Justification by Faith Alone

[GracePeace]

Nah

Paul preached eternal life.

Paul said "I do not count myself as having already attained... I press on to lay hold on that for which Christ laid hold on me" "lay hold on the eternal life". This goes together with "those who do good today will reap eternal life when they are judged" Galatians 6:6-10. Luckily for Calvinists/Monergists, they tacitly agree with this, though using flawed arguments, saying "if you don't do good you aren't truly saved".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"His People" turned back after having had faith, and this serves as a warning to us, irrespective your manmade tradition which rejects the Bible, according to 1 Corinthians 10, and shows my interpretation Romans 14:23 as a warning ("sin condemns") is valid.

Stop denying reality.

Sin does condemn

as James said, if we keep whole law and stumble in just one point we are guilty

Paul spent the first part of galations trying to show people how n reality we are sinful people, and until we stop trying to be righteous, but repent that we are not righteous and come to God in faith, we are enslaved and indebted,

I am free from slavery, I am indebted to God for Hs work. My work is meaningless as filthy rags the Bible says.

I trust the word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. No, Paul warned them to check and make sure they had not left the faith (eg, as many of the Galatians had) 2 Corinthians 13:5. Paul didn't think people couldn't fall away. That's why even though they'd already had Christ preached to them, and had received the Spirit Galatians 3:1-5, Paul was trying to form Christ in them all over again Galatians 4:19.

2. You're misunderstanding Paul's argument in Galatians : he doesn't say "we're not saved by works of the Law, instead just believe" but "we're free from the Law--we have the New way of the Spirit, so serve one another by faith which works through love". He never said "faith alone" there, he literally says "eternal life will be harvested in the future judgment by those who sow good deeds today" in Galatians 6:6-10. Now, the tenor of the work is to be peace, and not fear (as if we were being threatened), but that's a different issue.

Nope. Paul told them they could have believed in vein, he also called them fools for thinking in our salvation journey we begin in the spirit (faith) but somehow must use the flesh to continue to be perfected.

the law condemns you where you stand, instead of watering down the law. Let it be the schoolmaster to lead you to Christ, as a condemned sinner

 

[GracePeace]

Sin does condemn

as James said, if we keep whole law and stumble in just one point we are guilty

Paul spent the first part of galations trying to show people how n reality we are sinful people, and until we stop trying to be righteous, but repent that we are not righteous and come to God in faith, we are enslaved and indebted,

I am free from slavery, I am indebted to God for Hs work. My work is meaningless as filthy rags the Bible says.

I trust the word.

I trust the Word as well--the Word I shared, which you haven't dealt with.

Nope. Paul told them they could have believed in vein, he also called them fools for thinking in our salvation journey we begin in the spirit (faith) but somehow must use the flesh to continue to be perfected.

the law condemns you where you stand, instead of watering down the law. Let it be the schoolmaster to lead you to Christ, as a condemned sinner

Oops! You're confusing "flesh" as if it referred to anything we're expected to do. No, under the New Covenant we have grace and we work God's works. Those works aren't flesh and aren't filthy rags but God's own works. "Not under Law" has nothing to do with whether we work or not but rather WHO PRODUCES THE WORKS. The Law relied on sinful flesh Romans 8:3 but under Grace God is doing the work. The issue isn't whether there need to be works but rather HOW they get done.

 

[GracePeace]

Nope. Paul told them they could have believed in vein, he also called them fools for thinking in our salvation journey we begin in the spirit (faith) but somehow must use the flesh to continue to be perfected.

What does the "nope" mean? What are you trying to deny?

Are you denying they heard the Gospel and received the Spirit? Paul is explicit that they heard the Gospel and received the Spirit. "Did you receive the Spirit by hearing with faith or by works of the Law?" That means he knows they received the Spirit. They later fell away from (the Spirit of) Grace.

To believe in vain means what? They believed. How could it be "in vain" that they believed? They fall away from the faith and reap no benefit from it. Vain. That's the textbook definition of "vanity". "For nothing". "Christ has become of no avail to you"--they believed in vain because they will now gain nothing from their former faith in Christ from which they had fallen away.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I trust the Word as well--the Word I shared, which you haven't dealt with.

Oops! You're confusing "flesh" as if it referred to anything we're expected to do. No, under the New Covenant we have grace and we work God's works. Those works aren't flesh and aren't filthy rags but God's own works. "Not under Law" has nothing to do with whether we work or not but rather WHO PRODUCES THE WORKS. The Law relied on sinful flesh Romans 8:3 but under Grace God is doing the work. The issue isn't whether there need to be works but rather HOW they get done.

The flesh is always referred to when we are talking about under our own power,

not by works of righteousness which we have done,

sorry bro. Your wrong here

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does the "nope" mean? What are you trying to deny?

Are you denying they heard the Gospel and received the Spirit? Paul is explicit that they heard the Gospel and received the Spirit. "Did you receive the Spirit by hearing with faith or by works of the Law?" That means he knows they received the Spirit. They later fell away from (the Spirit of) Grace.

To believe in vain means what? They believed. How could it be "in vain" that they believed? They fall away from the faith and reap no benefit from it. Vain. That's the textbook definition of "vanity". "For nothing". "Christ has become of no avail to you"--they believed in vain because they will now gain nothing from their former faith in Christ from which they had fallen away.

So they could recieve the spirit both ways?

he also asked if they believed in vein, IF it was in vein?

This means he was asking them to check internally. Did you believe at al

mere belief, or belief plus works is not saving faith

if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,

it’s not both faith plus law. It is one, ,

 

[GracePeace]

The flesh is always referred to when we are talking about under our own power,

This is literally a repetition of what I just said was wrong with your argument based on a misunderstanding of Paul's argument from Galatians--he doesn't mean "no works at all" just "not works that come from you"--so this is negligible and my point stands.

not by works of righteousness which we have done

Again, our "salvation" from sin and God's wrath is as the Jews' was from Egypt 1 Corinthians 10--we're warned we can fall under God's wrath and fail to inherit the Promise, just as happened with them, if we behave sinfully as they did--that again connects with my point on Romans 14:23 "if you sin you are condemned (not justified)".

So they could recieve the spirit both ways?

Not sure where you came up with such an extreme distortion.

he also asked if they believed in vein, IF it was in vein

This means he was asking them to check internally. Did you believe at al

mere belief, or belief plus works is not saving faith

He acknowledges their belief and says that Christ might not be in them (if they find they are not any longer in the faith)--same thing happened to the Galatians.

if it is of grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,

it’s not both faith plus law. It is one, ,

Yes, we're "saved"--and, again, this "salvation" we have is as the Jews' was from Egypt. The rest of the argument has already been articulated in this post so I don't need to repeat it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is literally a repetition of what I just said was wrong with your argument based on a misunderstanding of Paul's argument from Galatians--he doesn't mean "no works at all" just "not works that come from you"--so this is negligible and my point stands.


Again, our "salvation" from sin and God's wrath is as the Jews' was from Egypt 1 Corinthians 10--we're warned we can fall under God's wrath and fail to inherit the Promise, just as happened with them, if we behave sinfully as they did--that again connects with my point on Romans 14:23 "if you sin you are condemned (not justified)".


Not sure where you came up with such an extreme distortion.


He acknowledges their belief and says that Christ might not be in them (if they find they are not any longer in the faith)--same thing happened to the Galatians.


Yes, we're "saved"--and, again, this "salvation" we have is as the Jews' was from Egypt. The rest of the argument has already been articulated in this post so I don't need to repeat it.

lol. The jews who left did not believe

what part of he who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned ALREADY (a continual state) because they have not believed do you fail to understand?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

"Salvation by faith alone" ("saved" being un-Biblicallly defined as
"definitely going to heaven")

Precious friend, Biblically, "Definitely going to heaven," Because:

(1a) CHRIST "KNOWS them that ARE His!" (2_Timothy 2:19 KJB!):

"Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth SURE, Having
This SEAL, The LORD Knoweth them that are HIS..."

(1b) How long Has HE "Known them that are HIS"?:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in HEAVENLY
places in CHRIST: According as He Hath Chosen us In HIM
before the foundation of the world,..." (Ephesians_1:3-4 KJB!)

1c) ETERNAL "children of God" or conditional based on sin?:

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children By
JESUS CHRIST To Himself, According To The Good Pleasure
Of HIS Will, To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS GRACE,
Wherein HE Hath Made us Accepted In The Beloved.
(Ephesians_1:5-6 KJB!)

"In Whom we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, The
Forgiveness of sins, According To The Riches Of HIS GRACE;
(Ephesians_1:7 KJB!)

There is no middle-of-the-road doctrine: Christ once "knew" you,
you sinned, and then Christ DOES NOT "know" you, Because:

"CHRIST Has NEVER KNOWN them that are NOT HIS Own!"
(Matthew_7:21-23 KJB!), Correct?

Much More Biblical Confirmation:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Conclusion:
IF we chose the Biblical ETERNAL "children of God" then: Amen!

However, IF we chose the UN-biblical "conditional based on sin," Then:

"CHRIST Died In Vain!"

Be Blessed!

 

[GracePeace]

lol. The jews who left did not believe

what part of he who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned ALREADY (a continual state) because they have not believed do you fail to understand?

Precious friend, Biblically, "Definitely going to heaven," Because:

(1a) CHRIST "KNOWS them that ARE His!" (2_Timothy 2:19 KJB!):

"Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth SURE, Having
This SEAL, The LORD Knoweth them that are HIS..."

(1b) How long Has HE "Known them that are HIS"?:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in HEAVENLY
places in CHRIST: According as He Hath Chosen us In HIM
before the foundation of the world,..." (Ephesians_1:3-4 KJB!)

1c) ETERNAL "children of God" or conditional based on sin?:

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children By
JESUS CHRIST To Himself, According To The Good Pleasure
Of HIS Will, To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS GRACE,
Wherein HE Hath Made us Accepted In The Beloved.
(Ephesians_1:5-6 KJB!)

"In Whom we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, The
Forgiveness of sins, According To The Riches Of HIS GRACE;
(Ephesians_1:7 KJB!)

There is no middle-of-the-road doctrine: Christ once "knew" you,
you sinned, and then Christ DOES NOT "know" you, Because:

"CHRIST Has NEVER KNOWN them that are NOT HIS Own!"
(Matthew_7:21-23 KJB!), Correct?

Much More Biblical Confirmation:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Conclusion:
IF we chose the Biblical ETERNAL "children of God" then: Amen!

However, IF we chose the UN-biblical "conditional based on sin," Then:

"CHRIST Died In Vain!"

Be Blessed!

The Jews were "saved" from Egypt by the blood of a Lamb and baptized and yet they fell under God's wrath--this same thing can happen to Christians today.

If you disagree, you disagree with Paul 1 Corinthians 10.

 

[GracePeace]

Precious friend, Biblically, "Definitely going to heaven," Because:

(1a) CHRIST "KNOWS them that ARE His!" (2_Timothy 2:19 KJB!):

"Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth SURE, Having
This SEAL, The LORD Knoweth them that are HIS..."

(1b) How long Has HE "Known them that are HIS"?:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in HEAVENLY
places in CHRIST: According as He Hath Chosen us In HIM
before the foundation of the world,..." (Ephesians_1:3-4 KJB!)

1c) ETERNAL "children of God" or conditional based on sin?:

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children By
JESUS CHRIST To Himself, According To The Good Pleasure
Of HIS Will, To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS GRACE,
Wherein HE Hath Made us Accepted In The Beloved.
(Ephesians_1:5-6 KJB!)

"In Whom we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, The
Forgiveness of sins, According To The Riches Of HIS GRACE;
(Ephesians_1:7 KJB!)

There is no middle-of-the-road doctrine: Christ once "knew" you,
you sinned, and then Christ DOES NOT "know" you, Because:

"CHRIST Has NEVER KNOWN them that are NOT HIS Own!"
(Matthew_7:21-23 KJB!), Correct?

Much More Biblical Confirmation:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Conclusion:
IF we chose the Biblical ETERNAL "children of God" then: Amen!

However, IF we chose the UN-biblical "conditional based on sin," Then:
"CHRIST Died In Vain!"

Be Blessed!

Sorry, I don't ignore the Scripture that tells me "beholding then the kindness and severity of God".

I will not close my eyes to Scripture that warns me that just because I'm saved by the blood of the Lamb and baptized it doesn't mean I can't fall under God's wrath and fail to inherit the promise 1 Corinthians 10.

I see God's kindness (to which you refer), and I see God's severity--I don't see just one or the other.

 

[GracePeace]

Conclusion:
IF we chose the Biblical ETERNAL "children of God" then: Amen!

"They are no longer His children
Because they are corrupt"
Deuteronomy 32:5

These things were written to Christians 1 Corinthians 9:9-10, 1 Corinthians 10:11 to teach us the faith (how Christianity works) 2 Timothy 3:15.

However, IF we chose the UN-biblical "conditional based on sin," Then:

"CHRIST Died In Vain!"

This is mixing things up. "Christ died in vain" refers to the error of seeking justification by "works of Law"--where you don't have life, but you try to obtain it by good works--the works which Christians are to do (the ones which result in condemnation if we fail to do them Romans 14:23) are done by God not sinful flesh. The problem with being "under Law" was that Law relied on sinful flesh Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:3, but we're "under Grace", where God does the works, so that isn't the issue.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Jews were "saved" from Egypt by the blood of a Lamb and baptized and yet they fell under God's wrath--this same thing can happen to Christians today.

If you disagree, you disagree with Paul 1 Corinthians 10.

So they were saved in unbelief

Thats good to know

 

[GracePeace]

So they were saved in unbelief

Thats good to know

Things 1 Corinthians 10 teaches that you haven't the ability to form an argument against :

1) The Jews were "saved" (from Egypt, and God's judgment on Egypt, by the Blood of a Lamb)
2) The Jews were "baptized" (into Moses in the Red Sea)
3) The Jews, though both "saved" and "baptized", fell under God's wrath, and failed to inherit God's Promise, because they sinned
4) These things happened to them as "a type and shadow of things to come" Hebrews 10:1, and as a warning to Christians--the "antitypes" (the substantive realities to which these things correspond) are:
i) the salvation which Christians have by the blood of the Lamb
ii) our baptism into Christ
iii) we (Christians), too, are subject to falling under God's wrath and not inheriting what was Promised if we do not live in a way that is pleasing to God.

This is nothing other than what I am alleging about Romans 14:23--"if you sin you are condemned", "sin compromises justification".

Now, how you fit that in with your belief system is not my problem--you are required to hold to Scripture. You can cite anything else you like, but citing other verses that you think teach your doctrines (eg, eternal security, salvation by faith alone, etc,) is not going to have the effect of erasing any of these words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Things 1 Corinthians 10 teaches that you haven't the ability to form an argument against :

1) The Jews were "saved" (from Egypt, and God's judgment on Egypt, by the Blood of a Lamb)
2) The Jews were "baptized" (into Moses in the Red Sea)
3) The Jews, though both "saved" and "baptized", fell under God's wrath, and failed to inherit God's Promise, because they sinned
4) These things happened to them as "a type and shadow of things to come" Hebrews 10:1, and as a warning to Christians--the "antitypes" (the substantive realities to which these things correspond) are:
i) the salvation which Christians have by the blood of the Lamb
ii) our baptism into Christ
iii) we (Christians), too, are subject to falling under God's wrath and not inheriting what was Promised if we do not live in a way that is pleasing to God.

This is nothing other than what I am alleging about Romans 14:23--"if you sin you are condemned", "sin compromises justification".

Now, how you fit that in with your belief system is not my problem--you are required to hold to Scripture. You can cite anything else you like, but citing other verses that you think teach your doctrines (eg, eternal security, salvation by faith alone, etc,) is not going to have the effect of erasing any of these words.

1. the jews were saved from Egypt. Not their sins
2. The jews showed no works. They were hearers only not doers. they complained at the red sea. they complained every time they turned around. Showing they had no faith in God. when push came to shove and they arrived at their destination. They showed no faith by refusing to do what Gid told them
Yes they were baptized. Into MOSES. Not into Christ.

again, Its good to know you think people can be saved in non belief

 

[GracePeace]

1. the jews were saved from Egypt. Not their sins
2. The jews showed no works. They were hearers only not doers. they complained at the red sea. they complained every time they turned around. Showing they had no faith in God. when push came to shove and they arrived at their destination. They showed no faith by refusing to do what Gid told them
Yes they were baptized. Into MOSES. Not into Christ.

again, Its good to know you think people can be saved in non belief

This was already answered

4) These things happened to them as ("a type and shadow of things to come" Hebrews 10:1) a warning to Christians--the "antitypes" (the substantive realities to which these things correspond) are:
i) the salvation which Christians have by the blood of the Lamb
ii) our baptism into Christ
iii) we (Christians), too, are subject to falling under God's wrath and not inheriting what was Promised if we do not live in a way that is pleasing to God.

Paul's doctrine here states that even you're saved by the blood of the Lamb, and baptized into Christ, that means nothing if you live in sin, because you will fall under God's wrath and will not inherit the Promise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This was already answered

It may have been answered. it does not mean the answer was correct

Paul's doctrine here states that even you're saved by the blood of the Lamb, and baptized into Christ, that means nothing if you live in sin, because you will fall under God's wrath and will not inherit the Promise.

John said a child of God can not live in sin.

So I doubt john contradicted paul. In fact. Paul never taught any such thing,

 

[GracePeace]

It may have been answered. it does not mean the answer was correct

Your non-answer is what isn't correct : again, Paul's teaching is that there is a direct correspondence between the Jews' salvation and baptism and the Christians' salvation and baptism, and that, accordingly, Christians are also to understand there is a corresponding reality in the Christian life to the Jews' having lived in sin and having thereafter fallen under God's wrath instead of inheriting the Promise and so are to be warned.

Your intent here is to deny that teaching.
What motivates you is that you hold to a non-Biblical tradition.
You don't get your beliefs from Scripture.
Therefore, you fight against Scripture.

John said a child of God can not live in sin.

So I doubt john contradicted paul. In fact. Paul never taught any such thing,

We already went over that and we saw that you misinterpreted John.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This was already answered

It may have been answered. it does not mean the answer was correct

Paul's doctrine here states that even you're saved by the blood of the Lamb, and baptized into Christ, that means nothing if you live in sin, because you will fall under God's wrath and will not inherit the Promise.

John said a child of God can not live in sin.

So I doubt john contradicted paul. In fact. Paul never taught any such thing,

Your non-answer is what isn't correct : again, Paul's teaching is that there is a direct correspondence between the Jews' salvation and baptism and the Christians' salvation and baptism, and that, accordingly, Christians are also to understand there is a corresponding reality in the Christian life to the Jews' having lived in sin and having thereafter fallen under God's wrath instead of inheriting the Promise and so are to be warned.

Your intent here is to deny that teaching.
What motivates you is that you hold to a non-Biblical tradition.
You don't get your beliefs from Scripture.
Therefore, you fight against Scripture.


We already went over that and we saw that you misinterpreted John.

in other words we are at a stalemate

I know you misinterpret scripture you think I do

so I bid you a due, I will pray for you, but we have come to meaningless conversation