Kolasis - William Barclay

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FaithWillDo

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TextOriginal 1830 Edition, Book of MormonEditions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978
Title page
Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work​
Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work​
Title page
now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men...​
now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men...​
1 Ne 13:40
the lamb of God is the Eternal Father​
the lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father​
1Nephi 11:21
the Eternal Father​
son of the Eternal Father​
1 Nephi 11:32
the Everlasting God​
son of the Everlasting God​
1 Nephi 20:1
words added​
or out of the waters of Baptism​
2 Nephi 12:9
the mean man boweth down​
the mean man boweth not down​
Alma 29:4
Yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable​
words deleted​
Alma 37:21,24
directors​
Interpreters​
Alma 30:16
it is the effects of a phrensied mind​
it is the effect of a frenzied mind​
Throughout B of M
now there was seven churches​
now there were seven churches​
Throughout B of M
there were no blood to shed​
there was no blood to shed​
Throughout B of M
there is two churches​
there are two churches​
Throughout B of M
and also much horses​
and also many horses​
Throughout B of M
these things had not ought to be​
these things ought not to be​
Throughout B of M
as I was a journeying​
as I was journeying ("a" removed)​
Throughout B of M
They did prepare for to meet them​
They did prepare to meet them ("for" removed)​
Throughout B of M
some have arrested the scriptures​
some have wrested the scriptures​
Throughout B of M
when they had arriven​
when they had arrived​
Throughout B of M
having no respects to persons​
having no respect to persons ("s" removed)​
Throughout B of M
they had fell into great errors​
they had fallen into great errors​
Throughout B of M
which was wrote upon the plates​
which was written upon the plates​
Throughout B of M
they were exceeding fraid​
they were exceedingly afraid​
Throughout B of M
they had began to possess the land​
they had begun to possess the land​
Throughout B of M
this they done that they might provide food​
this they did that they might provide food​
Alma 23:1
nor neither of their brethren​
nor either of their brethren​
Mosiah 21:28; Ether 4:1
king Benjamin​
Mosiah (Benjamin was dead at this time)​
1 Nephi 12:18
Jesus Christ
Messiah (Jesus had not yet been revealed to the Nephites)​
1 Nephi 20:1
come forth out of the waters of Judah
or out of the waters of baptism (these words added after "Judah"​
2 Nephi 16:2
seraphims
seraphim (verse copied from older copy of KJV which made a gramatical error)​
Dear Learner,
I'm not sure why you made this post. Are you arguing that the Mormon church is different and is the true church?
Joe
 
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The Learner

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Dear Learner,
Explain why there is no unity in all those churches?

John 17:22 “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

And explain why being in the "many" is the good place to be?

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And explain all the suffering and death over the past 1,800 years that has been caused by those same churches?

These churches are Satan's churches and Christ does not know them.

Joe
Hi Joe, the number 2,000 is an exageration based on an encylopedia where they used a social definition of denomination. If you look in Mead's Handbook of denominations, there is not that many. I never heard of anyone referring to santa's churches(pun intended). :cool:
 

The Learner

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FaithWillDo

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Hi Joe, the number 2,000 is an exageration based on an encylopedia where they used a social definition of denomination. If you look in Mead's Handbook of denominations, there is not that many. I never heard of anyone referring to santa's churches(pun intended). :cool:
Dear Learner,
2,000 is an approximation I've seen before. Whether the number is 1,000 or 2,000, it makes little difference. There is no unity in the churches that exist in this world, nor do they display the true character of Christ. This should be very concerning to those who remain in them.

The true church, which consists of converted Elect believers, does has unity and it does display the true character of Christ. However, this world does not know them:

1John 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Joe
 
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FaithWillDo

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St. SteVen

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No way are LDS Christians.
What is a Christian?
Do they really fall outside the definition?

No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

I had a neighbor in a duplex I was living in that was LDS.
He invited me to a chili feed at their church. The chili was good.
You would never know these folks were Mormons.
Behaved like any other Christians at a chili feed.

And my neighbor was a good guy. I really liked him.
He brought home a window air conditioner from a garage sale
to install in our upstairs unit that cooled the whole house.
He was always thoughtful like that.

A couple of their elders visited me a few times.
They gave me a Book of Mormon.
The visits stopped when they realized I was not a good prospect.

One of the LDS Elders was very passionate about what they believed.
I remember the enthusiasm he had for their narrative. Noteworthy.

/
 

St. SteVen

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What is a Christian?
Do they really fall outside the definition?

No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.
@The Learner
It concerns me, the amount of energy we expend trying to figure out "who is in" and "who is out".
Tribalism. Anyone outside of our little tribe is viewed as the enemy.
Always looking for what might be wrong with others.

/
 
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FaithWillDo

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What is a Christian?
Do they really fall outside the definition?

No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

I had a neighbor in a duplex I was living in that was LDS.
He invited me to a chili feed at their church. The chili was good.
You would never know these folks were Mormons.
Behaved like any other Christians at a chili feed.

And my neighbor was a good guy. I really liked him.
He brought home a window air conditioner from a garage sale
to install in our upstairs unit that cooled the whole house.
He was always thoughtful like that.

A couple of their elders visited me a few times.
They gave me a Book of Mormon.
The visits stopped when they realized I was not a good prospect.

One of the LDS Elders was very passionate about what they believed.
I remember the enthusiasm he had for their narrative. Noteworthy.

/
Dear St. Steven,
You said:
No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

This statement is absolutely untrue. I find it hard to believe that any believer would even make such a claim.

"Doctrine" is what a believer accepts as truth.

Jesus Christ is truth:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In other words, no one comes to the Father except by truth.

Even the Holy Spirit is said to be the Spirit of Truth:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

For a believer to be "sanctified, they must have the truth:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

How can a believer claim to be "in Christ" if they do not know the truth?

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Truth is what sets us free from the Law of Sin and Death.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Truth is vital to a person's salvation. Without the truth, they cannot be saved.

After a new believer falls away, it is truth that destroys the "man of sin" who they became under the influence of Satan:

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The brightness of Christ's coming is referring to when a fallen away believer has finally been given "eyes that can see" the truth of Christ. It is from that truth that the Man of Sin (an apostate believer) is destroyed. Without truth, a person simply cannot be saved.

The apostate church is full of spiritually blind believers who have "perished". They have perished because do not know the truth but have accepted the false doctrines of Satan. They are in such "outer darkness" (total spiritual blindness) that they do not even have a love for the truth. If they did, they would be willing to "give up all" in order to obtain truth (the treasure of God):

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Christ's is not talking about material possessions with the young man. Christ is talking about the truth of God. The possessions of the young man represent his carnal beliefs which are founded upon the Law (man's works). Christ tells the young man to "sell" (rid yourself) his possessions and follow Him (Truth). If the young man would do this, he would have "treasure in heaven" (the truth of God).

Since the apostate church does not have a love for the truth, they, like the young man, are not willing "sell" their beliefs so that they can find the truth. Without truth, a person cannot be made perfect (converted and saved).

This parable teaches the same message:

Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Christ is the "one pearl of great price". In this instance, Christ is representing "truth". And like the young man was told, we must sell all our carnal beliefs to purchase this one pearl.

Also, look at what scripture says about the gates to the Kingdom of Heaven:

Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven without truth (the one pearl) and that is why a pearl is found on each of the twelve gates. The number 12 is a symbol for the Kingdom of Heaven.

I could go on and on about the importance of truth. Without it, a person simply cannot be saved. You really need to reconsider the statement you made above.

Joe
 
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St. SteVen

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In other words, no one comes to the Father except by truth.
You are substituting Christ with man-made doctrine. What you call "truth".

John 14:6 NIV
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.

/
 
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St. SteVen

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Dear St. Steven,
You said:
No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

This statement is absolutely untrue. I find it hard to believe that any believer would even make such a claim.

"Doctrine" is what a believer accepts as truth.
Is your "truth" the same as Catholic truth?
Is your "truth" the same as Baptist truth?
Is your "truth" the same as Lutheran truth?
Is your "truth" the same as Pentecostal truth?

Each doctrinal set differs, depending on the Denomination.
How can you claim that doctrine is truth? Does truth differ?

/
 

FaithWillDo

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You are substituting Christ with man-made doctrine. What you call "truth".

John 14:6 NIV
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.

/
Dear St. Steven,
You said:
You are substituting Christ with man-made doctrine. What you call "truth".

How did you come to that conclusion from what I wrote? That is not what I stated at all.

The truth of God is hidden from the churches of the world and that is why they are deceived by Satan. None of their doctrines are true and they are still approaching Christ by their own "works". Because they are, they are still in bondage to sin and are under the Law. When a fallen away believer in the apostate church is resurrected, they will be separated like goats from sheep (the Elect). At that time, Christ will say to them "I never knew you". They will then be cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law along with the unbelievers.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.


The doctrines taught by God's Word is truth and only that truth will set a person free. Finding that truth is not easy and it is reserved only for "sons" who have been weaned from milk (the converted Elect).

Prov 2:1 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

In one of the apostate churches I used to attend prior to my conversion, they had a fellowship program with other denominations (including the Catholic church) because, like you, they did not believe that differences in doctrines was all that important. They said that we are all brothers in Christ doing our best to follow Him (works based faith) and therefore, we need to show our unity to the world.

But Paul said this to the unconverted Corinthian church:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another; I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

If you look at the churches of the world, they are also divided (even within themselves). There is no unity of beliefs. They are carnal and spiritually blind. They have not been weaned from the milk, and in fact, they (like the Corinthian church) are not even able to consume the milk of the Word. Because they are not converted, they have fallen backward and have been broken, and snared, and taken by Satan. This is the apostasy that Paul was told would soon come upon the church after his death:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Paul warned the churches about what was soon to befall them for three years, night and day with tears. This knowledge of what was coming to the churches was very distressing to Paul because he loved them and had birthed them. Now, Paul was being told that they would soon "fall away" and abandon the truth that He had been teaching them. But like all converted believers, I'm sure Paul ultimately said "not my will, but thy will be done". Nothing has changed in the churches since that time.

Joe
 
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St. SteVen

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First you wrote this:
Dear St. Steven,
You said:
No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

This statement is absolutely untrue. I find it hard to believe that any believer would even make such a claim.

"Doctrine" is what a believer accepts as truth.
Then you wrote this.
The truth of God is hidden from the churches of the world and that is why they are deceived by Satan. None of their doctrines are true...
?????

You objected when I wrote that no one is saved by doctrine.
Now you declare of the churches: "None of their doctrines are true..."

/
 
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FaithWillDo

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First you wrote this:

Then you wrote this.

?????

You objected when I wrote that no one is saved by doctrine.
Now you declare of the churches: "None of their doctrines are true..."

/
Dear St. Steven,
That is right and I stand by those comments.

The doctrines of Christ as taught in God's Word are true and that truth will save us.

John 17:7 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


The doctrines of the apostate church are false and those lies cannot save us.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Only after a believer is converted will they be able to know the difference between the doctrines of Christ and the doctrines of Satan.

Because Satan's doctrines are so deceptive, the believers in the apostate church believe that they are seeing the truth of God just as the Pharisees believed that they could see it.

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

And just like the Pharisees, the sins of the believers in the apostate church remain.

And just like the Pharisees, the believers in the apostate church are also said to be the children of the devil:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

But with the believers in the apostate church, they have been made an even worse child of the devil (worse than the first, Mat 12:43-45) by the spirit of anti-Christ.

Because Satan is transformed into an "angel of light" (2Cor 11:14), the believers in the apostate church do not know that they are following "another Jesus" and "another gospel". Satan's deceptions are too powerful for an unconverted believer to withstand.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Because Satan will deceive 100% of all new believers shortly after Christ gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit, it is necessary for Christ to come a second time to His Elect. With His second coming, Christ will heal the Elect believer's spiritual blindness so that they can finally know the truth. It is only at that time that they will come out from Satan's deceptions.

If a person has not seen the Abomination of Desolation within themselves, they are still lost and and under the deceptions of Satan.

That is what I stated in my posts and that is what is supported by God's Word.

Joe
 

The Learner

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Dear Learner,
2,000 is an approximation I've seen before. Whether the number is 1,000 or 2,000, it makes little difference. There is no unity in the churches that exist in this world, nor do they display the true character of Christ. This should be very concerning to those who remain in them.

The true church, which consists of converted Elect believers, does has unity and it does display the true character of Christ. However, this world does not know them:

1John 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Joe
Ok Joe, I never been in an apostate church. As we know most churches agree on Major Doctrines.
There is a saying something like on Majors agreement, on minors charity.
 

The Learner

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Yes, many lDS are nice people. Except for the ones who attacked me at Lowery AFB with bats.
Theology of God and who Jesus is matters big time. Check out this book online Mormon Doctrine 1966 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Just a few quotes:
"(God As a Spirit ) See APOSTASY, CREEDS, GOD. False creeds teach that God is a spirit essence that fills the immensity of space and is everywhere and nowhere in particular present. In a vain attempt to support this doctrine, formulated by councils in the early days of the great apostasy, it is common for apologists to point to the statement in the King James Bible which says, "God is a Spirit." (John 4:22-24.) The fact is that this passage is mistranslated; instead, the correct statement, quoted in context reads: "The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him. For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth." (Inspired Version, John 4:25-26.) However, it is true that God may be said to be a Spirit, but this statement must be understood to mean that he is a Spirit in the same sense that a resurrected man is a spirit. When the apostles, beholding the resurrected Lord, "were terrified and affrighted and supposed that they had seen a spirit" (Luke 24:36-43), there was not the slightest intimation that the "spirit" was a vaporous nothingness that filled immensity. Spirits are personages. God the Father is a glorified and perfected Man, a personage of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) in which tangible body an eternal spirit is housed. It is in this sense that God is a Spirit. Godhead (Godhead ) See CHRIST, FATHER IN HEAVEN, GOD, GODHOOD, HOLY GHOST, PLURALITY OF GODS. Three glorified, exalted, and perfected personages comprise the Godhead or supreme presidency of the universe. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 1-55.) They are: God the Father; God the Son; God the Holy Ghost. (First Article of Faith.) "Everlasting covenant was made between three personages" the Prophet said, "before the organization of this earth, and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth; these personages according to Abraham's record, are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the witness or Testator." (Teachings, p. 190.) Though each God in the Godhead is a personage separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are "one God" (Testimony of Three Witnesses in Book of Mormon), meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fulness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgment, mercy, and faith. Accordingly they all think, act, speak, and are alike in all things; and yet they are three separate and distinct entities. Each occupies space and is and can be in but one place at one time, but each has power and influence that is everywhere present.
 

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The oneness of the Gods is the same unity that should exist among the saints. (John 17; 3 Ne. 28:10-11.) Perhaps no better statement defining the Godhead and showing the relationship of its members to each other has been written in this dispensation than that given by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Lectures on 229 Faith. "There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme, power over all things, by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible, whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son - the Father being a personage of spirit [meaning that he has a spiritual body which by revealed definition is a resurrected body of flesh and bones (1 Cor. 15:44-45; D. & C. 88:27)], glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness; the Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man or being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image; he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh, and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer; or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. "But, notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin, showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin; and also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. "And he being the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father, possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one; or, in other words these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme, power over all things; by whom all things were created and made that were created and made, and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one; the Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power, and fulness - filling all in all; the Son being filled with the fulness of the mind, glory, and power; or, in other words, the spirit, glory, and power, of the Father, possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom, sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father, mediator for man, being filled with the fulness of the mind of the Father; or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father, which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments. "And all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all; being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one." (Lectures on Faith, pp. 50-51.) Godhood (Godhood ) See CELESTIAL MARRIAGE, CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, DAUGHTERS OF GOD, ETERNAL LIFE, ETERNAL LIVES, EXALTATION, FULNESS OF THE FATHER, JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST, PLURALITY OF GODS, SALVATION, SONS OF GOD. That exaltation which the saints of all ages have so devoutly sought is godhood itself. Godhood is to have the character, possess the attributes, and enjoy the perfections which the Father has. It is to do what he does, have the powers resident in him, and live as he lives, having eternal increase. (D. & C. 132:17-20, 37.) It is to know him in the full and complete sense, and no one can fully know God except another exalted personage who is like him in all respects. Those attaining the supreme height are sons of God (D. & C. 76:50-60); they receive the fulness of the Father and find membership in the Church of the Firstborn (D. & C. 93:17-22); they are joint-heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:14-18), inheriting with him all that the Father hath. (D. & C. 84:33-51.) They are gods. (Ps. 82:1, 6; John 10:34-36; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 35-79; Gospel Kingdom, pp. 27-30.) Joseph Smith said: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God 230 himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an
earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it
from the Bible.
"Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God and you have got to learn how to be
gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely,
by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace,
from exaltation to exaltation
, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in
everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. . . . [Such
persons are] heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the
same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of
eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." (Teachings, pp. 345-347.) Again: "Every man
who reigns in celestial glory is a god to his dominions." (Teachings, p. 374)


Bottom Line the gods of LDS, mormonism had a begining and are exhaulted human beings. They came into existence as spirit children of a Mother & Father god. That is not the G_d of the Bible, nor the G_d of historical Christianity. Poke around in that book on different topics to see how far LDS doctrines are. Jane early on posted a link to a Mormon Missionary Manual. You will see the problems there too. Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service
 

The Learner

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quotes from Jane's source

God Is Our Loving Heavenly Father​

God is our Heavenly Father. We are His children. He has a body of flesh and bone that is glorified and perfected.
...
What is the nature of God the Father and Jesus Christ?


...

Under the direction of the Father, Jesus Christ created the earth as a place for us to live and gain experience. In order to progress and become like God, each of us had to obtain a body and be tested during a time of probation on the earth. While on the earth we are out of God’s physical presence. We do not remember our premortal life. We must walk by faith rather than by sight.
...
The celestial kingdom has three heavens or degrees (see Doctrine and Covenants 131:1), and only those who have an eternal marriage, sealed by the Holy Spirit, can enter into the highest, which is exaltation (see Doctrine and Covenants 131:2). They will live in God’s presence, become like Him, and receive a fulness of joy.

Those in the celestial kingdom who do not have an eternal marriage can enter into another “heaven” or “degree” in the celestial kingdom, but in that place they are ministering angels who “remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, … angels of God forever and ever” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:17; see also Doctrine and Covenants 131:4; Russell M. Nelson, “Celestial Marriage,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2008, 92).

Terrestrial Kingdom
People who do not accept the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ in this life or in the world to come but live honorable lives will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom. This kingdom is compared to the glory of the moon (see Doctrine and Covenants 76:71–80).

Telestial Kingdom
Those who continued in their sins and did not repent in this life or accept the gospel in the world to come will receive their reward in the lowest kingdom, which is called the telestial kingdom. This kingdom is compared to the glory of the stars (see Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–86).
....
Fall (of Adam and Eve): When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they became mortal—that is, subject to sin and death. Adam became the “first flesh” upon the earth (Moses 3:7). Latter-day revelation makes clear that the Fall is a blessing and that Adam and Eve should be honored as the first parents of all mankind.
...
  • Premortal life (premortal existence; pre-earth life): As spirit children of our Father in Heaven, we lived in His presence before we were born on this earth. In premortal life we did not have physical bodies.

...

Salvation: To be saved from physical and spiritual death. “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression; … that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (Articles of Faith 1:2–3).https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng

As you can see from Janes source, their god is not the real G_d, just one of many gods.
 

The Learner

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@The Learner
It concerns me, the amount of energy we expend trying to figure out "who is in" and "who is out".
Tribalism. Anyone outside of our little tribe is viewed as the enemy.
Always looking for what might be wrong with others.

/
friend, Peter tells us to test all things. We are not to pray to see if the BOM is from G_d. We are to compare Mormon teachings on major doctrine and the Bible which is G_d's only true word.
 

The Learner

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Dear St. Steven,
You said:
No one is saved by doctrine. Good or bad.

This statement is absolutely untrue. I find it hard to believe that any believer would even make such a claim.

"Doctrine" is what a believer accepts as truth.

Jesus Christ is truth:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In other words, no one comes to the Father except by truth.

Even the Holy Spirit is said to be the Spirit of Truth:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

For a believer to be "sanctified, they must have the truth:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

How can a believer claim to be "in Christ" if they do not know the truth?

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Truth is what sets us free from the Law of Sin and Death.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Truth is vital to a person's salvation. Without the truth, they cannot be saved.

After a new believer falls away, it is truth that destroys the "man of sin" who they became under the influence of Satan:

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The brightness of Christ's coming is referring to when a fallen away believer has finally been given "eyes that can see" the truth of Christ. It is from that truth that the Man of Sin (an apostate believer) is destroyed. Without truth, a person simply cannot be saved.

The apostate church is full of spiritually blind believers who have "perished". They have perished because do not know the truth but have accepted the false doctrines of Satan. They are in such "outer darkness" (total spiritual blindness) that they do not even have a love for the truth. If they did, they would be willing to "give up all" in order to obtain truth (the treasure of God):

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Christ's is not talking about material possessions with the young man. Christ is talking about the truth of God. The possessions of the young man represent his carnal beliefs which are founded upon the Law (man's works). Christ tells the young man to "sell" (rid yourself) his possessions and follow Him (Truth). If the young man would do this, he would have "treasure in heaven" (the truth of God).

Since the apostate church does not have a love for the truth, they, like the young man, are not willing "sell" their beliefs so that they can find the truth. Without truth, a person cannot be made perfect (converted and saved).

This parable teaches the same message:

Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Christ is the "one pearl of great price". In this instance, Christ is representing "truth". And like the young man was told, we must sell all our carnal beliefs to purchase this one pearl.

Also, look at what scripture says about the gates to the Kingdom of Heaven:

Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven without truth (the one pearl) and that is why a pearl is found on each of the twelve gates. The number 12 is a symbol for the Kingdom of Heaven.

I could go on and on about the importance of truth. Without it, a person simply cannot be saved. You really need to reconsider the statement you made above.

Joe
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