Messiah. I do hope I get to see that!
 

Naomi25

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Have wondered if they had eaten of the tree of Life prior...but my questions is: if they were removed because if they reached out and ate of the tree of Life and would live forever; then wouldn’t they ‘live forever’.
Understand...this is ALL speculation...I have not studied this in depth, and simply put, we're not told enough to really build a solid doctrine on it, I think.
However, my thought would be: man is not inherently immortal...not like God himself, who has no beginning and no end. Our longevity would be dependent entirely on God's grace and whim. So, let's run with the 'tree and fruit' motif for the moment...let's say that eating a single fruit from that tree could give eternal life...sure, I'm sure God could do that...just as I'm sure he could revoke that 'gift'. But I'm equally sure that God could 'gift' eternal life through the means of continually eating of this 'fruit of life'. And when we see in Rev 22 that the 'tree of life' bears its fruit every month, it seems to suggest that.

and if they had eaten and lived forever because of eating of the tree of Life...then eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when tempted; changed what Life had given and provided for them prior into death. If they had eaten of the tree of Life, my question is: then did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil have victory over what Life had given and stole (took away) that Life?

Ah...I don't know. Again, I'm not sure we're given enough information to really get deep into it. I'm really only making some guesses based on the texts we DO have and trying to make some logical conclusions. Could eating of the tree of the KOGAE have fundamentally changed the 'gift of life'? Perhaps, but I don't feel comfortable drawing those conclusions. All we really know is that God did not want them living forever under the sin of what they had done, and he seems to have achieved that by banning them from the tree. The 'you shall surely die' portion of the 'curse' from eating of the forbidden tree, does not, in my estimation, necessarily come from physical death, like restriction from the tree of life does, but rather from a spiritual separation and therefore 'second death' we experience when we are not in the sort of relationship with God that we were meant to.
So, when put together; restriction from the tree of life results in physical death. Restriction from relationship with God results in spiritual death. Redemption through Christ brings us back into relationship with God, so we don't have spiritual death, and then in the New Jerusalem, when we have received our new, sin free bodies, we once again have access to the tree of life and are therefore accorded immortality.
That's how I see it, in a rough 'I'm just winging it' sort of way.

Does Galatians 5:22 heal and restore ‘But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,’? ‘For the healing of the nations’ does the fruit of the Spirit heal? Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

Ah. Maybe? You could perhaps make the argument for that connection, between those 'fruit'. Personally, I'd be more tempted to say that these 'fruit' are speaking of slightly different things. Same imagery, different metaphors. First we have the tree of life/fruit, which we find book-ending the bible; Genesis/Revelation...and they speak of how things should have been and how they will end up...with us, dwelling with God forever in perfection. Which indeed is a 'healing of the nations' if you compare it with us now...even the Church is in need of healing at this point.
The other times in scripture we see 'fruit' motifs it seems to me that the author is using it to speak of that which out-pours from our lives and souls...the 'fruit we bear'. Thus we see 'good trees' bearing 'good fruit' and bad bearing bad. And that allows Paul in Gal 5 to urge us to consider the 'fruit of the Spirit'. This is fruit that is most righteous and worthy of those who call Christ Lord.
And yes, I think probably you could possibly make a case that the more we show and display this 'fruit', the closer we are getting to that final place of 'perfection'...but in all seriousness, it will only be when Christ returns that our own propensity to stumble under the weight of sin will be done away with...again...very much a gift.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed(wasted, destroyed, where moth does not consume) : it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters (springing up unto Life)they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. (Which fades not) but remains...which the great physician gives. 1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth (remains)faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


(Imo) still present: eat of Life or eat of death Jeremiah 21:8-11 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the Lord ; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.
Just a bit uncertain of where you're going here. Seems to me that you're suggesting that we, in a way, still have the choice of life/death?
And, sure, of course we do, in that when we choose to follow or reject Christ we're choosing life/death. But I think the big deal with the 'tree of life' follows the whole 'already/not yet' thing. Yes, we have the spiritual promise/betrothal of things now, but there is coming a very real, physical consummation at a future time. So, those who have chosen Christ now do indeed have the indwelling Spirit, which gives us many amazing realities in Christ. But in the future we shall dwell with him eye to eye, in a place where there is no death, sin or sorrow. Where we shall live forever.
You see the difference? While having the Spirit within us and guiding us and doing many great things fulfills many promises, it does not fulfill them all, and when we look around we cannot, in good faith, say that death is no more. Sin is no more, sorrow is no more.
 

Philip James

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in order that his new covenant may go out to all the world, and in this way his promise to Abraham to 'through him bless all nations' may be fulfilled.

"This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.

Peace!
 
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Davy

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‘that coming supper of The great God’ makes me consider the ‘coming’marriage supper of the Lamb and the Lords supper with the breaking of bread...

Well, it definitely should NOT... remind you of Christ's marriage supper at His return. The idea of a supper at the end of Rev.19 is about the fowls having a supper on the dead. I don't see how anyone could confuse that with Christ's future marriage supper when He returns (per Isaiah 25). Maybe you ought to read more of your Bible to understand it better.
 

Davy

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He said, more or less proving my point.
Sir, I wish you well, but once again, I have no desire to enter into a conversation with someone who starts with the assumption that they are 'right' and the other is not merely 'mistaken', but they are, in fact, 'against Gods word'...in other words, antichrist.
Good day.

If you don't care to discuss the matter further, then why... do you keep posting to me????

And FYI, it is God's Word as written that is right. If that is what I proclaim as written, then it's impossible for it to be wrong. What is wrong is proclaiming ideas that are 'outside' of God's written Word, and are proven wrong by His written Word. That's what I have done, so if you don't like that, then I can't help you. Try to have a nice day.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Looked closely at these. Even wrote them and took notes after reading them in context. Started a post addressing each verse individually but the post became so long. Longer than my normal which is already too much. Mostly, I really do not disagree aware of the tension you speak of. There is a similar angst (imo)between manifest and not yet manifested. See what you spoke of in 2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Well, it definitely should NOT... remind you of Christ's marriage supper at His return. The idea of a supper at the end of Rev.19 is about the fowls having a supper on the dead. I don't see how anyone could confuse that with Christ's future marriage supper when He returns (per Isaiah 25). Maybe you ought to read more of your Bible to understand it better.

not saying it is. Ezekiel 39:17-21 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God ; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. [18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. [19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. [20] Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God. [21] And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

1) Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field,
the question I have is does He call (speak) to the unclean fowls and ‘beast of the field’ to come to the table, to the supper of the great God? (Consider Peters vision)

2) And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

this you will be filled with...and stagger and stumble drunken. How then is this what happens? 1 Corinthians 11:17-21 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. [18] For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. [20] When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. [21] For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

Not just going his way drunken but ‘eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.’ 1 Corinthians 11:27-29 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

For this cause: That each takes his own before another. 1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

3) Luke 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles (or vultures/not sure which) be gathered together.

4)Luke 22:20-22 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. [21] But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. [22] And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
 

VictoryinJesus

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You see the difference? While having the Spirit within us and guiding us and doing many great things fulfills many promises, it does not fulfill them all, and when we look around we cannot, in good faith, say that death is no more. Sin is no more, sorrow is no more.

not disagreeing. Only struggle with “While having the Spirit within us and guiding us and doing many great things fulfills many promises, it does not fulfill them all,...” maybe it is dependent upon perspective? So much importance placed on what we perceive. (Not meaning you, but in my own head where sometimes there has been a change in perspective). So much so, every day it is a matter of perspective. Waking up ‘blah’ and disappointed and depleted but when the perspective changes...the ‘blah’ leaves. Philippians 4:7-8 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. [8] Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Titus 1:11-15 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. [12] One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. [13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

(Imo) speaks of perspective. ‘Unto the pure all things are pure’ unto them that are defiled and unbelieving ‘is nothing pure’. As maybe also are the promises. 2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
 

Davy

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not saying it is. Ezekiel 39:17-21 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God ; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. [18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. [19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. [20] Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God. [21] And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

1) Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field,
the question I have is does He call (speak) to the unclean fowls and ‘beast of the field’ to come to the table, to the supper of the great God? (Consider Peters vision)

2) And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

this you will be filled with...and stagger and stumble drunken. How then is this what happens?

You simply are not staying with the Scripture. Apparently what you read does not register in your mind for some reason. God's sacrifice on that final day of this world, when He will destroy the northern army that comes out of the northern quarters per Ezekiel 38 and 39, is about the "sudden destruction" that will occur on the last day of this world. In Ezek.39, He is revealing by that destruction upon the wicked how ALL peoples will understand that HE is GOD, and there is no other god. He is showing that He will reveal HIS GLORY and VICTORY over Satan and his army to the wicked on that day. And that is what the Revelation 19 Scripture with Jesus' coming with His army to do battle is about.
 

VictoryinJesus

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God's sacrifice on that final day of this world, when He will destroy the northern army that comes out of the northern quarters per Ezekiel 38 and 39, is about the "sudden destruction" that will occur on the last day of this world

“God's sacrifice on that final day of this world, when He will destroy the northern army that comes out of the northern quarters per Ezekiel 38 and 39, is about the "sudden destruction" that will occur on the last day of this world”
John 7:36-37 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me : and where I am, thither ye cannot come? [37] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
 

VictoryinJesus

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God's sacrifice on that final day of this world, when He will destroy the northern army that comes out of the northern quarters per Ezekiel 38 and 39, is about the "sudden destruction" that will occur on the last day of this world. In Ezek.39, He is revealing by that destruction upon the wicked how ALL peoples will understand that HE is GOD, and there is no other god. He is showing that He will reveal HIS GLORY and VICTORY over Satan and his army to the wicked on that day. And that is what the Revelation 19 Scripture with Jesus' coming with His army to do battle is about.

We see it things different and not saying one is right or wrong...only we will see. (Imo) His weapons are not carnal but mighty...as
2 Corinthians 10:3-4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
And right before ‘the war’ and field and beast consuming is Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Which (could be wrong) but maybe doesn’t look like our image of war.

Added: do have a question for you. Why does God want fowls and beast to be drunk off blood and flesh? “Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. [18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. [19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.”
 
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Davy

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We see it things different and not saying one is right or wrong...only we will see. (Imo) His weapons are not carnal but mighty...as
2 Corinthians 10:3-4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
And right before ‘the war’ and field and beast consuming is Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Which (could be wrong) but maybe doesn’t look like our image of war.

It will be a war, you can count on it, but the way He is going to fight it is not how those armies out of the northern quarters are expecting. He is not going to fight it with conventional weapons of man. He did mention hailstones the size of about 70-120 lbs. falling on them. That would take care of destruction of any modern army. Couple with that God's consuming fire and trembling of all mountains and islands out of their places, and nothing made by man will survive it. And what da ya know, that's exactly what Apostles Paul and Peter pointed to for the "day of the Lord" at the end of Hebrews 12 and 2 Peter 3:10-11. So trying to compare the Power of God with the ways of man is really a waste of time, and won't give an accurate picture that aligns with His Word. Yet He still uses the forces of His creation to execute that Power, so trying to spiritualize that away is a poor comparison to His Word too.


Added: do have a question for you. Why does God want fowls and beast to be drunk off blood and flesh? “Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. [18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. [19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.”

That's just an expression. But the fowls will literally feast, because as written those in Israel will be burying the dead bones of that great northern army in their lands for 7 years after God destroys them.

So if you try to spiritualize that battle on the "day of the Lord" away, it says you don't really believe what's written in The Old Testament scripture when God's Hand came down upon His enemies and literally destroyed them, like Sodom and Gomorrah, etc., and even the flood of Noah's day.

So you really ought to think harder about following the doctrines of men who try to spiritualize away the literal events written in God's Word.
 

Taken

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We all know that John Darby came up with the pre-tribulation rapture.

Actually had never heard that until rather recently.
My Spiritual journey was pretty void of researching historical preachers.

However UPON hearing his name repeatedly are his supposed accreditation s and negative comments, I did some research on him.

Quite impressive and bold IMO to go along with the status quo, then commit to really dig deeper for the basis of the status quo, and verifying the status quo Against Scripture and puzzled at the differences.

Personally I give greater creditability to a constant delver, rather than one who has no clue why he believes what he believes, except, to say it was always told to him to believe this or that.

And aside From Darby's higher education in Theology and Establishment of groups and Titles for his beliefs...he and I have very similar views...and from the same Source...Scripture.

Having not heard of him, and the sometimes outlandish criticism of him...curiosity leant me ear to research him, and actually was quite impressed, that he could set his status quo aside and read Scripture for what it is...as Jesus directed, but so many can not do.

QUOTE] But did you know that Darby also

Invented electricity,
Wrote the consitution,
Came up with the theory of relativity,
The law of gravity
And the recipe for maple syrup.

In fact, if we look further back in history you will see that John Darby probably discovered fire and invented the wheel too.[/QUOTE]

I hope the younger generations Publicly educated with Socialist Materials do not read that...since they think the truth IS the internet.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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...as written those in Israel will be burying the dead bones of that great northern army in their lands for 7 years after God destroys them.

Then there is Actually as it is Written...

Ezek 39:
[12] And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
 

VictoryinJesus

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That's just an expression. But the fowls will literally feast, because as written those in Israel will be burying the dead bones of that great northern army in their lands for 7 years after God destroys them.

seems like an important passage as connected to ‘burying the dead bones’ And the ‘Thus ye shall be filled at my table’

...you say ‘just a figure is speech.’ Which parts...the table? The fowls of heaven and beast of the field? Or The sacrifice ‘which I have sacrificed for you’ which part is a figure of speech?

‘And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.’ Who is the ‘which I have sacrifice for you’ Because unless I’m reading it wrong it is said to the fowls of heaven and the beast of the field. Let’s read it again: Ezekiel 39:15-20 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog. [16] And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land. [17] And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God ; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. [18] Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. [19] And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. [20] Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God.

you say ‘just a figure is speech.’ Do you mean like Mark 4:30-32 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? [31] It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: [32] But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

Or what about the fishes in the nets? Yet, in the figure of speech real birds and beast are coming at this day of battle to consume meat at His table. When right before the call in Revelation 19:15-17 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. [17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;


Daniel 2:37-38 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. [38] And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

does God mean the vultures out in the street (roads) cleaning up the dead are hateful birds?
Consider ‘the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.’ With Who calls in the Revelation of Jesus Christ ‘come gather’ to the beast of the field and fowls of heaven that He be over all things.

Isaiah 56:8-12 The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, (important imo)Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. [9] All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest. [10] His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. [11] Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, (Philippians 2:21)from his quarter. [12] Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

you say figure of speech, again do you say All kinds of fishes are gathered in the net? Or do you say men? Can wolves be beast come in from the field(world) Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

see, here you are comfortable with it not being actual wolves devouring the flock. Yet seem uncomfortable with fowls and beast being called to the table to eat what is sacrificed for them ...actual birds consuming flesh and drinking blood until they be made drunken. Oddly, your thread about “watch, Jesus said” why not include Watch, AND be sober? To not be drunken as those who sleep in the night...all the many times ‘be Sober’ with the “watch” ...how is any made drunken? Are you suggesting actual drunkenness in the night?

2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Point is...I do not get or understand these ‘cues’ of when it is an actual lion the Lord pulled Paul from the mouth of, or when it is actual wolves devouring and coming in to not spare the flock, or actual beast of the field and fowls called to the table made drunk of blood and flesh?
 
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