Last Day

[afaithfulone4u]

Trump,

I am a Christian who believes Jesus does not lie.

He told the disciples he would return in their generation.

He told the scribes and Pharisees that judgment would come upon their generation.

He said he had come to fulfill all that had been written about him. (That would be all prophecy in the Old Testament, and includes Daniel's prophecy).

Are these scriptures true, or do we consider an untruth has been told and the bible can not be believed?

Hello Rocky,
Jesus said WHEN you see the fig tree(Israel) beginning to grow KNOW that this generation that it is growing in shall not pass away till all things be fulfilled. Israel reborn 1948 + 70 a generation=2018 Take a look at Psalms 111-118 2011-2018 7yrs with 2014 & 2015 in the middle where the Blood moons and Dark Suns will be. The Feast of Purim where the(spiritual) Jews are saved and the ungodly 10UN that come against Israel shall be destroyed instead is on the 14th & 15th of their month.. as is the Feast of Passover(Our sacrificial Lamb to die in our place)... and the Feast of Tabernacles(changed in the twinkling of an eye)

Matt 24:32-35
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
KJV

Unless the Last Day has already happened then those found in the book of life can not be awakened.

Dan 12:1-4
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro{TRAVEL EVEN TO SPACE}, and knowledge{TECHNOLOGY} shall be increased.
KJV
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

How could every eye now be able to see Christ's return? SATELITE which they did not have in 70 ad.

I want to add something that we tend to lose sight of. The Word of God is a two-edged sWord for it has two meanings. One is for the fleshly ears and pertains to earthly Jerusalem and one is for the spiritual ears and pertains to spiritual Jerusalem and I do believe that it has meaning for both. Just as the natural unbelieving Jews are awaiting to build a temple in earthly Jerusalem.. yet the true temple is a spiritual house built not by men's hands but by God and is being built every day till the end comes.
The Bible tells us that the temple built by men's hands that was destroyed in 70 ad was destroyed so that the temple which is Christ's body could take precedence. So there was MUCH work still to be done in 70 ad, as the True temple has been in labour being Raised up unto holiness.
Heb 9:6-12
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
KJV

2 Cor 5:1-5
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
KJV

We must PUT ON CHRIST aka wrapped in the Word of God so that we will not be found naked/sinful and shamed by our nakedness when God who sees to our inner core and from who's eyes nothing is hidden will find no fault in us.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

And I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.

The bottomless pit is the abode of Tartarus or the abode of fallen angels. These creatures came out of the smoke of the bottomless pit and they had an angelic king over them.
How would a Chinese soldier know who does, and does not, have the seal of God in their foreheads? Why would a 200 million man army have to be told to not hurt the vegetation?

And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Verse 7-10 describes these locust. Their description isn't like any Chinese soldier, or any soldier on planet earth that I know of!

And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men.
And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as [the teeth] of lions.
And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.

Another question...
Why would an angel from the bottomless pit be in charge of a 200 million man Chinese army?

And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.
And actually, for those of us who have a sensible hermeneutic, the text proves these are angels! LOGIC....It can be such a simple virtue in understanding God's Word!

 

[iamlamad]

Care to put a scripture to this private interpretation Lamad?_______.
It appears you do not know what the wedding supper is.[ Verse?]
Nor do you know WHEN the wedding supper is.[Verse]
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Compare scripture with scripture, not peoples dreams.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

The CONTEXT is after the tribulation ,Rocky.
I just showed you the context.
But you bleat your party line like a good goyim.
Those scriptures you posted are set in a strict Post tribulation occurrence.
After the tribulation of those days.
So when Jerusalem was destroyed, how come there were no heavenly signs.
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Sun Darkened, Moon not giving her light, Was there a appearing of Jesus coming? Matthew twenty-four verse thirty.
See that Rocky?
Without a proper biblical context, you end up believing a lie, because you love not the word of God which is the truth, but you love the words of opinions of men.
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To use the PROPER verse for your assertion would be Matthew twenty-four verse Two, right? NOT the post tribulation verses in the thirties.
Rightly dividing the word of truth, is paramount, Rocky.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Lamad had written:
..OF COURSE Jesus comes right after the 7th vial that ends the "trib" or 70th week, but no IMMEDIATELY after; there will be TIME for the wedding and supper in heaven BEFORE He gets on the white horse. No pretribber denies this! We BELIEVE this.

This was JOHN's Interpretation! Perhaps you need to read it again....Please follow carefully...

Rev 16
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Note carefully, "it is done." Other translations say "it is finished." This is the end of the 70th week, or "trib" as some say.

Rev. 17-18: a close up view of the destruction that happens at the 7th vial.

Rev. 19
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Notice the scene is in HEAVEN.

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Babylon was judged at the 7th vial. This is speaking about it.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

The four and twenty elders are around the throne IN HEAVEN.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

STill in HEAVEN

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Now it is time for the marriage. The wife (bride) is ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

She was ready because she was wearing the robe of righteousness of Jesus Christ.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The marriage is over and it is supper time! Understand, this is just the very briefest of sketches, just enough so we see that the marriage and supper happen, and WHEN they happen.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse...

Marriage is OVER, supper is OVER. Jesus is returning to earth, for the battle of Armageddon.

Plain and simple. If you cannot believe what John wrote, you are in trouble.

Lamad

easy! Look at the verses I posted. It shows something that you may not have noticed.
Does the LORD come once, or three times in the end?
How often does Babylon fall?
How many times does the sun, moon and stars withdraw their shining? three times?
Or is it all just once with several renditions of the same occurrence?
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Revelation six shows a great earthquake, the sun moon and stars withdrawing their light
Thy great wrath IS come.
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Revelation eleven shows a great earthquake and thy wrath IS come.
Revelation sixteen shows a great earthquake and God's wrath.
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Is this three accounts of separate quakes or is it thee accounts of the same great earthquake?
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Then we have the accounts of the fall of Babylon.
Revelation fourteen verse eight shows Babylon is fallen, is fallen followed by God's wrath.
Revelation sixteen also shows Babylon is fallen followed by God's wrath.
Revelation eighteen also shows Babylon is fallen and followed By God's wrath the plagues.
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See how easy it is when you read the Bible?
So tell me, is the fall of Babylon going to happen at least three times?
Or is this three separate accounts of the same occurrence?
Will God's wrath be poured out upon fallen Babylon three separate times?
Good grief! Give yer head a shake!
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O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou shouldest KEEP me secret,
until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a SET time, and remember me.
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT,
till my change comes.
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See that? Till my change comes is the resurrection. The change happens AT the resurrection.
And we all know that the resurrection is at the LAST DAY!
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

You make a straw man argument here? why?
I never said anything to that.
You are making a straw man argument out of your own opinions and assumptions.
I also believe we do not know the exact day nor the hour, but we can know the times and the seasons.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Matthew twenty-four verse thirty seven is clearly post trib. Look at verse twenty-one and then verse twenty-nine.
Unexpected for WHOM????
Sure was not NOAH. He was a building the ark and PREPARING for about 100 years.
THEY were eating....till the flood came and TOOK THEM all away!
We don't know the day nor the hour but we DO know it is post trib. Verse twenty-one and verse twenty-nine.
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But YE brethren are NOT in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. hello!
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Matthew twenty-four verse thirty-eight :You state everything is going along just fine.
In context, DURING the tribulation; verse twenty-one to twenty-eight etc. is not having things going along just fine.
Jesus did not say they were doing just fine, he was showing that life was yet going on despite the tribulation.
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Of course it is a surprise for the unbeliever. DUH!
Then your none biblical/contextual conclusion declares this conundrum.


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You use verse forty-four of chapter twenty-four.
Again in the context of AFTER the tribulation of those days...verse twenty-nine.
Definitely NOT pre-trib. And you know it!
You are now held accountable to the truth of God's pure word, Arnie.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Arnie stated:



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Jumping to assumptions are we?
All I said is that the Bible records 15 Apostles and 15 Tribes of Israel.
That is all.
It was just information. OK?
Here is more information.
All of the lists of the supposed twelve tribes of Israel are NEVER EVER the same.
Check it out! I did.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Are you serious?
I have to go for supper; but I will respond further.

Does the LORD come once, or three times in the end?

If we believe what we read on these threads, MANY times. But the truth is, He came once and died on the cross. He will come again in a time of peace and safety, FOR His church, before the 70th week begins, as seen in Rev. 7. This would be his SECOND coming. He comes again WITH His church, as seen in Rev. 19. This will be His THIRD coming, but John is not counting. If you think He comes at the 7th trumpet, as many do, you will be proven wrong. For SURE He does not come at Rev. 4:1.

How often does Babylon fall?

In the book of Revelation, Babylon falls TWICE, as in "is fallen is fallen". I am not sure why it is written like this. I don't know what it means. Perhaps one is the false religion of the Beast imposed upon the world, and the other is the physical destruction of Jerusalem.

How many times does the sun, moon and stars withdraw their shining? three times?

I haven't really counted. But the signs in the sun and moon happen twice: first as the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord, and again as the sign for Jesus coming on the white horse.

Or is it all just once with several renditions of the same occurrence?

Certainly and definitely NOT! The events in Revelation are written as history, as if already happened. And as history, they are written very chronologically.

Revelation six shows a great earthquake, the sun moon and stars withdrawing their light
Thy great wrath IS come.
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Revelation eleven shows a great earthquake and thy wrath IS come.
Revelation sixteen shows a great earthquake and God's wrath.
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Is this three accounts of separate quakes or is it thee accounts of the same great earthquake?

This is the warning for the start of the Day of the Lord. It only starts ONCE! God's wrath starts only ONCE. The earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising. The rapture will happen one instant after the dead in Christ rise. It is no mistake that John saw the church in heaven right after this. The great earthquake in Rev 11 does not really happen in Rev. 11, although it is written there. It is the earthquake that happens when the two witnesses rise up. The key is, WHEN do they rise? They begin their testimony 3 1/2 days before the abomination, testify for 1260 days - which takes them to 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial. Then they are killed and lay dead for 3 1/2 days, which takes them to the time of the 7th vial. The great earthquake when they arise is the VERY SAME earthquake as seen at the 7th vial. They rise with all the old Testament saints at the 7th vial. So these two earthquakes is the same earthquake. 11:4-11:13 is written as a parenthesis or as a side journey, not related to John's Chronology. His chronology would be the man of sin with his armies shows up in Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before the abomination: after all, he MUST get to Jerusalem for that is where the temple will be. A few seconds later (or perhaps minutes) the two witnesses show up. They come BECAUSE he came. Then, 3 1/2 days later, the man of sin does his abomination, and the 7th trumpet sounds in heaven to mark that event in heaven. That is the signal for Michael to go after Satan to cast Him down. Those living in Judea will flee. God's wrath begins at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment. It continues on through the week, and Jesus is still angry at the battle of Armageddon.

Then we have the accounts of the fall of Babylon.
Revelation fourteen verse eight shows Babylon is fallen, is fallen followed by God's wrath.
Revelation sixteen also shows Babylon is fallen followed by God's wrath.
Revelation eighteen also shows Babylon is fallen and followed By God's wrath the plagues.

How many times do you think a city can fall in a 3 1/2 year period of time? God's wath does NOT follow the destruction of Babylon. It started long before then. However, His wrath is certainly in the plagues. The great city of Jerusalem will be destroyed (along with all the citys of the world) at the 7th vial. It will happen ONCE. Chapters 17 and 18 are a close up view of the destruction of Babylon that happened at the 7th vial. Did you not notice that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy in itself, but there are many prophecies given in the book. When John writes "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" before the 7th vial, it is written as PROPHECY, speaking of an event still future. Nothing happens the the city of Jerusalem in the 14th chapter. Much of chapter 14 is written as prophecy; looking forward to future events. The harvests are a good example: they do not take place in the time frame of chapter 14. They are written as prophecy. Much of that happens at the battle of Armageddon.

O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou shouldest KEEP me secret...

Wow! Quote from the oldest book in the bible to explain the last book? is that good exegesis? We know now that Job was NOT "hidden in his grave," but his spirit went to paradise. When Jesus arose, he went to heaven. So he was not even kept secret. All the others in heaven (probably not many at that time) I am sure saw him. When does FATHER God's wrath end? I think it ends with the vials of His wrath. When will Job get His resurrection body? At the 7th vial, when all the Old Testament saints rise. So this IS after the Father's wrath. However, JESUS will have much wrath at the battle of Armageddon.

If a man die, shall he live again?

Abslolutely! In John 6, Jesus mentions the rising of the Old Testment saints several times. Daniel also mentions it. It will take place at the 7th vial, when the two witnesses are raised.

The change happens AT the resurrection. And we all know that the resurrection is at the LAST DAY!

The "last day" is the "day of the Lord" that includes much of the book of Revelation! There is no disagreement with the pretrib rapture and the resurrection of the Old Testament saints 7 years later. There cannot be, for that is exactly the way it will happen.

We don't know the day nor the hour but we DO know it is post trib. Verse twenty-one and verse twenty-nine.

Since Revelation is a much more complete writing of the events that are coming, while Matt 24 is a brief sketch, why not form your doctrine in Rev? it is SO EASY to see Jesus returning in chapter 19, AFTER the "trib" is finished. But what is "immediately" mean to God? First, the days are shortened, so they will not last the full 42 months, So we have some days, or weeks or months there. Then after the week ends Jesus is still in heaven marrying the bride, and having the supper, so that is MORE time added. So what is "immediately" mean to God? It means days, weeks and perhaps even months. But definitely not years. Can you see now why Jesus said no man will know the time?

Lamad