Love

[Stranger]

Adam And Eve disobeyed, but does that mean it was impossible for them to be obedient? If Unfallen man can choose to be disobedient am I to reason that he can't choose to be obedient? Its like you're saying that God didn't want obedience from his creation, that God was asking for the impossible, because what I get from the warning God gave Adam is that God wanted obedience from him. Was God asking for the impossible, because I don't see anywhere in that warning about disobedience that he was saying but it's ok to be disobedient sometimes. Am I to understand that warning was meaningless, since as you are saying sin and death is part of God's plan.

When it comes to the subject of the elect I don't believe that has anything to do with Angles. The subject of the elect I believe is talking about humans being chosen from mankind. But those Angles who chose to follow Satan, what are you saying that they had the ability to choose but the other Angles that didn't follow him they didn't have the ability to choose. I don't think that's reasonable, plus all of God intelligent creatures I believe have free will. I don't think any of his intelligent creatures are programmed robots, but instead free moral agents having the ability of choice.

When it comes to the subject of what would have happened to Eve , I honestly don't know. Adam didn't call upon God when this happened. I know God would have handled it in a loving way within his standards of Justice. I know that you say Adam knew God and the way he handled the situation is the way God would have handled it, because Adam was trying to save Eve. I understand what you believe, I just disagree with it. I honestly don't believe God would ignore his own laws or encourage anyone to ignore his laws, such as the way Adam did.

I know that God knew when he gave the Mosaic law they couldn't obey it perfectly, which is why God gave them animal sacrifices and priests and a High Priest (Aaron) so that when they made a mistake and were repentant, went to the priests with the appropriate animal sacrifices God would forgive and the individual and Nation would have remained faithful to God. But God was dealing with imperfect people at this time. As long as an individual followed the instructions of the Mosaic law as best they could they were considered faithful. You see what I mean by following instructions, that's important to God, but Adam didn't follow his instructions. God wanted obedience concerning the forbidden fruit. You said Adam did what God would have done. Which means according to you those instructions about being obedient concerning the forbidden fruit were meaningless, even though God instructions were not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't think so. And Just as there have been Angels, who were created perfect and remained perfect because they chose not to be unfaithful shows Adam and Eve had the same ability to choose to be faithful. The fact that they failed doesn't mean God created Adam and therefore mankind in such a way that it would be impossible for another sinless (Unfallen, perfect) man to live a life without sin, living a life of always being obedient, never disobedient always faithful and living by the Mosaic law perfectly. That man was Jesus Christ, God's only Begotten Son. He came to and proved that a sinless Unfallen perfect man can remain that way even though he was tempted in every way that we are right up to death. He was the appropriate ransom sacrifice, because what was lost was a perfect man and a perfect human society within the Lions of Adam. Jesus Christ ransom sacrifice buys back what Adam in his disobedience lost.
Jesus who was the last Adam, meaning he was a perfect man like Adam had the potential for fathering a perfect human race. Instead, however, he allowed God's enimies to put him to death so that he could adopt Adam's sinful descendents and make it possible for those exercising in him to receive everlasting life. The scriptures explains: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Jesus Christ, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." One day this planet will be filled with a perfect human society with nobody growing old, having no sickness, no wars. Jesus Christ and those who are resurrected to heaven with him will rule over mankind from heaven.

The warning God gave to Adam was not meaningless because it was true. And death was the result of disobedience. This shows you that a perfect creature created by God with a will could disobey and fall away from God. And if the possibility existed for Adam and Eve, it would equally have existed for all their children. What then? Do you think when Adam and Eve had produced children, which they would have, and they too would have been perfect, that none would ever disobey God? And if Adam and Eve had not fallen that day, what then? The possibility was always there for them to fall another day. And, as I have said before in another thread, if Adam and Eve were sinless and perfect, but fell, what guarantee do you have that you will not sin against God in Heaven? You don't. Yes, sin and death were very much part of the plan of God. Neither the Garden of Eden nor the Law were the end of what God is doing. They were simply a means working towards the end.

Concerning the Angels and their being elect, here is another Scripture you can disbelieve. (1 Tim. 5:21) "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things...." No doubt the angels had a will. Because some willed to follow satan. The elect of the Angels are just like the elect of mankind. Chosen by God and therefore kept by God. For man it involved a plan of salvation that in the end would raise him to a higher order than the angels. For the Angels it involved insuring that they do not follow satan. You are correct in saying none of God's creatures are robots. But, here again, what guarantee do you have that we will not choose to sin in Heaven. Both the Angels and Man were sinless when they disobeyed?

Concerning Eve, of course God would not ignore His own laws. No where have I indicated that. You are reading that into what I say. But I am not saying that. All laws of God are a reflection of God Himself. And all laws of God reveal the inability of the creature to measure up to the Creator. It doesn't matter if that creature is sinless or sinful, the law reveals their weakness. You say God would have acted toward Eve in a loving and just way but you don't know what He would have done. That's a cop out answer. You know and can offer a suggestion. You just don't want to. Because the answer reveals a problem with your belief.

Concerning Christ coming as the Last Adam, you indicate that is proof that a man could be obedient to God. You forget there is a slight difference there. Jesus happened to be also God the Son. This is every indication that if God had destroyed Adam and Eve, as traitors as you like to say, and had made another pair, they too would eventually go the same way. In other words, why not just make another pair instead of going through this history of suffering and pain and the horrible death of Jesus Christ? You see? This Sacrifice of Christ was not a response to Adams sin. It was always part of God's plan as (1 Peter 1:18-20) says.

And, we are not adopted into the family of God. We are born. Something which was impossible for Adam and Eve in the Garden.

Stranger

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The warning God gave to Adam was not meaningless because it was true. And death was the result of disobedience. This shows you that a perfect creature created by God with a will could disobey and fall away from God. And if the possibility existed for Adam and Eve, it would equally have existed for all their children. What then? Do you think when Adam and Eve had produced children, which they would have, and they too would have been perfect, that none would ever disobey God? And if Adam and Eve had not fallen that day, what then? The possibility was always there for them to fall another day. And, as I have said before in another thread, if Adam and Eve were sinless and perfect, but fell, what guarantee do you have that you will not sin against God in Heaven? You don't. Yes, sin and death were very much part of the plan of God. Neither the Garden of Eden nor the Law were the end of what God is doing. They were simply a means working towards the end.

Concerning the Angels and their being elect, here is another Scripture you can disbelieve. (1 Tim. 5:21) "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things...." No doubt the angels had a will. Because some willed to follow satan. The elect of the Angels are just like the elect of mankind. Chosen by God and therefore kept by God. For man it involved a plan of salvation that in the end would raise him to a higher order than the angels. For the Angels it involved insuring that they do not follow satan. You are correct in saying none of God's creatures are robots. But, here again, what guarantee do you have that we will not choose to sin in Heaven. Both the Angels and Man were sinless when they disobeyed?

Concerning Eve, of course God would not ignore His own laws. No where have I indicated that. You are reading that into what I say. But I am not saying that. All laws of God are a reflection of God Himself. And all laws of God reveal the inability of the creature to measure up to the Creator. It doesn't matter if that creature is sinless or sinful, the law reveals their weakness. You say God would have acted toward Eve in a loving and just way but you don't know what He would have done. That's a cop out answer. You know and can offer a suggestion. You just don't want to. Because the answer reveals a problem with your belief.

Concerning Christ coming as the Last Adam, you indicate that is proof that a man could be obedient to God. You forget there is a slight difference there. Jesus happened to be also God the Son. This is every indication that if God had destroyed Adam and Eve, as traitors as you like to say, and had made another pair, they too would eventually go the same way. In other words, why not just make another pair instead of going through this history of suffering and pain and the horrible death of Jesus Christ? You see? This Sacrifice of Christ was not a response to Adams sin. It was always part of God's plan as (1 Peter 1:18-20) says.

And, we are not adopted into the family of God. We are born. Something which was impossible for Adam and Eve in the Garden.

Stranger

When it comes to those who are in heaven with Jesus (human bought from mankind) the scripture says they will get a resurrection like his, Jesus at his resurrection was resurrected with immotality and inherited incorruption, so those who will be in heaven with Jesus like you said Will be superior to the Angels, including the "Elect Angels." Since those bought from mankind have immortality and incorruption they can neither be destroyed or perish and death has no power over them they will have a endless indestructible life. So those in Heaven are safe.The "Elect Angels" don't have immortality nor inherit incorruption.

Concerning the "Elect Angels" you said because they are called the "Elect Angels"God kept them safe and that's why they didn't fall away, but you said they had free will so while it's probably true that God kept them safe because he saw by the choices they were making to be faithful and not be disobedient God kept them safe, while Satan and the Angels that followed him made the choice of being disobedient so they fell away.Free will I believe will always be in the decision making process when it comes to who gets eternal life or not. Will the "Elect Angels" one day choose to be disobedient? Well, they still have free will, so I guess it's possible but because they have remained faithful all this time that suggests they will remain faithful, they will remain obedient.

It's true that if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten of the forbidden fruit they could have been disobedient further down the road. It's also true that if they had children while still in thier sinless state, it's possible some of their children could choose to be disobedient. There is something you said: "and all the laws of God reveal the inability of the creature to measure up to the Creator. It doesn't matter if that creature is sinless or sinful, the law reveals the weakness." I know you said before that because Adam and Eve sinned, as did Satan and those Angels who followed him, that proves that God intelligent creatures heavenly or earthly can't follow God's law perfectly, but some, the Elect Angels are following and still are following God's law perfectly. They are measuring up to God law perfectly. What I'm saying is that just because Adam and Eve and Satan and the Angels that followed him chose to be disobedient doesn't mean all sinless or perfect humans will follow the same course. Right now man is in a sinful state but during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ, which will start after Armageddon, during this time there will be resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous and Jesus Christ will take mankind back towards perfection, so that at the end of the 1000 year reign mankind will be perfect again, sinless. At the end of the 1000 year reign Satan and his demons will be set free from the Abyss, which is where they were during the 1000 year reign. They are being used for the last test, to see who among God perfect society will be faithful to God. The ones born in sin who now are sinless and perfect will get the same chance as Adam and Eve did.

 

[Stranger]

When it comes to those who are in heaven with Jesus (human bought from mankind) the scripture says they will get a resurrection like his, Jesus at his resurrection was resurrected with immotality and inherited incorruption, so those who will be in heaven with Jesus like you said Will be superior to the Angels, including the "Elect Angels." Since those bought from mankind have immortality and incorruption they can neither be destroyed or perish and death has no power over them they will have a endless indestructible life. So those in Heaven are safe.The "Elect Angels" don't have immortality nor inherit incorruption.

Concerning the "Elect Angels" you said because they are called the "Elect Angels"God kept them safe and that's why they didn't fall away, but you said they had free will so while it's probably true that God kept them safe because he saw by the choices they were making to be faithful and not be disobedient God kept them safe, while Satan and the Angels that followed him made the choice of being disobedient so they fell away.Free will I believe will always be in the decision making process when it comes to who gets eternal life or not. Will the "Elect Angels" one day choose to be disobedient? Well, they still have free will, so I guess it's possible but because they have remained faithful all this time that suggests they will remain faithful, they will remain obedient.

It's true that if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten of the forbidden fruit they could have been disobedient further down the road. It's also true that if they had children while still in thier sinless state, it's possible some of their children could choose to be disobedient. There is something you said: "and all the laws of God reveal the inability of the creature to measure up to the Creator. It doesn't matter if that creature is sinless or sinful, the law reveals the weakness." I know you said before that because Adam and Eve sinned, as did Satan and those Angels who followed him, that proves that God intelligent creatures heavenly or earthly can't follow God's law perfectly, but some, the Elect Angels are following and still are following God's law perfectly. They are measuring up to God law perfectly. What I'm saying is that just because Adam and Eve and Satan and the Angels that followed him chose to be disobedient doesn't mean all sinless or perfect humans will follow the same course. Right now man is in a sinful state but during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ, which will start after Armageddon, during this time there will be resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous and Jesus Christ will take mankind back towards perfection, so that at the end of the 1000 year reign mankind will be perfect again, sinless. At the end of the 1000 year reign Satan and his demons will be set free from the Abyss, which is where they were during the 1000 year reign. They are being used for the last test, to see who among God perfect society will be faithful to God. The ones born in sin who now are sinless and perfect will get the same chance as Adam and Eve did.

Adam and Eve had immortality until they sinned. So did Lucifer. What now?

So, you believe now that there are elect angels as well as men. Good to know. No, I said the angels had a will. I didn't say 'free will'. And, seeing ahead by choices they make, doesn't make them elect. They are elect because God made them so and declared them so. Not for something they would do in the future. You do not understand 'election'. You simply want to conform it to your 'obey' doctrine. The elect angels did not fall because they were elect. And what suggests they will remain faithful, is that they are elect.

The elect angels follow God because they are the elect angels. The elect angels are not under any law to measure up to that we know of. Well, Adam and Eve and lucifer and some angels proved that perfect sinless creatures will sin against God. How many do you have to show that man will not sin against God? Only One, Jesus Christ. Who was not just man but the God/Man.

In your last sentence you said, "The ones born in sin who now are sinless and perfect will get the same chance as Adam and Eve did." Who are you talking about?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam and Eve had immortality until they sinned.

so you say anyway

 

[mjrhealth]

so you say anyway

He is actually correct

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Untill they sinned there was no death.

 

[mjrhealth]

you can believe that if you like; i suspect that spiritual death is what matters there

ye many do just that, believe what they like...

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Adam and Eve had immortality until they sinned. So did Lucifer. What now?

So, you believe now that there are elect angels as well as men. Good to know. No, I said the angels had a will. I didn't say 'free will'. And, seeing ahead by choices they make, doesn't make them elect. They are elect because God made them so and declared them so. Not for something they would do in the future. You do not understand 'election'. You simply want to conform it to your 'obey' doctrine. The elect angels did not fall because they were elect. And what suggests they will remain faithful, is that they are elect.

The elect angels follow God because they are the elect angels. The elect angels are not under any law to measure up to that we know of. Well, Adam and Eve and lucifer and some angels proved that perfect sinless creatures will sin against God. How many do you have to show that man will not sin against God? Only One, Jesus Christ. Who was not just man but the God/Man.

In your last sentence you said, "The ones born in sin who now are sinless and perfect will get the same chance as Adam and Eve did." Who are you talking about?

Stranger

I found nowhere in the scripture or in any

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I found nowhere in the scripture or in any

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

By

Adam and Eve had immortality until they sinned. So did Lucifer. What now?

So, you believe now that there are elect angels as well as men. Good to know. No, I said the angels had a will. I didn't say 'free will'. And, seeing ahead by choices they make, doesn't make them elect. They are elect because God made them so and declared them so. Not for something they would do in the future. You do not understand 'election'. You simply want to conform it to your 'obey' doctrine. The elect angels did not fall because they were elect. And what suggests they will remain faithful, is that they are elect.

The elect angels follow God because they are the elect angels. The elect angels are not under any law to measure up to that we know of. Well, Adam and Eve and lucifer and some angels proved that perfect sinless creatures will sin against God. How many do you have to show that man will not sin against God? Only One, Jesus Christ. Who was not just man but the God/Man.

In your last sentence you said, "The ones born in sin who now are sinless and perfect will get the same chance as Adam and Eve did." Who are you talking about?

Stranger

I disagree with you saying Adam and Eve and Satan had immortality until they sinned. I found that eternal life and Immortality not the same thing. Adam and Eve did die and they still are dead.

When it comes to the Elect Angels I wasn't agreeing with how you believe in regards these Angels or humans.

I look up the phrase Elect Angels and many ministers, said in regards to these Angels that their was a rebellion and choices were made among the Angels. Some followed Satan, but many others chose not to rebell. Now it's true that these ministers say God forknew this, which my understanding what they mean by that is before God began to create he knew these things would happen and he knew which individual Angels would be obedient and which would not. (This something I don't agree with.) Anyway these ministers were saying that because these Angels chose to be faithful to God they are forever his. Which is why they say they are called Elect Angels, and that they would never fall into sin. Remember that I am not agreeing with any of this, because I believe differently about the Elect of men. The only reason I said what these ministers said about the Elect Angels is you said Free Will or any future choices they made had nothing to do with them being called Elect Angels, but many ministers disagree with you.

Now here is what I believe concerning the Elect of men. That God forknew a class of people, but let free will determine which individuals would belong to that class. Now when the New Testament scriptures we're first written the apostles and disciples of Jesus could then include themselves in that class as long as they were faithful till death. You see as I said I honestly don't agree with anyone who does away with free will, I honestly don't believe God will interfere with free will. God gave us free will for a reason. The choices we make, how we live our lives show whether we love him or not.

When it comes to that last sentence you are asking me about, remember I believe differently than you. I believe during the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ that God through Jesus Christ will be taking us back towards perfection by directing his Son to fully apply the ransom sacrifice on every faithful and obedient man and woman. By that means, all sin will be removed and mankind Will be raised to perfection, meaning at the end of the thousand year reign every human on Earth at that time will be perfect just as Adam and Eve were perfect. Then there will be a last test when Satan and his demons are loosed from the Abyss which is where they were during the thousand year reign. In other words these perfect humans will be tested in a perfect state to see if they will remain faithful. The scripture shows that some of perfect humans will be unfaithful at this time and this test only last a short time, then those who were unfaithful along with Satan and his demons are thrown into the lake of fire, forever destroyed out of existence, while the faithful will always be with God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

As for Adam, just because HE screwed up doesnt mean He loved God any less, do you lobe God less because you screw up???

All I'm saying is that he didn't love God as he should have. If his love had continued to progress and grow as it should have I think that instead of Adam focusing on his love for Eve as he did, instead he would have called upon Jehovah God first before making any decisions. Jehovah God was Adam head, don't you think that someone who loves God, after some stranger (Satan) had pretty much attacked his God that Jehovah God might have wanted to weigh in on this matter.

 

[pia]

instead he would have called upon Jehovah God

But had not God already made their relationship clear ?.....:" For this reason a man shall leave his Fathers house."....

 

[mjrhealth]

All I'm saying is that he didn't love God as he should have

And you know that how ???? We are human, our love is not perfect as Gods love. Still looking for someone to blame.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But had not God already made their relationship clear ?.....:" For this reason a man shall leave his Fathers house."....

Meaning what?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And you know that how ???? We are human, our love is not perfect as Gods love. Still looking for someone to blame.

What I know is, no matter how people reason out what they believe no one has convinced me why God warned Adam about the consequences of disobedience when some of the texts I have read say in this post said sin and death was part of God's plan, or it was the will of God for sin and death to exist. What I know is that God is Holy , meaning Jehovah God is clean,pure, and separate from all sinfulness (Isaiah 6: 3, Isaiah 59:2). Think of that there are those who honestly believe that sinfulness which God keeps separate from because of his Holiness, they believe sin was part of God's plan, that it was Gods will. Sin and death has caused so much disorder in this world and people want me to believe that this disorder was what God wanted that it was his will for such disorder to exist that it was his plan before he began to create. James tells us that such disorder doesn't originate from God heavenly presence but are "earthly, animal, demonic" in source (James 3:14-18).

 

[mjrhealth]

What I know is, no matter how people reason out what they believe no one has convinced me why God warned Adam about the consequences of disobedience when some of the texts I have read say in this post said sin and death was part of God's plan, or it was the will of God for sin and death to exist. What I know is that God is Holy , meaning Jehovah God is clean,pure, and separate from all sinfulness (Isaiah 6: 3, Isaiah 59:2). Think of that there are those who honestly believe that sinfulness which God keeps separate from because of his Holiness, they believe sin was part of God's plan, that it was Gods will. Sin and death has caused so much disorder in this world and people want me to believe that this disorder was what God wanted that it was his will for such disorder to exist that it was his plan before he began to create. James tells us that such disorder doesn't originate from God heavenly presence but are "earthly, animal, demonic" in source (James 3:14-18).

I think you are trying to find someone to blame, to think sin would be a part of Gods plane is foolishness. God certainly didnt start this up to cause men to suffer, though He knowingly did start all this know full well teh path we would take, when He gave us free will. So instead of looking for blame, just accept the fact He has given you a way out, and have a life like Christ offered us all. It is your choice, do it His way or yours, that is free will. Next time you see someone on TV that has mollested a child and your first though it. kill the so and so, just remember God gave you the free will to condemn that man or forgive Him, bit like teh women rescued by Jesus with all the religious pharisees chasing Her, He had every right to stone he by the law, but He chose forgivenes. we have that option.

 

[Stranger]

By


I disagree with you saying Adam and Eve and Satan had immortality until they sinned. I found that eternal life and Immortality not the same thing. Adam and Eve did die and they still are dead.

When it comes to the Elect Angels I wasn't agreeing with how you believe in regards these Angels or humans.

I look up the phrase Elect Angels and many ministers, said in regards to these Angels that their was a rebellion and choices were made among the Angels. Some followed Satan, but many others chose not to rebell. Now it's true that these ministers say God forknew this, which my understanding what they mean by that is before God began to create he knew these things would happen and he knew which individual Angels would be obedient and which would not. (This something I don't agree with.) Anyway these ministers were saying that because these Angels chose to be faithful to God they are forever his. Which is why they say they are called Elect Angels, and that they would never fall into sin. Remember that I am not agreeing with any of this, because I believe differently about the Elect of men. The only reason I said what these ministers said about the Elect Angels is you said Free Will or any future choices they made had nothing to do with them being called Elect Angels, but many ministers disagree with you.

Now here is what I believe concerning the Elect of men. That God forknew a class of people, but let free will determine which individuals would belong to that class. Now when the New Testament scriptures we're first written the apostles and disciples of Jesus could then include themselves in that class as long as they were faithful till death. You see as I said I honestly don't agree with anyone who does away with free will, I honestly don't believe God will interfere with free will. God gave us free will for a reason. The choices we make, how we live our lives show whether we love him or not.

When it comes to that last sentence you are asking me about, remember I believe differently than you. I believe during the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ that God through Jesus Christ will be taking us back towards perfection by directing his Son to fully apply the ransom sacrifice on every faithful and obedient man and woman. By that means, all sin will be removed and mankind Will be raised to perfection, meaning at the end of the thousand year reign every human on Earth at that time will be perfect just as Adam and Eve were perfect. Then there will be a last test when Satan and his demons are loosed from the Abyss which is where they were during the thousand year reign. In other words these perfect humans will be tested in a perfect state to see if they will remain faithful. The scripture shows that some of perfect humans will be unfaithful at this time and this test only last a short time, then those who were unfaithful along with Satan and his demons are thrown into the lake of fire, forever destroyed out of existence, while the faithful will always be with God.

If Adam and Eve were not immortal prior to the fall, what would have killed them?

Well, at least you agree there are 'elect angels' which you didn't at the start.

Indeed, you believe differently than I. Your problem is seen in your statement, 'Jesus Christ will be taking us back towards perfection...' We don't go back. We go forward. The Garden, the Fall, the Law, the Cross, the Resurrection, all are a means to an end. They themselves are not the end.

Stranger

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I think you are trying to find someone to blame, to think sin would be a part of Gods plane is foolishness. God certainly didnt start this up to cause men to suffer, though He knowingly did start all this know full well teh path we would take, when He gave us free will. So instead of looking for blame, just accept the fact He has given you a way out, and have a life like Christ offered us all. It is your choice, do it His way or yours, that is free will. Next time you see someone on TV that has mollested a child and your first though it. kill the so and so, just remember God gave you the free will to condemn that man or forgive Him, bit like teh women rescued by Jesus with all the religious pharisees chasing Her, He had every right to stone he by the law, but He chose forgivenes. we have that option.

Hey I'm not trying to blame anyone I'm just saying these who been texting me trying to get me to believe God's plan including sin and death isn't convincing me that it's true. If you believe I'm trying to blame anyone just because they don't convince me and I give them the explanation why,go ahead believe that.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Stranger said: If Adam and Eve were not immortal prior to the fall, what would have killed them?

You do know that if you say Adam and Eve are immortal that means they can't be killed. I'm not saying Adam and Eve were immortal you are. Adam and Eve were mortal not immortal. Immortal means exempt from death or deathlessness. So like I said Adam and Eve didn't have immortality at any time. They have always been mortal.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If Adam and Eve were not immortal prior to the fall, what would have killed them?

Do you honestly believe that Adam or Eve couldn't drown if they tried to breathe water like a fish, or if they jumped off a cliff that is as high as a 40 story building they wouldn't die when they hit bottom. Like I said before I Believe that eternal life and Immortality are not the same thing. The Bible shows that those humans bought from mankind by the ransom sacrifice will get a resurrection like his, when Jesus was resurrected he was given immortality and he inherited incorruption,so those who go to heaven will be given immortality and inherit incorruption. These are the only humans in scripture that becomes immortal spiritual creatures. I have found nowhere else in scripture that any human was an immortal human. Not even Jesus was an immortal human when he was on Earth before he was put to death.

 

[Stranger]

Stranger said: If Adam and Eve were not immortal prior to the fall, what would have killed them?

You do know that if you say Adam and Eve are immortal that means they can't be killed. I'm not saying Adam and Eve were immortal you are. Adam and Eve were mortal not immortal. Immortal means exempt from death or deathlessness. So like I said Adam and Eve didn't have immortality at any time. They have always been mortal.

Yes, I know. But you are saying they were not immortal. So, what could have killed them.

I am saying they were immortal prior to the fall.

So before the fall, what could have killed Adam and Eve.

Stranger