Just for....those who, well, not just for some, but for all who would love God.

[Waiting on him]

I believe we have already begun.

Im saying that since Titus appointed their elders, the Cretens had a duty to submit to them.



Ill be glad to answer that question, when we have agreed that the bishops and presbyters have been given authority...



When have I said that?

Rather, I agreed with you when you said:
'not all are in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God'

Peace!

Philip how can you not see that the order you guys have now in place is no different that the Pharisees and what they had in place?
In my opinion it’s identical, it’s what Christ came to destroy(religious practices).

 

[Waiting on him]

Some dead giveaways

Very tall hats that suggest ascension, why aren’t these hats handed out to all?

Long robes (white) why are not we all in robes and fancy hats?

First to the table, and the only ones allowed the blood?

 

[ScottA]

I am pointing out that Jude warns us of the rebellion of Korah, therefore there must be a parallel of what Korah did to what some Christians did.

So lets look at what Korah said:
Num 16:3

and held an assembly against Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD'S congregation?"

You can see here that he makes the mistake of assuming that Moses and Aaron set themselves over the assembly and rejects their aurhority.

The parallel in the Church would be those who reject the authority of the overseers and presbyters who received their authority from Christ through the apostles.

So today if I were to say, 'who are Richard and John' that they set themselves over the congregation, i would be doing just as Korah...

As for 'taking up' authority, no one can make themselves an elder in the Church, it must be done by those with the authority to give it.

Titus 1:5

For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you,

Can you imagine some Creten objecting to Titus' authority, and saying 'who are you and Paul that you set yourselves over the assembly' ?

Philip, you have it backwards.

The error of Korah was not for questioning the authority of Moses and Aaron, but of expecting that they also should have authority that was not given to them: the authority of priests rather than that of servants.

There is no problem with the Catholics or other religious men of being servants, but rather of men expecting they should have authority of the royal priesthood being appointed by men, rather than by birthright.

 

[Philip James]

The error of Korah was not for questioning the authority of Moses and Aaron,

?? Korah clearly holds an assembly against Moses and Aaron questiong their authority, to read that verse otherwise does violence to the text.

but of expecting that they also should have authority that was not given to them: the authority of priests rather than that of servants.

Exodus 19:6

You shall be to me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation. That is what you must tell the Israelites

So you see Korah is not wrong in saying 'the whole community is holy' but rather in rejecting the authority that God gave to Moses and Aaron...

Peace!

 

[Philip James]

Philip how can you not see that the order you guys have now in place is no different that the Pharisees and what they had in place?
In my opinion it’s identical, it’s what Christ came to destroy(religious practices).

Did Jesus come to destroy religious practices or to perfect them?

As for the pharisees, of course there are similarities. They had legitimate authority as Jesus pointed out when He told His disciples ' do all they tell you for they sit in Moses' seat'.
But He also told the pharisees that care for 'the vineyard' would be taken from them and given to others. Who are 'these others' if not the apostles and the bishops and presbyters ordained by them?

Peace!

 

[Nancy]

Calvinism does deter many a person from receiving Christ into their heart as Lord and Saviour; and is also conducive to those who do receive Him thinking that they may not have salvation after all (because if God didn't choose them, it doesn't matter that they chose Him).

Therefore I consider that Calvinism is to a very great degree a demonic doctrine (see 1 Timothy 4:1-2).

I do believe that there are those who believe in it who are redeemed.

Even the elect can be deceived for a season.

Spot on brother!

 

[ScottA]

?? Korah clearly holds an assembly against Moses and Aaron questiong their authority, to read that verse otherwise does violence to the text.



Exodus 19:6

You shall be to me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation. That is what you must tell the Israelites

So you see Korah is not wrong in saying 'the whole community is holy' but rather in rejecting the authority that God gave to Moses and Aaron...

Peace!

Here:

8 Then Moses said to Korah, “Hear now, you sons of Levi: 9 Is it a small thing to you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to Himself, to do the work of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to serve them; 10 and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, the sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking the priesthood also? 11 Therefore you and all your company are gathered together against the Lord. And what is Aaron that you complain against him?”​

Their part of the kingdom of priests did not include all facets, not the duties of Moses and Aaron. So you are right. But my point is...that same error now exists with certain groups like the Catholics, except not by those questioning the authority of the Catholics, but rather by the Catholics assuming they have the authority of Moses and Aaron, when they do not.

They have wrongly assumed authority that was not given to them--not that no authority was given them--but it was not that of Moses and Aaron. That authority was given to One new High Priest, Jesus Christ. Which only leaves servants among the kingdom of priests: "some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers." But not all...which was the error of Korah.

 

[Giuliano]

Their part of the kingdom of priests did not include all facets, not the duties of Moses and Aaron.

I've read that their prayer shawls have four tassels to remind them, when they cover their heads with the shawls, that they are to pray for everyone, including all the Gentile nations to the four corners of the earth. We can see how many failed at acting for priests for the Gentiles by seeing themselves as superior and self-righteous, and how many did not even want to be around non-Jews. One reason for their being punished by exile was to force them out of their "comfort zone" by scattering them among the nations, forcing them to interact with Gentiles.

 

[Philip James]

They have wrongly assumed authority that was not given to them--not that no authority was given them--but it was not that of Moses and Aaron. That authority was given to One new High Priest, Jesus Christ. Which only leaves servants among the kingdom of priests: "some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers." But not all...which was the error of Korah.

That High Priest gave authority to His apostles and through them to the bishops and presbyters. It is rejecting that authority (which is Christ's authority working through them!) and especially rejecting that authority in saying 'who are ____ and ____ that they should rule over us? Are we not all anointed priests, prophets and kings?' that is the 'rebellion of Korah' that Christians can fall into...

Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me

And yes, we are all servants, of Jesus, and of each other. By which it should be easy to do this:

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.


Peace!

 

[marks]

First to the table, and the only ones allowed the blood?

Is this true??

 

[marks]

That High Priest gave authority to His apostles and through them to the bishops and presbyters. It is rejecting that authority (which is Christ's authority working through them!)

Scripture please.

 

[marks]

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Is it true that I've just heard? That not all share the cup in your church?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Is this true??

It’s my understanding that within the RCC the laity doesn’t receive the blood

 

[marks]

What am I a part of if not the Universal Church of Jesus Christ?

When have I said that?

Then let me ask plainly, am I? Am I a part of the Universal (Catholic) Church of Jesus Christ?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ill be glad to answer that question, when we have agreed that the bishops and presbyters have been given authority...

Where are they given authority, and what authority are they given? Is this in the Bible, or just what your church tells you. Because I don't believe the Bible Ever assigns authority of one man over another. In Christ we are to serve one another, and submit to one another, and such an authoritarian structure seems antithetical to that to me.

Who ever said that I should rule over you, or you over me??

Where, in the Bible?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here:

8 Then Moses said to Korah, “Hear now, you sons of Levi: 9 Is it a small thing to you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to Himself, to do the work of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to serve them; 10 and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, the sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking the priesthood also? 11 Therefore you and all your company are gathered together against the Lord. And what is Aaron that you complain against him?”​

Their part of the kingdom of priests did not include all facets, not the duties of Moses and Aaron. So you are right. But my point is...that same error now exists with certain groups like the Catholics, except not by those questioning the authority of the Catholics, but rather by the Catholics assuming they have the authority of Moses and Aaron, when they do not.

They have wrongly assumed authority that was not given to them--not that no authority was given them--but it was not that of Moses and Aaron. That authority was given to One new High Priest, Jesus Christ. Which only leaves servants among the kingdom of priests: "some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers." But not all...which was the error of Korah.

Their sin was envy, I believe.

This so-called "Moses Principal", as if we're supposed to have a single man as point for the church, is not Biblical. And I've seen it cause trouble over and over for churches. And the envy of those who grasp for power, and teach others it should be so . . . We are servants to each other.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@Philip James ,

I want you to know I truly appreciate the gentleness of your spirit, and the kindness with which you write, and I believe God's Holy Spirit fills you.

But I am first of all about the Bible, seeking to live the teaching of Scripture without limit or compromise. And I so truly believe that in this practice alone, as a guide for our faith in Christ, that we will see a full life of fruitfulness and joy.

I don't expect you would disagree with a single letter of this statement either. So I seek to determine these things from Scripture alone.

If teachers in the church are right in saying what you promote, then certainly we will find that teaching in Scripture, in clarity, and without contradiction, as we do all true teachings.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

They have wrongly assumed authority that was not given to them--not that no authority was given them--but it was not that of Moses and Aaron. That authority was given to One new High Priest, Jesus Christ.

Actually, Jesus is High Priest; but not after the order of the Aaronic priesthood: but according to the order of Melchizedec.

 

[Giuliano]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Pope had the same authority Moses had? Why hold councils to decide who's a heretic or who's disobedient? Just have the earth open up and swallow the priests and bishops who rebel against the authority of the Pope.

I think it might be great if people who lied to the Pope fell down dead. It might put the fear of God into some of the bad apples in the Catholic Church who tarnish its reputation.

 

[Philip James]

Scripture please.

In addition to those from Jude, Titus and Hebrews, which I have already posted:

Acts 14:23

They appointed presbyters for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

And of course there's the letters to Timothy which are instruction to a presbyter/bishop...

Let no one have contempt for your youth, but set an example for those who believe, in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity.

Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching.

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.

Do you now acknowledge that some were given authority as elders in the Church? Or do you need more verses?

Peace!