Love fulfills the law
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If you love God and love your neighbour then you are following the Ten commandments, and fulfilling the law!
The human race WAS love until satan entered the picture early on, then murder, and death and all kinds of sin followed....God's law provided the return to LOVE by keeping His commands...and if you keep the first four commands you show your love of God, and the last six you show your love of neighbour...quite simple really, you should be able to understand that MJRH....
The law is not love it coulds not be and could never be, Love does what love does becuase that is what it is, it is not love when one needss to obey a commandment it is do or die. Hav e you not read,
1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
But see, you have chosen teh Law over Grace, you have chosen condemnation and death over mercy and life, you say you love Christ yet you fight Him at every turn, you have rejected all He has done so you can show the world what you can do.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
or
1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
What did Jesus leave out , what was it that was flawed in God plan for salvation that you need to prove yourself worthy, what is it you think Jesus died for...??
You might be actually getting closer to the truth and it will make you free as Jesus said....
Ask forgiveness for your sins (sins are transgressions of God's law 1st John), then ask Jesus into your heart and life, and God's grace will forgive you, and you will of course have to repent from your sins...and by repenting you will be following God's law...that is God's plan of salvation...as Paul said "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law...and "do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid"....so repeant MJRH while you still have the chance, to complete the process...
Ask forgiveness for your sins (sins are transgressions of God's law 1st John), then ask Jesus into your heart and life, and God's grace will forgive you, and you will of course have to repent from your sins...and by repenting you will be following God's law...that is God's plan of salvation...as Paul said "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law...and "do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid"....so repeant MJRH while you still have the chance, to complete the process...
The issue is I have,
I am not the one that seems to have this huge problem with sin. how many times do you need Jesus to die for you, He did it once for all your sins. you are missing so much of what Christ did on taht day, and what happened after pentecost, nevermind how far and to what depth Gods grace abouds. But like so many you wont go to Him so you can have life, for if you did, you would not be a servant to teh law but the bride of Christ.
See this bit that was written to te hJews.
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
And one day when you give Jesus 5 min of your time to under stand teh rest of teh chapter you will realise what a great a gift He has given us.
Jesus died once for forgiveness of our sins..so do we keep sinning, as you advocate? Of course not, we repent and follow God's law if we are sincere...
But I guess you think there will be a separate section in the eternal city (Revelation) for defiant and arrogant "christians" such as yourself to inhabit, because you do not want to repent of your sins...because of this attitude Jesus died in vain, is what you are saying....
But I guess you think there will be a separate section in the eternal city (Revelation) for defiant and arrogant "christians" such as yourself to inhabit, because you do not want to repent of your sins...because of this attitude Jesus died in vain, is what you are saying....
We are all given teh same Spirit from God when we come to Christ, if you choose to ignore Him its no one fault but your own. Revelation only comes from God, you wont get it any where else. you chose the law over grace, that is your doing not His, you choose to be married to teh law instead of being the bride of Christ, that which you love the most is what you speak of the most, and all you speak of is the law.Your choosing not His.
There is no grace where there is teh law. or as Jesus put it.
Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
What is says is that those who have not tasted Grace prefer the law. read it.
You cannot hide your shame from God He can see through all our disguises.
When we are born again we are born of God, no longer of this world, are you telling us that God can sin...
MJR will you agree that one who is born again cannot continue in mortal sins / the severer side of the sins as described by Paul in 1 Cor 6:9-13.mjrhealth said:
OSAS and Arminians argue over this fact primarily. But both should agree that anyone in these mortal sins or any unrepentant sin for that matter, are not en route to heaven.
It is the attitide of many Christians holding to OSAS that puts all off OSAS. The suggestion that we can get away with anything as we are saved. But Paul makes it clear to all professing to be Christians that they can't.
I do believe in OSAS, so I am not entirely disagreeing with you. Just need to realize what exactly the argument from Arminians is. It is a valid one.
I will answer you in short time. Have other things to ponder off. But should I leave you for the moment with these question.
1. Is God plan for mans salvation flawed?? And if it is show me where.
2. Is it not enough that He who is perfect came and walked among men in a unholy , imperfect fleshy body, was ridiculed, despised and hated by those whom He came for, suffered humiliation, spat upon, hoisted up on a piece of wood, even though he despised the shame of it all, who " became sin", for us so that we would not be troubled by sin, who was seperated from our father because of all that he became so we would not be seperated from our father, who suffered death, went into hell so we would not need to, who than rose again so we could look upon Him and see that what is perfect and righteouss. Was hot all this enough for mankind that they somehow think they can do better than Him, was not the price paid by Him enough for Man??
Do you know tha teverything that was done at the fall of man has being undone by Christ, the only thing left is .
Death where is your sting', its His final victory.
It all is so simple, complicated by religion, mens wisdom and pride, a liitle shame thrown in by our flesh and a right many curveballs offerd by the devil.
1. Grievous sinAngelina said:
2. No. In the OT there was a divide in Hades. There were sinners on both sides of the divide. What separated them?
- Throughout the OT there were differing punishments for sin.
- Jesus mentions we all have sin with Matt 5:28, but then qualifies this statement with Matt 5:32. Many preach Matt 5:28 but ignore Matt 5:32. Such a terrible and blatant ommission.
- If we read the build up to 1 Cor 6:9-13 we see that Paul is trying to get us to judge properly. IE He hopes we grasp it is the harsher / more extreme cases of the sins mentioned.
- John 3:19 and Rom 7:15 both highlight ''hating and loving sin''. We can have sin but we can hate or love it. This is significant. Because when we add the fact that Jesus says we know someone by their fruits we can grasp / safely assume that one continuing in a mortal type sin is more sold out to a love of sin then one continuing in a venial sin.
A mortal sin shows that our love for what is evil is close to being full measure. Mortal sinners really need to thank God for allowing them to live another day. We can safely assume all sins warranting being stoned to death OT are mortal for starters.
As I understand it. The bosom of Abraham was a place of comfort for the O/T Jews [Luke 16:19 ~] and Jesus describes a great gulf fixed between the rich man and Lazarus. [26]. Jesus also describes Abraham being in the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 8:10, 11, 12...
All Jews? Even those stoned to death? Abraham qualified to be with God without being covered by the blood of Jesus?Angelina said:
I interpret Abrahams bosom / the better side of the divide / paradise as being a waiting place for all those en route to heaven. Nobody qualified to be in God's presence, but not all qualified to be in the fire of Hades.
Those who hated sin, repented and made it to AB. Nineveh would be there. So not just Jews.
The point is that we are all sinners. But having sin has never been the issue. If we believe having sin is ''the'' issue then we may as well be Calvinists. They believe we are all en route to hell and Jesus saves us from this. When the truth is that nobody is en route to hell. Those that love sin, choose hell. Since we can only judge by works, a working brain will discern that one in mortal sins loves sin more then one in venial sins. God did likewise in the OT, so our working brains are not far from the truth about a person's heart. But of course there are exceptions. Nobody can judge heart and mind like God Jer 17:10. But we can still judge Col 2:15.
I find 1 John 5:16 and Gen 15:16 very interesting on this subject.
1 John 5:16 = sin unto death and Gen 15:16, no death until sin is full measure. Both point to mortal sins.
Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
What He said
I have a friend if you met and spent time with would say he wont be going to heaven, yet He has already passed judgment and will be with the Lord, that He has being shown. we cannot judge people even by there works, there are many atheists and people from other religions taht do good works, proves nothing.
Jesus says we know someone by their fruits. Judge is to discern not condemn. I will never say a mortal sinner deserves hell, but I can say he is en route there.mjrhealth said:
I disagree with what you said about works. Anybody doing good works are after God's heart. Atheist, Bhuddist, Muslim it shows that they are giving in to the selflessness their God given working brain is capable of. For this their heart is changing, becoming after God's. It is not long before these people run into Jesus. Meeting Jesus is an inevitability for anyone after His heart. James 1:27 could not be clearer.
I do not for a secon believe believing some magical words we recite or convincing ourselves that we have faith that pleases God, makes us saved.
Works are evidence of our salvation. Not the church we attend, denomination we belong to or what we tell ourselves.
I will come back to you on that passage you quoted. It is interesting.
Please read Romans 4
Paradise is not in Hades but comes down in/with the New Jerusalem. Paradise is in the heavenlies...
I do not have any idea what you are talking about??? :huh: Are you Roman Catholic???
Be Blessed!
1. As did Moses. Both qualified to be met by God. As do we all. But living with God. Just think about it. If what you saying is true then what you are actually saying is that Jesus did not need to die for Abraham's sins.Angelina said:
2. Non sequitur to this discussion.
3. No. But they have this right
. I am not sure what is confusing. Are you saying God cannot discern the difference between giving a kid too much candy vs raping the kid?No offence to you Angelina. But I am truly worried about all those that can't grasp / don't teach that there are mortal and venial sins. Paul is clear that we must judge properly 1 Cor 6:1-9 and Jesus could not be clearer when He says ''we look at fruits''.
I am worried because it is the building blocks of ''well my mortal sin is not so bad because we all have sin''. Rom 2:6 could not be clearer. ''We will be rewarded according to what we did''.
If God had an adulterer stoned to death in the OT, we can be sure that God has no less of a fate envisioned for any adulterer in the NT that does not repent and change their ways. Mortal sinners are walking on thin ice.
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