Kolasis - William Barclay
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Dear Learner,
You are denying what God's Word teaches in many, many places. Every believer after being called out from the world will experience the apostate church. There is no avoiding it. All the major and minor doctrines of the churches in the world are false. Some of those doctrines have some elements of truth but overall they are still false. The whole loaf of bread that a new believer consumes has leaven hidden in it. They do not know it because they are spiritually blind.
So why do you think you have never been in the apostate church? Are you smarter or wiser than the Apostles?
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Or maybe you think that the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares does not apply to you.
Matthew 13:24-30 & 36-40
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Here is a short summary of the meaning of the parable:
Mankind is the field in the world. When Christ comes to a person the first time, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit (what Paul received on the Damascus Road). This is when Christ plants His seed within them.
However, at the time Christ plants His seed within a person, Christ will leave them carnally minded & spiritually blind. As a result, they will not be able to understand the truth of God’s Word (Mark 8:21-25, Mat 12:43-45)). Christ, the Word of God, will remain veiled from their understanding.
Soon after a believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, Satan will also come to them. When he comes, he will come to them at night (represents their time of spiritual blindness) and will likewise plant his seed within them (spirit of anti-Christ). This event will result in the Abomination of Desolation within the believer (God’s Temple). When Satan’s seed grows into a Tare (Man of Sin), it will be ready for the judgment of Christ (burned by fire).
As a result of both the child of God (Wheat) and the child of the Devil (Tare) living within a believer, the believer will begin mixing faith (what a child of God walks by) with works (what a child of the Devil walks by). This mixture of faith and works will cause the believer to fall away because they cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24).
Note: Mixing faith with works is the sin that leads to death (1John 5:16).
After an Elect believer has fallen away from faith alone, they cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). Their only hope for salvation is for Christ to come to them a second time. Christ will do so when the Wheat is ready to be harvested. The time of the harvest is called the Second Coming of Christ when Christ gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is the same event that the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost and it is the same event Paul experienced after being blind and unable to eat or drink for three days in Damascus. This event is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
When Christ gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain, the believer’s spiritual blindness will be immediately healed. Now, for the first time, the Elect believer will be able to understand the truth of God’s Word. From the new knowledge that they received at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9), the Man of Sin will be revealed to them and quickly judged. This judgment is called the Day of the Lord/Thousand Years Reign. From this judgment, the Man of Sin will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearance (2Thes 2:8). This will complete the conversion event.
Joe
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Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare [explain] unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man [Jesus] shall send forth his angels, and theyshall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. KJV
Dear Truthnightmare,
Yes, when judgment falls on an Elect believer just after they have received the Latter Rain and have been "born again", Christ will remove the "chaff" from within them.
Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable (Lake of Fire).
Chaff represents the same thing as "all things that offend" (Mat 13:41) which the angels will gather (remove) from within the Elect believer.
This is the same event that these two verses below are teaching:
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
In verse 40, the phrase "two in the field" is actually ONE Elect believer (one flesh). The one taken from within the believer is the spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin. The one who remains is the Holy Spirit/child of God.
In verse 41, the "two women" represent the two spiritual natures within the Elect believer. The one taken is the Great Harlot and the one who remains is the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.
So where are they taken? Rev 19:20 answers that question:
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
After this judgment is complete, the believer will be a converted child of God.
If you are thinking that the "things that offend" are fallen away believers, you are mistaken. Christ teaches his truth using "spirit" words which apply spiritually to a single person. The spiritual happens within a believer and not without.
When a person has a carnal understanding of scripture, they will apply the teachings of Christ "outwardly" which is incorrect to do.
To be converted, a person must be "born again" by receiving the Holy Spirit and then judged to remove "all things that offend". This conversion event is spiritual and happens within a person. It cannot be seen with human eyes. This is how Christ creates a new child of God.
In other words, the marred vessel (carnal mankind) is destroyed but from that destruction, a new vessel (children of God) is created:
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
The verse below is talking about the spiritual destruction of the old vessel (mankind) which has been "condemned already" (John 3:18) because "all have sinned" (Rom 5:12):
Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (God's Word, truth) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is a spiritual covenant. Because it is, Christ will do 100% of the work of this covenant "within" a person. This is how a person is saved.
Joe
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Greetings…
You bring up some interesting points, hopefully I can respond with more of an exhaustive rebuttal later. Here is what I believe you might be over looking.
Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
Jesus said…..
Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."
The deception is the world being deceived into believing Satan/antichrist is the true messiah, and when the true Christ returns it He finds you worshiping another, you have committed spiritual adultery.
This is why Christ said….
Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
If a husband (Jesus) goes on a long trip, and returns and finds his wife breast feeding (giving sup) or pregnant… that means the wife is a whore (spiritually speaking) she has been deceived!
Look at he scripture you presented.
Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."
What did men do in the field? They worked, they are servants.
Matthew 24:41 "Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
What do women do at the mill? They work, they are servants.
So now everyone is working, and the boss decides to take a trip, but no one knows when He is returning.
Matthew 24:42 "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
The boss has left, and when He returns He better find you still working.
Matthew 24:44 "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."
When the boss finally returns…
Matthew 24:46 "Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing."
Blessed is the servant/worker that is still working when the boss returns.
Matthew 24:47 "Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods."
This worker is about to get a raise… lol
But what about the other workers that say the boss is taking to long, we have a new boss..I’m going on break and taking some days off?
Matthew 24:48 "But and if that if that evil servant shall say in his heart, "My Lord delayeth his coming";
Matthew 24:48 "But and if that if that evil servant shall say in his heart, "My Lord delayeth his coming";
Matthew 24:49 "And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;"
The real boss is going to show up when they are not at work and fire there butts… yea fire.
Matthew 24:50 "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,"
Matthew 24:51 "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Remember… Deception is the name of the game.
The wife was deceived into thinking that the false messiah was Jesus and had spiritual sex with him and got pregnant.
The workers were deceived into believing the false messiah has come and there is no need to work.
Eve was also deceived and literally let… I’ma stop there..
Perhaps something to consider bro, TTYL
Dear Truthnightmare,
The question that Christ answers about the "end of the age" in Matthew chapter 24 is His teaching about the spiritual events that led up to an Elect believer's moment of conversion. Those events are not carnal events which happen out in the world at the literal end of this present age. The events are re-occurring spiritual events that happen within each of the Elect before they die.
Paul teaches with the same "spirit" words as Christ does. Here is what Paul says about the end of the age:
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
During the lifetime of each Elect person since the Apostles were first converted on the Day of Pentecost, the "ends of the ages" have come upon each of them. This was their moment of conversion when the old vessel was destroyed and the new vessel was created.
I have a full teaching about Matthew chapter 24 on my website www.greatmysteryofchrist.com - it is the paper entitled "S. ENDTIME PROPHECY MATTHEW CHAPTER 24".
I would post it here but it is too long to do so. If you have any interest in truly understanding end-time prophecy, that paper is a good place to start.
Joe
Joe, it is very easy, when I pray, I ask both the Holy Spirit and Jesus to pray with me. Also, one need only pray for wisdom. I am also the adminstrated leader of Medical Home Churches.
What is the Latter Rain Movement? | GotQuestions.org
What is the Latter Rain Movement? Will there be an outpouring of miraculous spiritual gifts as the end times approach?
www.gotquestions.org
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Let’s start with your first premise… and look at a few verses in no particular order.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Is this a spiritual event? When you see…
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Are these wars spiritual events?
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Where the days of Noah spiritual events?
Latter Rain Movement - religious cults, sects and movements
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Copyright © 2010-2016 by Dr. Mike Johnston All rights reserved PMI Center for Biblical Studies POB 177 Battle Creek, MI 49016-0177 We use only the Authorized King James Version of the…
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Documented Evidence: The False and Sociologically Cultic Teachings of Morning Star International Church, Department of Christian Defense
Dear Justyn Martyr, Introduction First, thank you for your response to our summery of MSI (read it here). I will try to respond to your concerns
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Latter Rain movement – Discernment Ministries International
Posts about Latter Rain movement written by Discernment Ministries International
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What Michael Brown is hiding from his audience (Part 5): Michael Brown’s New Order of the Latter Rain roots…
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Further connection of the New Order of the Latter Rain to the FGBMFI.
We look at another work that explores the connection of the New Order of the Latter Rain to FGBMFI.
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FALSE TEACHERS LIST - FALSE PROPHETS EXPOSED / PROBLEMATIC PREACHERS - SO4J
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Is this where you are coming from???
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand what you mean by the words in bold, but I’m sure you pray for people, as you were told to do so.
James 1:5
Do any of you need wisdom? Ask God for it. He is generous and enjoys giving to everyone. So he will give you wisdom.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: wisdom
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
One of my favorite books….James 1:5
Do any of you need wisdom? Ask God for it. He is generous and enjoys giving to everyone. So he will give you wisdom.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: wisdom
www.biblegateway.com
Proverbs 4:7 “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.”
Dear Learner,What is the Latter Rain Movement? | GotQuestions.org
What is the Latter Rain Movement? Will there be an outpouring of miraculous spiritual gifts as the end times approach?www.gotquestions.org
The Latter Rain movement is just another false teaching of the apostate church. It has nothing to do with the Early and Latter Rain teaching in scripture.
This verse applies:
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The "signs and wonders" within the apostate church are coming from the spirit of anti-Christ and not the Holy Spirit. This is certainly true of the "signs and wonders" of the Latter Rain movement.
This scripture also applies:
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The second beast of Rev 13 is a symbol for the spirit of anti-Christ. The first beast is a symbol for a fallen away believer who has the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. The first beast is also called a "man of sin". The 10 crowns on the head of the first beast represents Satan's rulership over the thoughts and beliefs of the man of sin.
Also, the first beast is said to have a deadly head wound by a sword. The sword is a symbol for the Word of God who is Christ.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
When a unbeliever receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and is called out from the world, Christ delivers a blow to their head because He will become the person's new head.
This verse applies:
Col 1:18 And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
But because the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" (Deu 32:2, Job 37:6 & Joel 2:23), Satan will win the spiritual war within the believer between the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ.
Rev 11:7 And when they (the Two Witnesses, a symbol for all the Elect) shall have finished their testimony, the beast (Satan) that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
When the believer is "killed" (loses their salvation), the deadly wound to their head by the sword of Christ is healed. Now Satan becomes the head of the believer who has become a man of sin/first beast.
Joe
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
The first beast…
Revelation 13:2 "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
You believe the fallen believer is like a leopard, with feet like a bear?
I have to disagree with this assertion.
Dear Truthnightmare,Let’s start with your first premise… and look at a few verses in no particular order.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Is this a spiritual event? When you see…
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Are these wars spiritual events?
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Where the days of Noah spiritual events?
You asked:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
Is this a spiritual event? When you see…
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Are these wars spiritual events?
Yes, the Abomination of Desolation and the wars are spiritual and they happen within a believer.
Under the New Covenant, a believer becomes the temple of God after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit. But when the spirit of anti-Christ enters the believer, a spiritual war will develop between the two.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in measure (a small amount), the child of God within the believer will lose the spiritual war. This will cause the believer to "fall away" and become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when a believer becomes a man of sin/Seven Headed beast (Rev 13).
Please read my last post above. I present a little more on this subject there.
You said:
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Where the days of Noah spiritual events?
No. All the events of the Old Testament were actual physical events. But as Paul says, those events are "types" which teach spiritual truths that are fulfilled under the New Covenant.
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them (this includes Noah) as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
The reason Christ mentions Noah in Mat 24 is because the story of Noah is a type for how Christ spiritually converts his Elect.
When Noah received his commission to build the ark, that event represented the Early Rain of the Spirit when a believer is called out from the world. The work of building the ark represents the time when a believer will "work" for his salvation rather than trust Christ to do all the work (faith). When Noah and his family (eight people; eight is the number for a new spiritual condition) entered the ark, it represented when a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit and when they enter into the rest of Christ. The ark represents Christ who will protect the believer during their time of judgment. In other words, the believer will not experience wrath during their time of judgment. The flood represents the judgment of the believer which will destroy the spirit of anti-Christ and the believer's worsened carnal nature (the world). After the flood ends, all that will remain is the new child of God in the ark (Christ).
The story of Lot teaches the same conversion event and that is why Christ also mentions him. Lot's wife represents Lot's carnal nature and that is why she is destroyed.
Joe
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Dear Truthnightmare,
The bear, the lion, and the leopard are "spirit" words (symbols) which represent Satan.
Paul said this:
1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
To understand the spiritual symbols used in scripture, Paul says to compare them with how they are used elsewhere in scripture. We are not to look out into this physical world for understanding but only to God's Word. When we do this with the spirit words bear, lion and leopard, we find that they represent Satan.
Joe
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