Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

[Big Boy Johnson]

non sequitur.

Wow, so it matters not if one mocks God and claims something He says is false... interesting.

 

[Hillsage]

Not a bad hypothesis, but do you have any Scriptural support beyond Hosea 7?

Actually Hosea had nothing to do with the actual doctrine. It was just a cool verse to throw into the mix of 140 pages in this thread which has done 'what' concerning anyone's opinion? I'm curious, has anyone reversed their indoctrinated position, based upon these 140 pages? I ask, because I just got here and really wish I could have been in at the very start. Right now I have 3 unanswered texts, which is my biggest problem. We're headed to Branson for a family weekend meeting of 18.

 

[Hillsage]

So is one that has been "saved of the spirit" as you say.... were to go back to living in sin, this means they will go to Heaven anyway?

That is the position that I have rested in for many decades now. I never did any 'work' worthy of going to heaven. Jesus did. He was our meritorious and substitutional atoning sacrifice. We go based upon His righteousness.

 

[Hillsage]

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Your argument is with the things the Lord has said that... you reject or otherwise ignore or attempt to explain way away

Here's some more instructions for Christians in God's Word you can attempt to explain away but with no success in doing so....

GAL 6:7 Be not led astray; God is not mocked; for what a man may sow - that also he shall reap,
8 because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during;

Note, nothing is said here about the spirit being lost. The problem is, just exactly what sSpirit is this verse even talking about? Most will say the Holy Spirit of God. I don't. I believe it is the holy spirit of Christ in me. Translators add capitalization based upon their own indoctrination, which is very unfortunate.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

And when I don't abide I backslide. But not in my born again "sSpirit", only in my soul. As a result there will be 'temporal' consequences to my soul and body. My soul will loose temporally and my body will also pay a price temporally...then eternally. That's why Christians have died for the last 2000 years. No one has walked in the perfection of sinlessness which we are called to.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

There is "YOU in Christ" the hope of salvation in the hereafter. But there is also "Christ IN YOU" for salvation promises here and now.

GAL 4:19 My little children (babes in Christ), with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Just like the prodigal son, though....we never lost our RELATIONSHIP as children, We only lost our FELLOWSHIP with the Father.

LUK 15:24 for this my son/relationship was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to make merry.
He was never "dead" in relationship....only FELLOWSHIP. and the only inheritance squandered was an earthly temporal one.

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Your 1/2 quote of this verse leads to a whole lie. Does it not?

1JO 2:1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; BUT IF ANYONE DOES SIN, we have an
advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Jesus is our advocate because we go to heaven on His imputed righteousness and not our imparted walk of His righteousness.

1JO 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;
7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Your sins here and now won't be cleansed from temporal judgment, but your sin will still be just as ETERNALLY FORGIVEN.

This is the answer to your big letter questions homie.

I hope this is a good start. We just pulled in to Branson.

 

[marks]

GAL 6:7 Be not led astray; God is not mocked; for what a man may sow - that also he shall reap,
8 because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during;

Note, nothing is said here about the spirit being lost. The problem is, just exactly what sSpirit is this verse even talking about? Most will say the Holy Spirit of God. I don't. I believe it is the holy spirit of Christ in me. Translators add capitalization based upon their own indoctrination, which is very unfortunate.

I wonder that this passage is being misunderstood by some.

If you sow to your flesh, you will increase the corruption of your flesh. If you sow to the spirit, you will increase your participation in eternal life, here in this life.

And you are exactly correct, this verse does not teach the born again dying again.

Parallel passage . . .

Galatians 2:17-18 KJV
17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I never did any 'work' worthy of going to heaven.

Never did, and never will! None of us ever will. So being accepted by God because we've been good boys is a sham.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

Wow, so it matters not if one mocks God and claims something He says is false... interesting.

Why not just answer the simple questions:

Do you claim that only those that live lives of SINLESS PERFECTION are saved?
Does just one sin disqualify you from heaven?

 

[Hillsage]

That's really insightful!

I hope others will take the time to think through what you are saying here. Rightly divided.

Much love!

Up before the family so may get a short post in.

"RIGHTLY DIVIDED" is a good word Marks. If we take scriptures talking about the spirit and apply them to the soul then we have divided incorrectly and the sum of such reasoning will not only harm correct 'doctrinal' knowledge of the truth, but it will also divide the many membered body (singular)of Christ which 'we' are.

2TI 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

So how can we shed light on the "babblings" that "will "increase unto more ungodliness."? Which is a very valid question of those here who don't believe in OSAS. So let me just unpack my understanding of this verse above concerning how we approach the "study" of scripture.

"Study" SRN 4704 spoudazo: to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest

This does not support being buried in books of religion and doctrine, just so we can out argue someone who is dumber but actually believes 'the truth' of scripture.

Now let me unpack the second word "approved".

"approved" SRN 4704 dokimos: prop. acceptable (current after assayal), i.e. approved

The word “approved” in the Greek refers to being ‘tested’ or assayed 'as to being the real thing'. You are not "approved" just because you give lip service to a 'correct’ doctrinal statement of faith. You are "approved" if ‘what you talk/believe’ manifests, when you are ‘tested’. But if you fail the temptation or 'test' of your faith, and compromise in your ‘faith walk’ you then show yourself to be un-approved. And it matters not one bit if what you 'say you believe' is true or not.

On the day of judgement, you will not be judged for your TALK, but for your WALK. The question is which day of judgment we're talking about? It is the "judgment seat of Christ". And that Greek word for Judgment is BEMA.

ROM 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment/BEMA seat of Christ.

2CO 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment/BEMA seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

All 12 verses in the bible using BEMA/judgment seats were on earthly thrones except the two times where it's the seat of Christ judging our earthly works.

Walking the walk is ‘approved’ Christianity. Scripture approved of the son who spoke it wrong and walked it right ‘in his father’s vineyard', but scripture condemns the son who 'spoke it right and walked it wrong', by never going to his father's vineyard. (Matt 21:28-31). One approved, the other not approved, both still sons of their father.

One for Him, and Him for all.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Why not just answer the simple questions:

Why bother?

You said it was a "non sequitur"

those here who don't believe in OSAS

... are pointing out to adherents of OSAS doctrine simply that, there's more to the picture than what you have.

Anytime one takes a handful of happy verses and ignores the rest of what God says on any subject... they are in error because their beliefs tell God that some of the stuff He says is irrelevant and not import.

On the day of judgement, you will not be judged for your TALK, but for your WALK

That's not what most OSAS people believe... most of them say our actions are irrelevant because that think we are saved by grace alone... which is why they believe if one lives in sin, they are still saved.

One approved, the other not approved, both still sons of their father.

So those NOT approved of the Father because they sowed to the flesh (lived in sin) did NOT reap corrugation and are allowed in to Heaven anyway?

Since this is the OSAS position...the the OSAS peoples need to embrace so called gay christians, child molesting christians, murdering christians, drunken christians, dope smokin christians, thieving christians, etc, etc.

You people have no right to claim those doing any of these things are not saved (they claim to be saved by faith alone) if you TRULY believe one can sow to the flesh and not reap corruption which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

Your position is obviously... we do NOT reap what we sow which is direct opposition to the Lord!

 

[Hillsage]

... are pointing out to adherents of OSAS doctrine simply that, there's more to the picture than what you have.

Don’t you see that i am pointing out the error of both sides?

There’s an old saying that when a prophet points a finger at the moon it is a fool who only sees the finger.

Anytime one takes a handful of happy verses and ignores the rest of what God says on any subject... they are in error because their beliefs tell God that some of the stuff He says is irrelevant and not import.

It is also true that when one “takes a handful of UNHAPPY VERSES AND IGNORES THE REST…they too are in error.”

That's not what most OSAS people believe... most of them say our actions are irrelevant because that think we are saved by grace alone... which is why they believe if one lives in sin, they are still saved.

I am not JUST a OSAS, believer. I am bringing a two finger POV to this century’s old debate which has divided the church for millennia with two 1/2 true doctrines.

So those NOT approved of the Father because they sowed to the flesh (lived in sin) did NOT reap corrugation and are allowed in to Heaven anyway?

I believe you are looking for the word Corruption, not corurugation. Because corruption is what has happened to every Christian who has died for 2,000 years experienced it. Only the flesh Jesus did not see corruption/decay in the grave. (Psalm 16:10)

Since this is the OSAS position...the the OSAS peoples need to embrace so called gay christians, child molesting christians, murdering christians, drunken christians, dope smokin christians, thieving christians, etc, etc.

It’s called hating the sin and loving the sinner. I learned from my savior and saint Stephen when he was being stoned to death.

You people have no right to claim those doing any of these things are not saved (they claim to be saved by faith alone) if you TRULY believe one can sow to the flesh and not reap corruption which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

I addressed your Galatians verse in post 144 , and you refuted it with nothing. And did you not "mock scripture" with your 1/2 quote of the verse in 1 John 2:1 which I also called you on in post 144, along with the blatant 1/2 truth/lie you were 'leading' brethren to with that 1/2 verse quote. IMO ANYWAY.

Your position is obviously... we do NOT reap what we sow which is direct opposition to the Lord!

Hang a round, you have proved to me that you know little about what i believe.

 

[marks]

Does just one sin disqualify you from heaven?

Of course one sin disqualifies you from knowing God. But we are reconciled in Christ. This argument cheapens His reconciliation, and that's sad!

Much love!

 

[Hillsage]

Of course one sin disqualifies you from knowing God. But we are reconciled in Christ. This argument cheapens His reconciliation, and that's sad!

Much love!

You surprised me Marks. If "one sin disqualifies you from knowing God", then how did you ever GET TO KNOW GOD, in the first place? Think about that question and get back to me.

 

[marks]

You surprised me Marks. If "one sin disqualifies you from knowing God", then how did you ever GET TO KNOW GOD, in the first place? Think about that question and get back to me.

God's grace.

This is what I think those who believe that salvation can be lost fail to realize, the seriousness of sin. Unless our sin is completely and fully dealt with, we don't have a prayer of seeing God, except for Him to condemn us.

"Behold, the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world!" That's how. Jesus took away our sin completely and fully. Not partly, as though we could be partly holy or partly righteous, no, if we are to know God, to be with Him, we have to be fully righteous, fully holy, and there is one way, and one way only that can happen, and that is if we receive such in Christ.

What I find in complete disagreement with Scripture is this notion that our behavior now has any affect on our reconciliation to God in Christ.

We were not reconciled based on our behavior, or our thoughts, or anything to do with us. God reconciled us to Himself long before we were even born, and even then we were His enemies.

What we do now, what we think, it will certainly affect our relationships with God and others, and will affect our fruitfulness in this life, but it has nothing to do with our reconciliation to God. That was through Jesus Christ.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Don’t you see that i am pointing out the error of both sides?

Only the OSAS side contains errors... and lots of them!

It is also true that when one “takes a handful of UNHAPPY VERSES AND IGNORES THE REST…they too are in error.”

No, we accept the happy verses and the unhappy verses.... put them all together and we find God's promises are in fact conditional.

I believe you are looking for the word Corruption, not corurugation. Because corruption is what has happened to every Christian who has died for 2,000 years experienced it. Only the flesh Jesus did not see corruption/decay in the grave. (Psalm 16:10)

You're speaking of the physical body...

If a Christian sins... they reap spiritual corruption right NOW in the form of being separated from God spiritually right now because the wages of sin is death and this is speaking of spiritual death... which is to be separated from the Lord.

When Adam and Eve committed sin, they died spiritually and were separated from God resulting in them becoming UN-righteous or no longer in right standing with the Lord which is spiritual death.

Jesus said if one does not abide in Him, they are cut off (see John 15)... when one sins, they are cut of and become spiritually dead because nobody abiding in Christ is doing sinful things.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God is not mocked... we shall reap what we sow (just like Adam and Eve!), if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shal of the flesh reap corruption because....sin in the flesh has been condemned (Romans 8:3)

Hang a round, you have proved to me that you know little about what i believe.

If you are an advocate of the OSAS position... then you believe that if we so to the flesh we do not reap corruption which is spiritual death, being separated from God because of our sin.

Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

We're talking about what the Lord says in His word so don't start taking things personal.

None of this is about you or me... it's about what God has said in His Word.

 

[Ritajanice]

Unfortunately..there are some who imo/ belief...doesn’t understand being Born Again, which is a Living Spiritual Birth.

God’s word already says when we are Born Again, we will not continue to sin...we have been “ Birthed in the Spirit “...I’m asking myself why some aren’t understanding this.

In fact some never mention Born Again, that’s a red flag to me...they don’t want to discuss it either..

A Born Again is connected to the true vine, as they have been “ Birthed in the Spirit “...they will NEVER lose their salvation...as they are Born Again then saved....

We have the indwelling Holy Spirit who has taken up residence in our Spirit...the Spirit of God gave life to our spirit, when he birthed us in the Spirit...

We are Alive in Christ....

We have been set free from spiritual death..therefore has no hold over us.

We have the Holy Spirit as our guide and helper, who is in our spirit...we can do nothing without him....

As soon as we become Born Again...the Holy Spirit who is in us and starts the sanctification process.

We are being made into the image of Jesus by his power and only his power...

It’s imperative to know that a Born Again can never be UN- BIRTHED......

The guy imo, is reading scripture through his own lens, imo/ belief...

 

[Hillsage]

"Behold, the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world!" That's how. Jesus took away our sin completely and fully. Not partly, as though we could be partly holy or partly righteous, no, if we are to know God, to be with Him, we have to be fully righteous, fully holy, and there is one way, and one way only that can happen, and that is if we receive such in Christ.

What I find in complete disagreement with Scripture is this notion that our behavior now has any affect on our reconciliation to God in Christ.

We were not reconciled based on our behavior, or our thoughts, or anything to do with us. God reconciled us to Himself long before we were even born, and even then we were His enemies.

What we do now, what we think, it will certainly affect our relationships with God and others, and will affect our fruitfulness in this life, but it has nothing to do with our reconciliation to God. That was through Jesus Christ.

Much love!

God's grace.

This is what I think those who believe that salvation can be lost fail to realize, the seriousness of sin. Unless our sin is completely and fully dealt with, we don't have a prayer of seeing God, except for Him to condemn us.

Scripture doesn't say "just grace". It says;
EPH 2:8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

So, here's my take, it doesn't just take 'grace' which is not "undeserved favor" as the church unbiblically defines the word. IMO Grace is 'the power to achieve whatever God's truth demands'. And the next question then is WHOSE FAITH enables us to make that first confession of faith?

ROM 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, WE HAVE PEACE with God THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have ACCESS by FAITH into this GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

ROM 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

GAL 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ,

GAL 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith OF Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
And if He doesn't give you His faith too believe, you will not believe. For it is not by YOUR WILL that you are born into the family of God. It is by HIS WILL.

JOH 1:13 Which were born (in context born AGAIN), not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Silver Dollar city now, have to go.

 

[Ritajanice]

You must be Born Again, then you are saved, it’s that simple.

One must receive that spiritual birth, that only God can do, through the Holy Spirit.

It’s a Living spiritual birth!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

EPH 2:8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

And... it's THRU faith that one can have grace.

Those that quit walking in faith going back to sin have no more grace.

They must REPENT and turn away from their sin to be in right standing with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello a conversation had earlier.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


If any man hears the voice of God and hears the knock, and opens the door. Jesus says he will come in to dine with him, and that you would also dine with him. For as long you desire this to go on. You can ask the Lord Jesus to leave, by turning away from him and asking him to go back out the door, he will leave (remember the place that asked Jesus to leave and he did so). However, he continues to stand there at the door and knock.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Also found in Revelation, is where the Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, (those who turn), Come. And him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. And open invitation to others by your invitations to talk about God, or the Lord perhaps giving encouragement to their spirit in them and fortify their faith to continue to trust in God by abiding in Christ, and also give freely the eternal bread, and eternal waters similar to how the apostles did when they had stopped in the desert to feed the 5,000.

 

[Hillsage]

@BIG BOY JOHNSON:

Those that quit walking in faith going back to sin have no more grace.

Study your Bible as I have and learn the SCRIPTURAL DIFFERENCE between being “OF the faith” versus being “IN the faith” and you will learn that which your lens cannot see. I am a citizen OF THE United States even if I am not ‘walking IN THE United States’. IOW the Bible proves you wrong with your 1/2 truth/lie doctrinal stance if you can plumb the depths of scripture.

They must REPENT and turn away from their sin to be in right standing with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

As i stated at the beginning, you do not understand the difference scripturally between ‘temporal’ forgiveness here and now in this world versus eternal forgiveness in the hereafter.

Tell me, were the sins of people baptized by John forgiven eternally or temporally?

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Don't quote an old covenant scripture from proverbs to prove what changed in the New Covenant.