Latter Day Saints Site Falsely Teaches Works Salvation

[Jane_Doe22]

The odd thing that started the whole movement was when Smith claimed the angel Maroni showed him gold tablets hidden in a cave and containing sacred writings, and insured JS would recall all that was written on them.
Then when JS went into town afterward and reported to someone all that happened, he took them to that cave. And low and behold the tablets were gone.
That proved his story according to the person he'd brought along.

No evidence proved his story?
It was downhill from there as far as any chance of reason being relative to the teachings of JS.

Again: actual Mormon here: Joseph Smith ain't my Savior or Lord. Jesus Christ is. The proof of His divinity & mission is given by testimony of the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

Again: actual Mormon here: Joseph Smith ain't my Savior or Lord. Jesus Christ is. The proof of His divinity & mission is given by testimony of the Holy Spirit.

do you believe Jesus is God and that He and The Father are the same? the fact that Jesus stated that many times. What about the first 3 commandments. How can you believe that you will become a god, as there is only ONE God. The Holy Spirit would never testify against Himself but you claim that He is teaching and asking people to do works to be saved. If you could do it why did Christ Jesus die to take all sin? That would be pointless. I pray that you understand the God of the Bible. not the god that someone else is teaching you. There is only ONE God and He has revealed himself to the world. Judgement day will come and all who rely on anything or anyone but God in the name of Yeshua (Jesus) will endure His wrath. I ask you to read the Bible and not the book of Mormon.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

do you believe Jesus is God and that He and The Father are the same? the fact that Jesus stated that many times. What about the first 3 commandments. How can you believe that you will become a god, as there is only ONE God. The Holy Spirit would never testify against Himself but you claim that He is teaching and asking people to do works to be saved. If you could do it why did Christ Jesus die to take all sin? That would be pointless. I pray that you understand the God of the Bible. not the god that someone else is teaching you. There is only ONE God and He has revealed himself to the world. Judgement day will come and all who rely on anything or anyone but God in the name of Yeshua (Jesus) will endure His wrath. I ask you to read the Bible and not the book of Mormon.

There's only 1 God.

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. The divine Son of God to be more specific. He, the Father, and Spirit are 3 different divine persons. Like Christ doesn't pray to Himself, He prays to the Father. They are united as ONE God: on the exact same page about everything. One goodness, glory, mercy, justice, truth, light, etc.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. That is the foundation of everything. You can't "earn" your way to Heaven- that idea is downright laughably absurd. Real saving faith is not a whimsical "yeah, I believe" and then continue about your exact same sinful ways. Rather real saving involves the full person being reborn in Him, dedicating their entire heart/mind/might to Him out of love. That does include obeying the first 3 commandments. A saved person becomes one with God through Christ's atonement: pure white snow having been washed in His blood. Perfect even as He is. You never replace your Father or Savior.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Again: actual Mormon here: Joseph Smith ain't my Savior or Lord. Jesus Christ is. The proof of His divinity & mission is given by testimony of the Holy Spirit.

You responded to the wrong member. My post that you quoted has nothing to do with your reply.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

There's only 1 God.

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. The divine Son of God to be more specific. He, the Father, and Spirit are 3 different divine persons. Like Christ doesn't pray to Himself, He prays to the Father. They are united as ONE God: on the exact same page about everything. One goodness, glory, mercy, justice, truth, light, etc.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. That is the foundation of everything. You can't "earn" your way to Heaven- that idea is downright laughably absurd. Real saving faith is not a whimsical "yeah, I believe" and then continue about your exact same sinful ways. Rather real saving involves the full person being reborn in Him, dedicating their entire heart/mind/might to Him out of love. That does include obeying the first 3 commandments. A saved person becomes one with God through Christ's atonement: pure white snow having been washed in His blood. Perfect even as He is. You never replace your Father or Savior.

I didn't word my response correctly. We are in agreement. Jesus says The Father and I are one. We can't totally comprehend God and to say that we can, is a lie and prideful. Yes my understanding is God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they have always existed and one cannot exist without the other.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I didn't word my response correctly. We are in agreement. Jesus says The Father and I are one. We can't totally comprehend God and to say that we can, is a lie and prideful. Yes my understanding is God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they have always existed and one cannot exist without the other.

Totally agree with all of that. John 17 is one of my favorite chapters.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If anyone wants me to explain actual LDS Christian beliefs versus the popular misinformation, just let me know. Example: yes LDS Christian do actually believe Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. I have zero interest in proselytizing, giving or receiving.

 

[ButterflyJones]

If anyone wants me to explain actual LDS Christian beliefs versus the popular misinformation, just let me know. Example: yes LDS Christian do actually believe Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. I have zero interest in proselytizing, giving or receiving.

Your offer is contradicted by your closing remarks regarding proselytizing .

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Your offer is contradicted by your closing remarks regarding proselytizing .

I don't find explaining what I believe ("Yes Jesus is the Son of God") to be proselytizing. I totally acknowledge everyone's right here to believe what they believe and ain't going to lift a single finger to change that. You are all intelligent human beings whom can study and make decisions for yourself. If somebody isn't willing to show me that same respect and just wants to change what I believe (usually while completely misunderstanding what I actually believe), then I'm not interested in conversation. Respecting people's intelligence and right to make decisions is super important.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

If anyone wants me to explain actual LDS Christian beliefs versus the popular misinformation, just let me know. Example: yes LDS Christian do actually believe Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. I have zero interest in proselytizing, giving or receiving.

If you went and asked what the beliefs are for 100 people even in a Protestant faith you would get prob over 50 different answers. some believe in a water baptism as infant and other at conversion, some believe once saved always saved others don't, some believe in speaking in tongues proves salvations and some believe it is only a gift some have.

My experience with Mormons come from their mouth: They have said the Son and the The Father are not one, Jesus and Satan are brothers, that each person through works can become a god of their own planet, that only certain believers can lay hands on you and that you would be given the Holy Spirit and that is confirmed by speaking in tongues. Those alone are not true and The Holy Bible does not even hint to those ideas.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you went and asked what the beliefs are for 100 people even in a Protestant faith you would get prob over 50 different answers. some believe in a water baptism as infant and other at conversion, some believe once saved always saved others don't, some believe in speaking in tongues proves salvations and some believe it is only a gift some have.

Protestantism is indeed a diverse group. I personally find the Calvinism vs Arminianism differences to be the largest divide across all of extended Christendom.

My experience with Mormons come from their mouth: They have said the Son and the The Father are not one, Jesus and Satan are brothers, that each person through works can become a god of their own planet, that only certain believers can lay hands on you and that you would be given the Holy Spirit and that is confirmed by speaking in tongues. Those alone are not true and The Holy Bible does not even hint to those ideas.

Lots of things to touch here. I'll focus on the first one because it's first and very important.

The Father and Son are two different persons, 1 God. Christ doesn't pray to the Himself for example, He prays to the Father. Both LDS Christians and Protestants agree on this. Inter-faith misunderstandings are very common. One such misunderstanding is that LDS Christians often think "Creedal people think Christ and the Father are the same person", and then focus on teaching "no, the Father and Son aren't the same person", and it creates this whole cycle of perpetual misunderstanding.

That make sense?

 

[ButterflyJones]

It may at this point help to note there are different groups within Mormonism.
Not all Mormons are LDS but all LDS are Mormon.

Mormons - 10 Things to Know about the Church of Latter Day Saints

Read Mormons - 10 Things to Know about the Church of Latter Day Saints by Amanda Casanova and more articles about Cults and Other Religions and Wiki on Christianity.com

www.christianity.com

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It may at this ont help to note there are different groups within Mormonism.
Not all Mormons are LDS but all LDS are Mormon.

99% of the time when you meet a "Mormon", it's a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (<-actual church name). "Mormon" was/is a nickname. Such as myself.

There are other churches that have broken off from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The largest of which is the Community of Christ, which has 0.25 million members, compared to the 17 million. Community of Christ people don't use the nick name "Mormon", have different scriptures, and have some very different beliefs.

The most notorious break offs from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the polygamous groups, which again have different scriptures and very different beliefs. If an LDS Christian gets married to a second living person, that's grounds for instant excommunication.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Mormon website says the one must perform Mormon essential rites to be saved, which is false! I say these words with kindness and out of love for the truth. The Church of Latter Day Saints website states that one must be a Mormon in order to gain salvation. Specifically, they falsely say that one must participate in what this Mormon website describes as "essential rites" which is false works salvation. It doesn't matter if someone performs the works of a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, only faith alone saves us. And all people will have faith alone in Christ and go to Heaven.



Source: Latter-day Saint Beliefs About Heaven



Start quote

Latter-day Saint teachings state that where we go after this life depends primarily upon the degree to which we accept and follow Jesus Christ, as well as on the desires of our hearts and how we translate those desires into works. In addition, our destination after this life depends on whether we participate in the essential rites (such as baptism) that aid us in the process of repentance, progression and sanctification.

End quote



The degree to which we follow Jesus Christ? That's Lordship Salvation and that's false! Jesus said that a person can have the smallest amount of faith, the size of a mustard seed, and the belief of a child and still be saved my friend. It doesn't matter how much a person believes, just having faith alone in Jesus Christ, even in the smallest amount, is enough.



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,



We know that this is not our own doing, not of our own works. Truly, everyone will accept this grace and go to Heaven. Everyone will become believers in Christ, to the same equal degree, because there's absolutely nothing that we can do to make ourselves righteous by our own works. It's the gift of God. Can a person accept the gift of God more than another person? Can a person accept that gift any less? No! Accepting a gift = accepting a gift. It's equal, equivalent.



Then they wrongly state that people must translate their desires into works. That is wrong, my friend.



Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.



As is written, we are not justified by works of the law, literally. In terms of being saved by faith alone, faith is the seed that saves us. Only with the Holy Spirit inside of us are we capable of performing good works. Because without being counted as righteous before, then it's impossible for us to do anything good. The only criteria for a person to go to Heaven is to be made clean. And the only way to be made clean is by the Blood of Christ. Therefore, works salvation takes away from Christ, it goes against Jesus' teachings!



Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.



In terms of the "essential rites" the only thing that's essential is having faith alone in Our Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Baptism is a metaphor for that simple belief. Having a physical water baptism is not necessary at all for salvation. Because everyone who has ever believed in Jesus Christ is already baptized spiritually by the Holy Ghost dwelling inside of them!



Repentance is defined as the recognition of sins, and thus recognizing the need for a savior. Repentance is not works salvation like turning from your sins, or following the law, because we know that by the Law, nobody is saved. It's only by God's grace that we gain permanent life. Because we were all disobedient, we all sinned, only God is good, only Jesus Christ is perfect, free of sin. So there's no works salvation process of repentance at all.



Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,



Then they mention progression and sanctification. We are already sanctified by Christ when we believe. We don't need any fancy works salvation sanctification rites to save us! We have faith in Jesus and therefore are permanently saved. Period. There's no progression when it comes to salvation. The only way a person can make progress is by having the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them.



Therefore, the Holy Ghost blesses you my friend. It's important to be strict when it comes to salvation, because as we know, Jesus is the only way to Heaven! Nobody else can save us, no one else leads to Heaven. Only Christ is good, only in the Lord is there life. Amen.



Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.



Post commentary. This message was originally created for Katzpur on the City Data Christian forum. However, I believe it’s useful in general for rebuking the heresy that is works salvation, so I’ve made it into it’s own article.



Truly I say to you all, it doesn’t matter if a person calls themselves a man-made title like Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness, as long as that person believes in Jesus Christ with faith alone then they are permanently saved. The problem is when people falsely spread works salvation, which takes away the glory and honor that Our Lord Christ Jesus deserves!



When someone wrongly says that you must perform good works to be saved, they say that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was not sufficient. As believers, we know that is false, of course. Jesus’ blood is indeed sufficient! And all people will believe in Him and be washed of all their sins.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ

So why are you working Harold?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

My experience with Mormons come from their mouth: They have said the Son and the The Father are not one, Jesus and Satan are brothers, that each person through works can become a god of their own planet, that only certain believers can lay hands on you and that you would be given the Holy Spirit and that is confirmed by speaking in tongues. Those alone are not true and The Holy Bible does not even hint to those ideas.

I haven't heard back from you, so I'll just address rest of these inaccuracies below. Why does being accurate matter? Because truth matters- any Christian should proclaim that. And if you go into a conversation clinging to a false picture of what someone else believes and aren't interested in being learning more, it's a doomed conversation and usually ends up teaches the opposite of what you want (oh the stories I could tell here....).

Going super rapid fire here:

" the Son and the The Father are not one": they are one God, but two different persons.
"Jesus and Satan are brothers": neither you nor I go about thinking that way, but the Father is the Father of everyone so on a technical level that makes everyone siblings. Doesn't mean anything about being the same or equal.
"each person through works" : no, salvation comes through faith. Real saving faith does involve action. Cheap grace is a dangerous lie.
"god of their own planet": inaccurate cartoon. Actual beliefs: become one with God, a joint heir with Christ.
"only certain believers can lay hands on you" - LDS Christians do believe in an actual formal priesthood, is that's what you're referring to. Anyone can pray and beseech God's aide.
"that you would be given the Holy Spirit" : anyone can hear the Holy Spirit and Him witnessing. Having the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost is something for believers.
"by speaking in tongues" : LDS Christians don't do speaking in tongues glossolalia style, wherein you utter words in some not-normal language. Rather the belief is to speak normal languages (English, Spanish, etc) that normal people can understand to better spread God's message. Anyone can have this gift.
"The Holy Bible does not even hint to those ideas" : LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. I personally have major objections to sola Biblia.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Just as a reminder, there are Christians who hold to a works salvation doctrine.

 

[dev553344]

Sorry @Jane_Doe22 if I was a bit abrasive. I know the LDS church does better than most in their loving ways. Anyways hope you're having a good day! Cheers!

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

I haven't heard back from you, so I'll just address rest of these inaccuracies below. Why does being accurate matter? Because truth matters- any Christian should proclaim that. And if you go into a conversation clinging to a false picture of what someone else believes and aren't interested in being learning more, it's a doomed conversation and usually ends up teaches the opposite of what you want (oh the stories I could tell here....).

Going super rapid fire here:

" the Son and the The Father are not one": they are one God, but two different persons.
"Jesus and Satan are brothers": neither you nor I go about thinking that way, but the Father is the Father of everyone so on a technical level that makes everyone siblings. Doesn't mean anything about being the same or equal.
"each person through works" : no, salvation comes through faith. Real saving faith does involve action. Cheap grace is a dangerous lie.
"god of their own planet": inaccurate cartoon. Actual beliefs: become one with God, a joint heir with Christ.
"only certain believers can lay hands on you" - LDS Christians do believe in an actual formal priesthood, is that's what you're referring to. Anyone can pray and beseech God's aide.
"that you would be given the Holy Spirit" : anyone can hear the Holy Spirit and Him witnessing. Having the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost is something for believers.
"by speaking in tongues" : LDS Christians don't do speaking in tongues glossolalia style, wherein you utter words in some not-normal language. Rather the belief is to speak normal languages (English, Spanish, etc) that normal people can understand to better spread God's message. Anyone can have this gift.
"The Holy Bible does not even hint to those ideas" : LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. I personally have major objections to sola Biblia.

I haven't responded bc I have a life and not on here 24/7. Second, I am not a LDS I am a follower of Christ and attend a Baptist Church. I am against the teachings of LDS as a believer of the Word of God. I was stating what a LDS told me personally. I debated with them for nearly 2 hours to present the true gospel and teachings of Jesus. If you are attacking me then you didn't read my messages. I never once said I agreed with their beliefs.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I haven't responded bc I have a life and not on here 24/7. Second, I am not a LDS I am a follower of Christ and attend a Baptist Church. I am against the teachings of LDS as a believer of the Word of God. I was stating what a LDS told me personally. I debated with them for nearly 2 hours to present the true gospel and teachings of Jesus. If you are attacking me then you didn't read my messages. I never once said I agreed with their beliefs.

I apologize if I caused offense, that was not my intention. And especially not to attack you.

The Baptist - LDS Christian miscommunication perils are legendary, especially in debate settings with "anti-cult" stuff in play. I know- as a LDS Christian married to a Baptist I've seen it so many times over the decades.

The miscommunication goes both ways. I can't tell you how many LDS Christian missionaries I've talked with who literally say "yeah, I talked with this Baptist on my mission. He spent two hours yelling at us about how it's not important to follow Christ. You just got to recite these lines and then you can do whatever you want. And that Jesus and the Father are the same person- he's never read the Bible at all. I pray that one day he'll do so and come to know Christ and the Gospel." <<--- obviously this is completely off base and they completely misunderstood everything.

The miscommuncaiton drives me crazy.

 

[dev553344]

I haven't responded bc I have a life and not on here 24/7. Second, I am not a LDS I am a follower of Christ and attend a Baptist Church. I am against the teachings of LDS as a believer of the Word of God. I was stating what a LDS told me personally. I debated with them for nearly 2 hours to present the true gospel and teachings of Jesus. If you are attacking me then you didn't read my messages. I never once said I agreed with their beliefs.

I doubt a conversation with a Mormon is going to be productive for you. Mormons tend to teach from the hip things that their church doesn't support. And some will just quote the LDS official website. But that's not what Mormons teach.

If you go to a Catholic church they are required to go to school and get educated before they preach their church doctrine. So they are more in unison as to what they teach. Mormons aren't required to do that and so a lot of false doctrine is spread thru out the Mormon church. I found this out myself when I was active in the LDS church for 10 years.

Cheers!