Love fulfills the law
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Interesting religion you are following..they teach you, that Jesus lets you sin...(transgress His law) 1st John...mjrhealth said:
Never said He did, you missed the whole point of what He did,and by the way Jesus and God have no religion. You will find no "law keepers" in heaven only Gods children. jesus never came to stop you from sinning, there is no sinle scripture that says that, he came so you would not be condemned by it. But those like you who choose the law, reject grace and so are condmend by your sin, but you would rather forsake all teh best things that God has to offer so you can please your flesh. Fine, just do not lay that stumbling block before those whom choose life in Jesus not death by the law, which is all teh law has to offer.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And that is how we lknow those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh.
Your missing out and I cant understnad why you would choose death over life???
Good to see you still around ^_^.ATP said:
As HTE quoted James 2:19, it makes it clear that 'belief' needs to be qaulified. I am not going to disagree with you ATP, this is an issue that takes time to sink in (not that I fully grasp it myself). But what is crystal clear to me is the fact that we are still humans. Humans tend to think they are fine with God when they are not. God definitely wants us to be confident in Him and our salvation. I like quoting Eph 3:18 and 1 Cor 12:3 for this. . But ...here is the problem.....many call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit. Many believe without hating what is evil. They are all in for a shocking wake up call.
This is why I say that OSAS is true but only from God's persective. We can never be too confident that we have made it. Yes 1 Cor 10:12 has to do with temptation. Doesn't change the meaning. What if temptation is to continue in a mortal sin?
We know we are right with God because we judge ourselves for true love. Genuine love is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good Rom 12:9. Belief and faith then follow. Cart after horse.
Matt 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.StanJ said:
Do you believe Jesus would have stopped the woman from being stoned to death if He never saw the right heart condition? If He knew she would not go and sin no more?
mjrhealth said:
We are not God.
There is NO grace for those that HATE God and think they are saved because they have the ability to convince themselves that Jesus exists.mjrhealth said:
Jesus seeing our heart has EVERYTHING to do with our salvation. Salvation is a gift to those who actually love Him. Genuine love is to HATE what is evil and CLING to what is good Rom 12:9.
God does not tell me I am saved. He told Paul to tell me to work out my salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. He told Paul to tell me that if I continue in mortal sins I need to have a realistic expectation of hell 1 Cor 6:1-13 (Vs 1-8 suggests a grievous case for the sins mentioned in vs 9-13). He said those who think they are / profess to be Christians but continue in a mortal sin should be kicked out of church / we should not even eat with such a person 1 Cor 5:11.mjrhealth said:
Now if you or anyone wants to jump on me again for grasping it is mortal sins that upsets Him. Just ask yourself if Paul would have dedicated 1 Cor 5 to a person guilty of the terrible evil of giving their kid too much candy
.IE We know we are saved only after a session of harsh self judgment. This is what we preach from the pulpit.
The law was fulfilled when Jesus paid the price for sin. Only he could as Hebrews clearly shows us. This is one reason why the levitical priesthood no longer exists, as Jesus was a different type of high priest in the order of Melchizedek. Jesus fulfilled the law by satisfying the requirements of the law. Jesus didn't fulfill the law in order to continue it as Lou clearly teaches in Hebrews. It was obvious that Jesus stopped the stoning because he knew the woman was innocent. However all he did was say those without sin cast the first stone. Thankfully nobody was willing to demonstrate that they thought themselves sinless. However today it appears that there are many people who think themselves sinless. They probably would have stole this woman had they been given the opportunity.KingJ said:
I agree with this but explain it like this: God's law was He hates X, Y and Z. The curse of the law which the Jews were under was that they were punished for disrespecting what He hates with varying degrees of punishment and if obedient, varying degrees of blessings. That is what Jesus set them free from. The whole 'promise basis'' in dealing with God. Good = promise of blessing. Bad = promise of punishment. Their heart condition was completely irrelevant under the old covenant. Elders and prophets over-seeing the execution of punishments could not ever apply Psalm 51:17. God's law remains from day 1 to infinity.StanJ said:
There are many men who would disagree with taht statement, but it is no excuse for not beleieving God.
Do you know Gods heart??? and whom are you reffering to, al men sin doesnt mean they hate God.
But that makes no one perfect. Only Christ was perfect we are not, not one of us. Hating what is evil doesnt stop one from having bad thought, getting mad, making mistakes, that is all the flesh it is why Christ condemend sin to the flesh, we are pefect in spirit yet walk teh world in our flesh. it sucks but that is how it will be till our time comes, and beating ones self with whips to bring the flesh into submission does nothing.
Christ died so we would not be condemend,
sorry long post
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Wonderful religion you got there mJrh....the Jesus you follow lets you sin and sin, because he loves you so much...(BTW sin is transgression of God's law, the ten commandments, as per 1st John...)..but you don't have to worry about those pesky ten commandments do you,..your jesus doesn't worry about your transgressions...interesting, but non Biblical theology you are following.......
rlgion wouldnt kow what it was. Well HTE you tremain troubled by your sin and condemned by the law. Just remember it was your choice to forgoe grace not His.
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Just remember that.
Oh forgot to ask, you havnt stopped sinning have you?? See the law couldnt stop anyone from sinning nor could it save anyone. it only kills people thats all it could do and all it ever did. If you choose death over life thats your problem tha tno one can help you with. your on your own.
John 3:19 is crystal clear that the verdict is: People reject the light because they love the darkness.mjrhealth said:
So, yes we all have sin. Having sin has never been the issue. Loving or hating is everything. As Paul also confirms in Rom 7:15.
What you are ignoring from your example is the fact that in death there were two homes. There was a divide in Hades. Those who hated what is evil, yet had done evil were in Abrahams bosom. Nineveh was there. Many faithful Jews were there. Nobody on the other side of Hades wanted to repent of their sin. Salvation was Jesus bypassing AB only. Grace does not exist for anyone who does not hate what is evil / desire to obey His commandments.
The key ingredient with an OSAS belief is to grasp the saved person will not continue in sin unrepentant or be capable of the more grievous sins given their new nature. Arminians would argue less and agree more if OSAS believers were clearer on this. So we can discuss OSAS all day long but the reality is that we should all agree that if anyone of us are continuing in unrepentant sin mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor 6:9-13 or any of the OT moral laws, you are not en route to heaven no matter what you think you believe and know. Can you agree with that?
Apparently you have a very mathematical mind which in and of itself is not a problem. The problem lies with when you expect God to make sense mathematically. God is spirit means there is no mathematical equation. We who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. I'm sure there are many mathematicians who could come up with a formula that would eliminate God.KingJ said:
If you had Jesus indwelling in you, you would know, by the law we RECOGNIZE sin, and are able to correct it...if you do not recognize the law (the ten commandments) then you do not recognize sin, and can joyfully wallow in sin...and enjoy your blissful ignorance...as Paul said in Romans "do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid. and "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law".mjrhealth said:
All I can say HTE if being condemend by teh law is beter than being forginven by grace than i am sorry for you. Your choice not His, Its not about who can pick the right scripture whic is what goes on a lot around here, its about truth. Simple thing is, for those who are in Christ and who walk after the spirirt, there is no condemnation, now for those whom choose the law, condmenation is all tehy will ever have. It pleases the flesh, and keeps you from God, again its your choice not His. This can go on for ever, but it will not make you right,
You either belong to the law
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband
Which is where you are but shouldnt be
or
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Which is where you should be but are not. I cant help you if you dont want the truth. no one can.
If you love Christ than you will seek after Him and speak only of Him, if you love the Law than you will seek teh law and speak only of the law, for that is where your heart is.
Revelation comes form God and Him alone you will find it no where else.
You either belong to the law
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband
Which is where you are but shouldnt be
or
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Which is where you should be but are not. I cant help you if you dont want the truth. no one can.
If you love Christ than you will seek after Him and speak only of Him, if you love the Law than you will seek teh law and speak only of the law, for that is where your heart is.
Revelation comes form God and Him alone you will find it no where else.
Righteousness that comes by flesh or by grace, what is your goal. To have faith and believe?heretoeternity said:
Rom 3:19-22 NIV Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Gal 2:21 NIV I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Gal 3:5-7 NIV Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? 6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
KngJ
Hi lets lay it down, Gods plan, well the bits I know.
Start at the beginning
God created the angels, they where spirit, not flesh. When Lucifer fell from grace with his followers, he went from pure light to utter darkness. There is no way back for them, as the bible puts it, {“they left there first estate”.
Now man. God creates the world and all the planets etc, than man, but man He creates differently, he takes the dust of the earth and form a vessel into which He places our spirit and breathes in the breath of life. Now we are a living spirit in an earthly vessel, can you see where this is going.
Now the bible says,
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand
So do you really think God would start all this if He knew He could not complete it.
Again I ask, show me the flaw in Gods plan. The one that wont let him save mankind. It is foolish to believe that God is so ignorant…
Now lets get past Christs death and resurrection,
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Or as Paul puts it.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Christ oferrs us a way out, but many refuse it, thinking they can somehow stop them selves from sinning. I would like to know How.
Men become priest yet some end up rapists and adulters thinking somehow being a priest would stop all that,
Some look themselves in monasteries taking vows of silence, beating themselves with whips, wearing sackcloth for clothing, having no possessions, lying on cold beds, eating the minimum of food, all this to beat the flesh into submission, but its all show, ‘”look at me God look at what I did”. Gets them no where and they suffer for nothing, and here we have Christians doing the same, trying to put the flesh to death, and in so doing being a slave to the sin they are trying to stop. Yes the devil loves sin, it keeps men from God, keeps them in unbelief, and keeps them in bondage, ashamed to go to Christ so trying to cover there shame in there own righteousness. Wont happen, God is not blind.
God has not shown us the whole plan. there are some things he likes to keep to Himself, lest the enemy discover and tries to undo all His work.
Hi lets lay it down, Gods plan, well the bits I know.
Start at the beginning
God created the angels, they where spirit, not flesh. When Lucifer fell from grace with his followers, he went from pure light to utter darkness. There is no way back for them, as the bible puts it, {“they left there first estate”.
Now man. God creates the world and all the planets etc, than man, but man He creates differently, he takes the dust of the earth and form a vessel into which He places our spirit and breathes in the breath of life. Now we are a living spirit in an earthly vessel, can you see where this is going.
Now the bible says,
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand
So do you really think God would start all this if He knew He could not complete it.
Again I ask, show me the flaw in Gods plan. The one that wont let him save mankind. It is foolish to believe that God is so ignorant…
Now lets get past Christs death and resurrection,
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Or as Paul puts it.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Christ oferrs us a way out, but many refuse it, thinking they can somehow stop them selves from sinning. I would like to know How.
Men become priest yet some end up rapists and adulters thinking somehow being a priest would stop all that,
Some look themselves in monasteries taking vows of silence, beating themselves with whips, wearing sackcloth for clothing, having no possessions, lying on cold beds, eating the minimum of food, all this to beat the flesh into submission, but its all show, ‘”look at me God look at what I did”. Gets them no where and they suffer for nothing, and here we have Christians doing the same, trying to put the flesh to death, and in so doing being a slave to the sin they are trying to stop. Yes the devil loves sin, it keeps men from God, keeps them in unbelief, and keeps them in bondage, ashamed to go to Christ so trying to cover there shame in there own righteousness. Wont happen, God is not blind.
God has not shown us the whole plan. there are some things he likes to keep to Himself, lest the enemy discover and tries to undo all His work.
The angels being in a spiritual state first, meant their decision to rebel was sin at full measure. They fully grasped what they wanted and the consequences of what they were doing. They did not want to be with God. They wanted to be their own god. No submission, kindness, humility and love. Rather vanity and hatred. Confirmation of this is Jesus saying ''the devil has been sinning from the beginning''.mjrhealth said:
Now with humans God has taken a different approach. He gave us a weak flesh. Adam and Eve's achilles heel was not only the tree but also their flesh. Being in the flesh does however have an advantage. Namely, that it takes time to reach full measure on loving or hating sin. So God has given us time and space to exercise our will.
Everyone of us with a working brain are able to decide to follow or to not follow Jesus. Evidence of this being the simple fact that Jesus died for all mankind. Now deciding to follow Jesus IS NOT BEING LUCKY ENOUGH TO OBTAIN THE WINNING LOTTO TICKET OF SALVATION AT WALMART. To think this is what Christianity is all about is absolutely INSANE.
We decide to follow Jesus by being after His heart. We know people love Jesus because they HATE sin Rom 7:15. We know people hate Jesus because they LOVE sin John 3:19. He draws near to those who draw near to Him James 4:8. We open the door to our heart Rev 3:20 when we agree with what He taught and stood for. When we submit our life / our will to His Matt 16:24. He taught loving our enemy, turning the left cheek and honouring God above all. He did NOT teach, positive thinking and brainwashing yourself into believing the unseen is seen = eternal life.
Eternal life is a gift to those that actually love Him. Those that actually love Him obey His commandments. As Jesus says we are known by our fruits.
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