JUDAS : Final Answer

[Robert Gwin]

-
Ive noticed that Christians always have some ideas/questions... about Judas, regarding him being "saved or not'.

So, lets look at that question.

Read carefully....

1.) Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people made their plans how to have Jesus executed. 2 So they bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate the governor.

2.) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”
“What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

3.) So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


Notice that Jesus died on the Cross = AFTER Judas had killed himself.
So, Judas died before Jesus went to the Cross for the sin of the world.

Now, let me show you more..

The NT teaches that : "if you have NOT the spirit of GOD, you are none of His"..

So, there goes water baptism, and commandment keeping, and enduing to the end.
See that?
Legalism just went to HELL. So dont be one of those.
= This means that you have to be BORN AGAIN, to have the SPIRIT of GOD.....as this...>"you are become a Temple of the Holy Spirit".... or as Jesus tells you...."you must be born again"... and that is by the Spirit of God, and not by the city water supply as the water Cults teach.

Now, If Judas has the Holy Spirit in Him, before He Hung Himself, then He went to heaven, and you get to meet him, if you are born again.

Did He?

Look here..... John 20:20-22, says that Jesus, after He was raised from the DEAD.... said to the disciples...."receive YOU the Holy Spirit", And Jesus "Breathed on them".
Reader.....The "Breathing" is symbolic... Its relating Jesus as the pre-incarnate WORD (John 1:1) to God the Father breathing the SPIRIT into ADAM....in Genesis = and Adam became a Living SOUL.
See that?
That is Jesus, who is GOD......doing to the Apostles, what God did to Adam.
Now here is the answer..
Where is Judas?
Where is JUDAS, when Jesus is doing this to the Apostles in John 20:22
He is dead....so, he did not receive the Spirit from Christ, and he was also not at Pentecost when the Comforter came.

Judas went to hell, just like everyone who dies religious, water baptized, but not born again.
Yes, Judas was water baptized but he was not born again.

Jesus said this about Judas: (Matthew 26:24) . . .woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
Based upon that, it is rather clear that there would be no salvation for Judas.

 

[Behold]

Jesus said this about Judas: (Matthew 26:24) . . .woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
Based upon that, it is rather clear that there would be no salvation for Judas.

Judas betrayed Christ The Lord.....but, Caiaphas also knew the truth, and his envy caused his deed.

Psalm 27:4 says.."""Wrath is cruel, and anger is outrageous; but who is able to stand before envy""""?


Christ, from the Cross, asked God for their forgiveness, and of course God answered this prayer..
However, Judas was already dead.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

I dont make claims, and i certainly dont make "false" claims.

So, ive stated that you are of a water cult, and you are obsessed with water baptism.
That's not a false claim, that is in fact what you have proven.

See , You have this false idea that "christian baptism" is Salvation.
It is not.
Yet, all water cults teach that it is........and that is not a claim, that is a Fact.

It is a fact that 2 water cults.....the "Catholics", and the "jehovah's witnessess", teach that water is required for salvation.
This is a false gospel. Galatians 1:8
It is your gospel.......and that is not a "false claim".....it is a fact, that you will continue to chant and rant.
You'll do it again.

Nobody claimed that getting baptized inherently results in someone being saved. However, the Bible DOES show water baptism being an obligation for true conversion. The Jesus you claim to believe instructed the disciples to baptize future followers in water(Matt. 28:19).

People who throw the term "cult" and "legalist" around to shame someone into submission only prove that they can't prove their own doctrines are true. If you're confident that your beliefs are supported by the Bible, then you shouldn't have any problems pointing people to the book, chapter, and verse. Resorting to this kind of slander is a sure sign that your position has no biblical basis.

 

[Behold]

However, the Bible DOES show water baptism being an obligation for true conversion. .

Let me show you this, and perhaps you can see it..

Now, go back in time 2000 yrs..
Take Jesus off the Cross, and put Him back in Heaven....>He is now, NOT come to the earth yet.
He is NOT Virgin born yet.......He is the WORD Pre-incarnate.
Understand. ????

Do you understand?

Now, you go to your favorite Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, church...or your Jehovah's Witness Temple... and get yourself water baptized 22 times in a row, .......
Now are you born again?
Are you saved?
Are you going to heaven because someone held you under the water 22 times?

So......Do you see that WATER has NOTHING To do with you going to heaven?
Can you SEE IT ???

If you can see it, then stop trying to prove that the CROSS + the WATER, = your salvation.
If you can't see it, then thats on you, Desireofall nations.
You figure it out, if you can.
Not that many water cult members can figure it out.
Maybe you will be able to overcome the deception.

Here is a bit more help.
Paul said..>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, you have to be born as a human to later be born again spiritually as Son of God.

This is why Jesus tells us that we must be born AGAIN..

"Again" as in.....you are born, so that the natural birth, from your mother...= her water breaks.....= born of water.....and out you come.

NOW, now that you are born once, .... you must be born AGAIN, as this is by the Holy Spirit, that creates your spirit as born again, "one with God"..

This is how you become a "new creation", in Christ.

The WATER CULTS, try to deny that your first first birth is "born of water" and they create this crazy theological idea that it all about water baptism.
This is why they are a "water CULT".

= Catholics
= Jehovah's witness

others....but they are the worst offenders of truth, regarding NOW to become SPIRITUALLY born again....as for these water cults its all about water baptism.

I like that term water cults! Even most Baptist flavors do not believe water baptism saves. I know for I are one!

 

[Behold]

I like that term water cults! Even most Baptist flavors do not believe water baptism saves. I know for I are one!

The only way that water baptism can save you, is if water baptism hung on the cross, died, and was resurrected.

Should you be water baptized after you are born again?
Absolutely.
You should also take communion.

 

[Mungo]

The only way that water baptism can save you, is if water baptism hung on the cross, died, and was resurrected.

Of course water baptism itself doesn't save us.
That's just a straw man claim.
But it's IN baptism that God saves us.

That is why Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

stop trying to prove that the CROSS + the WATER, = your salvation.
.

No-one is claiming the CROSS + the WATER, = your salvation.
That is just another straw man claim.

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

It is a fact that 2 water cults.....the "Catholics", and the "jehovah's witnessess", teach that water is required for salvation.

It is not a fact because it's not true.

That is just another straw man claim.

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

Your Cult is lying...as all water cults try to deny the Cross and replace it with the city water supply.

No-one is denying the Cross.
That is just another straw man claim.

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

No, Jesus is not lying.
The Water cults, yours.... do not makes this distinction, and teach the lie that water causes a spiritual birth.
That lie, is Catholic and Jehovah's witness, who both teach, the lie that "water causes spiritual birth".
.

Untrue. The Catholic Church doesn't teach that water causes a spiritual birth
That is just another straw man claim.

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

There are 2 water cults that preach the lie, the LIE< water causes a spiritual birth

False. The Catholic Church does not teach water causes a spiritual birth.
That is just another straw man claim.

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Mungo]

You're lying.
And you're a Catholic., and you'll do it again.
Your "water cult"" teaches BAPTISMAL REGENERATION.....

Yes, we are regenerated IN baptism BY the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit)
As scripture says in Titus 3:5: Jesus
saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (KJV)
saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost (Douay-Rheims)
saved us..... by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (RSV)

Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

You are born again by the HOLY SPIRIT......... not water.

Yes I agree. That is what I keep, telling you.
But the Holy Spirit acts in Baptism
As Jesus said
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" John 3:5
As Jesus also said: "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
As Peter wrote "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you"

You need to start believing scripture and being obedient to Jesus.

 

[Behold]

----

 

[Behold]

saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

The "washing of regeneration" is not water. Its the Holy Spirit.

"washing and renewing' of the SPIRIT.
This is why the verse does not say water, but says "Holy Ghost".

"regeneration" : is spiritual, and can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit.
Your water cult teaches that spiritual regeneration, is water.
Thats a lie that offends the Holy Spirit and the Cross of Christ.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Judas betrayed Christ The Lord.....but, Caiaphas also knew the truth, and his envy caused his deed.

Psalm 27:4 says.."""Wrath is cruel, and anger is outrageous; but who is able to stand before envy""""?


Christ, from the Cross, asked God for their forgiveness, and of course God answered this prayer..
However, Judas was already dead.

Jesus prayed for those who were ignorant sir, for those who knew not what they were doing

 

[Mungo]

The "washing of regeneration" is not water. Its the Holy Spirit.

"washing and renewing' of the SPIRIT.
This is why the verse does not say water, but says "Holy Ghost".

he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (KJV)
he saved us..... by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (RSV)
Washing refers to water.
But you are missing the point
Take to NAB, in this it is more literal.
"he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit,"
The Greek word translated bath here and washing in other translations is loutrou (Strong 3067) which is a noun

Strong 3067
Definition: a washing, a bath
Usage: a bath (of water, not the vessel), water for washing, washing.

There is one other place where loutrou is used, in Eph 5:25-26
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word (RSV).
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word (KJV).

The imagery in Eph 5:24-27 is that the Church as the bride of Christ.
In ancient Greece a bride traditionally took a ritual bath on the morning of her wedding.
"The bride’s ritual bath took place on the morning of the wedding ceremony
itself. The bathing ritual was a pivotal coming-of-age rite for the young bride. Indeed,
if a girl died before being married, she would undergo this ritual of bathing after her
death. The loutrophoros was used in this ritual ceremony to carry water."
From The Nuptial Ceremony of Ancient Greece and the Articulation of Male Control Through Ritual by Casey Mason, Macalester College.

The gamos was the wedding day, where a series of ceremonies surrounded the transfer of the bride from her father's home to that of her new husband. The day's rituals began with a nuptial bath which was given to the bride. This bath symbolized purification as well as fertility (Wikipedia).
The imagery of Eph 5:25-27 is therefore that of a bridal bath. This is confirmed if we look at the Greek text.
The Greek Interlinear gives the following literal translation of 'washing of water with word'
loutro (G3067) tou (G3588) hudatos (G5204) en (G1722) remati (G4487)
is "bath of-the water in declaration"
Note that loutro, hudatos and remati are all nouns in the Greek.

The words, the declaration, refer to the standard formula of baptising "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" as per Jesus' instructions in Mt 28:19

Ephesus was a Greek city in Asian minor, now part of modern Turkey. The Ephesians would have understood Paul's reference to loutro tou hudatos "bath of-the water" as the bridal ritual bath in water. This is clearly H2O.

"regeneration" : is spiritual, and can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, regeneration is spiritual and is accomplished by the Holy Spirit. I keep agreeing with you there. But the regeneration, the renewal, by the Holy Spirit occurs during baptism.

Your water cult teaches that spiritual regeneration, is water.
Thats a lie that offends the Holy Spirit and the Cross of Christ.

No, your claim is the lie because the Catholic Church does not teach that.
That is just another straw man claim.

 

[mailmandan]

The "washing of regeneration" is not water. Its the Holy Spirit.

"washing and renewing' of the SPIRIT.
This is why the verse does not say water, but says "Holy Ghost".

"regeneration" : is spiritual, and can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit.
Your water cult teaches that spiritual regeneration, is water.
Thats a lie that offends the Holy Spirit and the Cross of Christ.

The washing of regeneration is certainly not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration." Washing refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

 

[Behold]

he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (KJV)
he saved us..... by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (RSV)
Washing refers to water.

Only in your mind.

Listen, Jesus said..>"now you are CLEAN through the WORD i have spoken to you".

See that?... You would think this is water......A.) Water cults obsess on water.

Listen,
The spirit that is born again, is inside you.
Water only touches the body.
Try to realize that when the Comforter came, during Acts 2, at Pentecost... no one in the upper room was water baptized, nor was Peter.
Yet, all were filled with the spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

Only in your mind.

Listen, Jesus said..>"now you are CLEAN through the WORD i have spoken to you".

See that?... You would think this is water......A.) Water cults obsess on water.

Listen,
The spirit that is born again, is inside you.
Water only touches the body.
Try to realize that when the Comforter came, during Acts 2, at Pentecost... no one in the upper room was water baptized, nor was Peter.
Yet, all were filled with the spirit.

We read in scripture where "water" is used as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)