Let's discuss..cessation after death?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,873
1,903
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah, I definitely opened up a can of worms re this topic Ronald.
I have it from all sides, orthodox, unorthodox...
Blessings
J.
It is a good topic for several reasons.
1. Eternal Hell has always been a stumbling block for un believers. The common argument: "I can't believe in nor worship a God who would create an eternal torture chamber." That is a fair objection, an impossible task to overcome without the Grace of God.
2. Pastors avoid the topic, slip it in as a warning, a scare tactic to persuade, but just don't go into any depth. I had a great Pastor, gifted, educated and he didn't either.
I think a wrong approach to evangelism is to hit someone over the head with "You're gonna burn in Hell forever if you don't repent" as they throw condemning insults at them in a kind of a mean spirited way about all their sinful lives. Not a welcome loving introduction and I've witnessed it done like that. They are confounded why they have little effect. My Pastor used to say, start and end with Grace.
It is good to examine the nature of Hell.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
It is good to examine the nature of Hell.


Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

@Ronald David Bruno
I have heard many, many interpretations re this topic brother, guess in a number of years there will be more inter-pretations
Blessings
Johann.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,116
6,346
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agree to disagree Barn
J.
Honorable Disagreement

If you ask me, do I hold the doctrinal views that were held by John Calvin, I reply, I do in the main hold them, and rejoice to avow it. …

Most atrocious things have been spoken about the character and spiritual condition of John Wesley, the modern prince of Arminians. I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines that he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the Twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley. The character of John Wesley stands beyond all imputation for self-sacrifice, zeal, holiness, and communion with God; he lived far above the ordinary level of common Christians and was one of whom the world was not worthy.

From The Autobiography Of Charles Spurgeon


 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Lambano

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,116
6,346
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am well aware that you know him Barn.
Would you say politics and Christianity goes hand in hand?
J.
Nope.
I'm a CHURCH<---------------->STATE kinda guy from way back.

You may add a number of Puritan names there as well.
J.
It's not my work.
Puritans? What about Anabaptists and Mennonites and Bears, Oh my. :p:D:eek::cool:;):)


oz-1024x576.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Lambano

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,873
1,903
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If this statement confirms that souls and spirits are imperishable, then that is true
I agreed with you up to this statement. To perish means to die in your sins, also implies destruction.
2 Peter 3:9. If God desires that none should perish but judges that they will, that means lost soul with perish/ die in their sins.
So you need to really define what spiritual death is aside from separation from God.
God shows us what physical death is, the end of our physical existence. Why wouldn't His definition of spiritual death mean just that, the end of the individual?

There is a fair bit of confusion here.
1. Hades is "in the heart of the earth" which means within the core of the earth -- deep down
Right, the underworld- at least beneath the surface and/or crust of the earth. A prison in dark caves where the immaterial soul experiences darkness, loneliness, torment emotional and with acute conscious awareness (as if his physical self were there).

The Lake of Fire is in "outer darkness" -- outside time and space.
Darkness is symbolic for evil. People live in darkness until Christ sheds the Light. So in darkness the gnashing of teeth is angry cussing, gritting their teeth. Job 10:21-22 describes Sheol as the land of darkness, gloom and deep shadow.

The supernatural fire which destroys the surface of the earth and all things therein has no connection to either of these region.
Are you refering to the final event of 2 Peter 3:10? This is real fire, physical flames and I do believe that Hell is more of an event on earth or just inside where people are actually thrown into the pit, try to escape and cannot. A lave lake comes to mind. The Abyss is opened and the ground splits as it did historically and people are literally burned alive as was Sodom and Gomorah. At this time if you were in space looking at earth, it will look like a lake of fire.

When the Bible says that Death and Hades (personified) are cast into the Lake of Fire, that needs to be properly interpreted. It simply means that death and Hades are terminated
I don't think there is personification here. Death is eliminated, it will not exist and those in Hades will not, they will be destroyed.


At the Great White Throne, all those who were in Hades will be resurrected and judged, then cast into the Lake of Fire in order to experience "the Second Death". This is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.
Well I say age-lasting torment. A piece of paper burns in seconds, other objects take minutes, a physical human body - minutes.
What do you think these resurrected bodies are eternally flame resistant so that they endure with mild 1st first degree burns?

There are several naysayers on this forum who believe in the false doctrine of Annihilationism. But if it were true, there would be no need for the Gospel. All sinners would be simply extinguished -- cease to exist
I don't believe in eternal Hell, I believe in a temporal earth, heavens, death, Hades, the ungodly and Lake of Fire. They will all pass away. They are finite. An err in translation. Actually I remember reading that Luther had a problem with eternal Hell but was warned not to go there by Calvin, said it was too much.
*If Hell is not eternal, then fair justice is reasonable and the end of their being is merciful. Perfect justice for the wicked exists only in a temporal, finite realm. Inheritance of our salvation exists in a perfect eternal realm.
Opps, I said I wasn't going to push the envelope. Enoch, you made me do it!

"Being born aganin, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23
The imperishable seed is spiritual. The body dies but the spirit lives by grace through our faith in Christ. We look forward to a new body like His when He returns for judgment. At the resurrection, only the Christians get to put on the imperishable, immortal bodies. Immortality is life in christ. We are raised a spiritual body. Unbelievers do not recive these spiritual bodies, they are given their old perishable bodies back to be thrown into the Lake of Fire. (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; Romans 2:7)
 
Last edited:

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,116
6,346
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So I am being reminded by your friend..plagiarism of some sorts.
I'm doing a bit of "house cleaning"
J.
It's just a little diddy on disagreement between Christian friends. Spurgeon wrote it, as far as I know. You gotta love reminders -lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,116
6,346
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brother, I stirred up a hornets nest on this topic
Man, this is nothing. You should search for some of the older threads on this subject. Kcnalp hasn't even reared his ugly head yet. lol
No hard feelings from my side...wonder why my "alert button" is not "alerting"
J.
What's an "alert button?" All I have is a link with a drop-down menu. You could just keep a browser tab open with your -Alerts- page loaded up so you can just refresh (F5) it when you want an update. I don't even allow my browser to push notifications. I despise notifications. Nice little geek rant, huh? :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,052
787
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
even satan himself will cease to exist

Ezekiel 28:18
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
It is good to examine the nature of Hell.

Lol!
Examine the nature of Hell? Ol' Bible Highlighter send me a link with over 500 pages to disprove the "eternal torment" and soften the tone to "utter destruction" Ronald, which make me think...wonder how many 7th Day Adventists are there on this forum?
Time for a "reformation" back to holiness I would say.
I have heard that our salvation is a futuristic event and not a present reality..so we have JW's here as well.
Anyway's, don't want to get too far ahead of myself...
Blessings
Johann.