Let's talk about Salvation

[theefaith]

First, there is no Romans 23:11. Second, suffering yes, but that has nothing to do with salvation.

Sorry rom 13:11
Nobody’s perfect

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

been baptized by fire, have ya?

Yes the fire refers to the love of God!
Ez 36:25-27 and
Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

christian ritual of baptism

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)


Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[reformed1689]

Are you

Find a scripture that says baptism is not required for salvation.

Are you really asking to prove a negative?

 

[Grailhunter]

Are you

Are you really asking to prove a negative?

Nope....asking you to be honest....maybe with yourself.....

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21

Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....Acts 2:38....for the forgiveness of your sins....do you believe that you can be saved without getting your sins forgiven?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Read carefully because there is going to be a quiz!

Asking you to explain your belief?
Asking you to explain how your beliefs can be congruent with scriptures?
Or...or admit what you believe is not biblical. Which is your right! Your are in the majority....welcome to the proud crowd!

You need more scriptures?
I got some more!....And we are just talking about baptism....we can go on to repentance and the Bread and Wine ritual next.

There are a lot of things in the Bible that have been debated....30,000 denominations. Whoopie! Not so many if you are knowledgeable. The Way...salvation....The Way to heaven....is one of those things that God stood over and preserved in the scriptures. Because when you get right down to it....that is what is the most important....the rest we will settle in heaven.
Be good and do good!

 

[reformed1689]

Nope....asking you to be honest....maybe with yourself.....

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21

Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....Acts 2:38....for the forgiveness of your sins....do you believe that you can be saved without getting your sins forgiven?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Read carefully because there is going to be a quiz!

Asking you to explain your belief?
Asking you to explain how your beliefs can be congruent with scriptures?
Or...or admit what you believe is not biblical. Which is your right! Your are in the majority....welcome to the proud crowd!

You need more scriptures?
I got some more!....And we are just talking about baptism....we can go on to repentance and the Bread and Wine ritual next.

There are a lot of things in the Bible that have been debated....30,000 denominations. Whoopie! Not so many if you are knowledgeable. The Way...salvation....The Way to heaven....is one of those things that God stood over and preserved in the scriptures. Because when you get right down to it....that is what is the most important....the rest we will settle in heaven.
Be good and do good!

So I ask you again, something you dodged, if someone believes and confesses Christ and is killed on their way to be baptised, are you saying they are not really saved?

 

[reformed1689]

Nope....asking you to be honest....maybe with yourself.....

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21

Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....Acts 2:38....for the forgiveness of your sins....do you believe that you can be saved without getting your sins forgiven?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Read carefully because there is going to be a quiz!

Asking you to explain your belief?
Asking you to explain how your beliefs can be congruent with scriptures?
Or...or admit what you believe is not biblical. Which is your right! Your are in the majority....welcome to the proud crowd!

You need more scriptures?
I got some more!....And we are just talking about baptism....we can go on to repentance and the Bread and Wine ritual next.

There are a lot of things in the Bible that have been debated....30,000 denominations. Whoopie! Not so many if you are knowledgeable. The Way...salvation....The Way to heaven....is one of those things that God stood over and preserved in the scriptures. Because when you get right down to it....that is what is the most important....the rest we will settle in heaven.
Be good and do good!

3:21 A comparison is drawn between salvation in the ark and baptism. In both instances, believers are saved through the waters of judgment, since baptism portrays salvation through judgment. The mere mechanical act of baptism does not save, for Peter explicitly says, “not as a removal of dirt from the body,” meaning that the passing of water over the body does not cleanse anyone. Baptism saves you because it represents inward faith, as evidenced by one’s appeal to God for the forgiveness of one’s sins (for a good conscience). Furthermore, baptism “saves” only insofar as it is grounded in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism is a visual representation of the fact that Christians are clothed with Christ (cf. Gal. 3:27), and in union with Christ they share his victory over sin. Though Christians have disagreed about the proper mode of water baptism beginning in the early history of the church, Christians have generally agreed (irrespective of denominational differences) that water baptism is an outward sign of the inward reality of regeneration, which is the result of the work of the Holy Spirit (cf. John 3:5, 8; Titus 3:5), and which may be received only by grace through faith (see Eph. 2:8).

Crossway Bibles, The ESV Study Bible (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2008), 2411.

 

[theefaith]

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)


Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[Grailhunter]

So I ask you again, something you dodged, if someone believes and confesses Christ and is killed on their way to be baptised, are you saying they are not really saved?

I did answer this...I said find the scenario. The Bible does not answer this so anything "you and I decide" is not biblical. Anything you and I decide is beyond our authority. Anything you and I decide can be open to ridicule. We can make a wish list.

 

[Grailhunter]

3:21 A comparison is drawn between salvation in the ark and baptism. In both instances, believers are saved through the waters of judgment, since baptism portrays salvation through judgment.

This is a fundamental error...
No spiritual salvation in the Old Testament....
God saved the lives of Noah and his family. Heaven was not offered in the OT. Hell was not threatened in the OT and Satan is not defined as a devil in the OT....the Jews still do not believe in Hell or the devil.

The mere mechanical act of baptism does not save, for Peter explicitly says, “not as a removal of dirt from the body,” meaning that the passing of water over the body does not cleanse anyone. Baptism saves you because it represents inward faith, as evidenced by one’s appeal to God for the forgiveness of one’s sins (for a good conscience). Furthermore, baptism “saves” only insofar as it is grounded in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Have you ever noticed that a lie takes a lot more to explain. A lot of words with the intent to deceive.
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21

Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....Acts 2:38....for the forgiveness of your sins....do you believe that you can be saved without getting your sins forgiven?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Very simple and clear scriptures. If you can twist this, you could twist that Christ was crucified.

Here is some more scriptures for you to twist....before long you will be denying the whole Bible. Gee this is fun!

And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. Acts 22:16

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Colossians 2:12-13

Romans 6:1-18

 

[reformed1689]

Heaven was not offered in the OT. Hell was not threatened in the OT and Satan is not defined as a devil in the OT....the Jews still do not believe in Hell or the devil.

Clearly you do not know the Scriptures.

 

[reformed1689]

This is a fundamental error...
No spiritual salvation in the Old Testament....
God saved the lives of Noah and his family. Heaven was not offered in the OT. Hell was not threatened in the OT and Satan is not defined as a devil in the OT....the Jews still do not believe in Hell or the devil.



Have you ever noticed that a lie takes a lot more to explain. A lot of words with the intent to deceive.
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1st Peter 3:21

Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....Acts 2:38....for the forgiveness of your sins....do you believe that you can be saved without getting your sins forgiven?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Very simple and clear scriptures. If you can twist this, you could twist that Christ was crucified.

Here is some more scriptures for you to twist....before long you will be denying the whole Bible. Gee this is fun!

And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. Acts 22:16

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Colossians 2:12-13

Romans 6:1-18

Clearly you have been brainwashed by heretics and there is no point in continuing this conversation. If you want to trust a heretical church, by all means, but know the gates of hell will be waiting.

 

[reformed1689]

I did answer this...I said find the scenario. The Bible does not answer this so anything "you and I decide" is not biblical. Anything you and I decide is beyond our authority. Anything you and I decide can be open to ridicule. We can make a wish list.

The Bible DOES answer this. Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation. Do you believe the thief on the cross was saved?

 

[amadeus]

been baptized by fire, have ya?

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matt 3:11

Do you suppose Jesus lit wooden torch and then used it to completely burn each person who came to him?

 

[Grailhunter]

Clearly you do not know the Scriptures.

Oh my!

Clearly you have been brainwashed by heretics and there is no point in continuing this conversation. If you want to trust a heretical church, by all means, but know the gates of hell will be waiting.

Prove me wrong.,...LOL

 

[amadeus]

So I ask you again, something you dodged, if someone believes and confesses Christ and is killed on their way to be baptised, are you saying they are not really saved?

If a person's heart is right before God and God's really requires baptism in water for salvation, do you believe that God would allow the person to be killed before he was able to fulfill the requirement?

God knows what we need better than we do. He will not stop us from proceeding toward Him but indeed He will help us if we really hungry and thirsty for the right things... right?

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

 

[Grailhunter]

Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation.

Find the scriptures.

Do you believe the thief on the cross was saved?

Does the Bible say He was saved or that He went to paradise?
Either way if you are next to a God....pretty much anything can happen.
And I would not recommend crucifixion as a method of being saved.

Effort, lots and lots of effort to deny and twist scripture.....maybe not your effort....maybe you have been taught this....all this twisting and denying usually is to support one of the three abominations....Calvinism....OSAS....or Jehovah's Witness.

 

[reformed1689]

Find the scriptures.



Does the Bible say He was saved or that He went to paradise?
Either way if you are next to a God....pretty much anything can happen.
And I would not recommend crucifixion as a method of being saved.

Effort, lots and lots of effort to deny and twist scripture.....maybe not your effort....maybe you have been taught this....all this twisting and denying usually is to support one of the three abominations....Calvinism....OSAS....or Jehovah's Witness.

Catholic is the abomnination here. Heretical false church that is so arrogant that they think they alone hold the keys to Heaven.

 

[reformed1689]

If a person's heart is right before God and God's really requires baptism in water for salvation, do you believe that God would allow the person to be killed before he was able to fulfill the requirement?

God knows what we need better than we do. He will not stop us from proceeding toward Him but indeed He will help us if we really hungry and thirsty for the right things... right?

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

I agree, but Baptism is not a requirement of salvation in scripture unless you look in the twisted works based salvation of the heretical catholic church.

 

[reformed1689]

Oh my!


Prove me wrong.,...LOL

Well the fact that the Bible does not list baptism as a requirement pretty much proves you wrong. The verses that you post do not say what you say they do in your brainwashed Catholic perversion of Scripture.

 

[amadeus]

I agree,

OK

but Baptism is not a requirement of salvation in scripture unless you look in the twisted works based salvation of the heretical catholic church.

I guess I won't argue that point with you. We have done it before.

If you remember our previous discussions you may recall where I am on this. You would not hear me then and I don't expect you have changed.

On the other hand, I guess you might also say that I won't hear you. While I believe that I have changed, it is not on anything related to this.

Remember always that God gives any increase that matters.
We need to be listening to Him!