King James Version

[jiggyfly]

the actual hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua.

Whats your source?

... archaeologist5, as I said in an earlier post, "...there is NO "J" in Koine Greek OR Hebrew." You didn't see the "J" ADDED to the Lord's name until later after the first century, around 1611 when the KJV was printed. The Gentiles call "Y[sup]e[/sup]hôwshûwaʿ, Joshua. The Gentile (translators) have added/changed his name from Yeshowshuwa to Joshua.

I am guessing the reason for the changes is to make it easier to pronounce and remember his name?? (I don't know for sure)


charlesj

Tis true, the same was done with YHVH (yod, hey, vov, hey).

#1 i have studied greek and know about it.
#2. you know little about how translation works.
#3. your opinion doesn't matter nor count for the last time I checked God did not raise you up to change His word. there is nothing wrong with the way the KJV translates Jesus, Joshua or Jerusalem.

Does your opinion have any more value than the others posting here?

 

[rockytopva]

I think that the greek and hebrew meant slightly different things when the bible was written.. King James is the version I read, the holy Spirit is very clear through it.

I am a King James guy... However I like to read it with the Strongs Hebrew and Greek translation. Lets study the Latin word Caritus...

Caritus: Latin’s highest form of Love.
Charit'e: French derivative, "Cheri" means beloved.
Charis: The Greek word for Grace (Unconditional Love)
Chara: The Greek word for Joy.
Eucharisteo: The Greek word for gratitude… Eu - much Charis - grace
Charizomai: The Greek word for well-favored…. Notice another root of charis here
Chairo: The Greek word for Cheer. English expletive "Cheerio Mate!
Chrestos: Useful (in manner or morals), gracious.
Chrestotes: Excellence in character.
Euchrestos: Greek for profitable
Charisma: Heavenly Graciousness charis - grace ma - heavenly much grace!
Chrisma: Heavenly Anointing chris - anoint ma - heavenly much anointing!

But when you look at the King James charity in the Greek you get agape - which is basically aga (much) phileo (love). So when I read the bible I like to have software with three windows... One for the KJV, one for the Strong's interpretation, and a little dictionary window to give the Strong's English interpretation. When I post here I normally give the full King James scripture and the scripture reference to see Hammerstone's versions interpretation. And if the interpretations are different I will go back to the Stongs and see the original word. Sometimes both versions will give a perspective on the word that fits the Strong's interpretation, but with different words.

 

[jiggyfly]

IMO an excellent book on the subject of the KJV and the history that surrounds it is "In The Beginning" by Alister McGrath.

 

[charlesj]

I am a King James guy... However I like to read it with the Strongs Hebrew and Greek translation. Lets study the Latin word Caritus...

Caritus: Latin’s highest form of Love.
Charit'e: French derivative, "Cheri" means beloved.
Charis: The Greek word for Grace (Unconditional Love)
Chara: The Greek word for Joy.
Eucharisteo: The Greek word for gratitude… Eu - much Charis - grace
Charizomai: The Greek word for well-favored…. Notice another root of charis here
Chairo: The Greek word for Cheer. English expletive "Cheerio Mate!
Chrestos: Useful (in manner or morals), gracious.
Chrestotes: Excellence in character.
Euchrestos: Greek for profitable
Charisma: Heavenly Graciousness charis - grace ma - heavenly much grace!
Chrisma: Heavenly Anointing chris - anoint ma - heavenly much anointing!

But when you look at the King James charity in the Greek you get agape - which is basically aga (much) phileo (love). So when I read the bible I like to have software with three windows... One for the KJV, one for the Strong's interpretation, and a little dictionary window to give the Strong's English interpretation. When I post here I normally give the full King James scripture and the scripture reference to see Hammerstone's versions interpretation. And if the interpretations are different I will go back to the Stongs and see the original word. Sometimes both versions will give a perspective on the word that fits the Strong's interpretation, but with different words.

Hello Disciple:

Good study! I like the way you presented your study.

I use the Logos Bible Software (Scholars Edition with a bunch of "add on's") and I basically do the same thing as you do here. With Logos software I can hover above the word if I want a definition I will left click my mouse on the word. When I left click the mouse on the word then on the right side of my screen is a column and the definition shows up. First, in the column, it gives a college dictionary dfn., then Strongs definition and also below that a definition from Louw-Nida. and last, but not least is A Dictionary of Bibilical Languages. with Semantic Domains: Greek by James A. Swanson. On my Strong's Definition a little "speaker" shows up. If I want to know how the Greek word is pronounced I just click on the speaker.

May the Lord be with us,

charlesj

#1 i have studied greek and know about it.
#2. you know little about how translation works.
#3. your opinion doesn't matter nor count for the last time I checked God did not raise you up to change His word. there is nothing wrong with the way the KJV translates Jesus, Joshua or Jerusalem.

There are several kinds of Greek.... Baptist Greek, Lutheran Greek, Pentecostal Greek and then "greasy Greek."

 

[archaeologist5]

IMO an excellent book on the subject of the KJV and the history that surrounds it is "In The Beginning" by Alister McGrath.

i have that book, it is quite good.

Lets study the Latin word Caritus...

Why, latin was NOT an original language?

There are several kinds of Greek

there is only 1 koinenia (sp) greek.

Does your opinion have any more value than the others posting here?

depends upon the listener but you are not to be listening to me but the Holy Spirit and so far most people i have seen on this forum are not being led by Him but their own desires.

 

[jiggyfly]

depends upon the listener but you are not to be listening to me but the Holy Spirit and so far most people i have seen on this forum are not being led by Him but their own desires.

This too, is just an opinion.

Now to get back on topic.

the actual hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua.

What is your source here?

 

[archaeologist5]

This too, is just an opinion.

if that is your attitude then you get no more information from me.

 

[jiggyfly]

if that is your attitude then you get no more information from me.

The only information I was asking from you is what your source was on your earlier comment that the "actual Hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua".

As Charles mentioned earlier the Hebrew language did not contain the letter "J" in it so whatever your source, it is errant.

 

[archaeologist5]

As Charles mentioned earlier the Hebrew language did not contain the letter "J" in it so whatever your source, it is errant.

so you blindly take the word of one annonymous poster to bash another. you have a lot to learn:

http://hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/Hebrew_Glossary_-_J/hebrew_glossary_-_j.html

it won't let me copy so scroll down to the word Jesus and read it for yourself.

read both entries for the word Jesus.

people who take a few courses in a language all think they have discovered something new or that God is calling them to make changes. they are NOT and HE is NOT. what God is telling ou is to learn how translation works properly so you do not confuse His followers.

 

[charlesj]

so you blindly take the word of one annonymous poster to bash another. you have a lot to learn:

http://hebrew4christ...ossary_-_j.html

it won't let me copy so scroll down to the word Jesus and read it for yourself.

read both entries for the word Jesus.

people who take a few courses in a language all think they have discovered something new or that God is calling them to make changes. they are NOT and HE is NOT. what God is telling ou is to learn how translation works properly so you do not confuse His followers.

Hello again archaeologist5:


The web site you gave a link to is John Parsons site. He put all this together himself.

" Kindly note: The material on this site is my own personal work.... May the Lord God of Israel, the Father of Yeshua the Messiah,
bless you, keep you, and shine His love upon you: חֶסֶד וְשָׁלוֹם יִתֵּן
לָכֶם אֱלהִים אָבִינוּ וְיֵשׁוּעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ אֲדנֵינוּ (Eph. 1:2).

John Parsons"

Notice that John calls the Son of God "Yeshua." (This is found on the "home page" of the link you gave)

archaeologist5, when I read you posts I get the feeling you have an "axe to grind." Maybe someone has made you mad? I hope it was none of us on this forum. If I've offended you, please let me know

May the Lord be with us,

charlesj

 

[tomwebster]

so you blindly take the word of one annonymous poster to bash another. you have a lot to learn:

http://hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/Hebrew_Glossary_-_J/hebrew_glossary_-_j.html

it won't let me copy so scroll down to the word Jesus and read it for yourself.

read both entries for the word Jesus.

people who take a few courses in a language all think they have discovered something new or that God is calling them to make changes. they are NOT and HE is NOT. what God is telling ou is to learn how translation works properly so you do not confuse His followers.

arc,
go back to the web site you posted and look at the pronunciations of the words, all “yah,” because there are no J’s in Hebrew. There are no “w’s” either. Sorry, you are incorrect here.

 

[archaeologist5]

when you post legitmate and scholarly sources maybe i will listen to you. you obviously do not know how translation works and have never lived in a country where english is not its original language.

Hello again archaeologist5:


The web site you gave a link to is John Parsons site. He put all this together himself.

" Kindly note: The material on this site is my own personal work.... May the Lord God of Israel, the Father of Yeshua the Messiah,
bless you, keep you, and shine His love upon you: חֶסֶד וְשָׁלוֹם יִתֵּן
לָכֶם אֱלהִים אָבִינוּ וְיֵשׁוּעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ אֲדנֵינוּ (Eph. 1:2).

John Parsons"

Notice that John calls the Son of God "Yeshua." (This is found on the "home page" of the link you gave)

archaeologist5, when I read you posts I get the feeling you have an "axe to grind." Maybe someone has made you mad? I hope it was none of us on this forum. If I've offended you, please let me know

May the Lord be with us,

charlesj

it is no different than you saying what you are saying so obviously you think you are not being hypocritical when you are. as for the remainder of your post, mind your own business how binery transfers communication is not accurate and you need to learn to simply post and present your position without the false analysis which you are undoubtably unqualified to make..

learn a few things and remember that you are not the final word on any topic. in subsequent translations since the KJV, BY real scholars, which include men of God whom the Holy Spirit would have led to make the letter change if it was wrong. last i looked, you were not one of those men nor are being led of God to state such fallacies as you do. there is more to translation than you realize and God has it in control which means you need to study how translation works not just the original languages.

 

[charlesj]

when you post legitmate and scholarly sources maybe i will listen to you. you obviously do not know how translation works and have never lived in a country where english is not its original language.






it is no different than you saying what you are saying so obviously you think you are not being hypocritical when you are. as for the remainder of your post, mind your own business how binery transfers communication is not accurate and you need to learn to simply post and present your position without the false analysis which you are undoubtably unqualified to make..

learn a few things and remember that you are not the final word on any topic. in subsequent translations since the KJV, BY real scholars, which include men of God whom the Holy Spirit would have led to make the letter change if it was wrong. last i looked, you were not one of those men nor are being led of God to state such fallacies as you do. there is more to translation than you realize and God has it in control which means you need to study how translation works not just the original languages.

Hello Arc…:

Sorry you feel this way. Maybe because I have lived in Texas all my life except for my military
service and you are oriental (culture difference) we are in disagreement. I hope I haven’t offended you in something I wrote in an earlier post?

I don’t have to know the way “translations” are done. I KNOW there is NO “J” in the Koine Greek OR the Hebrew language. IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!
When you see a “J” in the name of the Son of God and knowing that it was translated from the Koine Greek then you KNOW
there is an error.

Here is Matthew 1:1ff from the Complete Jewish Bible:

1 [sup]1 [/sup]This is the genealogy of Yeshua the Messiah, son of David, son of Avraham:

[sup]2 [/sup] Avraham was the father of Yitz’chak, Yitz’chak was the father of Ya‘akov,


Ya‘akov was the father of Y’hudah and his brothers,

This Bible was translated by a Jew named David Stern. What did he call the Messiah? Was it “Jesus”? No, it was Yeshua.

Arc, just "calm down a little."

May the Lord be with us,

charlesj









Like I told you in an earlier post, I think you have an axe to
grind.





charlesj

 

[archaeologist5]

Hello Arc…:

Sorry you feel this way. Maybe because I have lived in Texas all my life except for my military
service and you are oriental (culture difference) we are in disagreement. I hope I haven’t offended you in something I wrote in an earlier post?

I don’t have to know the way “translations” are done. I KNOW there is NO “J” in the Koine Greek OR the Hebrew language. IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!
When you see a “J” in the name of the Son of God and knowing that it was translated from the Koine Greek then you KNOW
there is an error.

Here is Matthew 1:1ff from the Complete Jewish Bible:

1 [sup]1 [/sup]This is the genealogy of Yeshua the Messiah, son of David, son of Avraham:

[sup]2 [/sup] Avraham was the father of Yitz’chak, Yitz’chak was the father of Ya‘akov,


Ya‘akov was the father of Y’hudah and his brothers,

This Bible was translated by a Jew named David Stern. What did he call the Messiah? Was it “Jesus”? No, it was Yeshua.

Arc, just "calm down a little."

May the Lord be with us,

charlesj









Like I told you in an earlier post, I think you have an axe to
grind.





charlesj

you do not get it there doesn't HAVE to be the letter 'j' in ancient greek or hebrew for it to be used in english. there are MANY languages which have less letters than the ones in the english alphabet and there are languages that have more. having a letter present or absent is a minor problem and does not call for a re-translation of the whole Bible and does NOT nullify a previously translated version. you are certainly missing the point of my posts and keep harping on the same ridiculous concept which you clearly do not understand.

in reading the bio for the jewish bible isee problems with it for it is "Because it is the only English version of the Bible fully Jewish in style and presentation" it cannot be relied upon to give the proper ENGLISH translation and use proper translating rules. plus it is the work of 1 man and nothing that says he was lead of God to make corrections to the ENGLISH versions.

you need to get off this idea that the use of the letter 'j' is wrong for it isn't. the spanish language has a silent 'j' and thus those who use a form of spanish do not say 'Jesus' they say (and this is a transliteration so you get the pronounciation) 'hey zeus'. does that mean that all spanish Bibles are wrong because they use the 'j' and do not pronounce it?

think instead of reacting.

you clearly need to study up on translation and its methods and rules.

P>S>__the name is 'archaeologist5' NOT 'arc'. please do it correctly.

 

[jiggyfly]

you do not get it there doesn't HAVE to be the letter 'j' in ancient greek or hebrew for it to be used in english. there are MANY languages which have less letters than the ones in the english alphabet and there are languages that have more. having a letter present or absent is a minor problem and does not call for a re-translation of the whole Bible and does NOT nullify a previously translated version. you are certainly missing the point of my posts and keep harping on the same ridiculous concept which you clearly do not understand.

in reading the bio for the jewish bible isee problems with it for it is "Because it is the only English version of the Bible fully Jewish in style and presentation" it cannot be relied upon to give the proper ENGLISH translation and use proper translating rules. plus it is the work of 1 man and nothing that says he was lead of God to make corrections to the ENGLISH versions.

you need to get off this idea that the use of the letter 'j' is wrong for it isn't. the spanish language has a silent 'j' and thus those who use a form of spanish do not say 'Jesus' they say (and this is a transliteration so you get the pronounciation) 'hey zeus'. does that mean that all spanish Bibles are wrong because they use the 'j' and do not pronounce it?

think instead of reacting.

you clearly need to study up on translation and its methods and rules.

P>S>__the name is 'archaeologist5' NOT 'arc'. please do it correctly.

No one to my knowledge has argued the English transliteration of Jesus from the Hebrew word Yeshua, it is your incorrect statement that "actual Hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua".


But we should get back on topic.

 

[charlesj]

No one to my knowledge has argued the English transliteration of Jesus from the Hebrew word Yeshua, it is your incorrect statement that [font="tahoma][size="2"] "actual Hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua".[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5d5d5d"][font="tahoma][size="2"]But we should get back on topic.[/size][/font]

jiggyfly:

I am with you on getting back to the "topic."

May the Lord be with all of us,

charlesj

you do not get it there doesn't HAVE to be the letter 'j' in ancient greek or hebrew for it to be used in english. there are MANY languages which have less letters than the ones in the english alphabet and there are languages that have more. having a letter present or absent is a minor problem and does not call for a re-translation of the whole Bible and does NOT nullify a previously translated version. you are certainly missing the point of my posts and keep harping on the same ridiculous concept which you clearly do not understand.

in reading the bio for the jewish bible isee problems with it for it is "Because it is the only English version of the Bible fully Jewish in style and presentation" it cannot be relied upon to give the proper ENGLISH translation and use proper translating rules. plus it is the work of 1 man and nothing that says he was lead of God to make corrections to the ENGLISH versions.

you need to get off this idea that the use of the letter 'j' is wrong for it isn't. the spanish language has a silent 'j' and thus those who use a form of spanish do not say 'Jesus' they say (and this is a transliteration so you get the pronounciation) 'hey zeus'. does that mean that all spanish Bibles are wrong because they use the 'j' and do not pronounce it?

think instead of reacting.

you clearly need to study up on translation and its methods and rules.

P>S>__the name is 'archaeologist5' NOT 'arc'. please do it correctly.

Hello archaeologist5:

Sorry about calling you by the WRONG name.

Let's just drop it and get back to the topic??

May the Lord be with all of us,

charlesj

 

[tomwebster]

Is KJV good or bad and why? I'll tell you what I think after I get some answers.

I don't use just any old KJV. I use the THE COMPANION BIBLE, a KJV Bible, edited by Dr. E. W. Bullinger. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/9839-the-companion-bible-a-kjv-bible-edited-by-dr-e-w-bullinger/ I believe it is the best KJV available. I also us the Strong's Concordance, which is keyed to the KJV, because my Greek and Hebrew is getting a little rusty. The problem with the Strong's is it does not give the part of speech for the Greek or Hebrew word so I also consult one of several Hebrew and Greek Lexicons.

 

[RubberDuckey]

I don't use just any old KJV. I use the THE COMPANION BIBLE, a KJV Bible, edited by Dr. E. W. Bullinger. http://www.christian...-e-w-bullinger/ I believe it is the best KJV available. I also us the Strong's Concordance, which is keyed to the KJV, because my Greek and Hebrew is getting a little rusty. The problem with the Strong's is it does not give the part of speech for the Greek or Hebrew word so I also consult one of several Hebrew and Greek Lexicons.

I would love to learn Hebrew! That would be a goal of mine before I die.

 

[charlesj]

I would love to learn Hebrew! That would be a goal of mine before I die.

Hey Rubber Ducky:


Before you die, listen to Psalms 8 sung in Hebrew. http://wn.com/Psalm_8_sung_in_Hebrew

BEAUTIFUL SONG, BEAUTIFUL LANGUAGE.

I hope you learn the Hebrew and Greek.

In His Name,

charlesj

 

[RubberDuckey]

Hey Rubber Ducky:


Before you die, listen to Psalms 8 sung in Hebrew. http://wn.com/Psalm_8_sung_in_Hebrew

BEAUTIFUL SONG, BEAUTIFUL LANGUAGE.

I hope you learn the Hebrew and Greek.

In His Name,

charlesj

That is a very beautiful song. To be able to listen to something that has been sung many years before us is really amazing. The chorus is very beautiful.

Learning either is a goal in itself.