LAW IS NEITHER OBEYED DISOBEYED NOR BROKEN / AN EXISTENTIAL ONTOLOGICAL DISPROOF OF LAW

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

What I had meant to convey is how man devises a way that seems right to him, but as they laugh, they are sorrowful and their mirth is in heaviness which seems to suggest a fruit or end result for such thinking to prove it cannot be right or beneficial after all.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. 13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is heaviness.

As for applying it to what you are talking about in regards to your beliefs, only you can discern and know that. It just seems to me that you can make that assessment towards the attempts by mankind with their laws and yet see that it is failing society for why I now ask you that plainly.

What I am proposing as a means of going beyond law and uplifting persons and society is an untried proposal and, therefore cannot yet be judged.

Scripture, via Paul/ Christ, adjudges law as outmoded and a failure, and I am explaining precisely why law is a failed failing failure; thus indeed sorrowful, unbeneficial, unfruitful; attributes of which will, nonetheless be preserved within any movement unto a different future.

 

[prism]

prism;
My first OP on this site was an ontologically mediated destruction of the supposed deity of Jehovah/Christ. I reasoned that Jehovah is not deity since he gave man the law, while, all the while, man's determination to action originates on the basis of what is not, i.e., on the basis of the not yet future, on the basis of recognition of desideratum, and, that since Jehovah failed to exhibit a knowledge of how the upsurge of human action actually happens, i.e., via negation, he did not create man, else he would have known better than to attempt to rule man by law, which law is a given state of affairs, when, men do not at all originate their actions on the basis of given states of affairs, rather, only on the basis of absent, lacking, missing, future states of affairs which men see as desirable.

So, Jehovah/Christ are not at all in the least more intelligent than even I (who knows precisely how I tick when it comes to originating my acts)! Jehovah is feigning being deity via the ignorant authors who supposedly wrote the Bible describing God, inspired by God!? Those authors have, without knowing it, portrayed God as an ignoramus in comparison with twenty first century high intelligence...
Duane

Duane, when you can show forth concrete evidence that Jesus did not actually rise bodily from the dead, then I'll be all ears. For now, it is nothing but Western Philosophical Hoopla.

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

Duane, when you can show forth concrete evidence that Jesus did not actually rise bodily from the dead, then I'll be all ears. For now, it is nothing but Western Philosophical Hoopla.

I can be precisely as demanding and say that until Christianity can show concrete evidence that He did actually resurrect after actually dying, Christians are merely mistakenly pretending He came back to life; whereas I can in fact see myself doing my acts via double nihilation, and I certainly see an insulting crude rude bigotry which therefore deserves to be totally ignored for being inhumanly indecent. I cannot countenance abysmally miserably mean wretchedness. I absolutely cannot countenance blind unreasoning hatred.

 

[prism]

I can be precisely as demanding and say that until Christianity can show concrete evidence that He did actually resurrect after actually dying, Christians are merely mistakenly pretending He came back to life; whereas I can in fact see myself doing my acts via double nihilation, and I certainly see an insulting crude rude bigotry which therefore deserves to be totally ignored for being inhumanly indecent. I cannot countenance abysmally miserably mean wretchedness. I absolutely cannot countenance blind unreasoning hatred.

In the light of numerous biblical witnesses and hundreds of martyrs throughout history testifying to His resurrection, the burden of proof is on you.
Bigotry? Mean wretchedness? Is that what you call others who are concerned for your soul to warn you rather than sitting quietly by pretending to be your friend?

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

In the light of numerous biblical witnesses and hundreds of martyrs throughout history testifying to His resurrection, the burden of proof is on you.
Bigotry? Mean wretchedness? Is that what you call others who are concerned for your soul to warn you rather than sitting quietly by pretending to be your friend?

Your ''hoopla'' insult has earned you Ignore status...

 

[Renniks]

So, Jehovah/Christ are not at all in the least more intelligent than even I (

Oh good night. Are we supposed to take this seriously

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

Oh good night. Are we supposed to take this seriously

Renniks;
Did Christ not declare that in future others would do greater than He? Then, yes, indeed, seriously; i.e., I possess more and deeper understanding of human consciousness than Christ had two thousand years ago; it is just that plainly simple, even though your particular world view disallows you to ascribe any lack whatsoever to your God...He exhibited Himself as lacking fundamental understanding of how human action originates, and, hence, mistakenly gave man the Law.
This presentation at Oxford University discusses certain limitations of Jehovah/Christ's intelligence from a contemporary perspective:

Duane

 

[Renniks]

Renniks;
Did Christ not declare that in future others would do greater than He? Then, yes, indeed, seriously; i.e., I possess more and deeper understanding of human consciousness than Christ had two thousand years ago; it is just that plainly simple, even though your particular world view disallows you to ascribe any lack whatsoever to your God...He exhibited Himself as lacking fundamental understanding of how human action originates, and, hence, mistakenly gave man the Law.
This presentation at Oxford University discusses certain limitations of Jehovah/Christ's intelligence from a contemporary perspective:

Duane

Ok, then, you are smarter than God... thanks for the laugh!

 

[Enow]

What I am proposing as a means of going beyond law and uplifting persons and society is an untried proposal and, therefore cannot yet be judged.

Scripture, via Paul/ Christ, adjudges law as outmoded and a failure, and I am explaining precisely why law is a failed failing failure; thus indeed sorrowful, unbeneficial, unfruitful; attributes of which will, nonetheless be preserved within any movement unto a different future.

If what you are proposing is untried and cannot be judged, then you have no basis to judge anything else as inferior to what you are proposing.

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

If what you are proposing is untried and cannot be judged, then you have no basis to judge anything else as inferior to what you are proposing.

I most certainly do! That basis is rational intelligible reasoning grounded in contemporary scholarship which is in turn based on indubitable precept like Spinoza's dictum that all determination is negation, the dictum is irrefutable, and, my position is grounded upon the dictum.
My proposal to raise all persons up to being reflectively free simply is not yet accomplished, however, that does not mean that the proposal is not viable and valid; it need be tested by actually educating the grassroots. You cannot deny that i am enunciating beautiful ideal states of affairs...

 

[Enow]

I can be precisely as demanding and say that until Christianity can show concrete evidence that He did actually resurrect after actually dying, Christians are merely mistakenly pretending He came back to life; whereas I can in fact see myself doing my acts via double nihilation, and I certainly see an insulting crude rude bigotry which therefore deserves to be totally ignored for being inhumanly indecent. I cannot countenance abysmally miserably mean wretchedness. I absolutely cannot countenance blind unreasoning hatred.

I would think an empty tomb would be proof. If the tomb was not empty, then all the Jews had to do was show the Jews the disciples were preaching to that He was still there in that tomb.

Don't you find it ironic that prophesies in the O.T. about Jesus came true, including how the Jews would reject them? Think about that for a moment. If it wasn't prophesied that the Jews would reject Him, you could say it was mighty convenient that the Jews prophesied Messiah had come and did all those things and they all believed and got saved. How easy it would be to arrange everything; the Jewish Messiah for the whole world, but no.

So you are left with scripture coming true about Jesus Christ and still more prophesy yet to be fulfilled.

The question is, do you believe the Jews that His body was stolen or do you believe those who had deserted Him ( which was also prophesied ) and yet they have seen Him risen on the third day?

Or how about Paul whom was Saul, a devout Jews, persecuting Christians to execute them until he had met the Lord on the way to Damascus?

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

I believe you are boasting way too much there, sir, about disproving His resurrection.

Can you explain the darkness at Jesus's crucifixion as recorded in history by Thallus, a secular historian whom had assumed it was an eclipse but Julius Africanus, another historian but a Christian converted from Judaism, had said highly unlikely because the annual Passover is held 15 days from the new moon which makes it a full moon at the time of Jesus's crucifixion. So not only the light from the sun and the full moon was missing at that day, but Jesus had experienced a separation from the Father when He took the sins of the world upon Himself, thus those sins separated Him from the Father temporarily for those hours of unexplained darkness. Do note that an eclipse lasts only minutes, not hours.

See the evidence at this link from secular history accounts:

Is there historical evidence for the darkness & earthquake at the crucifixion? - Christian Evidence

I do believe you should apply your intellect in seeking out the truth about Jesus Christ rather than venturing into the realm of unproven "brilliance".

 

[Enow]

I most certainly do! That basis is rational intelligible reasoning grounded in contemporary scholarship which is in turn based on indubitable precept like Spinoza's dictum that all determination is negation, the dictum is irrefutable, and, my position is grounded upon the dictum.
My proposal to raise all persons up to being reflectively free simply is not yet accomplished, however, that does not mean that the proposal is not viable and valid; it need be tested by actually educating the grassroots. You cannot deny that i am enunciating beautiful ideal states of affairs...

Did you use your education to prove everything given to you for your education? I can see the education system as tainted. Can you?

There is a lot to be said for how wisdom trumps knowledge. Best seek wisdom from the Lord rather from men or from your own intellect.

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

Ok, then, you are smarter than God... thanks for the laugh!

I most certainly and absolutely am claiming to be radically smarter than the Jehovah/Christ, whom Christians incorrectly deem to be Deity. The Deity which actually created me in His image would not make the error of attempting to pre-determine/determine my conduct by a language of given law which He sets down, for, I, i.e., my Freedom/Liberty is not possibly controlled by given states of affairs, else nothing original and revolutionary could possibly upsurge in the world; an instance of the new and revolutionary being artificial resuscitation whereby persons are indeed resurrected from death...

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

I would think an empty tomb would be proof. If the tomb was not empty, then all the Jews had to do was show the Jews the disciples were preaching to that He was still there in that tomb.

Don't you find it ironic that prophesies in the O.T. about Jesus came true, including how the Jews would reject them? Think about that for a moment. If it wasn't prophesied that the Jews would reject Him, you could say it was mighty convenient that the Jews prophesied Messiah had come and did all those things and they all believed and got saved. How easy it would be to arrange everything; the Jewish Messiah for the whole world, but no.

So you are left with scripture coming true about Jesus Christ and still more prophesy yet to be fulfilled.

The question is, do you believe the Jews that His body was stolen or do you believe those who had deserted Him ( which was also prophesied ) and yet they have seen Him risen on the third day?

Or how about Paul whom was Saul, a devout Jews, persecuting Christians to execute them until he had met the Lord on the way to Damascus?

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

I believe you are boasting way too much there, sir, about disproving His resurrection.

Can you explain the darkness at Jesus's crucifixion as recorded in history by Thallus, a secular historian whom had assumed it was an eclipse but Julius Africanus, another historian but a Christian converted from Judaism, had said highly unlikely because the annual Passover is held 15 days from the new moon which makes it a full moon at the time of Jesus's crucifixion. So not only the light from the sun and the full moon was missing at that day, but Jesus had experienced a separation from the Father when He took the sins of the world upon Himself, thus those sins separated Him from the Father temporarily for those hours of unexplained darkness. Do note that an eclipse lasts only minutes, not hours.

See the evidence at this link from secular history accounts:

Is there historical evidence for the darkness & earthquake at the crucifixion? - Christian Evidence

I do believe you should apply your intellect in seeking out the truth about Jesus Christ rather than venturing into the realm of unproven "brilliance".

Enow;
There is no indubitable evidence that Christ in fact died; He was merely comatose for three days after being horridly tortured even before being crucified and stabbed with a spear...

Venturing into the realm of possibly ultimately being proven to have advocated a brilliant particular future for mankind, is the highest possible human achievement, and, I most certainly am not going to abandon that possibility for my future, in order to resign myself entirely to attaining to the so called truth about Jesus, when, in fact, I see Him, for good reason, to be intellectually inferior.

Christians are too timid; too fearful; too afraid; too enslaved to Christ; too intently hiding from their very own ontological structure by deeming themselves to be unworthy inherent sinners, even to begin to realize their possibilities for being accomplished persons in their own right.
Sincerely;
Duane

 

[Willie T]

Just when I think I have already heard the stupidest comments possible, someone comes along and tops everything.

 

[Enow]

I most certainly do! That basis is rational intelligible reasoning grounded in contemporary scholarship which is in turn based on indubitable precept like Spinoza's dictum that all determination is negation, the dictum is irrefutable, and, my position is grounded upon the dictum.
My proposal to raise all persons up to being reflectively free simply is not yet accomplished, however, that does not mean that the proposal is not viable and valid; it need be tested by actually educating the grassroots. You cannot deny that i am enunciating beautiful ideal states of affairs...

I can denounce it, because your enunciating is hardly having the desired effect, now is it?

 

[Enow]

Enow;
There is no indubitable evidence that Christ in fact died; He was merely comatose for three days after being horridly tortured even before being crucified and stabbed with a spear...

Permit me to educate you. The point of the spear piercing His side was to see if He was really dead. When someone dies, water separates from the blood. If He was not dead by that evidence, then they would have broken His legs to speed up His death, but they did not because He was dead. Then He was allowed to be taken down from the cross to be taken away to be buried.

Venturing into the realm of possibly ultimately being proven to have advocated a brilliant particular future for mankind, is the highest possible human achievement, and, I most certainly am not going to abandon that possibility for my future, in order to resign myself entirely to attaining to the so called truth about Jesus, when, in fact, I see Him, for good reason, to be intellectually inferior.

Seeing how you did not use your intellect to explore His death and the reality of His death, I would have to say you are short-sighted in your conclusion for why I deem it in error.

Christians are too timid; too fearful; too afraid; too enslaved to Christ; too intently hiding from their very own ontological structure by deeming themselves to be unworthy inherent sinners, even to begin to realize their possibilities for being accomplished persons in their own right.
Sincerely;
Duane

I am not too fearful nor afraid because my hope is in Jesus Christ the Lord.

You, however, does not have any assurance of salvation nor any hope in the afterlife. Well, none you have alluded to, anyway.

 

[prism]

Your ''hoopla'' insult has earned you Ignore status...

That's fine with me. In Judgment you will have no IGNORE button to push. Selah.

 

[Renniks]

I most certainly and absolutely am claiming to be radically smarter than the Jehovah/Christ, whom Christians incorrectly deem to be Deity. The Deity which actually created me in His image would not make the error of attempting to pre-determine/determine my conduct by a language of given law which He sets down, for, I, i.e., my Freedom/Liberty is not possibly controlled by given states of affairs, else nothing original and revolutionary could possibly upsurge in the world; an instance of the new and revolutionary being artificial resuscitation whereby persons are indeed resurrected from death...

But the law was not given for that reason.
We've already discussed that.

 

[Duane Clinton Meehan]

Did you use your education to prove everything given to you for your education? I can see the education system as tainted. Can you?

There is a lot to be said for how wisdom trumps knowledge. Best seek wisdom from the Lord rather from men or from your own intellect.

You are addressing me as a paradigm Christian asserting your loving concerns regarding how I would be better off resigning my own sapientality, in exchange for the so called wisdom of a being whom I clearly perceive not to be deity. If Jehovah/Christ were in fact deity, they would not have mistakenly prescribed inefficacious law as an efficient means of steering man down the so-called wisest path, while, all the while, language of law does not, cannot, either motivate or determine a person to do or not do anything.