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Logical reason to believe in God

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Jennifer Rogers, Apr 8, 2022.

  1. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    I bet it stings like the dickens that no verse exists to support this concocted statement.

    Comforting to know that there are too many verses to count that support the concept of God being one God, with "no god beside Him."

    In the same chapter that Jesus introduces the father of lies, He speaks to the jews about God the Father and makes clear exactly who He, Himself, is.

    "And He said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He (God the Father, The Almighty of Old, The Rock of Ages, Desire of all Nations, The Ancient of Days), ye shall die in your sins."
    John 8:23-24
    Oneness Doctrine is a Pentecostal construct. I'm not Pentecostal.

    I just go with what Scripture has to say about it, no matter who it offends.

    You, on the other hand, who hail from beneath, can't bare to disappoint your fellow man whom you receive honor from only - who also tows the party line that the trinity is the underlying significance of all scripture.

    What a crock.

    "I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in My Father's Name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."
    John 5:41-43
     
  2. Titus

    Titus Active Member

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    Agreed. 1John 5:7
     
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  3. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    We can do this all day long in another thread.

    I don't think Jennifer would appreciate us going at it in hers.

    You were shooting for the Johannine Comma but you missed it by a space.

    Speaking of: which represents the water and which represents the blood?

    Water symbolizes spirit in Scripture, but spirit is already mentioned in that verse. Is it the Father or the Son that represents the blood?

    Looks like you've got some holes in your cheese.
     
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  4. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    The foundation for being Perfect is simple conceptually. Learn the 10 Commandments and strive to obey them.

    It's ok if you stumble, as James 3:2 tells us, as long as you are making an honest effort. Remember, it is God you are living to impress, not man. That's why He asks us to pray in private. That's how He knows it is from the heart and not from some prideful place.

    Living in any habitual sin is not making an effort. Strive to obey and pray for help; that's exactly what the Holy Spirit is for.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 tells us obedience to the Commandments is the whole duty of mankind. You will hear endlessly that we cannot possibly obey them, but familiarize yourself with them and you will see how simple God has made it.

    1. Only worship God
    2. Don't worship demons (idols)
    3. Don't use God's name in vain
    4. Observe the 7th Day Saturday Sabbath
    5. Honor parents
    6. Don't murder
    7. No adultery
    8. Don't steal
    9. Don't lie to bring shame/harm upon another
    10. Don't covet others' things

    It's just a choice; like everything else.
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Forums are a strange thing.

    It is obvious that you have the best of intentions in sharing those things of God that we can indeed love and live by...and for that reason, I have compassion toward you and your cause. Do not be discouraged by the challenges here. Most here also have good intentions (most). But by the nature of a forum, you are likely to get what appears to be a lot of flack. Sorry for that. It's not you--it's just that it's kind of a dumping ground...kinda like the world.

    Keep doing good!
     
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  6. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Thank you , it helps to know that you are in the process of learning. :) Sorry for the gap but I am in Australia and we have very different time zones.....

    These forums will give you new and challenging concepts to evaluate as you study. You will be exposed to a variety of interpretation and your own heart will lead you to the truth if God is guiding you. (John 6:65)
    Trying to be “perfect” is difficult because we are not. Fighting the flaws in our nature is also challenging, but God wants you to be “obedient”, he doesn’t expect you to be perfect....that is a recipe for disappointment.

    Keep your mind and heart open and pray as you consider these new concepts. God wants you to understand who he is from the only source of factual information we have...the Bible. You will be bombarded with opinions and these have to be taken at face value because the truth from the Bible should never be presented as bullying someone into submission, which unfortunately some here are prone to do. Jesus offered his truth to people on a “take it or leave it” basis. He never forced people to accept his teachings...their hearts did that. So with that in mind, evaluate all these opinions and your own heart will lead you to accept certain things and reject others.

    I could never be angry with anyone who is genuinely seeking the truth....we are all in a perpetual state of learning and no one can say that they know it all, but understanding the big picture before we start gives you the picture on the box to show you where all the pieces of the puzzle fit.

    Ask questions and evaluate the answers....never close your mind because your heart will close with it.

    I look forward to further discussions with you. :)
     
  7. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Us Aussies can be considered “abrasive” or even “rude” at times but this is cultural rather than a deliberate attempt to be “abrasive” or “rude”....we are not really big on tip-toeing around people’s sensibilities to the extent of being seen to be “politically correct”...we just tell it like it is. No offense intended.

    I assume this is directed towards me Gen2Rev?

    Concerning the witch of Endor who supposedly contacted the spirit of Samuel.....firstly, communication with the dead was forbidden in God’s law and this was the reason why Saul had difficulty finding a spirit medium. He was the King who threw them out of the land under God’s instruction. Deuteronomy 18:9-12 identifies all of the spiritistic practices that were common in the land of Canaan and all were forbidden to God’s people. Would God prevent communication with spirits if they really were who they claim to be?
    Satan is a master deceiver so it was he who said “you surely will not die’…but God told Adam that he “surely” would….so who lied? Do the dead live on or do they “sleep” as the Bible writers and even Jesus himself said? (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; John 11:11-14)

    If you read the account, you will see that the woman who was the spirit medium was the only one who saw and heard this “spirit”. Can the spirits who can impersonate the dead be relied upon to tell us the truth? They know everything about everyone so deception is their game.
    It was not Samuel who spoke to the spirit medium….but a demonic spirit who impersonated him.
    Saul was lost spiritually and was desperate to know what was happening. The living prophets would not speak to Saul so why would a dead Samuel do so? God had abandoned him.

    The fact that the previous chapters contain all parables and there is nothing to indicate that this was different. So what did this parable mean? Read it and see that if taken literally, it makes no sense.
    But if you can see the illustration for what Jesus was relating, it was nothing to do with death and hell.

    The rich man was not said to be wicked nor was the beggar said to be righteous.
    Jesus was referring to the rich and privileged class of the Pharisees and contrasting them with the ones who were spiritually impoverished because the rich man did not care about them and they were forced to subsist only on the few crumbs that fell from his table.
    Their “deaths” were an exchange of places....the Pharisees lost their place in God’s arrangement (pictured by the expression “Abraham’s bosom” which was a position of favor) and the those pictured by the beggar (the “lost sheep” to whom Jesus was sent) found favor with God by accepting Jesus as their Savior.

    To suggest that ‘heaven and hell’ (hades) are in speaking distance to one another is a bit ridiculous since “hades” is nothing more than the common grave of mankind. There is no continuation of life after death.....no immortal soul to exist elsewhere in some other place. Death is just a peaceful sleep.

    God never contrasted “heaven and hell” as opposite destinations in his word. The Jews had no such belief that was outlined in their scriptures. Jesus was Jewish, and he used those scriptures to instruct his disciples. Though he opened up a new concept regarding the destiny of those chosen to rule with Christ in heaven, (his elect) but it never altered the hope that was held out to the rest. We can talk about the two resurrections if you wish....?

    This requires careful study and an understanding of what the ancient Jews were taught. God’s first purpose was to have human beings, unsullied by sin, to inhabit and maintain paradise on earth. This life was to be everlasting because the “tree of life” was there in the garden to guarantee that mortal life would continue forever. (Genesis 3:22-24) Only disobedience would separate them from God and bar them from the tree of life. No other mention of death is made.

    When God brings in the rulership of his Kingdom, the Revelation tells us that God’s first purpose will be restored and access to the trees of life will again be offered to obedient mankind.
    Revelation 21:3-4....
    “And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” (ESV)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
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  8. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    This has been my opinion as well for many years.
    Isaiah 66:24 seems to contradict this, especially since it is after the New Heaven and New Earth. Isaiah 66:22

    But it is still a bit of a mystery.

    If it ever interests you, there is a lot of good info, in my thread that I mentioned, that addresses a lot of the rest of what you posted here. If there is not an eternal soul inherent in all mankind, which I am almost convinced of now, that means that man must be indwelt with something from God prior to resurrection - which is exactly what Jesus explains repeatedly in John 6.

    The kicker? That would mean that only Christians can be resurrected.

    That is huge.

    Thanks for the response.
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    While this is off topic, it needs to be addressed, just like a virus needs to be killed as soon as possible. This false doctrine has already been thoroughly debunked, yet you continue to promote it. Which means that you are one of the false teachers (or wolves in sheep's clothing). So pay close attention to what Jesus said in John 5:28,29: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; [1] they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and [2] they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    1. Is there a resurrection of damnation? Absolutely.
    2. Who are those who will be resurrected for this resurrection? "Those that have done evil".
    3. Is unbelief and rejection of Christ and the Gospel "evil"? Absolutely.
    4. Will all evildoers then be resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment? Absolutely.
    5. Does this make GEN2REV a liar? Absolutely.
     
  10. Jennifer Rogers

    Jennifer Rogers Active Member

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    yes, I will try to learn a lot so that I can understand more about god :)
     
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  11. Jennifer Rogers

    Jennifer Rogers Active Member

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    Thank you, I'm also glad to see you and everyone on the forum. Here I learned a lot of things. God will bless you and everyone in the World. Amen.
     
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  12. Jennifer Rogers

    Jennifer Rogers Active Member

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    yes, I am trying to learn to be a Christian. So thank you and everyone who gave me good advice.
     
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  13. Jennifer Rogers

    Jennifer Rogers Active Member

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    Thank you for the advice, I am also very happy and learned a lot after talking with you.
     
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  14. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Another personally judgmental post Enoch? :rolleyes:
    Since when has God appointed you as judge of anyone? Your false doctrine has never been proven by you or anyone else. None of you have "debunked" anything except in your own imagination.
    Seems to me that the heretics are the first to accuse others of heresy....

    Perhaps you are the one who needs to pay close attention....
    Time to lose that dinosaur of a Bible you keep quoting from. There is no such thing as "damnation".

    The word in Greek is "krisis" and it means "judgment", not damnation because it means that the period of judgment may lead to a change in attitude for the resurrected ones. God is not about "damnation"...he is about forgiveness and repentance. He will punish no one for the sake of it. Punishments under God's law were to move the sinner to repent so that forgiveness could take place. Read about Manasseh.....or the city of Nineveh. [​IMG]

    Yes, raised with a clean slate, forgiven of all former sins and given a period of judgment in order to come to know the God that they were perhaps never taught about.

    Romans 6:23 says that "the wages of sin is death", so the dead have paid sin's wages and now are 'acquitted' or 'pardoned' of any past wrongdoing, especially what was committed in ignorance.

    Romans 6:7...
    "For one who has died has been set free from sin." No damnation.


    Rejection of Christ as the appointed King of God's Kingdom and as the Son of God who was sent to save all of mankind is essential for salvation. This shows that they respect his Father as God and rightful Sovereign.
    There are only two categories of people who will perish at the coming judgment when Jesus "separates the sheep from the goats"....

    2 Thessalonians 1:6-9...
    "since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might". (ESV)


    So those who do not know God, (because they don't want to).....and those who know God, but fail to obey the good news about our Lord Jesus, will regret their failures. It is eternal "destruction" ("olethros") that they will suffer. That is not "danmation"....it is eternal death.

    I have no idea what you think the "Great White Throne Judgment" is, but I will assume by what you write that you have no idea....it doesn't mean that all evildoers will be resurrected at all. Paul said it was "both the righteous and the unrighteous" who would be resurrected (Acts 24:15)...."the wicked" however, are consigned to "gehenna"....these will experience "the second death"...one from which no resurrection is possible.


    Be careful how you judge others Enoch, God will hand you the same judgment.
     
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  15. Titus

    Titus Active Member

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    So, we can be led to God by our own heart?
    Proverbs 14:12
     
  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    apparently Yah said you are God too, I said “you are Elohim”
    kinda weird huh
     
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  17. Titus

    Titus Active Member

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    Aunty Jane, how does God guide one to the truth?
     
  18. Titus

    Titus Active Member

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    Heres the answer Aunty Jane,
    Romans 10:14
    How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
    And how shall they hear without a preacher?
     
  19. Titus

    Titus Active Member

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    Faith comes by hearing the what?
    Romans 10:16-17
    But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord who has believed our report?
    So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    The scriptures teach we only come to know the truth not by our own feelings but by the word of God ie the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    It must be taught to us!
    We don't ever know without hearing, teaching of the gospel.
     
  20. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    More than happy to discuss this at length in the thread I posted.

    It's false to label me a liar when I present specific verses to support each and every point I propose. It's an ongoing investigation and nobody has debunked it yet.

    Pre-Mils who feel desperately threatened by it are posting comments just like this one of yours, but none of them have successfully/thoroughly proven it incorrect via Scripture.

    This verse that you all keep throwing out says that the resurrection takes place in a specific hour of time and that some of those will be resurrected to life and some to damnation. It says that those who are raised will hear Jesus' voice, but Jesus tells us that only His sheep can hear His voice.

    So there's plenty legitimate discussion on the topic yet to be had.

    Calling people names and angrily stomping your feet doesn't dispute the concept using God's Word.

    I invite you to my thread to discuss it in detail if you have any new material to contribute.
     
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