Judge not? 2 kinds of Sin

[Randy Kluth]

Recently I raised a matter that really deserves its own thread, so that it doesn't get confused with other issues. It is the matter of differentiating between classes of Sin.

Over the course of my lifetime I've heard things like, "All sins are the same." Well, I don't find that to be true. It is true that all sins would keep us out of heaven were it not for the grace of God. However, the sin of murder is greater than the sin of name-calling. It may be argued that name-calling could lead to murder. But they are not the same, obviously.

So what is my point here? The OT Law spoke of intentional and non-intentional sins. I don't think Moses was saying that non-intentional sins were entirely innocent, but that they were matters of indiscretion--acts done consciously and aware, but not done in blatant rebellion against God's word. There was some rationalization involved that mitigated the offense.

On the other hand, "intentional sins" were, I think, in the category of overt rebellion against God's law. They were not only the product of conscious, deliberate decision-making, but they were an expression of hostility against God's authority to control human behavior.

So there are things we all do, as Christians, that indicate we have a sin nature. We are predisposed towards carnality, but are able to overcome it by leaning on the Spirit of God. We indulge, at times, many incidences of carnal behavior, even as we attempt to check these behaviors by resorting to God's Spirit.

But these "smaller sins" are merely "specks in the eye" in our brothers, which Jesus said we should avoid trying to pick out. Nit-picking, in other words, is not something a Christian should engage in, if he or she is to participate in Christian edification, and correction in love.

The accountability we owe to one another does not concern "nit-picking," but rather, matters of gross sin and rebellion against God, which if these things are not repented of can lead to terrible consequence. If we love our brothers and sisters, we need to try to persuade them to avoid gross sins, which can lead to terrible punishment, and even death.

Matt 7. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

1 Cor 5.9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

 

[GISMYS_7]

Sin is sin big or little===

​

James 2:10​

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sin is sin big or little===

​

James 2:10​

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Yes, I agree with that, obviously. What I said is that the smallest sin can keep us out of heaven. In that sense, all sins are equal.

And yet, in another sense, not all sins are equal. Do you agree with that? I think we were having an issue with that the other day, perhaps not understanding one another, and it got blown out of proportion.

This is one reason I'm posting this, to clarify. But my wife could tell you this is a matter I've been dealing with personally for a long time. Families that have members who anoint themselves "chief nitpicker" make life miserable for all.

I don't think James is saying that committing the smallest sin one becomes guilty of committing all sins, from the smallest to the greatest. Nor do I think he is saying that there are no degrees in sin--obviously there are.

So what was James saying? He was saying that the Law was a code that determined Israel's relationship with God. Being found guilty under that code required that *all* obtain the same atonement for sin. That is, all required the same redemption from sin, since all sin of any kind separated one from God. The one who sins in any way is guilty *in the same way* as all who sin are guilty.

From Bible Study Tools Commentaries:
he is guilty of all:
this seems to agree with some common sayings of the Jews, that he that is suspected in one thing, is suspected in the whole law F25; and he that keeps this or the other command, keeps the whole law; and he that breaks this, or the other command, breaks the whole law; as whether it respects the sabbath, or adultery, or that command. Thou shall not covet, or any other F26: and this must be understood, not of every particular command in the law, as if he that is guilty of murder is in that instance also guilty of adultery; or he that is guilty of adultery is in that instance guilty of murder; but the sense is, that he is guilty of the breach of the whole law, though not of the whole of the law; as he that breaks anyone condition of a covenant, which may consist of many, though he does not violate every condition, yet breaks the whole covenant; so he that transgresses in anyone point of the law, breaks the whole, commits sin, and is deserving of death, and is treated by the law as a transgressor of it, let it be in what instance it will. But it does not follow from hence, that all sins are equal, as the Stoics say F1, for there are greater and lesser sins, ( John 19:11 ) though not some venial, and others mortal, for the wages of every sin is death; nor that the punishment of sin will be alike, as all sins were punishable alike by Draco's laws, but not by the law of God, ( Matthew 11:22 Matthew 11:24 ) but this may be fairly concluded from hence, that there can be no justification in the sight of God, by an imperfect obedience to, the law, or by a partial righteousness: the law requires perfect obedience, and in failure of that, though but in one point, curses and condemns; and likewise it may be inferred from hence, that a man is not at liberty to obey and neglect what commandments of the law he pleases, but should have respect to them all; which seems greatly the design of the apostle, as appears by what follows.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Randy,
Nice post. Just over the last 2-3 months, thinking about "different sins", I agree there are degrees. Sexual sin seems to be in a class of its's own; as it involves your own body. As Paul said:

1 Corinthians 6:18-19

"Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?"

Then, my thoughts go to the "many stripes/few stripes" verses and wonder if they are connected.
Thoughts?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hi Randy,
Nice post. Just over the last 2-3 months, thinking about "different sins", I agree there are degrees. Sexual sin seems to be in a class of its's own; as it involves your own body. As Paul said:

1 Corinthians 6:18-19

"Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?"

Then, my thoughts go to the "many stripes/few stripes" verses and wonder if they are connected.
Thoughts?

Yes, I've had to review this subject over the years because the teaching I received was so "thin." It was more of a doctrine-based teaching than an experience-based teaching. But the more experience I had, the more nuanced it became.

At the heart of it all was a very weak teaching on Grace that I grew up with in the Lutheran Church. In my adolescence I went astray for a time, but continued regularly in church. I repented and took communion without immediately changing my way of life, but knew in my heart that forgiveness requires a complete change of behavior, and not just "words."

So gradually, I began to challenge the teaching that says nothing we *do* has any effect on grace because the only thing that counts is what we do *in Christ.* What we do apart from Christ is covered by Christ. Whether we do a little bad or a lot bad, all is equally covered by Christ's grace.

On the surface this may sound true, but in reality, what we choose to do apart from Christ may be forgiven, but there are consequences! The worse the sin, the worse the consequences. "What you sow, you shall reap."

I've paid a large price for the rebellion I engaged in in my youth, though I feel completely forgiven by the grace of Christ. However, I would warn any and all that there are worse and less worse consequences--don't make the big mistakes! Don't commit the big sins!

Many smaller sins of carnality are forgiven within a single hour or a single day. We're rude to someone. It takes a while to get over the pride. But ultimately, there is reconciliation with God and possibly with the one's we've offended.

Other sins can bring on a sense of guilt for years! I would spare others that kind of guilt. Forgiveness is there legally, but we don't immediately sense and benefit from this forgiveness. Our consciences have been damaged.

If we do, rest assured there can be forgiveness. All that God has ever wanted from us is our heart--our love for Him, our fellowship with Him. But He will not compromise His holiness. We have to enter into His presence properly. It may take time to be purged of our rebellion or uncleanness, but we will eventually be able to meet with the King again in His glorious presence.

Thanks for all your support Nancy. You have mine, as well. I never ask for agreement on everything. But we should be able to discern between those who have love and those who are in this out of pride? We can tell, by the gift of discernment, what is being done for ulterior purposes, and what is being done for the Lord alone.

 

[Nancy]

Oh gosh Randy, you have hit many "close to home" issues with this post! I had to shed a tear or two even .

"Other sins can bring on a sense of guilt for years! I would spare others that kind of guilt. Forgiveness is there legally, but we don't immediately sense and benefit from this forgiveness. Our consciences have been damaged."

As long as our consciences do not become seared "as with a hot iron"! Yikes! Guilt over very long ago sins, have come back to bite me lately as I am in the midst of spiritual warfare in my own life.

Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom, they are very uplifting to me, and others I hope. Now, I am encouraged to put on my audio KJV bible right now. Thank you brother, for your kindness, understanding and your Love for The Lord, we need more like you on here

In His love,
Nancy

 

[Randy Kluth]

Oh gosh Randy, you have hit many "close to home" issues with this post! I had to shed a tear or two even .

"Other sins can bring on a sense of guilt for years! I would spare others that kind of guilt. Forgiveness is there legally, but we don't immediately sense and benefit from this forgiveness. Our consciences have been damaged."

As long as our consciences do not become seared "as with a hot iron"! Yikes! Guilt over very long ago sins, have come back to bite me lately as I am in the midst of spiritual warfare in my own life.

Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom, they are very uplifting to me, and others I hope. Now, I am encouraged to put on my audio KJV bible right now. Thank you brother, for your kindness, understanding and your Love for The Lord, we need more like you on here

In His love,
Nancy

You have the quality that I believe God is stirred by, so that He sets His affection upon such a person. You're kind, and you have love. And you're humble, confessing your past sins (to God). Thank you. It's beautiful.

 

[Nancy]

You have the quality that I believe God is stirred by, so that He sets His affection upon such a person. You're kind, and you have love. And you're humble, confessing your past sins (to God). Thank you. It's beautiful.

Thank you brother, you are surely prayed for!
P.S.- TY also for the kind words! I do strive for these things, amen.

 

[Pearl]

The word “sin” is an archery term in the ancient Greek. It means, “you missed”. It’s what a slave boy might have said to his master during target practise. “Sin” means we have missed the mark when it comes to making right moral choices in life.

So really if you missed you missed. Near misses and wide of the mark misses are all misses. And God has no grades of sin; sin is sin.

Or take an example of an exam; if you're marked below the benchmark you have failed whether it's by one point or thirty.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The word “sin” is an archery term in the ancient Greek. It means, “you missed”. It’s what a slave boy might have said to his master during target practise. “Sin” means we have missed the mark when it comes to making right moral choices in life.

So really if you missed you missed. Near misses and wide of the mark misses are all misses. And God has no grades of sin; sin is sin.

Or take an example of an exam; if you're marked below the benchmark you have failed whether it's by one point or thirty.

That point has already been made. Sin is "missing the mark," whether the shot nearly hits the bull's eye, or misses the target by a mile. But that doesn't mean there aren't degrees of sin. It is one thing for me to treat you rudely, which is a form of sin. But it is an entirely different thing for me to murder you or a relative of yours, steal your possessions, and burn your house to the ground.

Do you see what I mean? All sins are not equal in that sense, though they all equally keep us out of Heaven, if it was not for Christ's death on the cross.

In the Law the Hebrews were required to "fix" the wrongs they did, if possible. If they stole something, the thing stolen was to be returned with interest.

The consequences of God's judgment were different depending on the sin. If Israel violated God's Law in less rebellious, "unintentional" ways, they could be restored to good graces under the Law by carrying out specified remedies under the Law, which restored the people to national blessings.

But if Israel deliberately violated God's Law, rejecting it entirely for pagan standards of conduct, God promised He would break the covenant entirely, curse the people, and throw them out of the land for a time. I trust you understand?

 

[Pearl]

I'm sorry for repeating what had already been said. But In God eyes you are either a sinner or you aren't.

When He looks at us He either sees us though the covering blood of the Lamb - sinless - or as still living in sin. And although we may have been in a deep dark place before we came to Jesus all that sinful nature is left at the foot of the cross as we are spiritually re-born. We either hit the mark by accepting Jesus and being reconciled with God or we miss it and are still his enemies.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm sorry for repeating what had already been said. But In God eyes you are either a sinner or you aren't.

When He looks at us He either sees us though the covering blood of the Lamb - sinless - or as still living in sin. And although we may have been in a deep dark place before we came to Jesus all that sinful nature is left at the foot of the cross as we are spiritually re-born. We either hit the mark by accepting Jesus and being reconciled with God or we miss it and are still his enemies.

I agree--you're either going to be "in Heaven" or not. But are you also saying that God will not judge the world, giving punishments and rewards based on the measure of the deeds?

 

[Pearl]

I agree--you're either going to be "in Heaven" or not. But are you also saying that God will not judge the world, giving punishments and rewards based on the measure of the deeds?

To be absolutely honest with you, I'm not saying that because I don't know enough about it.

 

[Always]

I don't believe in levels of sin, we have all fallen short of the Glory of God, and we are saved by Grace, however the Word states we sin daily and any man that states differently from that is a liar. Transgression made by one under grace are not seen of God, because of the blood of Jesus, however the Holy Spirit will convict one and bring that sin to remembrance so that individual can repent.

 

[marks]

Well, I don't find that to be true. It is true that all sins would keep us out of heaven were it not for the grace of God. However, the sin of murder is greater than the sin of name-calling. It may be argued that name-calling could lead to murder. But they are not the same, obviously.

Personally I think sin is sin is sin, but some sins have a greater affect on ourselves or others.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

I don't believe in levels of sin, we have all fallen short of the Glory of God, and we are saved by Grace, however the Word states we sin daily and any man that states differently from that is a liar. Transgression made by one under grace are not seen of God, because of the blood of Jesus, however the Holy Spirit will convict one and bring that sin to remembrance so that individual can repent.

Well said. And that's why we need our 'feet washed' regularly to wash away the grime of this world we live in but are not part of. As Jesus told Peter if you've had a bath - washed in the blood - you only to wash your feet.

John 13:8-10
“No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
“Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!” Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. "

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Personally I think sin is sin is sin, but some sins have a greater affect on ourselves or others.

Much love!

True, sins against God and
murder are on the same list as dishonoring parents, commiting adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, and coveting. But it seems there might be an order of severity in the Ten Commandments, #1 being the worst and then lesser as they go?
Obviously Christians may lie or covet numerous times without causing that much damage; but a serial killer is much more severe.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

And I would add that when it comes to judging the unsaved, the judgment is likely proportional to the severity of the sin. Hitler being responsible for 20 million deaths would likely receive a more painful punishment than someone who murdered one person. ??? I don't know, maybe they all get equal judgment: thrown into the fire. Maybe a lot of this judgment takes place in Hades, when you a totally aware and conscious of all that you did, all the pain you caused to each and every person ... then later you are thrown into the fire. Don't mean to sound cold, but just spit balling here.
We get rewards in heaven in accordance to our cooperation/ deeds/ service - that's proportional. One of the mysteries we just can't figure.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Personally I think sin is sin is sin, but some sins have a greater affect on ourselves or others.

Much love!

I think I get where your sentiment is here, because you're not really addressing the distinctions being referred to. "Sin is sin" means that they equally can keep people out of Heaven, whether big sin or little sin. And all sin can be forgiven, letting us into Heaven, whether we commit big sins or little sins. Is that your sense?

I think getting into Heaven or being prevented from getting into Heaven is the biggest issue, and so we might want to focus on all sins having an equal value in that respect. But since God goes into great detail, in the Prophets, citing sin after sin, and even pointing out the degree of their intensity, surely the degree of sin is important to God?

Surely God cares whether someone limits his insults to cheap quips or takes a sledge hammer and smashes somebody's personal belongings? And I would think that putting a few dollars in the offering plate may have less value to God than praying day and night for someone's soul?

What do you think?

 

[marks]

I think I get where your sentiment is here, because you're not really addressing the distinctions being referred to. "Sin is sin" means that they equally can keep people out of Heaven, whether big sin or little sin. And all sin can be forgiven, letting us into Heaven, whether we commit big sins or little sins. Is that your sense?

Actually my thinking is more on the lines of either flesh or spirit. All that is not of faith is sin, so I divide all activity into 2 camps, that which is of faith, and that which is not.

Sin comes from the flesh, not sin comes from the Spirit.

Surely God cares whether someone limits his insults to cheap quips or takes a sledge hammer and smashes somebody's personal belongings? And I would think that putting a few dollars in the offering plate may have less value to God than praying day and night for someone's soul?

fewer stripes and many stripes. And the poor widow put in the most of all, being by percentage. I believe we will be rewarded various depending on what we did, and how hard we tried. But hopefully you will see what I'm thinking.

Much love!