Latter Rain

[David H.]

Do you mean in the same person?

No, But all around the true believers, and they sway and seduce them, especially the young believers. We must grow up into Him in all things.
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (Ephesians 4:15)

 

[marks]

No, But all around the true believers, and they sway and seduce them, especially the young believers. We must grow up into Him in all things.
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (Ephesians 4:15)

And so my question remains . . . Are we even able to do that, to grow up into Christ in all things? Or are we waiting for something new to happen to make it all possible?

And what of those who lived last century? Did they never have the chance to fulfill God's stated intent for them?

Much love!

 

[marks]

cult of textualism

Right.

There's a conversation killer!

I'll ignore it at the moment, however, labeling someone as cultic for being totally into the text of the Bible, seriously?

Much love!

 

[marks]

We are complete in him who are his, But the church is full of both wheat and tares, and we are still in our fallen bodies, and there is spiritual growth that occurs in us which is progressive sanctification. Do Not get hooked into the hyper dispensational argument that the wheat and tares refers to Israel as it refers to the "world" Ie: Christendom in general, and the lie that the Kingdom of heaven only applies to the Jews. The Gospel of the Kingdom is not just for the Jews any longer but for all who believe, and is preached in all the world, not just Israel.

we are one in Christ Jesus. We Never stop growing in Christ Jesus. He is infinite, we are finite in our earthen vessels. These points you are making and getting swayed by are the root of the cult of textualism which in itself is of the tares. Faith is a journey, not a destination.

I'm really only thinking of the real Christians. I don't expect to have Christian communion with someone unregenerate.

We learn to yield ourselves to God, we learn to take our thoughts captive, we learn to think in terms of God's truth, this is the renewing of the mind.

I'm not really sure what you mean by, Faith is a journey. To my thinking, faith is trusting in Jesus, which allows me relationship with Jesus. And Jesus doesn't sit still. Maybe that's what you mean?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

It depends on the severity of the birth pangs, and how quickly they come out. right now the mood in the church is largely one of saying things will return to normalcy, But once we reach the point of severe distress Christians will cry out to God and he will answer. It could be within a year or two or 5 or ten years?

Whoa... you are definitely more hopeful than I am, Lol.

What I do know is there are a lot of prophecies and timelines that point to 2026/27 in scripture, and I mean a lot of them, which I always figured should be significant. For one it is the start of the third millennial day from when the Gospel of the Kingdom was first preached by John the Baptist, And Jesus Beginning his ministry the following Nisan thereafter, where he prophesied that in three days he will raise this temple, speaking of His death burial and resurrection but I also believe the second coming as well as Per 2 Peter 3:8.

Ok. There are some prophetic paradigms out there that I am not aware of, so I will try not to pass firm judgment, but I can't say as this witnesses to me. I realized not long ago that the Jewish calendar does not date the Lord's first coming to around the 4,000th year from creation like ours does, which would mean that to reach the prophesied "seventh day" (i.e. the end of 6,000 years) by the Jewish calendar, we actually have what could be a few hundred years left. I don't think it will be that long, but I do think I will live out my life and only if I'm lucky will I live to see even the beginning of the 2nd outpouring.

But thanks for the reply. I certainly hope you are right (though I fear you are not).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Are you saying the gap, maybe I've been misunderstanding you, the gap here is a gap in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? Do you mean that the Holy Spirit was given in a way at that time, and is not now, but will be later?

Correct, in keeping with the latter rain analogy. It rains early in the season, stops, and then rains again, more heavily at the end of the season before the harvest comes.

Not to be offensive, but this attitude is what the Laodicean believer says:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Revelation 3:17.

And contrary to Ephesians 4:13, and 1 Corinthians 13:9-10.

It is the attitude that leads to complacency in the church.

Correct as well. Not that marks is this way, but in general the theology itself doesn't lead to zealousness. It leads to a type of contentment in things we should never be content about, such as how much we are striving to please the Lord. Now, Marks is the type who takes value in the consolation of grace. It permeates his entire theology, and certainly it has a place in the lives of all believers. But I agree: In many cases, grace without zealousness leads to various kinds of spiritual assumption, and from spiritual assumption to spiritual lackadaisicalness.

Meanwhile, I'm asserting that God has made us spiritually rich by actually coming and living in us, the Creator of everything living in this little speck of 'me'! That God's presence in me cannot be bettered in any way imaginable. That God's presence in me is, "Christ in you, the hope (expectation) of glory".

But Marks, this does not account then for why he would say those things to the Laodiceans. They were Christians, yes? If they had Christ and therefore had all they needed, why was He speaking to them and about them using such spiritually impoverished terms? :

 

[Truther]

I think a number of members of this forum are looking for the Latter Rain, an end-times outpouring of the Holy Spirit which will bring unity and sanctity to the church.

If this is your view, I have this question for you.

What will God provide then, that He is not providing now?

Much love!

More souls.

 

[David H.]

Right.

There's a conversation killer!

I'll ignore it at the moment, however, labeling someone as cultic for being totally into the text of the Bible, seriously?

Forgive me, I was not accusing you, that is a term from A.W. Tozer that describes a church of falling into textualism. I thought I had shared the link with you before about this, but here it is. It is short and well worth reading.

No Revival without Reformation - A.W. Tozer - Sermon Index

 

[David H.]

Ok. There are some prophetic paradigms out there that I am not aware of, so I will try not to pass firm judgment, but I can't say as this witnesses to me. I realized not long ago that the Jewish calendar does not date the Lord's first coming to around the 4,000th year from creation like ours does, which would mean that to reach the prophesied "seventh day" (i.e. the end of 6,000 years) by the Jewish calendar, we actually have what could be a few hundred years left. I don't think it will be that long, but I do think I will live out my life and only if I'm lucky will I live to see even the beginning of the 2nd outpouring.

But thanks for the reply. I certainly hope you are right (though I fear you are not).

I think the seventh millennium began in 1998, we are in the darkness before the dawn as we speak. These are my opinions of course. I will share some of those timelines with you all some day when I have some time to find them all. They are stunningly accurate, and remember, the Hebrew luni/solar calendar and the Gregorian solar calendar do align every seventh year because of leap days and months, so they are not that far off. The Hebrew years from creation are off by some 200+ years but my understanding comes from the Geneologies in scripture and specific years given by the authors of Prophecy, for example Ezekiel 40:1 is a Known year, and one I believe is a Jubilee year, which aligns with the start of the ministry of Christ and 2027. We Know this year because it gives us the year, and this is Ezekiel's temple vision.

I Do not know what will happen then, perhaps it will be another year that means nothing but when you see all the ways that prophecy points to that yesr you will be amazed.

 

[Gideons300]

My difficulty with this answer is that God has told us He has given us everything we need for life and Godliness, but if there is an extra gift of faith that will actually get us to where we need to be, and God is holding back on giving it, then wouldn't that mean He HASN'T given us all we need?

I would think that God wants me to believe His promises Now, and to live in them Now. Doesn't He?

Much love!

I understand what you are saying. Yet, in his letter to the Ephesians, Paul prayed to God to open their eyes to the hope of His calling and to the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe.

Had God withheld vision from them? Not at all. But they had not sought it. We are told that in the last days, everything that can be shaken will be, so that all that remains is Jesus in us. There are most definitely times and seasons for the Lord's working, a master plan. He has provided all things, even when the church was solely under Rome's grip.

Could He have awakened the saint then? Absolutely. Did He? No, He withheld. Now, were there saints who walked in the light despite the darkness. I am sure there were. His promises never changed and those seeking Him with all their hearts found Him. But, for the most part, the church was dry bones. The wheat and tares were allowed to grow together, for the time was not yet that the final separation should occur.

In the coming days, as the return of Jesus approaches, God is going to see to it that every saint awakes. Can any child of His grab hold of His promises today? Of course! But the shakings have been ordained by God to help bring us to the point of awakening, and again, we are on a prophetic time table.

I pray that when I talk about an end time awakening and outpouring of the Spirit, it is not taken to mean that Christians should just sit back, hit the snooze alarm and wait to be awakened en masse. We all should have been seeking Him with diligence the whole time, for all along, He has, as you pointed out, provided everything we need.

For every single one of us, today is the day we are called to 'come up higher' by reckoning our old nature as having no more authority over us. It will always be today. But the fact remains, there are times and seasons with God's plan. Most still need to be awakened. That will happen through the coming shakings and through the prayers and sharings of those saints who are already awake.

I pray that makes sense.

blessings to you, dear brother

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

Didn't God sanctify us when we were reborn? Doesn't the Holy Spirit lead us to live that new sanctified life, as we renew our minds?

This is my exact difficulty with this teaching. That we are lacking what we need to live a holy life.

I find the horse to be our recreation, and the cart to be the renewing of the mind.

Much love!

If this were true, why would Paul pray that we be sanctified wholly, body, soul and spirit? Our core being, our new nature is totally pure at regeneration. The sanctification process is the growing of that newness outward towards the surface which is evidenced by spiritual fruit. And that process happens as we grab hold of the promises of God and bathe ourselves in the Word, seeking by every means possible to grow up into Him in all things.

God is not satisfied at us being pure babes in Christ. He wants us mature, able to lead others into maturity, that we might have our senses honed to know good and evil. He wants our mindset to be as Paul's was, that we too might deeply desire to apprehend that for which we are apprehended.

Sanctification is a process, but it is not growing from darkness to light. Rather, it is growing from glory to glory, from light to greater light.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Hidden In Him]

They are stunningly accurate, and remember, the Hebrew luni/solar calendar and the Gregorian solar calendar do align every seventh year because of leap days and months

That is correct.

The Hebrew years from creation are off by some 200+ years...

This is helpful. Thank you. I haven't studied the Hebrew years in detail, so this might be something to look into. My sense is that the end will not be here by the time of my passing, nor even the outpouring yet (roughly 25 years from now), but that we are indeed getting closer.

 

[complete]

Hi Chris,

Something in the Deuteronomy passage caught my eye, If God's wrath be kindled against you, there will be no rain. Of course God's wrath would never be against the church, we are saved from wrath.

But what caught my eye was, there be no rain, no former rain, no latter rain, but, in the words of Leviticus, the heavens like iron and the dirt like bronze. Or is it the other way? I forget!

So then early and latter rain here are both about the same thing, fulfilling God's covenant to materially bless Israel based on whether Israel harkened diligently to God's commandments given that day. If they do, they receive the rains, if not, then not.

As I relook at it, Joel seems to speak the same way, "I'll send you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain". And this will result in the same material blessings to Israel. As I remember, isn't this where it says, And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh?

Wouldn't it be referring to a time before that Pentecost?

In the James passage I can see a simile being used, like you've bolded there, as the farmer waits for his crops until he's received the rains, so we wait for the Lord.

In this simile, I'd agree the comparison points us to Israel, as that is the precedent, that these are what bring Israel the blessings of their covenant with God, which will be exactly what happens when Jesus comes at the end of the age.

In Acts, this phrase "times of refreshing", I've long been intrigued by this verse.

Much love!

'Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring,
for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God:
for He hath given you the former rain moderately,
and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller,
and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God,
that hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
and that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
and My people shall never be ashamed.' (Joel 2:23-27)

Hi there, @marks,

In Joel 2:21-27, temporal blessings are referred to, (referring to earthly life, rather than spiritual; to things related to time rather than to eternity). Then in 28-32 it is spiritual blessings that are spoken of:-

'And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.
And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.'

* The word, 'afterward', indicates that after the temporal blessings had been bestowed and begun to be enjoyed (for the nation had been restored under Ezra and Nehemiah), 'the light had sprung up' (Isaiah 42:7; Matthew 4:12-16; Luke 2:32 - Bible marginal notes).

'I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
.. and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
.... and give thee for a covenant of the people,
...... for a light of the Gentiles;
........ To open the blind eyes,
.......... to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
............ and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is My Name:
and My glory will I not give to another,
neither My praise to graven images.
(Isaiah 42:6-48)

'Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison,
He departed into Galilee; And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum,
which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light;
and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.'
(Matthew 4:12)

'For mine eyes have seen Thy salvation
Which Thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
A light to lighten the Gentiles,
and the glory of Thy people Israel.'
(Luke 2:30-32)

* 'The days of the Son of Man' were then present (Luke 17:22). Afterwards would come the days of the Spirit; and 'this is that', which was seen on the day of Pentecost, when Joel 2:28-32 BEGAN to be fulfilled. Had the nation repented as God required of them and heralded by Peter in Acts 3:18-26, 'All things which God had spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets' would have been fulfilled, including Joel 2:30-32:-

'And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.'

* But now it awaits a yet future day.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

In Acts, this phrase "times of refreshing", I've long been intrigued by this verse.

Much love!

'But those things, which God before had shewed
by the mouth of all His prophets,
that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.'
(Act 3:18-21)

Hi @marks,

Yes, that phrase has always arrested my attention too, and it is only found here in Scripture. I believe that this describes what is said in Joel 2:21-27 very well.

If they were obedient, and repented, tremendous things would take place. The times of refreshing would come from the Lord and this refreshing could be nothing less than the kingdom of Messiah which all the prophets from Samuel onwards had foretold and described (Acts 3:24). At the time Peter spoke, Christ had ascended to heaven, but He was not to be there for always. It was only until the times of restoration of the kingdom should come to pass, which God planned to cover all the earth so that all should know Him. It would be when the knowledge of God will cover the earth 'as the waters cover the sea' (Isaiah 11:9), Jerusalem being it's centre.

I do have problems bringing all the various strands of prophecy together in order in my mind.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

But Marks, this does not account then for why he would say those things to the Laodiceans. They were Christians, yes? If they had Christ and therefore had all they needed, why was He speaking to them and about them using such spiritually impoverished terms? :

This here is key.

This is a great example that doctrines don't exist in a vacuum, and how you understand soteriology will affect how you may look at this letter.

This is also a good "litmus test" to the reader, in fact, Jesus does not say this to the members of the church in Laodicea, Jesus actually said this first to the messenger to the church. This was specifically who Jesus was speaking too, though of course all are invited to hear and benefit.

So there's the first question . . . was Jesus indicting an entire congregation of born again children of God? Was Jesus indicting the messenger specifically?

Revelation 3:14-22
14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

These pronouns, thy works, thou art, spue thee, all of these pronouns are singular. So this certainly descriptive of this messenger. Which is why I don't think "angel" to be the best translation in this case, though this is the simplicity of the KJV translation I've come to appreciate so much.

If you see this letter as describing a born again Christian being threatened with spewing out, and that spewing being the loss of eternal life, this shows not only different ideas about this letter, but also about salvation, rebirth, sanctification, it goes on.

In fact, these pronouns ARE singular, so how far down that road should we go?

Correct, in keeping with the latter rain analogy. It rains early in the season, stops, and then rains again, more heavily at the end of the season before the harvest comes.

In this then, you are thinking is that we've received the Holy Spirit as they did, yes, but now with the same power as they did? And one day this will change?

So even if I had faith to move mountains, God's answer would be, Nope, ain't happening! ?

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

This say to me otherwise.

Much love!

 

[Gideons300]

This here is key.

This is a great example that doctrines don't exist in a vacuum, and how you understand soteriology will affect how you may look at this letter.

This is also a good "litmus test" to the reader, in fact, Jesus does not say this to the members of the church in Laodicea, Jesus actually said this first to the messenger to the church. This was specifically who Jesus was speaking too, though of course all are invited to hear and benefit.

So there's the first question . . . was Jesus indicting an entire congregation of born again children of God? Was Jesus indicting the messenger specifically?

Revelation 3:14-22
14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

These pronouns, thy works, thou art, spue thee, all of these pronouns are singular. So this certainly descriptive of this messenger. Which is why I don't think "angel" to be the best translation in this case, though this is the simplicity of the KJV translation I've come to appreciate so much.

If you see this letter as describing a born again Christian being threatened with spewing out, and that spewing being the loss of eternal life, this shows not only different ideas about this letter, but also about salvation, rebirth, sanctification, it goes on.

In fact, these pronouns ARE singular, so how far down that road should we go?



In this then, you are thinking is that we've received the Holy Spirit as they did, yes, but now with the same power as they did? And one day this will change?

So even if I had faith to move mountains, God's answer would be, Nope, ain't happening! ?

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

This say to me otherwise.

Much love!

Brother, I mean no harm but you are bending plain interpretations of these verses o fit your doctrine, rather than visa versa. The pronouns are singular simply because the noun referred to.... the church.... is singular. We do not say "the church are.....". We say "the church is".

Once scripture is stripped of its plain intent, it can be made to say whatever we want it to say. I find the same technique used in explaining away the verse in Hebrews 10 concerning willful sin. Because so many are found willfully sinning, it is imperative that they explain that the words do not mean what they plainly tell us. This way, their consciences are not violated, they can still sin willfully, and all is well.... they think.

Far better to cry out to God for the secret to gaining victory over sin, or their lukewarmness, admitting their state and hungering to be freed from it, than to use a lot of religious twistings to escape God's desire for repentance.

Was James speaking to Christians when he called them adulterers and adulteresses, telling them they cannot be double-minded and excuse friendship with the world and its ways? When we appear before Him on the final day, when Jesus asks us why we call Him Lord when we do not do those things He commands us, will we go into a long Soteriological explanation as to why our continued disobedience is ok?

If we are walking in willful disobedience, should we not be found on our faces seeking the power found in grace to teach us the HOW of walking in full obedience, rather than offering offensive religious excuses as to our behavior?

God DOES have an answer for any who truly hate their disobedient, self centered nature, for it is they who are willingvto lose their lives to find His life in them. But let us make no mistake, he who tries to save his life, with no desire to be a holy child, this one will lose his life in the end.

The time to address this is now, for to do anything less is literally gambling with our eternal destinies.

blessings, Mark

Gideon

 

[marks]

'Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring,
for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God:
for He hath given you the former rain moderately,
and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller,
and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God,
that hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
and that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
and My people shall never be ashamed.' (Joel 2:23-27)

Hi there, @marks,

In Joel 2:21-27, temporal blessings are referred to, (referring to earthly life, rather than spiritual; to things related to time rather than to eternity). Then in 28-32 it is spiritual blessings that are spoken of:-

'And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.
And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.'

* The word, 'afterward', indicates that after the temporal blessings had been bestowed and begun to be enjoyed (for the nation had been restored under Ezra and Nehemiah), 'the light had sprung up' (Isaiah 42:7; Matthew 4:12-16; Luke 2:32 - Bible marginal notes).

'I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
.. and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
.... and give thee for a covenant of the people,
...... for a light of the Gentiles;
........ To open the blind eyes,
.......... to bring out the prisoners from the prison,
............ and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the LORD: that is My Name:
and My glory will I not give to another,
neither My praise to graven images.
(Isaiah 42:6-48)

'Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison,
He departed into Galilee; And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum,
which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light;
and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.'
(Matthew 4:12)

'For mine eyes have seen Thy salvation
Which Thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
A light to lighten the Gentiles,
and the glory of Thy people Israel.'
(Luke 2:30-32)

* 'The days of the Son of Man' were then present (Luke 17:22). Afterwards would come the days of the Spirit; and 'this is that', which was seen on the day of Pentecost, when Joel 2:28-32 BEGAN to be fulfilled. Had the nation repented as God required of them and heralded by Peter in Acts 3:18-26, 'All things which God had spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets' would have been fulfilled, including Joel 2:30-32:-

'And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.'

* But now it awaits a yet future day.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'm reminded of Zechariah's prophecy,

Zechariah 13:2-4
2) And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3) And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

Is this after Jesus returns? What are your thoughts here?

Much love!

 

[marks]

More souls.

But actually what I was asking, what of His Spirit will God give to me then, if I'm here at the time, that He's not giving to me now?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Forgive me, I was not accusing you, that is a term from A.W. Tozer that describes a church of falling into textualism. I thought I had shared the link with you before about this, but here it is. It is short and well worth reading.

No Revival without Reformation - A.W. Tozer - Sermon Index

The way you use this towards me comes across as an attempt to marginalize me because of my hermaneutic. I think such labeling is counterproductive. I could pick out labels for you, and where does that get us?

What's is the problem with following the text of the Bible??

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct as well. Not that marks is this way, but in general the theology itself doesn't lead to zealousness. It leads to a type of contentment in things we should never be content about, such as how much we are striving to please the Lord. Now, Marks is the type who takes value in the consolation of grace. It permeates his entire theology, and certainly it has a place in the lives of all believers. But I agree: In many cases, grace without zealousness leads to various kinds of spiritual assumption, and from spiritual assumption to spiritual lackadaisicalness.

I would disagree with this.

I would say that the true power of a resurrection life is found in our moment by moment communion with our Maker, not in our dedication to do good works.

God is building us to be a people zealous for good works, shall we take over the task from Him?

I'm glad you find the consolation of grace to have a place. If you are using your words Biblically, our consolation is the the comfort we receive knowing God's promises, and believing His ability to carry them out. The consolation of grace speaks to me of the comfort I receive knowing that however badly I make a mess of things, that God gives me grace in giving to me Christ, and Christ in me gives me the expectation of glory.

God won't fail me!!

For me this is the difference between defining myself according to my works, or according to my faith. I'm not saying that's how you think of this, only that this is how I think of it.

For me, overcoming sin is not found in the struggle against sin, and the dedication to do good. For me, overcoming sin is found in resting in Christ, trusting in His death and resurrection to provide for me my unity with God. Living the new man overcomes the appetites of the flesh.

I'm not so much fighting against this or that sin, more that I'm desirous to live in love and peace and joy, which is what God is working in my life. Sin loses place. It just doesn't find the opportunity if I'm walking in the Spirit. And walking in the Spirit produces the works which God ordained, rather than me trying to make something happen.

Much love!