Justified by works: Keeping the law of God is not a sin

[Ghada]

It ought to occur to any Christian, that there is an inherent contradiction between believing on Jesus Christ, and also teaching not to keep His law, as though that were a sin and unjustified with Christ. Some Christians do teach it is a sin to even try to keep His law.

How can keeping and doing the law of God possibly be a sin? Isn't keeping the law perfectly what made Jesus the acceptable sacrifice to God and propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

How then can Paul be teaching against doing the works of the law, as though it were a sin to do so. And yet he preaches Jesus Christ as Saviour of all the world, by keeping the law righteously unto death? That would accuse Jesus of being the biggest of sinners, and saving men from keeping the law of God. And that is what some Christians preach, that He saves us from our sinning by saving us from God's law and keeping it.

And so we see in the Bible, how it's not the works of the law themselves that are sinful, but rather only keeping the law outwardly, while being inwardly filthy without the faith and love of God in the heart. (Titus 3:5) Jesus comes to purify the heart first, that our keeping of His law may be judged by God as doing His righteousness.

Christians are called upon by God to fulfill His law righteously, by first being purified and sanctified inwardly through the circumcision of Christ's Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinners in the flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't fulfill the righteousness of the law by not keeping and transgressing it. The 'righteousness of the law' is not to justify us by not keeping the law. We don't fulfill the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, by transgressing His own law. God did not send His law first, and then send His own Son to keep it and then do away with it. Jesus did not keep the law of God perfectly, so that He could kill it on the cross.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing Jesus said could be any clearer in response to them that hate the law of the Lord, and love doing unrighteousness rather than doing the righteousness of God, to the Jew first and now the Christian. Jesus does not come to destroy His own law.

Having sent His Son in the flesh, God now commands all men to repent in the spirit and in the flesh (2 Cor 7:1), to now be inwardly pure as Jesus was while doing the things of His law as He did. He commanded His people the same in the OT to circumcise the foreskin of our hearts, but the law alone in stone was weak to accomplish it. It shows that keeping the law outwardly alone can purify the life, but does not purify the heart. (Heb 9:13-14)

God does not command anyone not to keep His own law. He does not judge any man guilty in works by doing His own law, as though His law were sinful.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The only Christians that teach keeping the law is sinful, is because they don't want their own works to be judged as unrighteous transgression of it. They don't want and objective righteous law to judge their works, nor to be accountable in works with God nor man. They want God to do away with His law entirely by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. They even teach the law of God is dead, like those of the world who have said God is dead.

Neither in the OT nor the NT is any man excused from keeping God's law, and certainly not justified by transgressing it.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The only difference between Christians and Jews, is that we are now justified by doing the works of the law from a pure heart of Christ.

Many were judged blameless in the law of God beginning with Abraham and concluding with Jesus, but Jesus was the only man acceptable to God and justified to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is justified to be the Lamb of God for the whole world, precisely because He did ket the law from His youth up, and with a pure heart uncorrupted by the lust of the world.

That is now what Jesus comes to do for them that would keep the law of God righteously, and be justified freely by Him through faith in Jesus.

Another difference in keeping the law of God in the NT as opposed to the Old, is that now we do the law of Christ written by His apostles, rather than the law of Christ written by Moses.

And the greatest difference between the law that of Moses and the law of Christ, is that the law of Christ is now both inward and outward in works. It's the law of the Spirit that we can now obey and first be pure within, that we may also walk after the Spirit with pure works of God's righteousness.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither Jesus nor His prophets nor His apostles ever commands any man to not keep the law of God. That is a ridiculous proposition taught by some Christians, that rebel against being 'bound' by commandment of God to keep and do His law and righteousness.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

The risen Lord and God of Israel sits on His throne in utter derision of any Christian gospel, that declares keeping His law is a sin, and that the works of His law are sinful and have nothing to do with being justified by Him.

The One who kept the law in all points to become the Lamb of God for all men, cannot possibly be telling all men not to keep His law in any point.

The Bible says the opposite, that we ought to keep His law in all points, and so walk as He walked on earth.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[MatthewG]

If all by the Spirit of Christ then by all means.

The Law is spiritual and good, but my flesh is a slave to sin, but in Christ we most certainly are freed from sin and he fulfills the law for us.

It's important to even go back and read those laws, and learn about them. They will lead a person by the spirit to become obedient to doing what is right, which is what righteousness is, and whom Jesus Christ makes us in faith, because of his righteousness.

Romans 7​

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New Living Translation​

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​

No Longer Bound to the Law​

7 Now, dear brothers and sisters[a]—you who are familiar with the law—don’t you know that the law applies only while a person is living? 2 For example, when a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. 3 So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries.
4 So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God. 5 When we were controlled by our old nature,[b] sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death. 6 But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

God’s Law Reveals Our Sin​

7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”[c] 8 But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. 9 At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, 10 and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. 11 Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. 12 But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
13 But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.

Struggling with Sin​

14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. 15 I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[d] I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power[e] within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It ought to occur to any Christian, that there is an inherent contradiction between believing on Jesus Christ, and also teaching not to keep His law, as though that were a sin and unjustified with Christ. Some Christians do teach it is a sin to even try to keep His law.

How can keeping and doing the law of God possibly be a sin? Isn't keeping the law perfectly what made Jesus the acceptable sacrifice to God and propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

How then can Paul be teaching against doing the works of the law, as though it were a sin to do so. And yet he preaches Jesus Christ as Saviour of all the world, by keeping the law righteously unto death? That would accuse Jesus of being the biggest of sinners, and saving men from keeping the law of God. And that is what some Christians preach, that He saves us from our sinning by saving us from God's law and keeping it.

And so we see in the Bible, how it's not the works of the law themselves that are sinful, but rather only keeping the law outwardly, while being inwardly filthy without the faith and love of God in the heart. (Titus 3:5) Jesus comes to purify the heart first, that our keeping of His law may be judged by God as doing His righteousness.

Christians are called upon by God to fulfill His law righteously, by first being purified and sanctified inwardly through the circumcision of Christ's Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinners in the flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't fulfill the righteousness of the law by not keeping and transgressing it. The 'righteousness of the law' is not to justify us by not keeping the law. We don't fulfill the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, by transgressing His own law. God did not send His law first, and then send His own Son to keep it and then do away with it. Jesus did not keep the law of God perfectly, so that He could kill it on the cross.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing Jesus said could be any clearer in response to them that hate the law of the Lord, and love doing unrighteousness rather than doing the righteousness of God, to the Jew first and now the Christian. Jesus does not come to destroy His own law.

Having sent His Son in the flesh, God now commands all men to repent in the spirit and in the flesh (2 Cor 7:1), to now be inwardly pure as Jesus was while doing the things of His law as He did. He commanded His people the same in the OT to circumcise the foreskin of our hearts, but the law alone in stone was weak to accomplish it. It shows that keeping the law outwardly alone can purify the life, but does not purify the heart. (Heb 9:13-14)

God does not command anyone not to keep His own law. He does not judge any man guilty in works by doing His own law, as though His law were sinful.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The only Christians that teach keeping the law is sinful, is because they don't want their own works to be judged as unrighteous transgression of it. They don't want and objective righteous law to judge their works, nor to be accountable in works with God nor man. They want God to do away with His law entirely by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. They even teach the law of God is dead, like those of the world who have said God is dead.

Neither in the OT nor the NT is any man excused from keeping God's law, and certainly not justified by transgressing it.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The only difference between Christians and Jews, is that we are now justified by doing the works of the law from a pure heart of Christ.

Many were judged blameless in the law of God beginning with Abraham and concluding with Jesus, but Jesus was the only man acceptable to God and justified to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is justified to be the Lamb of God for the whole world, precisely because He did ket the law from His youth up, and with a pure heart uncorrupted by the lust of the world.

That is now what Jesus comes to do for them that would keep the law of God righteously, and be justified freely by Him through faith in Jesus.

Another difference in keeping the law of God in the NT as opposed to the Old, is that now we do the law of Christ written by His apostles, rather than the law of Christ written by Moses.

And the greatest difference between the law that of Moses and the law of Christ, is that the law of Christ is now both inward and outward in works. It's the law of the Spirit that we can now obey and first be pure within, that we may also walk after the Spirit with pure works of God's righteousness.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither Jesus nor His prophets nor His apostles ever commands any man to not keep the law of God. That is a ridiculous proposition taught by some Christians, that rebel against being 'bound' by commandment of God to keep and do His law and righteousness.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

The risen Lord and God of Israel sits on His throne in utter derision of any Christian gospel, that declares keeping His law is a sin, and that the works of His law are sinful and have nothing to do with being justified by Him.

The One who kept the law in all points to become the Lamb of God for all men, cannot possibly be telling all men not to keep His law in any point.

The Bible says the opposite, that we ought to keep His law in all points, and so walk as He walked on earth.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

obedience and holiness in living come from being saved.

No one here is saying that once a person is saved they can live like hell.

 

[ButterflyJones]

It ought to occur to any Christian, that there is an inherent contradiction between believing on Jesus Christ, and also teaching not to keep His law, as though that were a sin and unjustified with Christ. Some Christians do teach it is a sin to even try to keep His law.

How can keeping and doing the law of God possibly be a sin? Isn't keeping the law perfectly what made Jesus the acceptable sacrifice to God and propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

How then can Paul be teaching against doing the works of the law, as though it were a sin to do so. And yet he preaches Jesus Christ as Saviour of all the world, by keeping the law righteously unto death? That would accuse Jesus of being the biggest of sinners, and saving men from keeping the law of God. And that is what some Christians preach, that He saves us from our sinning by saving us from God's law and keeping it.

And so we see in the Bible, how it's not the works of the law themselves that are sinful, but rather only keeping the law outwardly, while being inwardly filthy without the faith and love of God in the heart. (Titus 3:5) Jesus comes to purify the heart first, that our keeping of His law may be judged by God as doing His righteousness.

Christians are called upon by God to fulfill His law righteously, by first being purified and sanctified inwardly through the circumcision of Christ's Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinners in the flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't fulfill the righteousness of the law by not keeping and transgressing it. The 'righteousness of the law' is not to justify us by not keeping the law. We don't fulfill the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, by transgressing His own law. God did not send His law first, and then send His own Son to keep it and then do away with it. Jesus did not keep the law of God perfectly, so that He could kill it on the cross.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing Jesus said could be any clearer in response to them that hate the law of the Lord, and love doing unrighteousness rather than doing the righteousness of God, to the Jew first and now the Christian. Jesus does not come to destroy His own law.

Having sent His Son in the flesh, God now commands all men to repent in the spirit and in the flesh (2 Cor 7:1), to now be inwardly pure as Jesus was while doing the things of His law as He did. He commanded His people the same in the OT to circumcise the foreskin of our hearts, but the law alone in stone was weak to accomplish it. It shows that keeping the law outwardly alone can purify the life, but does not purify the heart. (Heb 9:13-14)

God does not command anyone not to keep His own law. He does not judge any man guilty in works by doing His own law, as though His law were sinful.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The only Christians that teach keeping the law is sinful, is because they don't want their own works to be judged as unrighteous transgression of it. They don't want and objective righteous law to judge their works, nor to be accountable in works with God nor man. They want God to do away with His law entirely by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. They even teach the law of God is dead, like those of the world who have said God is dead.

Neither in the OT nor the NT is any man excused from keeping God's law, and certainly not justified by transgressing it.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The only difference between Christians and Jews, is that we are now justified by doing the works of the law from a pure heart of Christ.

Many were judged blameless in the law of God beginning with Abraham and concluding with Jesus, but Jesus was the only man acceptable to God and justified to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is justified to be the Lamb of God for the whole world, precisely because He did ket the law from His youth up, and with a pure heart uncorrupted by the lust of the world.

That is now what Jesus comes to do for them that would keep the law of God righteously, and be justified freely by Him through faith in Jesus.

Another difference in keeping the law of God in the NT as opposed to the Old, is that now we do the law of Christ written by His apostles, rather than the law of Christ written by Moses.

And the greatest difference between the law that of Moses and the law of Christ, is that the law of Christ is now both inward and outward in works. It's the law of the Spirit that we can now obey and first be pure within, that we may also walk after the Spirit with pure works of God's righteousness.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither Jesus nor His prophets nor His apostles ever commands any man to not keep the law of God. That is a ridiculous proposition taught by some Christians, that rebel against being 'bound' by commandment of God to keep and do His law and righteousness.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

The risen Lord and God of Israel sits on His throne in utter derision of any Christian gospel, that declares keeping His law is a sin, and that the works of His law are sinful and have nothing to do with being justified by Him.

The One who kept the law in all points to become the Lamb of God for all men, cannot possibly be telling all men not to keep His law in any point.

The Bible says the opposite, that we ought to keep His law in all points, and so walk as He walked on earth.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I never take anti-law proponents seriously.

They aren't serious so why feed their ignorance?

The laws of God are the foundation of our faith. Anyone who claims God's laws were only for the Jews is deeply disturbed. And suffer the sin of Antisemitism. Because they also deny Jesus was a Jew.
What was he? A blond Aryan instead? No.

No Christian, actual Bible reading Holy Spirit filled reborn Christian, denies God's laws are relevant.
Though there are those who will work to prove they're not.

Which makes them pitiful.

It really is as simple as that.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I never take anti-law proponents seriously.

They aren't serious so why feed their ignorance?

The laws of God are the foundation of our faith. Anyone who claims God's laws were only for the Jews is deeply disturbed. And suffer the sin of Antisemitism. Because they also deny Jesus was a Jew.
What was he? A blond Aryan instead? No.

No Christian, actual Bible reading Holy Spirit filled reborn Christian, denies God's laws are relevant.
Though there are those who will work to prove they're not.

Which makes them pitiful.

It really is as simple as that.

As long as you realize that keeping the law does not nor ever did save.

But all 613 commands of teh Mosaic Law were given by god to Moses. do you still keep them all? Are all still relevant? If you say no then by your own words you would deny you are abible reading spirit filled born again christian. so I hope you eat no pork or shellfish, do not mix fabrics, have nos ex with a spouse during menstruation etc.etc.

 

[Patrick1966]

No one here is saying that once a person is saved they can live like hell.

 

[Patrick1966]

John 14:15 ESV
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

 

[ButterflyJones]

As long as you realize that keeping the law does not nor ever did save.

But all 613 commands of teh Mosaic Law were given by god to Moses. do you still keep them all? Are all still relevant? If you say no then by your own words you would deny you are abible reading spirit filled born again christian. so I hope you eat no pork or shellfish, do not mix fabrics, have nos ex with a spouse during menstruation etc.etc.

If you read the New Testament you know the laws of God that apply in a Christian's faith.

The 613 Mitzvah were ostensibly divided in three parts. The sacrificial law does not apply any longer for Christians because Jesus was the last sin sacrifice.

The civil part of the law applied to Jewish culture. The decalogue are those laws that pertain to love of God, self, and our neighbors.

Jesus said, if you love me keep my commands.

And of course there's that little caviat regarding the law not being done away until Heaven and Earth pass away, and all is fulfilled.
Not all in the Messiah prophecies has been fulfilled.

 

[quietthinker]

Justified by works: Keeping the law of God is not a sin​

Keeping the Grace of God only works for non anarchists. Talking about the Grace of God works for anarchists.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you read the New Testament you know the laws of God that apply in a Christian's faith.

The 613 Mitzvah were ostensibly divided in three parts. The sacrificial law does not apply any longer for Christians because Jesus was the last sin sacrifice.

The civil part of the law applied to Jewish culture. The decalogue are those laws that pertain to love of God, self, and our neighbors.

Jesus said, if you love me keep my commands.

And of course there's that little caviat regarding the law not being done away until Heaven and Earth pass away, and all is fulfilled.
Not all in the Messiah prophecies has been fulfilled.

Those divisions are a man made division, not some divine dictate. You will not find any scriptures saying that the law is divided into three parts and that 2 of the three parts are now null and void.

Man is not saved nor maintain their salvation by obedience.

Only 9 of the ten written in stone were carried over.

But as for the decalogue:

2 Cor. 3:

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Galatians 3:23-25

King James Version

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23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law was given to bring us to christ.

 

[Davy]

Anyone who can read 1 Timothy 1 and 1 Corinthians 6 by Apostle Paul ought to realize using common sense that he was not against the following of God's laws that have not been done away with.

The commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself is a law first written in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus 19. It is also a commandment by Christ per The New Covenant. That should put into perspective how portions of God's laws still apply to Christian doctrine, like 1 Timothy 1 and 1 Cor.6. (and Galatians 5).

What Lord Jesus nailed to His cross was the handwriting of ordinances in the law. That's about the blood ordinances especially, like sacrifices, various required old covenant offerings, ceremonial ritual, etc. Jesus nailed that to His cross.

Jesus did not nail to His cross God's laws against murder, rape, thefts, perjury, lies, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc. All one need do is to look at Apostle Paul's lists about those things with declaring those who do such will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Penalties for doing those things are different, but they can still keep you out of God's coming Kingdom, for those who practice those things.

 

[MatthewG]

There is 7 ways God talks to people.

Psalms 19:1;Romans 2:15; Exodus 24:12; John 1:14; Romans 15:4;Hebrews 8:10; 2 Corintihans 5:2-3

Written on nature, written on conscience, written on tables of stone, christ the illustrated edition, the entire scriptures, written on the heart, the outward christian life living epistles.

 

[Ghada]

If all by the Spirit of Christ then by all means.

The Law is spiritual and good, but my flesh is a slave to sin, but in Christ we most certainly are freed from sin and he fulfills the law for us.

How does Jesus do and fulfill His law 'for us'? Is He using our bodies without our will? The Bible speaks of us fulfilling the law by Him doing the works through us. But how does He do our works of righteousness 'for us'? Isn't that like instead of us or in place of us?

They will lead a person by the spirit to become obedient to doing what is right, which is what righteousness is, and whom Jesus Christ makes us in faith, because of his righteousness.

This is exactly true in the Bible. There is no righteousness of God, whenever His righteousness is not being done.

 

[MatthewG]

How does Jesus do and fulfill His law 'for us'? Is He using our bodies without our will? The Bible speaks of us fulfilling the law by Him doing the works through us. But how does He do our works of righteousness 'for us'? Isn't that like instead of us or in place of us?

Hello Ghada

I believe it letting God work on your heart and mind, and allowing the spirit to come through,

being renewed in your mind, like it says in Romans 12 - allowing your flesh to be cut off like Paul says in Colossians 3, there is also check out all of Titus all 3 chapters just read them to yourself. That would be my encouragement, I could be wrong but you gotta think for yourself, cause the bible talks so much about our choice - and also whether we be in christ or abide in Christ - which could be found in John 15.

Let me know what you think on all of those points because they are profitable.

 

[Ghada]

obedience and holiness in living come from being saved.

The Bible says with being saved and justified by Christ. But why quibble. So long as we are now living holy and without blame before Him in love with Him, then that's all that matters. (Eph 1)

So long as we are doing the word faithfully from a pure heart, then whether we believe it has anything to do with being saved and justified or not, is a secondary doctrinal issue.

It's only when any doctrine leads to more ungodliness and doing works of the flesh, that the doctrine takes center stage as the cause of evil. That's when the blind follow blind guides, and the believers are seduced away from the living faith of God to a destructive faith of the devil and man. The serpent did it first with Even on earth.

No one here is saying that once a person is saved they can live like hell.

Some certainly are. Some say all believers are saved forever no matter how they live. Others say all men will be saved in the end. Some even include the devil himself for good measure, just to make sure they also are in heaven after living like the devil's children on earth.

It's the ungodly natural result of believing in the gospel of being saved and justified by God through faith alone, without ever have anything to do with how we are living on earth.

And so far as the topic at hand is concerned, there are also Christians that teach Christ killed the law of God, when He died on a cross. Some even go so far as to say, that only those keeping the law of Christ are sinning, as though God's law is dead and sinful to keep.

I only respond to what I hear from other Christians, and if necessary show how it errs from the Bible. I also acknowledge there are more extreme versions of certain Christian doctrines, that are not in the Bible.

 

[Ghada]

I never take anti-law proponents seriously.

They aren't serious so why feed their ignorance?

The laws of God are the foundation of our faith. Anyone who claims God's laws were only for the Jews is deeply disturbed. And suffer the sin of Antisemitism. Because they also deny Jesus was a Jew.
What was he? A blond Aryan instead? No.

No Christian, actual Bible reading Holy Spirit filled reborn Christian, denies God's laws are relevant.
Though there are those who will work to prove they're not.

Which makes them pitiful.

It really is as simple as that.

Plain speaking is refreshing to honest hearts. We have to love the true in order to do it.

I hate and abhor lying and vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

Exposing how certain Christian doctrines and gospels are not in the Bible is good for warning not to be deceived by them. throughout the Bible God brings up false prophecies and doctrines in order to show how they are not His own.

Also, it's a good exercise to show exactly how some teachings are not Biblical. It also reconfirms and reestablishes the truth of the Bible for those believers that do love the truth to do God's will, not the will of other teachers.

 

[Bob Estey]

It ought to occur to any Christian, that there is an inherent contradiction between believing on Jesus Christ, and also teaching not to keep His law, as though that were a sin and unjustified with Christ. Some Christians do teach it is a sin to even try to keep His law.

How can keeping and doing the law of God possibly be a sin? Isn't keeping the law perfectly what made Jesus the acceptable sacrifice to God and propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

How then can Paul be teaching against doing the works of the law, as though it were a sin to do so. And yet he preaches Jesus Christ as Saviour of all the world, by keeping the law righteously unto death? That would accuse Jesus of being the biggest of sinners, and saving men from keeping the law of God. And that is what some Christians preach, that He saves us from our sinning by saving us from God's law and keeping it.

And so we see in the Bible, how it's not the works of the law themselves that are sinful, but rather only keeping the law outwardly, while being inwardly filthy without the faith and love of God in the heart. (Titus 3:5) Jesus comes to purify the heart first, that our keeping of His law may be judged by God as doing His righteousness.

Christians are called upon by God to fulfill His law righteously, by first being purified and sanctified inwardly through the circumcision of Christ's Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinners in the flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't fulfill the righteousness of the law by not keeping and transgressing it. The 'righteousness of the law' is not to justify us by not keeping the law. We don't fulfill the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, by transgressing His own law. God did not send His law first, and then send His own Son to keep it and then do away with it. Jesus did not keep the law of God perfectly, so that He could kill it on the cross.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing Jesus said could be any clearer in response to them that hate the law of the Lord, and love doing unrighteousness rather than doing the righteousness of God, to the Jew first and now the Christian. Jesus does not come to destroy His own law.

Having sent His Son in the flesh, God now commands all men to repent in the spirit and in the flesh (2 Cor 7:1), to now be inwardly pure as Jesus was while doing the things of His law as He did. He commanded His people the same in the OT to circumcise the foreskin of our hearts, but the law alone in stone was weak to accomplish it. It shows that keeping the law outwardly alone can purify the life, but does not purify the heart. (Heb 9:13-14)

God does not command anyone not to keep His own law. He does not judge any man guilty in works by doing His own law, as though His law were sinful.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The only Christians that teach keeping the law is sinful, is because they don't want their own works to be judged as unrighteous transgression of it. They don't want and objective righteous law to judge their works, nor to be accountable in works with God nor man. They want God to do away with His law entirely by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. They even teach the law of God is dead, like those of the world who have said God is dead.

Neither in the OT nor the NT is any man excused from keeping God's law, and certainly not justified by transgressing it.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The only difference between Christians and Jews, is that we are now justified by doing the works of the law from a pure heart of Christ.

Many were judged blameless in the law of God beginning with Abraham and concluding with Jesus, but Jesus was the only man acceptable to God and justified to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is justified to be the Lamb of God for the whole world, precisely because He did ket the law from His youth up, and with a pure heart uncorrupted by the lust of the world.

That is now what Jesus comes to do for them that would keep the law of God righteously, and be justified freely by Him through faith in Jesus.

Another difference in keeping the law of God in the NT as opposed to the Old, is that now we do the law of Christ written by His apostles, rather than the law of Christ written by Moses.

And the greatest difference between the law that of Moses and the law of Christ, is that the law of Christ is now both inward and outward in works. It's the law of the Spirit that we can now obey and first be pure within, that we may also walk after the Spirit with pure works of God's righteousness.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither Jesus nor His prophets nor His apostles ever commands any man to not keep the law of God. That is a ridiculous proposition taught by some Christians, that rebel against being 'bound' by commandment of God to keep and do His law and righteousness.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

The risen Lord and God of Israel sits on His throne in utter derision of any Christian gospel, that declares keeping His law is a sin, and that the works of His law are sinful and have nothing to do with being justified by Him.

The One who kept the law in all points to become the Lamb of God for all men, cannot possibly be telling all men not to keep His law in any point.

The Bible says the opposite, that we ought to keep His law in all points, and so walk as He walked on earth.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

People keep telling me that we are not under the law, but if I rob a bank, I'll probably go to prison.

 

[David in NJ]

It ought to occur to any Christian, that there is an inherent contradiction between believing on Jesus Christ, and also teaching not to keep His law, as though that were a sin and unjustified with Christ. Some Christians do teach it is a sin to even try to keep His law.

How can keeping and doing the law of God possibly be a sin? Isn't keeping the law perfectly what made Jesus the acceptable sacrifice to God and propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

How then can Paul be teaching against doing the works of the law, as though it were a sin to do so. And yet he preaches Jesus Christ as Saviour of all the world, by keeping the law righteously unto death? That would accuse Jesus of being the biggest of sinners, and saving men from keeping the law of God. And that is what some Christians preach, that He saves us from our sinning by saving us from God's law and keeping it.

And so we see in the Bible, how it's not the works of the law themselves that are sinful, but rather only keeping the law outwardly, while being inwardly filthy without the faith and love of God in the heart. (Titus 3:5) Jesus comes to purify the heart first, that our keeping of His law may be judged by God as doing His righteousness.

Christians are called upon by God to fulfill His law righteously, by first being purified and sanctified inwardly through the circumcision of Christ's Spirit.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinners in the flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't fulfill the righteousness of the law by not keeping and transgressing it. The 'righteousness of the law' is not to justify us by not keeping the law. We don't fulfill the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, by transgressing His own law. God did not send His law first, and then send His own Son to keep it and then do away with it. Jesus did not keep the law of God perfectly, so that He could kill it on the cross.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Nothing Jesus said could be any clearer in response to them that hate the law of the Lord, and love doing unrighteousness rather than doing the righteousness of God, to the Jew first and now the Christian. Jesus does not come to destroy His own law.

Having sent His Son in the flesh, God now commands all men to repent in the spirit and in the flesh (2 Cor 7:1), to now be inwardly pure as Jesus was while doing the things of His law as He did. He commanded His people the same in the OT to circumcise the foreskin of our hearts, but the law alone in stone was weak to accomplish it. It shows that keeping the law outwardly alone can purify the life, but does not purify the heart. (Heb 9:13-14)

God does not command anyone not to keep His own law. He does not judge any man guilty in works by doing His own law, as though His law were sinful.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The only Christians that teach keeping the law is sinful, is because they don't want their own works to be judged as unrighteous transgression of it. They don't want and objective righteous law to judge their works, nor to be accountable in works with God nor man. They want God to do away with His law entirely by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. They even teach the law of God is dead, like those of the world who have said God is dead.

Neither in the OT nor the NT is any man excused from keeping God's law, and certainly not justified by transgressing it.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The only difference between Christians and Jews, is that we are now justified by doing the works of the law from a pure heart of Christ.

Many were judged blameless in the law of God beginning with Abraham and concluding with Jesus, but Jesus was the only man acceptable to God and justified to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is justified to be the Lamb of God for the whole world, precisely because He did ket the law from His youth up, and with a pure heart uncorrupted by the lust of the world.

That is now what Jesus comes to do for them that would keep the law of God righteously, and be justified freely by Him through faith in Jesus.

Another difference in keeping the law of God in the NT as opposed to the Old, is that now we do the law of Christ written by His apostles, rather than the law of Christ written by Moses.

And the greatest difference between the law that of Moses and the law of Christ, is that the law of Christ is now both inward and outward in works. It's the law of the Spirit that we can now obey and first be pure within, that we may also walk after the Spirit with pure works of God's righteousness.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither Jesus nor His prophets nor His apostles ever commands any man to not keep the law of God. That is a ridiculous proposition taught by some Christians, that rebel against being 'bound' by commandment of God to keep and do His law and righteousness.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

The risen Lord and God of Israel sits on His throne in utter derision of any Christian gospel, that declares keeping His law is a sin, and that the works of His law are sinful and have nothing to do with being justified by Him.

The One who kept the law in all points to become the Lamb of God for all men, cannot possibly be telling all men not to keep His law in any point.

The Bible says the opposite, that we ought to keep His law in all points, and so walk as He walked on earth.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Law of Christ and the OT law are two distinct applications.

The Law of Christ grants Grace and Truth unto Eternal Life.

The OT law gives us the knowledge of our sin that leads to death.

You cannot serve two Masters = choose wisely = your righteousness by the law or the Righteousness of Faith in Christ

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Bible says with being saved and justified by Christ. But why quibble. So long as we are now living holy and without blame before Him in love with Him, then that's all that matters. (Eph 1)

So long as we are doing the word faithfully from a pure heart, then whether we believe it has anything to do with being saved and justified or not, is a secondary doctrinal issue.

It's only when any doctrine leads to more ungodliness and doing works of the flesh, that the doctrine takes center stage as the cause of evil. That's when the blind follow blind guides, and the believers are seduced away from the living faith of God to a destructive faith of the devil and man. The serpent did it first with Even on earth.

I agree with all this. but truth is truth and as the followers of Jesus as is commanded in Jude we are to earnestly contend for the truth.

Wrong beliefs always produce wrong results in a persons life.

Some certainly are. Some say all believers are saved forever no matter how they live. Others say all men will be saved in the end. Some even include the devil himself for good measure, just to make sure they also are in heaven after living like the devil's children on earth.

It's the ungodly natural result of believing in the gospel of being saved and justified by God through faith alone, without ever have anything to do with how we are living on earth.

And so far as the topic at hand is concerned, there are also Christians that teach Christ killed the law of God, when He died on a cross. Some even go so far as to say, that only those keeping the law of Christ are sinning, as though God's law is dead and sinful to keep.

I only respond to what I hear from other Christians, and if necessary show how it errs from the Bible. I also acknowledge there are more extreme versions of certain Christian doctrines, that are not in the Bible.

If a person is truly Born Again, then they are saved forever no matter how good or bad they live!

You need to understand , sin is no longer an issue. Jesus paid for all of a persons snin of the cross. when we trust HIm as Savior and Lord, all of our sin debt (past present and future) is removed. We become the children of God! We may be disobedient children, but we are children nonetheless.

 

[ButterflyJones]

People keep telling me that we are not under the law, but if I rob a bank, I'll probably go to prison.

Because, thou did steal.